quote:

Ignored post by Hasher posted 25 July 2024 18:52

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Ignored post by Hasher posted 25 July 2024 18:52

quote:

Ignored post by Hasher posted 25 July 2024 19:03

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
A fetus, not a human being and not your business.

Yes, it is. You should quit propagating this “lie” ole arbiter of truth.

I am happy to allow others to make the choice that they feels is best for them. A novel concept I know.

Sort of Libertarian.

Can you explain your position in a Libertarian context? You know, small Government, choices left to the individual...etc?

Abortion does not kill human beings but it does terminate a fetus.

It is alive and the procedure “kills” it — don’t be afraid to say what you support!

Happy to help you out on these medical details Doc

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

Post up the quote. He has stated several times now that he doesn’t feel that way and never meant that.

https://www.newsweek.com/jd-va...nt-marriages-1727795

"one of the great tricks that I think the sexual revolution pulled on the American populace" was convincing people in "unhappy" or "even violent" marriages that getting divorced would "make people happier in the long term,"

"Maybe it worked out for the moms and dads, though I'm skeptical. But it really didn't work out for the kids of those marriages," Vance said, according to Vice. "And that's what I think all of us should be honest about, is we've run this experiment in real time. And what we have is a lot of very, very real family dysfunction that's making our kids unhappy."

Sorry but any woman being abused at home in front of her kids should leave that marriage, no matter what JD Vance says.

The real motivation behind these moves is revealed in the first sentence of the quote, undoing the sexual revolution. Good luck on that

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:


"one of the great tricks that I think the sexual revolution pulled on the American populace" was convincing people in "unhappy" or "even violent" marriages that getting divorced would "make people happier in the long term,"

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
A fetus, not a human being and not your business.

Yes, it is. You should quit propagating this “lie” ole arbiter of truth.

I am happy to allow others to make the choice that they feels is best for them. A novel concept I know.

Sort of Libertarian.

Can you explain your position in a Libertarian context? You know, small Government, choices left to the individual...etc?

Abortion does not kill human beings but it does terminate a fetus.

It is alive and the procedure “kills” it — don’t be afraid to say what you support!

Happy to help you out on these medical details Doc

And as usual you are wrong.

being - a person or thing that exists

It is definitely human.

Thus, abortion kills a human being — usually by smashing its head.

I hope you are finally able to comprehend.

And hopefully…quit lying! You being the arbiter of truth and all. It’s a bad look for you Steve.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
A fetus, not a human being and not your business.

Yes, it is. You should quit propagating this “lie” ole arbiter of truth.

I am happy to allow others to make the choice that they feels is best for them. A novel concept I know.

Sort of Libertarian.

Can you explain your position in a Libertarian context? You know, small Government, choices left to the individual...etc?

Abortion does not kill human beings but it does terminate a fetus.

It is alive and the procedure “kills” it — don’t be afraid to say what you support!

Happy to help you out on these medical details Doc

And as usual you are wrong.

being - a person or thing that exists

It is definitely human.

Thus, abortion kills a human being — usually by smashing its head.

I hope you are finally able to comprehend.

And hopefully…quit lying! You being the arbiter of truth and all. It’s a bad look for you Steve.

I usually avoid getting in the middle of pro-life vs pro-abortion arguments.

I suspect everyone has opinions about it, and find support one way or another.

For the shock of it, I'll just say up front that my opinions align more with Lane's than otherwise. And that's not based on religious belief on my part.

There are many, many so-deemed science based articles about it.

Some try to boil it down to a question of when is a fetus a Sentient Being? https://human.libretexts.org/B...acts_about_Abortions

The broad info search:

https://www.google.com/search?...B7pa&sclient=gws-wiz

IMO, that's aside the point. It's not a matter of when, but the fact that it will most likely be if nature is allowed to take its course uninterrupted.

IOW, all the rationales about when is a fetus a sentient being is moot, IMO.

