quote:

Cross, IBT, and Myself--All in agreement! NonCon, Solid, Solid! My Winchesters only hold 3 down! So that's my load out--don't care what we are going to shoot from rabbits to Buffalo! That'll do! Jim, that rifle holds way too many cartridges! How are you ever going to learn how to reload that rifle quickly when it holds that many? Did I read that right? I sometimes don't RTB. I am going to read the bottom of my NonCon page again, see what the issue is!

M

Naw not to many cartridges…If I had used the fatter RUM case rather than the suave Ruger Basic case it'd only hold four down! Plus I only have to top off with two rounds and I’ve equaled a full double load from your M70!

Heck maybe I’ll have a 50 B&M built using an intermediate length M98 military action and an extended depth magazine. Then I'll have the action’s stripper slip slot and my Mauser stripper clips modified to handle the RUM rim diameter and a full magazine dump. Then while you're thumbing single rounds into your M70 I'll just slip a stripper clip in and in one nice smooth motion fill the entire magazine at once! Yep, just might have to do that.

JWP475

What you are looking for starts here;

http://forums.accuratereloadin...43/m/2861098911/p/85

Page 85.


Then again here on Page 90

http://forums.accuratereloadin...43/m/2861098911/p/90

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Whew, out for a day or so, and lot's of catching up to do! Hi guys! I sincerely hope the weekend was a great Christmas weekend for you! We had Snow here in SC yesterday, and we all played in the snow all day! We don't get much of that, so we took advantage of it!

Starting where I left off.

Paul

How many .620s do you want? Yes, I was going to do so just as soon as I received and Sam and I approve the new .457s and .474s that are on the way this week in brass and Nitro band form. But right now you are shooting an OK, correct? No issues with those at all! Feeding, think they will feed in a OK? 67% meplat, Winchesters gobble them up, except for 1 rifle I have!

Michael

Hey Michael,

Glad you enjoyed the snow - we got 32" of it here from Sunday into Monday. I had planned to take the day off (long in advance of the weather) but had to play "Bus Driver" for my associates. UGH! I keep telling them get winter tires! Of course it helps to have a Hummer with locking front and rear diffs AND real winter tires on it. Played with my daughter and Mastiffs in the snow then spent the rest of the day clearing my own then my neighbors driveway and walks.

Back to your question:
I'll take 100 - I don't think there will be a problem feeding in my AHR-built, GMA action 600OK as it eats everything else I have fed it regardless of profile.

If there is a feeding problem, I should have my V-C built 600NE double in a month or so. No feeding problems there, I am sure.

Brass or copper - what do you think?

CCMDoc

Quickly, let's get brass ones first! I will make a plan and talk to Dan in the morning.

M

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
CCMDoc

Quickly, let's get brass ones first! I will make a plan and talk to Dan in the morning.

M

Sounds excellent to me!

Thanks!

Still here and still reading.
When I get dug out of the yearend pileup of procrastination,
my next shooting range work will be with the .458 B&M, and down the road the .500/.338 Lapua Magnum, AKA "490 Lapua," my latest and lastest wildcat.
NonCons: Yes!
Thanks for the pioneering work at Myrtle Beach Institute of Ballistics, Doc M.

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
Naw not to many cartridges…If I had used the fatter RUM case rather than the suave Ruger Basic case it'd only hold four down! Plus I only have to top off with two rounds and I’ve equaled a full double load from your M70!

Heck maybe I’ll have a 50 B&M built using an intermediate length M98 military action and an extended depth magazine. Then I'll have the action’s stripper slip slot and my Mauser stripper clips modified to handle the RUM rim diameter and a full magazine dump. Then while you're thumbing single rounds into your M70 I'll just slip a stripper clip in and in one nice smooth motion fill the entire magazine at once! Yep, just might have to do that.

Jim

Maybe you should be looking at the 50 B&M SA with a 20 rd magazine??? HEH!

