I really didn’t know too much about the fellow. I knew he and Don Jr were friends.

But what an awesome speech he gave tonight.

And after hearing about his Mamaw…I am sold. He seems like a very bright, articulate, awesome fellow. The smile never left his face.

Agreed. I loved how spontaneous he was on occasion.

I wonder how long the cheerleaders will continue to praise him?

No doubt he is bright and articulate. I am willing to give him a chance -- but of course I would never vote for the swine he is on the ticket with.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
No doubt he is bright and articulate. I am willing to give him a chance -- but of course I would never vote for the swine he is on the ticket with.

I keep saying with the lame duck choices to look at what the future will bring.

Pedo Joe will not survive the next four years, he is in complete failure. That leaves his VP Harris to take over. Yuck. She has not proven herself to be of any value at all.

With trump, like him or not, his four years wasn't bad save for the 'rona which was unleashed upon the country by very nefarious sources. I can positively say everyone, even you leftists, had a much better economy under trump. People are weary of the covid pricing and 'new' cost of living. The city people are really tired of crime and liberal DAs. They by and large don't want millions of illegals living free on tax payer money. They want them sent home.

So trump's running again and has what looks like a pretty competent choice as a second in command. If trump drops dead I think Vance becomes even more of an asset just based on what credentials he has. They sure look better than Kammi.

Vance is 39…still relatively young. As a professional, I was at my prime at that age frame.

When he wrote Hillbilly Elegy…he ~30 and just coming out of a stent of time of almost complete Ivy League indoctrination. To fit in where he believed he was going (vacating hillbilly culture) he could not “like” Trump and get there — at least that is what his indoctrination had taught him. Thus, he played the role of the conservative “never Trumper.”

Fast forward ~10 years. Those who have been there will appreciate this. The indoctrination begins to wear off. Yes, you embrace the wonderful world that a good education brings you but you begin to be yourself again and exemplify that perfect mix of the wealth of learned knowledge and self identity. Yes, that means realizing some of the proclamations you made during immediate post-indoctrination were dumb and now charting the proper course for the ship.

I like what I saw with Vance in his speech. I think he is in a good place and positioned to be great contributor to 21st century America.

I will confess, I can see where one might change his point of view and not be sucking up to Trump for strictly pragmatic reasons, but I don't know which is worse. The first shows a little more malleability than I like, the second shows a shortage of integrity. Either attribute is common in politics. I'll withhold judgment for now. At least he's less likely than either presidential candidate, to tip over before the term is through. Regards, Bill

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

I like what I saw with Vance in his speech. I think he is in a good place and positioned to be great contributor to 21st century America.

Of course you do!!!!

How could it be otherwise?

Yet, you claim to know nothing about project 2025.

Vance is the epitome and tool of project 2025, and a lot more.

https://www.vox.com/politics/3...sident-authoritarian

What J.D. Vance really believes
The dark worldview of Trump's choice for vice president, explained.

(excerpt)

Vance has said that, had he been vice president in 2020, he would have carried out Trump’s scheme for the vice president to overturn the election results. He has fundraised for January 6 rioters. He once called on the Justice Department to open a criminal investigation into a Washington Post columnist who penned a critical piece about Trump. After last week’s assassination attempt on Trump, he attempted to whitewash his radicalism by blaming the shooting on Democrats’ rhetoric about democracy without an iota of evidence.

This worldview translates into a very aggressive agenda for a second Trump presidency. In a podcast interview, Vance said that Trump should “fire every single mid-level bureaucrat” in the US government and “replace them with our people.” If the courts attempt to stop this, Vance says, Trump should simply ignore the law.

“You stand before the country, like Andrew Jackson did, and say the chief justice has made his ruling, now let him enforce it,” he declares.

The President Jackson quote is likely apocryphal, but the history is real. Vance is referring to an 1832 case, Worcester v. Georgia, in which the Supreme Court ruled that the US government needed to respect Native legal rights to land ownership. Jackson ignored the ruling, and continued a policy of allowing whites to take what belonged to Natives. The end result was the ethnic cleansing of about 60,000 Natives — an event we now call the Trail of Tears.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
No doubt he is bright and articulate. I am willing to give him a chance -- but of course I would never vote for the swine he is on the ticket with.

I keep saying with the lame duck choices to look at what the future will bring.