I often think of it this way: We all know of, and I could list many people who were soldiers in WWII who survived and went on to do great things in the world. Many were our fathers and grandfathers.

How many potentially great people died and never got to make their contribution to the world due to very bad chain of events, decisions made by others, and circumstances out of their control?

A fetus has no vote in its fate whatsoever. They are helpless. It's up to us.

Anyway, I've had my say.

BTW, I realize there's an argument favoring the woman's rights and so-deemed control of her body. I get that.

Look at it this way:
I'll make a Bible reference here, as I remember it - the fertile earth is not ours to own, nor is its fertility. Sure, we divvy it up for civil reasons, and that's a human construct and mess it up at will, but we are designated stewards, caretakers of the gift, for several reasons but one thing is future generations.

Similarly, a woman's fertility is a gift of nature. That and her body are something her own. But the product of that fertility, the sentient being, is not Her's to own. It owns itself. She, designated by nature (or God in Lane's view) is the steward or caretaker with innate responsibility. Abortion shuns all that, and rationalizes it as a moral right.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

Post up the quote. He has stated several times now that he doesn’t feel that way and never meant that.

https://www.newsweek.com/jd-va...nt-marriages-1727795

"one of the great tricks that I think the sexual revolution pulled on the American populace" was convincing people in "unhappy" or "even violent" marriages that getting divorced would "make people happier in the long term,"

"Maybe it worked out for the moms and dads, though I'm skeptical. But it really didn't work out for the kids of those marriages," Vance said, according to Vice. "And that's what I think all of us should be honest about, is we've run this experiment in real time. And what we have is a lot of very, very real family dysfunction that's making our kids unhappy."

Sorry but any woman being abused at home in front of her kids should leave that marriage, no matter what JD Vance says.

The real motivation behind these moves is revealed in the first sentence of the quote, undoing the sexual revolution. Good luck on that

Looks to me like every thing he states there 100% the truth. Want to point any fallacies?

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
A fetus, not a human being and not your business.

Yes, it is. You should quit propagating this “lie” ole arbiter of truth.

I am happy to allow others to make the choice that they feels is best for them. A novel concept I know.

Sort of Libertarian.

Can you explain your position in a Libertarian context? You know, small Government, choices left to the individual...etc?

Abortion does not kill human beings but it does terminate a fetus.

It is alive and the procedure “kills” it — don’t be afraid to say what you support!

Happy to help you out on these medical details Doc

And as usual you are wrong.

being - a person or thing that exists

It is definitely human.

Thus, abortion kills a human being — usually by smashing its head.

I hope you are finally able to comprehend.

And hopefully…quit lying! You being the arbiter of truth and all. It’s a bad look for you Steve.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:


"one of the great tricks that I think the sexual revolution pulled on the American populace" was convincing people in "unhappy" or "even violent" marriages that getting divorced would "make people happier in the long term,"

Sure, anyone condoning a woman staying in a violent marriage because leaving won't lead to "long term happiness" is promoting a fallacy, and is batshit crazy.

quote:

Originally posted by nute:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
A fetus, not a human being and not your business.

Yes, it is. You should quit propagating this “lie” ole arbiter of truth.

I am happy to allow others to make the choice that they feels is best for them. A novel concept I know.

Sort of Libertarian.

Can you explain your position in a Libertarian context? You know, small Government, choices left to the individual...etc?

Abortion does not kill human beings but it does terminate a fetus.

It is alive and the procedure “kills” it — don’t be afraid to say what you support!

Happy to help you out on these medical details Doc

And as usual you are wrong.

being - a person or thing that exists

It is definitely human.

Thus, abortion kills a human being — usually by smashing its head.

I hope you are finally able to comprehend.

And hopefully…quit lying! You being the arbiter of truth and all. It’s a bad look for you Steve.