Speaking of your 50 MDM, I had a fellow this week that is doing something with the Ruger Basic, 8mm and on and on, 416 and 458. I told him about the 50 MDM, and he said that won't work! That head space off the extractor was "Way over the Edge" and Hornady would not approve that. HOrnady Approval? Over the Edge? Hmmmm? Maybe I should rethink those 1000s of rounds I have shot that were 110%, Over the Edge, and Hornady won't approve that?? OK--Not sure I needed Hornady Approval! HEH HEH HEH! Oh Well! And don't ask--Cause I don't know!


RIPPER!!!!!!

Good to see you, figured you were very busy trying to catch up, so I have not bugged you, but good to know you still have my back!

As you see we have entered into new arenas here! Have EXTREMELY excellent NonCons and solids on hand, for both 458 B&M and your new .500! Big Hammer-Slammers!

Have 1:10 twist barrels for the new 475 B&M now and rifles in the works! Still a little ways out yet, as fired cases and such must be sent to Hornady (Not For Approval of Course) but for dies! HEH. North Fork will be cutting new bullets, made to order for both 475 B&M and The Super Short Version--like we did for the .500s! With these and the new CEBs that I will do, this may just breath some life into .474 caliber here at MBIB! You know we have been very doubtful of .474s for a very long time now--still not real sure about them?

I am going to work on some things this week that might help our thread some, which has grown into a beast! First I am going to do a spreadsheet on each caliber with all the soft points, expanding bullets, and NonCons on it with viable terminal info included. This won't be too difficult as all I will need to do is transfer info from my data I already keep, into something easy to reference to. Will also add this data to the B&M Site, probably under the appropriate terminals for that caliber, in pdf downloadable format as well. I will try and think of a way to tie this to the photos in the meantime? A photo of the test is important as one can see why, what, how, that the data and numbers don't show you! Try to figure out something on that.

M

I have never liked "PayPal". Now I know why!

I was trying to set up a "paypal" account for the B&M Website for the North Fork and Cutting Edge bullets so it would be easy to use credit cards to place an order. This is what I got back from them today!

quote:

Hello Michael,

We are hereby notifying you that, after a recent review of your account
activity, it has been determined that you are in violation of PayPal's
Acceptable Use Policy regarding your sales of Winchester M70 500 MDM and
other like items, on http://b-mriflesandcartridges.com. Therefore, your
account has been permanently limited.

You will need to remove all references to PayPal from your website(s)
and/or auction(s). This includes not only removing PayPal as a payment
option, but also the PayPal logo and/or shopping cart.

The PayPal User Agreement states that PayPal, at its sole discretion,
reserves the right to limit an account for any violation of the User
Agreement, including the Acceptable Use Policy. Under the Acceptable Use
Policy, PayPal may not be used to send or receive payments for firearms,
firearm parts or accessories, ammunition, weapons or knives.

I told them to take their account and kiss my

Michael

Good for you Michael,

I hated Pay Pal the first time I tried to use it and now I am very happy I've never used it again.

Sam

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Good for you Michael,

I hated Pay Pal the first time I tried to use it and now I am very happy I've never used it again.

Sam

Me too! I let it lapse, never messed with it. Then Momma said just set that up for the bullets, so here we are. I will try and find other ways, there are lot's of companies out there that will handle that. But how to integrate it into the website, I don't know? But will sort that out.

Received a run of Nitro .474 caliber Brass CEB BBW #13 Solids today!!!!!!!! New space between the bands, looks good, crimp groove at the top! Nice. Will take some photos later.

Michael

Operate like the Mob. Lucky you got out before they started robbing your account at random. NEVER do biz with Pay-Bay.

PM on the e-commerce function.

PayPal is owned by EBay…and EBay is extremely anti-firearms everything.

My PayPal account is tied to my EBay account and I can’t close either one because my EBay isn’t at zero. EBay owes me $2.14 and I can’t get a physical reimbursement from them so I can’t close my EBay account therefore my PayPal account can’t be closed. High selling fees and they do not protect you as a seller.

One of the firearms selling sites was trying to set up something similar to PayPal but targeted to “guns friendly” but no idea if it ever got off the ground.

quote:

Maybe you should be looking at the 50 B&M SA with a 20 rd magazine??? HEH!