Pedo Joe will not survive the next four years, he is in complete failure. That leaves his VP Harris to take over. Yuck. She has not proven herself to be of any value at all.

With trump, like him or not, his four years wasn't bad save for the 'rona which was unleashed upon the country by very nefarious sources. I can positively say everyone, even you leftists, had a much better economy under trump. People are weary of the covid pricing and 'new' cost of living. The city people are really tired of crime and liberal DAs. They by and large don't want millions of illegals living free on tax payer money. They want them sent home.

So trump's running again and has what looks like a pretty competent choice as a second in command. If trump drops dead I think Vance becomes even more of an asset just based on what credentials he has. They sure look better than Kammi.

Ann -

I'll make a wild prediction here. Since Biden cannot win, he will withdraw from running and peacefully finish his term.

The left doesn't want Harris...period.

So who could they place ahead of her that wouldn't cause a civil war in the Democrat party?

Hakeem Jefferies.

quote:

Hakeem Jefferies.

Steve,
Bet you got it!

quote:

Hakeem Jefferies

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...oTZ?ocid=socialshare

Hakeem Jeffries Sends Strange Message After Private Biden Meeting
Opinion by Talia Jane • 6d • 2 min read

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Vance is 39…still relatively young. As a professional, I was at my prime at that age frame.

When he wrote Hillbilly Elegy…he ~30 and just coming out of a stent of time of almost complete Ivy League indoctrination. To fit in where he believed he was going (vacating hillbilly culture) he could not “like” Trump and get there — at least that is what his indoctrination had taught him. Thus, he played the role of the conservative “never Trumper.”

Fast forward ~10 years. Those who have been there will appreciate this. The indoctrination begins to wear off. Yes, you embrace the wonderful world that a good education brings you but you begin to be yourself again and exemplify that perfect mix of the wealth of learned knowledge and self identity. Yes, that means realizing some of the proclamations you made during immediate post-indoctrination were dumb and now charting the proper course for the ship.

I like what I saw with Vance in his speech. I think he is in a good place and positioned to be great contributor to 21st century America.

I never cease to be amazed at your ability to rationalize irreconcilable facts to suit your own worldview.

I don't think I'd hire you to diagnose a horse, but you might have made a good lawyer.

I thought his speech was fun to listen to, but agree that it was hyperbolic.

I have some concerns regarding some of his past positions.

After reading up on him, I’m not surprised that Trump chose him.

So, frankinthelaurels, you obviously knew Vance's grandmother, correct?

Did she have any handguns around the house that you can recall?

Shows they must have been poor.
I have way more than that around the house!

The criticisms I've heard about him are:

1. He previously said bad things about Trump I've said negative things about Trump. I truly believe this latest event has caused him to mature and not tweet stupid comments.
2. The fact that he is too young. He's 39. That's his prime and he's very smart.
3. His wife is the daughter of Indian immigrants. Now that's just disgusting.

So their argument boil down to mean words, ageism and bigotry. How woke of them.

A few years ago, Vance said he'd never support Trump.

Now he jumps on the bandwagon.

That's more than a mean tweet. It shows a lack of principles and integrity.

Moreover, the guy says he wouldn't have certified the election as Pence did. Confessing that he wouldn't have done his Constitutional duty, and may not again if his boss shouts foul on the election. Which we all know Trump will do if he loses.

I don't see much to admire or like about him.

Roland,
Have you never changed your mind about anything?

What are Newton's Laws of Motion?
Newton's First Law: Inertia;
Newton's Second Law: Force;
Newton's Third Law: Action & Reaction.

Let's not underestimate J D Vance. In the context of politics, Vance has all three of Newton's laws covered, working in his favor. Much of it by his own making, some luck and circumstance.

Vance is more complicated than we know, appreciate and perhaps can imagine.

We know some of the stuff he said in the past, and his transition. We know some of what he says now or recently. They don't seem to reconcile, but it probably doesn't matter much, except that it makes his trajectory predictions complicated.

In the future, can we count on him staying put, re worldview, where he's landed for now? I don't think so. There are too many flaws to work with there, so how will he fix them? And he will fix them.