Lane, I want to start by saying Im not trying to troll you, or start an argument ... in fact I wont reply if you do respond to my question, and I'm not going to engage in debate with any others who may respond. Im just interested in how you rationalise this.

You have frequently posted here on your stance on abortion being that it is in effect killing an innocent life. I think I did see you comment to the effect that you were once pro choice but have have come to see things in the opposite way.

You have also commented several times on the war in the Middle East to the effect that you have no problem with what is happening, other than to call it regrettable, and although you might not have used the exact words the impression you give is that those on the receiving end deserve it.

This is a war has seen 36,000+ deaths (maybe its higher now I don't know) and many times more than that maimed and wounded often in circumstances where limited or no anesthetic or other medication is available in a population where around 50% are under the age of 15 (depends where you look for exact numbers).

How do you reconcile this, on one hand vehemently opposing abortion yet not in the same way opposing what is happening in the Middle East which is resulting in thousands of kids dying every month?

I am interested because I would class myself as pro choice yet I also believe we should do all we can to try to bring a halt to what is going on in the ME and the suffering it is causing. I would qualify my pro choice stance as saying that abortion should be the absolute last possible resort, the time frame where it is permissible should be reduced and that more resources should go into education particularly amongst the socioeconomic groups who are statistically more likely to have an abortion, making the available methods of birth control more accessible and hugely increased support for unwanted kids. I also view myself as a christian and have to admit that abortion troubles me deeply.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:


"one of the great tricks that I think the sexual revolution pulled on the American populace" was convincing people in "unhappy" or "even violent" marriages that getting divorced would "make people happier in the long term,"

Sure, anyone condoning a woman staying in a violent marriage because leaving won't lead to "long term happiness" is promoting a fallacy, and is batshit crazy.

He didn’t say to stay did he? I don’t see the words in there.

Most marriages these days end in divorce. Definitely something wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

Post up the quote. He has stated several times now that he doesn’t feel that way and never meant that.

https://www.newsweek.com/jd-va...nt-marriages-1727795

"one of the great tricks that I think the sexual revolution pulled on the American populace" was convincing people in "unhappy" or "even violent" marriages that getting divorced would "make people happier in the long term,"

"Maybe it worked out for the moms and dads, though I'm skeptical. But it really didn't work out for the kids of those marriages," Vance said, according to Vice. "And that's what I think all of us should be honest about, is we've run this experiment in real time. And what we have is a lot of very, very real family dysfunction that's making our kids unhappy."

Sorry but any woman being abused at home in front of her kids should leave that marriage, no matter what JD Vance says.

The real motivation behind these moves is revealed in the first sentence of the quote, undoing the sexual revolution. Good luck on that

Looks to me like every thing he states there 100% the truth. Want to point any fallacies?

Every word Vance wrote above is a lie. You are in no position to argue or support making divorce more difficult for people who are in abusive relationships.

However, you are a hypocrite.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
I know I am a sinner and ask my Lord for forgiveness and mercy each and every day.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
It’s a logic issue.

-----------------------------------

Getting rid of divorce isn’t the cure to the societal ill.

Getting people to live responsibly would help, but it’s not a fix either.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
It’s a logic issue.

Vance is saying that just leaving will not in and of itself make a person happy… how many abused women go back because they want to, even knowing the abusive past?

Similarly, the children are often unhappy having their biological family broken up.

That doesn’t mean that the woman shouldn’t leave that situation… it means that there are multiple issues involved in most cases and just the physical separation is not going to make anyone happier.

The person(s) involved need to change and they need to accept the new reality. Some (the kids in particular) can’t accept it or understand why it should happen. Until they get past that, they are not going to be happy.

The point is happiness is “why” people do some things, but the thing is not happiness.

You get married and it isn’t “fun” so you divorce… fundamentally, if the reason you got married was “fun” you probably shouldn’t have gotten married in the first place.

Vance is correct in that divorce in an abusive situation isn’t going to make anyone happier in and of itself… it may be a path to become happier but other tough things have to happen before you “fix the problem.”