Speaking of your 50 MDM, I had a fellow this week that is doing something with the Ruger Basic, 8mm and on and on, 416 and 458. I told him about the 50 MDM, and he said that won't work! That head space off the extractor was "Way over the Edge" and Hornady would not approve that. HOrnady Approval? Over the Edge? Hmmmm? Maybe I should rethink those 1000s of rounds I have shot that were 110%, Over the Edge, and Hornady won't approve that?? OK--Not sure I needed Hornady Approval! HEH HEH HEH! Oh Well! And don't ask--Cause I don't know!

A 50 B&M SA with 20 round magazine most definitely would be fun for hunting porkers in overrun areas. But hey, a 5-round magazine vis-à-vis 3-round magazine isn’t much unless you need the extra two rounds very quickly…plus the slight extra weight it gives is between the hands so it isn’t noticeable in handling.

Hornady approval? I don’t need no Hornady approval! I don’t intend to submit to Hornady for approval!! And everybody just needs to get over head spacing off the extractor!!! Just another myth busted!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

Maybe you should be looking at the 50 B&M SA with a 20 rd magazine??? HEH!

Speaking of your 50 MDM, I had a fellow this week that is doing something with the Ruger Basic, 8mm and on and on, 416 and 458. I told him about the 50 MDM, and he said that won't work! That head space off the extractor was "Way over the Edge" and Hornady would not approve that. HOrnady Approval? Over the Edge? Hmmmm? Maybe I should rethink those 1000s of rounds I have shot that were 110%, Over the Edge, and Hornady won't approve that?? OK--Not sure I needed Hornady Approval! HEH HEH HEH! Oh Well! And don't ask--Cause I don't know!

Hornady approval? I don’t need no Hornady approval! I don’t intend to submit to Hornady for approval!! And everybody just needs to get over head spacing off the extractor!!! Just another myth busted!!!!

Jim

Oh yes, another "MYTH" busted big time--

Hey, I can't imagine what this chap was getting on about?

Michael

quote:

I had a fellow this week that is doing something

I should post the e-mail I get from these goofballs everyday. "I need this ..." or "I'm sending payment for ..." Thinking about charging for the e-mail rather than product, I'd make more money responding to BS.

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:

quote:

I had a fellow this week that is doing something

I should post the e-mail I get from these goofballs everyday. "I need this ..." or "I'm sending payment for ..." Thinking about charging for the e-mail rather than product, I'd make more money responding to BS.

AMEN BROTHER! I don't know how anyone can possibly run a gun shop! Same story, but the problem is about every 5 minutes there is a new one that walks in!

I have a little page on the B&M Website that explains how I feel about some of these things, geared heavy to prices--Called A Special Note From Michael! Worth a read! Good thing I don't have to make a living doing this!

M

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

Maybe you should be looking at the 50 B&M SA with a 20 rd magazine??? HEH!

Speaking of your 50 MDM, I had a fellow this week that is doing something with the Ruger Basic, 8mm and on and on, 416 and 458. I told him about the 50 MDM, and he said that won't work! That head space off the extractor was "Way over the Edge" and Hornady would not approve that. HOrnady Approval? Over the Edge? Hmmmm? Maybe I should rethink those 1000s of rounds I have shot that were 110%, Over the Edge, and Hornady won't approve that?? OK--Not sure I needed Hornady Approval! HEH HEH HEH! Oh Well! And don't ask--Cause I don't know!

Hornady approval? I don’t need no Hornady approval! I don’t intend to submit to Hornady for approval!! And everybody just needs to get over head spacing off the extractor!!! Just another myth busted!!!!

Jim

Oh yes, another "MYTH" busted big time--

Hey, I can't imagine what this chap was getting on about?

Michael

Well Hornady is no different from any other major manufacturer…they want a belt, rim, or shoulder to seat a rifle cartridge off of…only handgun cartridges can use the extractor to seat from – even though almost every user thinks they’re seating off the case mouth rather than the extractor.

But the 50 MDM is something Hornady would never have conceived though they definitely should have!