I think Vance is headed for something great. Whether that's good or bad is yet an open question, although there are very significant clues towards bad, assuming he doesn't morph again, shed his skin again so to speak. I think his worldview hasn't matured yet, and he's not yet in a position to impose it. So, he will be careful for a while, until the time is right.

Here's a couple of thoughtful articles that hopefully explain more about what I'm saying:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...732a118bafaa0b&ei=59

‘Hillbilly Hobbit’: How Lord of the Rings Shaped JD Vance’s Worldview

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...732a118bafaa0b&ei=20

Hillbilly Excuses

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Roland,
Have you never changed your mind about anything?

Now that's irony.

Coming from you.

I ask you the same question.

As for me, once upon a time I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Roland,
Have you never changed your mind about anything?

Change your mind to the better.

Not worse!

Trump is much worse now than he was a few years ago!

Lane, and all, Instead of adding the following link to my post above about Vance, to highlight this video, I make a new post of it. In part, the reason is that the Maddow video changes my mind somewhat compared to my post above. The facts presented are concise, and I didn't know. But I do now.

I realize that those who never change their minds, especially politically or worldview also never want to see or hear anything Maddow has to say.

But I also know that you like to take selected facts and interpolate or make stretched inferences therefrom.

If you watch this linked video, please focus first on the facts she presents, then the logical inferences. That's how it should be done. It's also not how Fox does it. I see no stretches.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...c&ei=12&sc=shoreline

Rachel Maddow exposes the real reason JD Vance was chosen to be Trump's running mate

Rachel Maddow reviews the remarkably sparse qualifications JD Vance offers both as a campaign partner and as a potential vice president (and even a senator), and points out Vance's interest in changing the American system of government, which is the qualification that most appeals to Donald Trump, confident of a win.

Sounds like the Obama issues, doesn’t it. No experience to speak of. A self-serving author. A wee bit different as to supporters, though …. As you know well, the mentor for Obama was a domestic terrorist. Held Obama’s first fundraiser. I’m sure Maddow was outraged back then.



Damn, I wonder if Maddow has found Vance’s birth certificate?

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Lane, and all, Instead of adding the following link to my post above about Vance, to highlight this video, I make a new post of it.

I realize that those who never change their minds, especially politically or worldview also never want to see or hear anything Maddow has to say.

But I also know that you like to take selected facts and interpolate or make stretched inferences therefrom.

If you watch this linked video, please focus first on the facts she presents, then the logical inferences. That's how it should be done. It's also not how Fox does it. I see no stretches.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...c&ei=12&sc=shoreline

Rachel Maddow exposes the real reason JD Vance was chosen to be Trump's running mate

Rachel Maddow reviews the remarkably sparse qualifications JD Vance offers both as a campaign partner and as a potential vice president (and even a senator), and points out Vance's interest in changing the American system of government, which is the qualification that most appeals to Donald Trump, confident of a win.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
Sounds like the Obama issues, doesn’t it. No experience to speak of. A self-serving author. A wee bit different as to supporters, though …. As you know well, the mentor for Obama was a domestic terrorist. Held Obama’s first fundraiser. I’m sure Maddow was outraged back then.

Damn, I wonder if Maddow has found Vance’s birth certificate?

That's funny, sorta.

Vance and Obama have/had different goals for using the power.

As I think about it some more, I still think Vance is exceptional.

He figured out something at a young age that I wish I had figured out.

Not only did he figure out which side of the toast the butter is on, but also who is in charge of the butter and where and how they want the jam spread, and they own that too. And they own him - for now.

I don't know how the elites figure and plan for Vance owing the toast, the butter, the jam, the spoon to spread it, and the elites who empowered him. Maybe they think they can control and direct him for as long as it takes. And they may be right (pun intended), as long as they butter his toast well enough.

It says a lot, in choosing him. They think they can trust him, or at least control him. The elites who empowered, groomed him, consider him a primo tool, with more grooming even better than Trump, for obvious reasons, but certainly the duo for the time being.

All I knew for way too long was which side of the toast the butter was on.

That you use that screeching banshee Madcow as a source is laughable. That is the equivalent of me using Alex Jones as a credible source.


As for “changing our for form of government” ?? You do realize that we have to many checks and balances in place as to make thr a virtual impossibility.

All you are doing is fear mongering.


Do better.

Sorry you FEEL that way.

But it does say a lot about you and your ability to sort things out.