Getting rid of divorce isn’t the cure to the societal ill.

Getting people to live responsibly would help, but it’s not a fix either.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
Are you sure an abused woman is not the loser?

Seems to me that nobody should stay in an abusive situation because you think it is a good idea Doc.

Self determination, free will, Libertarian concepts you might want to brush up on.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
It’s a logic issue.

Vance is saying that just leaving will not in and of itself make a person happy… how many abused women go back because they want to, even knowing the abusive past?

Similarly, the children are often unhappy having their biological family broken up.

That doesn’t mean that the woman shouldn’t leave that situation… it means that there are multiple issues involved in most cases and just the physical separation is not going to make anyone happier.

The person(s) involved need to change and they need to accept the new reality. Some (the kids in particular) can’t accept it or understand why it should happen. Until they get past that, they are not going to be happy.

The point is happiness is “why” people do some things, but the thing is not happiness.

You get married and it isn’t “fun” so you divorce… fundamentally, if the reason you got married was “fun” you probably shouldn’t have gotten married in the first place.

Vance is correct in that divorce in an abusive situation isn’t going to make anyone happier in and of itself… it may be a path to become happier but other tough things have to happen before you “fix the problem.”

Getting rid of divorce isn’t the cure to the societal ill.

Getting people to live responsibly would help, but it’s not a fix either.

Getting rid of marriage would be a good start.

Conservatives screech about "get the government out of my private life!" but welcome the government intrusively into the most private interpersonal relationship there is between a man, a woman, a small pony, three ducks and a marmot. Having the government sanction the relationship between people, then sanctioning the dissolution of that relationship, is anachronistic, and government should get entirely out of the marriage business. No tax considerations (why should the unmarried subsidize your wedding?), no spousal privilege against testifying in court. Out.

If two or three or six people want to invite whatever imaginary construct they believe in (and their self-appointed earthly representatives) to sanctify their sleeping arrangements that's the choice of free people.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
I know I am a sinner and ask my Lord for forgiveness and mercy each and every day.

How's that working out for you? Seriously.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
Are you sure an abused woman is not a loser?

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
I know I am a sinner and ask my Lord for forgiveness and mercy each and every day.

How's that working out for you? Seriously.

Well

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
I know I am a sinner and ask my Lord for forgiveness and mercy each and every day.

How's that working out for you? Seriously.

Well

I thought "repent" was involved in there somewhere. You know - self-awareness and quite introspection and reflections, etc.

But you didn't mention that, and it's not evident from the outside looking in.

It's really none of my business regarding your imaginary friend, but when it spills out in public, that's different.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
It’s a logic issue.

Vance is saying that just leaving will not in and of itself make a person happy… how many abused women go back because they want to, even knowing the abusive past?

Similarly, the children are often unhappy having their biological family broken up.

That doesn’t mean that the woman shouldn’t leave that situation… it means that there are multiple issues involved in most cases and just the physical separation is not going to make anyone happier.

The person(s) involved need to change and they need to accept the new reality. Some (the kids in particular) can’t accept it or understand why it should happen. Until they get past that, they are not going to be happy.

The point is happiness is “why” people do some things, but the thing is not happiness.

You get married and it isn’t “fun” so you divorce… fundamentally, if the reason you got married was “fun” you probably shouldn’t have gotten married in the first place.

Vance is correct in that divorce in an abusive situation isn’t going to make anyone happier in and of itself… it may be a path to become happier but other tough things have to happen before you “fix the problem.”

Getting rid of divorce isn’t the cure to the societal ill.

Getting people to live responsibly would help, but it’s not a fix either.

Getting rid of marriage would be a good start.