I do know that Hornady, to eliminate any future similar Winchester/Jamison issue, had run the full range of calibers off the standard length .375 Ruger case and they have the chamber, cartridge, and reamer specifications to back themselves up with should it become an issue in the future. But I truly don’t recollect where they stopped on the lower and upper ends though I’m pretty sure they didn’t go above .458 on the upper end. I also believe they did the same full caliber run with the short case (RCM) shortly after they finished with the standard length case run. So that may be what the individual was referring to.

I actually discussed necking the .375 Ruger up to .423 caliber for a wildcat cartridge with Hornady long before I found out they’d already done it so I can’t verify how close my dimensions were to theirs…but I don’t think I was very far off.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:

quote:

I had a fellow this week that is doing something

I should post the e-mail I get from these goofballs everyday. "I need this ..." or "I'm sending payment for ..." Thinking about charging for the e-mail rather than product, I'd make more money responding to BS.

AMEN BROTHER! I don't know how anyone can possibly run a gun shop! Same story, but the problem is about every 5 minutes there is a new one that walks in!

I have a little page on the B&M Website that explains how I feel about some of these things, geared heavy to prices--Called A Special Note From Michael! Worth a read! Good thing I don't have to make a living doing this!

M

I gotta check that out!!

MacJ

I should make you go hunt it down, but since I am a nice fellow;

http://www.b-mriflesandcartrid...te-From-Michael.html

It gets good about 1/2 way down the page.

HEH

M

Already been there and read the page twice.

Excellent!

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
Already been there and read the page twice.

Excellent!

Thanks J, no moss growing on your North Side eh?

Michael, I'm happy to see you're still going strong and shooting straight!

I want to wish you, your family, and all the others here happy holidays.

As for me, I've just been lurking and learning. I didn't think I had much of anything to contribute except for moral support. But I suppose that's something.

quote:

Already been there and read the page twice.

Excellent!

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
MacJ

I should make you go hunt it down, but since I am a nice fellow;

http://www.b-mriflesandcartrid...te-From-Michael.html

It gets good about 1/2 way down the page.

HEH

M

Just read it and that philosophy applies to so many areas of life.

Do it right the first time
Don't compromise on the right thing
Spend, but never waste, time or money

Nicely written Michael.

Hey Glenn

Long time no hear from! Glad you are still hanging with us, we have covered a lot of ground since you posted last!

Thanks for the holiday wishes, and of course right back at ya as well!

Moral support is dandy, take all we can get! It's important when in a den of wolves!



Mac J and Capo

Glad you like my little note!



Well, got the first delivery today of the new Nitro Bands! Look great. .474 caliber, brass, slightly wider space between the bands and a little crimp groove above top band, exactly as Sam directed!





Not a lot of difference in reality, just a little more space between bands is all. I checked this against some of my short neck cartridges and the top 3 bands are still in the neck of those for tension, so they are good to go with most any cartridge. While they say "Nitro", these can be used in bolt guns of course.

In the B&M cartridge bullets I am going to keep the bands tight up top as I have them now, and probably some of the other bullets I am going to do mostly for bolt guns. Many of the rest, such as .510 caliber will do for both bolt and doubles.

Let's see, I still have on the way and ordered, .474 470 Brass NonCon, .457 #13 480/440 Solid/NonCon, .510 caliber 570 Brass Solid/NonCon, and somewhere I think someone was wanting something in .620 Let's see, not sure I can remember who that was, well anyway I have 10 boxes of .620 900 gr #13 Solids ordered and I went ahead and had 10 boxes of NonCons run as well! I will probably just have to chunk those in the pond if I can't remember who wanted any of these???? Oh well MAYBE someday I will find someone who might want them, at least to do some test work or something??????

HEH HEH

Michael

Wow, them's some pretty boolits, Michael! If they was mine, I'd be makin some jewlery out of 'em!

quote:

Moral support is dandy, take all we can get! It's important when in a den of wolves! rotflmo

I'm still catching up but I haven't noticed any wolves so far. Some jackasses in wolves' clothing maybe...

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Well, got the first delivery today of the new Nitro Bands! Look great. .474 caliber, brass, slightly wider space between the bands and a little crimp groove above top band, exactly as Sam directed!