Jones is about as intellectual as an alligator or snapping turtle. He also has no regard for truth except for consuming it and shitting lies, or regurgitating it spun with toxic bile.

I don't see anything screaming or banshee about Maddow's presentations. I see measured logic, backed with lots of facts and evidence.

When trump says shit he will just ask what color and how much.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Sorry you FEEL that way.

But it does say a lot about you and your ability to sort things out.

Jones is about as intellectual as an alligator or snapping turtle. He also has no regard for truth except for consuming it and shitting lies, or regurgitating it spun with toxic bile.

Sorry hurt your little feels.

But it is a fact that Madcow is nothing more than a screeching stooge of the left and IMNSHO to be regarded about as much as Jones who is a flaming idiot.

Facts don’t care about your feels.

quote:

Originally posted by Hasher:

As for “changing our for form of government” ?? You do realize that we have to many checks and balances in place as to make thr a virtual impossibility.

All you are doing is fear mongering.

Do better.

I am well aware of the checks and balances, and how they have failed us recently.

That failure was intentional, and it is all from the Right, SCOTUS and congress in particular, lower courts to some degree.

But what's happened so far is just a prelude to the plan, which is project 2025.

Calling out fear mongering is either denial or ignorance or complicity, when it's actual reality, deciphered from their own words and deeds. It's not speculation. It's recognition of the possibility of what they say they are going to do happening, and if elected it goes beyond possibility to probability.

The Fact is that you FEEL that way. That's all that fact means - no other relation to reality of any sorts.

quote:

Originally posted by Hasher:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Sorry you FEEL that way.

But it does say a lot about you and your ability to sort things out.

Jones is about as intellectual as an alligator or snapping turtle. He also has no regard for truth except for consuming it and shitting lies, or regurgitating it spun with toxic bile.

Sorry hurt your little feels.

But it is a fact that Madcow is nothing more than a screeching stooge of the left and IMNSHO to be regarded about as much as Jones who is a flaming idiot.

Facts don’t care about your feels.

Mangina

They used to say that Goering lived in a fantasy land and referred to it as Cloud Coocoo Land


Well welcome to Cloud CooCoo Land.


Population you.

quote:

Cloud Coocoo Land

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_cuckoo_land

What I think we are seeing on this forum is an exceptional bunch of trolls, emerging yet again as the election draws near, like Periodical Cicadas on two or four year cycles.

If so, they have upped their anti.

I don't see any relation of me to cloud coocoo land, but I do see a relationship of you and a few others herein, and the GOPerism movement of TRUMP/Vance and Project 2025 with Goering.

And I think your Cloud CooCoo Land analogy is a projection, like you really know what it is.

Personally I can’t stand trump.

I kind of don’t like him.

But when I compare him to a doddering addled pedophile and his crime family and a party that wanted to force vaccinate people, lock them in camps (literally Hitler) and generally hates me for being a gun owner I’ll take the guy I dot. Like.


Now please continue with your adhominem god worship off all things Biden.

quote:

Originally posted by Hasher:
.

All you are doing is fear mongering.

Are you talking about kabob? He, and a couple more here, not only live in a world of fear, but they also respond from fear. That's seldom a winning strategy

Is it fear or experience when we have seen Trump as POTUS before?

Burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice, shame on me.

Some folks are indeed slow learners Jeffe.

Please don't assume that I think Hasher is utterly wrong.

I fear that he's right in some ways.

But he's not correct about the god worship thing.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...938ea5694d522b&ei=37

Why liberal democracy is already a dying fantasy
Story by Poppy Coburn • 8h • 4 min read

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Hasher:
.

All you are doing is fear mongering.

Are you talking about kabob? He, and a couple more here, not only live in a world of fear, but they also respond from fear. That's seldom a winning strategy

Of course, you are correct about fear. I don't know which is worse, fear or denial.

Fear, of course, is evolutionary, and rooted in survival. It's primal.

Denial is just unhealthy, and lately a hinge or invention of Rightists.

quote:

I don't see anything screaming or banshee about Maddow's presentations. I see measured logic, backed with lots of facts and evidence.

And there you have why it is useless to argue with ME.

Rachel Maddow is one the most biased spewers of liberal propaganda that ever walked the earth. If she told me the sky was blue…I would walk outside and check.