Conservatives screech about "get the government out of my private life!" but welcome the government intrusively into the most private interpersonal relationship there is between a man, a woman, a small pony, three ducks and a marmot. Having the government sanction the relationship between people, then sanctioning the dissolution of that relationship, is anachronistic, and government should get entirely out of the marriage business. No tax considerations (why should the unmarried subsidize your wedding?), no spousal privilege against testifying in court. Out.

If two or three or six people want to invite whatever imaginary construct they believe in (and their self-appointed earthly representatives) to sanctify their sleeping arrangements that's the choice of free people.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
It’s a logic issue.

Vance is saying that just leaving will not in and of itself make a person happy… how many abused women go back because they want to, even knowing the abusive past?

Similarly, the children are often unhappy having their biological family broken up.

That doesn’t mean that the woman shouldn’t leave that situation… it means that there are multiple issues involved in most cases and just the physical separation is not going to make anyone happier.

The person(s) involved need to change and they need to accept the new reality. Some (the kids in particular) can’t accept it or understand why it should happen. Until they get past that, they are not going to be happy.

The point is happiness is “why” people do some things, but the thing is not happiness.

You get married and it isn’t “fun” so you divorce… fundamentally, if the reason you got married was “fun” you probably shouldn’t have gotten married in the first place.

Vance is correct in that divorce in an abusive situation isn’t going to make anyone happier in and of itself… it may be a path to become happier but other tough things have to happen before you “fix the problem.”

Getting rid of divorce isn’t the cure to the societal ill.

Getting people to live responsibly would help, but it’s not a fix either.

Getting rid of marriage would be a good start.

Conservatives screech about "get the government out of my private life!" but welcome the government intrusively into the most private interpersonal relationship there is between a man, a woman, a small pony, three ducks and a marmot. Having the government sanction the relationship between people, then sanctioning the dissolution of that relationship, is anachronistic, and government should get entirely out of the marriage business. No tax considerations (why should the unmarried subsidize your wedding?), no spousal privilege against testifying in court. Out.

If two or three or six people want to invite whatever imaginary construct they believe in (and their self-appointed earthly representatives) to sanctify their sleeping arrangements that's the choice of free people.

I am going to agree with you on one thing. The government should get out of the marriage business.

quote:

Ignored post by Hasher posted 27 July 2024 20:00

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
I know I am a sinner and ask my Lord for forgiveness and mercy each and every day.

How's that working out for you? Seriously.

Well

I thought "repent" was involved in there somewhere. You know - self-awareness and quite introspection and reflections, etc.

But you didn't mention that, and it's not evident from the outside looking in.

It's really none of my business regarding your imaginary friend, but when it spills out in public, that's different.

If you lived in my personal community…you wouldn’t have to ask.

And you are right…I owe “you” no explanation. But I do pray for your salvation.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

Here's the "Fix" that apparently you both and millions of others support:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...55455d45badc28&ei=43

Trump urges Christians to vote: ‘You won’t have to do it’ in four years
Story by Ian Swanson • 2h • 3 min read

(excerpt)

Former President Trump at a Friday event hosted by the conservative Christian organization Turning Point Action urged Christians to vote, saying they wouldn’t have to do it again if they got out there in November and elected him because “everything” would be “fixed.”

“Christians, get out and vote, just this time,” Trump exclaimed to a cheering crowd in West Palm Beach, Fla.

“You won’t have to do it anymore. Four more years, you know what, it will be fixed, it will be fine, you won’t have to vote anymore, my beautiful Christians” he added.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
Are you sure an abused woman is not a loser?

Of course she is. No one arguing differently. But she put herself in the situation. Kids are innocent bystanders.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Ignored post by Hasher posted 27 July 2024 20:00

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
I know I am a sinner and ask my Lord for forgiveness and mercy each and every day.

How's that working out for you? Seriously.

Well

I thought "repent" was involved in there somewhere. You know - self-awareness and quite introspection and reflections, etc.

But you didn't mention that, and it's not evident from the outside looking in.

It's really none of my business regarding your imaginary friend, but when it spills out in public, that's different.