Not a lot of difference in reality, just a little more space between bands is all. I checked this against some of my short neck cartridges and the top 3 bands are still in the neck of those for tension, so they are good to go with most any cartridge. While they say "Nitro", these can be used in bolt guns of course.

In the B&M cartridge bullets I am going to keep the bands tight up top as I have them now, and probably some of the other bullets I am going to do mostly for bolt guns. Many of the rest, such as .510 caliber will do for both bolt and doubles.

Let's see, I still have on the way and ordered, .474 470 Brass NonCon, .457 #13 480/440 Solid/NonCon, .510 caliber 570 Brass Solid/NonCon, and somewhere I think someone was wanting something in .620 Let's see, not sure I can remember who that was, well anyway I have 10 boxes of .620 900 gr #13 Solids ordered and I went ahead and had 10 boxes of NonCons run as well! I will probably just have to chunk those in the pond if I can't remember who wanted any of these???? Oh well MAYBE someday I will find someone who might want them, at least to do some test work or something??????

HEH HEH

Michael

Michael,

Very nice…I like the NE band spacing with its slightly wider spreading of the upper tri-band. Would it make sense to update all current and future CEB BBW #13 bullets to the NE upper band spacing?

If so then the options from the bullet purchaser’ prospective would be:
1) Diameter and weight,
2) Hollow Point (HP) or Flat Nose (FN),
3) Hollow Base (HB) or Flat Base (FB), and
4) Brass or copper construction.

Note: All HP and HB diameters and depths are specifications established by the designers (Michael and Sam) and the manufacturer (Dan) to assure the bullet’s proper performance for its intended DG game with the selected bullet construction.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Let's see, I still have on the way and ordered, .474 470 Brass NonCon, .457 #13 480/440 Solid/NonCon, .510 caliber 570 Brass Solid/NonCon, and somewhere I think someone was wanting something in .620 Let's see, not sure I can remember who that was, well anyway I have 10 boxes of .620 900 gr #13 Solids ordered and I went ahead and had 10 boxes of NonCons run as well! I will probably just have to chunk those in the pond if I can't remember who wanted any of these???? Oh well MAYBE someday I will find someone who might want them, at least to do some test work or something??????

HEH HEH

Michael

Michael,

Here is what I say to you ...



We need a Moe, Larry and Curly emoticon with sound effects ...

Chuck them in the pond - why I oughta ...



Glad you didn't forget that someone (perhaps a short guy from Brooklyn and of Italian heritage who is getting older, fatter and balder while waiting) had pleaded with you to get these done.

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
MacJ

I should make you go hunt it down, but since I am a nice fellow;

http://www.b-mriflesandcartrid...te-From-Michael.html

It gets good about 1/2 way down the page.

HEH

M

Just read it and that philosophy applies to so many areas of life.

Do it right the first time
Don't compromise on the right thing
Spend, but never waste, time or money

Nicely written Michael.

Here's one I learned from a Navy Captain. "There's no system in the world that's an excuse for doing the wrong thing. There's no system in the world that's an excuse for not doing the right thing."

IBT

That's how I feel about things--100% all the way, My Way, or the Highway!

I used to tell all my guys that "We Work For Next Year--Not this Year"

I also tell them this, "I will Not Be held Hostage, and I don't Negotiate" Just before they are fired.

Anyway, it's 100% or nothing at all.

M

Holy cow, we have BS our way to page 117 in the last day or two!

CCMDoc



HEH HEH! Figured that would get you going!

Talked to Dan the Bullet Man this afternoon! No kidding, I have the bullets on order now. Not sure what he is going to get done this week, holidays and all, he is behind, people out this week, that sort of thing.

Now look, you are going to have to be the test guy on this! I am out of .620 since Corbin got rid of his rifle. Dan and I agreed since we are working in brass that the HP won't be much of an issue as for getting it to shear proper, I think Sam believes so as well. But since I can't confirm this on that caliber, you gonna have to do it. So when they come in I will send some along with the ones you ordered to check out. Not sure exactly how light the NonCon will be, maybe 825 grs or so, still should match up nicely with the 900 CEB BBW #13 Solid! I can't wait until you slam a buffalo with that NonCon!!!!!!