If you lived in my personal community…you wouldn’t have to ask.

And you are right…I owe “you” no explanation. But I do pray for your salvation.

I know about those tribal affirmation communities. Some are called cults.

And, of course you don't owe me anything by obligation or conscience. It's your personal choice. But the thing is - I'm asking for a friend.

I'll do a partial quote:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

Here's the "Fix" that apparently you both and millions of others support:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...55455d45badc28&ei=43

Trump urges Christians to vote: ‘You won’t have to do it’ in four years
Story by Ian Swanson • 2h • 3 min read

(excerpt)

Former President Trump at a Friday event hosted by the conservative Christian organization Turning Point Action urged Christians to vote, saying they wouldn’t have to do it again if they got out there in November and elected him because “everything” would be “fixed.”

“Christians, get out and vote, just this time,” Trump exclaimed to a cheering crowd in West Palm Beach, Fla.

“You won’t have to do it anymore. Four more years, you know what, it will be fixed, it will be fine, you won’t have to vote anymore, my beautiful Christians” he added.

So, I'm curious as to your opinion and rationalizations about what Trump said, his own words, and the implications.

Doc Butler, you can chime in too since I know you are so good at rationalizations.

Of course you can ask for my opinion, or not. I'll probably give it anyway.

I really don't need to rationalize or interpret what Trump said there in that speech reported/quoted in his own words. But there are dog whistles in there. Do you want to know what they are? Or do you get it already?

Superficially, it's very telling that Trump and perhaps his speech writers thought saying that out loud is okay, appropriate, good, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
I know I am a sinner and ask my Lord for forgiveness and mercy each and every day.

How's that working out for you? Seriously.

Well

I thought "repent" was involved in there somewhere. You know - self-awareness and quite introspection and reflections, etc.

But you didn't mention that, and it's not evident from the outside looking in.

It's really none of my business regarding your imaginary friend, but when it spills out in public, that's different.

If you lived in my personal community…you wouldn’t have to ask.

And you are right…I owe “you” no explanation. But I do pray for your salvation.

I know about those tribal affirmation communities. Some are called cults.

And, of course you don't owe me anything by obligation or conscience. It's your personal choice. But the thing is - I'm asking for a friend.

I'll do a partial quote:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

Here's the "Fix" that apparently you both and millions of others support:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...55455d45badc28&ei=43

Trump urges Christians to vote: ‘You won’t have to do it’ in four years
Story by Ian Swanson • 2h • 3 min read

(excerpt)

Former President Trump at a Friday event hosted by the conservative Christian organization Turning Point Action urged Christians to vote, saying they wouldn’t have to do it again if they got out there in November and elected him because “everything” would be “fixed.”

“Christians, get out and vote, just this time,” Trump exclaimed to a cheering crowd in West Palm Beach, Fla.

“You won’t have to do it anymore. Four more years, you know what, it will be fixed, it will be fine, you won’t have to vote anymore, my beautiful Christians” he added.

So, I'm curious as to your opinion and rationalizations about what Trump said, his own words, and the implications.

Doc Butler, you can chime in too since I know you are so good at rationalizations.

Of course you can ask for my opinion, or not. I'll probably give it anyway.

I really don't need to rationalize or interpret what Trump said there in that speech reported/quoted in his own words. But there are dog whistles in there. Do you want to know what they are? Or do you get it already?

Superficially, it's very telling that Trump and perhaps his speech writers thought saying that out loud is okay, appropriate, good, etc.

Don't forget Trump's main virtue is he always says what he means.

Except when folks have to wait a day or three to get the talking points explaining what he meant.

quote:

Ignored post by Hasher posted 27 July 2024 20:41

quote:

Don't forget Trump's main virtue is he always says what he means.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Don't forget Trump's main virtue is he always says what he means.

Oh, I didn't know that Trump had a virtue.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Ignored post by Hasher posted 27 July 2024 20:41