Ordered and on the way, along with plenty of extras to boot!

M

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

"I will Not Be held Hostage, and I don't Negotiate"

Just before they are fired.
M

Sounds like something the bullets say to you "just before they were fired ..."

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Holy cow, we have BS our way to page 117 in the last day or two!

CCMDoc



HEH HEH! Figured that would get you going!

Talked to Dan the Bullet Man this afternoon! No kidding, I have the bullets on order now. Not sure what he is going to get done this week, holidays and all, he is behind, people out this week, that sort of thing.

Now look, you are going to have to be the test guy on this! I am out of .620 since Corbin got rid of his rifle. Dan and I agreed since we are working in brass that the HP won't be much of an issue as for getting it to shear proper, I think Sam believes so as well. But since I can't confirm this on that caliber, you gonna have to do it. So when they come in I will send some along with the ones you ordered to check out. Not sure exactly how light the NonCon will be, maybe 825 grs or so, still should match up nicely with the 900 CEB BBW #13 Solid! I can't wait until you slam a buffalo with that NonCon!!!!!!



Ordered and on the way, along with plenty of extras to boot!

M

Hot Damn!!!

I love a good challenge and an even better test. I don'tahve the setup you do, but 80 acres up off Beaver Dam Road will "have to do".

PM about to be sent ...

CCMDoc

Yes my man, you are the new appointed .620 test dummy! HEH HEH! Here's what we need! First, not even concerned about penetration of the solids, I know the story on that. Not concerned about penetration of the NonCon either. What I want to know is how that big .620 shears! What we want, is the star pattern, six blades shear after 2-4 inches of penetration, move away from center! If they do that--Good to Go! Being brass they will be easier to work with than the copper, so that is a plus. But man that is going to be one BIG HP, so just want to make sure it works as it should is all! Of course, it is going to be very difficult for it not to work one way or the other! If you can do that--You da Man!

M

I just put in the classified some Inventory Reduction Sale Bullets! Swifts, Hornadys, Woodleighs and so forth---75 cents on the dollar!!!! Gotta make some room!

http://forums.accuratereloadin...631057641#4631057641


Michael

Hey Michael!

I resemble that "Test Dummy" remark!

The question now is:

What kind of velocity do you and others want me to drive them at for the test (assuming ~ 825grains for the Non-Cons)?

In the 600 OK, I think it would be pretty easy to hit 2,350 - 2,400fps with them out of a 23" barrel and keep pressures under 55k psi.

For the 600NE (which I do not have as of yet), probably 2,100fps keeping pressures under 32k psi.

Who knows where and how these would regulate in the double but since this is a test of the bullet rather than finding the right hunting load, I am open to suggestions as far as velocities for those of you who might use them in your 600NE doubles.

I know you and Sam have doen great work with the .585 in his 577NE double but if you are interested in seeing results of that projectile at higher velocities as well, my dad has an AHR-built (my present to him for his 70th birthday) 585AHR and we can drive those babies mighty fast in that.

My biggest problem is free time so I won't have results for the masses as quickly as you have been able to produce, but I'll get there, no doubt.

Paul, I have the range here in Lafayette...save you a trip to NY State.

Hey Paul

Test Dummy HEH HEH----


As for the .620 test on the NonCon---Start at the 2000-2100 mark and let's see what happens. As with all NonCons-they like velocity-so if it does well at 2000-2100 fps, then it's going to do SUPER at 2300! No doubt of that.

Yes, when .585 time comes, I will get some to you for that as well! Excellent suggestion, thanks.

No worries about the time frame, do what you can when you can will be dandy!

Also, word is that the .510 order and the .620 order will be done the week of the 10th, and shipped to me the end of the week! Just FYI!

Michael

Michael and Paul,

I think the 600 should be driven at around 1950 fps to be realistic with 600 NE velocities. If the non cons open at that velocity they will open at higher velocity in the big bolts guns.

Paul,

When are you getting your 600 double?

Sam

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Paul, I have the range here in Lafayette...save you a trip to NY State.

Thanks Jon,

Perhaps we can drum up some other local folk to assist in the testing.

Start saving your Yellow Pages ...