quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
You would be surprised. Most of the people in Iran dont hate the west.

They might not hate the west but they hate the west's support of Israel.

I don't know if you study history or no......but their hate stems from jealousy.

quote:

Originally posted by nute:
Did Trump not claim in his inauguration speech that he would be a unifier and a peacemaker- to stop all wars and bring a new spirit of unity to a world that has been angry, violent, and totally unpredictable...oh, and stoping the Ukraine war in 24 hrs.

He's gone from that to saying no plans to kill Irans leader - for now...

It takes strength to have peace......

Has Iran done much to foment peace? No, you say ( actually you didnt) Iran through proxies does MUCH to ensure that is no peace.

President Trump is doing a good job of promoting peace by helping Israel end Iran's terror.

You pussies should be glad we will do it so you can sit back wringing your Hands and second guessing.....

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
I think if Israel helped rebuild Iran and they became good trading partners it could be a renaissance for the Middle East.

Wouldn't that be just incredible!

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:

quote:

Originally posted by nute:
Did Trump not claim in his inauguration speech that he would be a unifier and a peacemaker- to stop all wars and bring a new spirit of unity to a world that has been angry, violent, and totally unpredictable...oh, and stoping the Ukraine war in 24 hrs.

He's gone from that to saying no plans to kill Irans leader - for now...

Most of the world would agree that an arms race in the Middle East and a Nuke power in the hands of the revolutionary guard and the Mullahs is bad. I think Israel is doing the world a favor. The IRGC has had its hands in many horrible things. Taking out the Mullahs will weaken Putin because of the obvious and make Putin accept a deal less in his favor when it comes to ending the war in Ukraine. What bad could come from Iran having its people not living under a tyrannical fanatical religious minority who think peace comes through killing Jews and as many Americans as possible!!?

Israel has broad shoulders!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Iran has every right to develop nuclear weapons.

No, I don’t like it.

But Israel has them and has been expanding non stop since its illegal creation!

They have, on many times, threatened their neighbors with them.

May be Pakistan will drum some sense into them.

As they have announce if NitanHitler uses any nuclear weapons against Iran, Pakistan will nuke him!

America has no business getting involved.

And the MAGA ARSEHOLE announcing that he will NEVER allow Iran to have nuclear weapons is just adding fuel on the fire!

EVERY country should strive to develop nuclear weapons, as long as America has them!

They are the only country which has ever used them!

I know, I know, DEATH TO AMERICA!!!!

Tireing old man, tireing......

.

quote:

In have no idea why. But every time I disagree with you, and many times when I dont, you attack me with stupid shit. Even blaming me for stuff Nakihunter said.

Its just a leftist thing......racist quit working......when they are losing an argument they turn to personal attacks......

Things will get crazier before we can see any peace. All the current leaders will probably have past on but maybe the next generation can have a possibility of relative peace amongst very diverse people and interests. I can’t see the Mullah’s maintaining power anymore. Hopefully that is a good thing for the people of Iran. Hopefully the people of Israel can not live in existential peril. I hope to visit Israel in my lifetime.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

In have no idea why. But every time I disagree with you, and many times when I dont, you attack me with stupid shit. Even blaming me for stuff Nakihunter said.

Its just a leftist thing......racist quit working......when they are losing an argument they turn to personal attacks......

we are always the leftie of someone ... insulting started from the so called right wing lol ... funny to see you supporting a new war while you supreme leader said and promoted no more wars .... for those giving lessons was wonder when israel was given authorization to have nukes ... im pretty sure some countries in the middle east will not agree by those attacks made by usa on a foreign despite not being friends of iran nor of israel but as usual intervention of usa without thinking on the consequences ...

If there is a peaceful transition to a new democratically elected govt in Iran, Netanyahu has already extended the olive branch and probably the US now that we got involved. The big issue is that Russia has lost a big cash cow and how will they react. China will try to take advantage of the situation as well. Geopolitics has been shook. How will Iran escape the influence and corruption that will soon be offered by China and Russia? Will Iran try to be independent of world powers and be a regional power?

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
If there is a peaceful transition to a new democratically elected govt in Iran, Netanyahu has already extended the olive branch and probably the US now that we got involved. The big issue is that Russia has lost a big cash cow and how will they react. China will try to take advantage of the situation as well. Geopolitics has been shook. How will Iran escape the influence and corruption that will soon be offered by China and Russia? Will Iran try to be independent of world powers and be a regional power?

you will accept that only if they are following israel and usa lead ...

If. And it's a big If. The people of Iran instal a new leadership. Because it won't be Israel or the US. The US isn't interested in any of its people dieing, and fair enough too! And Israel isn't big enough to put troops on the ground to effect regime change. So it will come down too the Iranian nations people. I can imagine IFFF it happens then you will see a lot of the expats return with the goal of turning the nation westwards.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
If. And it's a big If. The people of Iran instal a new leadership. Because it won't be Israel or the US. The US isn't interested in any of its people dieing, and fair enough too! And Israel isn't big enough to put troops on the ground to effect regime change. So it will come down too the Iranian nations people. I can imagine IFFF it happens then you will see a lot of the expats return with the goal of turning the nation westwards.

western block will accept only a leader chosen by them not by the iranian people ...

look up the last one chosen by the west in syria ...

palavi son is not the answer for iran but again what the people of iran will choose is certainly not what trump wants lol ...

but we will see he started a war with no approval from the congress ... that is not very democratic from the country ready to give democ racy everywhere else lol

Western Block is not a united group right now. Most of the western world wants peace and an end too all the mayhem on display. Iran is too big with too many soldiers too invade and instal a puppet. I think thew world will be satisfied with any new leadership that simply stops the terrorism sponsorship and conflict creation and moves on.
I dated an Iranian artist and university lecturer for a while. I really hope her vision of what Iran could become, comes true for the Iranian people. Fantastic place full of history and academic excellence and from what Ive seen, wonderful friendly people.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Western Block is not a united group right now. Most of the western world wants peace and an end too all the mayhem on display. Iran is too big with too many soldiers too invade and instal a puppet. I think thew world will be satisfied with any new leadership that simply stops the terrorism sponsorship and conflict creation and moves on.
I dated an Iranian artist and university lecturer for a while. I really hope her vision of what Iran could become, comes true for the Iranian people. Fantastic place full of history and academic excellence and from what Ive seen, wonderful friendly people.

you re right they are wonderful people and as usual we have to make the distinction between the people and the leaders of a country but most here supporting the attacks and bombing of iran do not understand that ...

There were enough Iranians who would and could overthrow the Iranian regime for us with minimal support. Or at least, make Iran go crazy trying to fight a Civil War neutralizing them internationally, but no one wanted to do that because Russia on one hand and the fear such a revolt would turn into another extremist wildfire on the other.

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
If. And it's a big If. The people of Iran instal a new leadership. Because it won't be Israel or the US. The US isn't interested in any of its people dieing, and fair enough too! And Israel isn't big enough to put troops on the ground to effect regime change. So it will come down too the Iranian nations people. I can imagine IFFF it happens then you will see a lot of the expats return with the goal of turning the nation westwards.

western block will accept only a leader chosen by them not by the iranian people ...

look up the last one chosen by the west in syria ...

palavi son is not the answer for iran but again what the people of iran will choose is certainly not what trump wants lol ...

but we will see he started a war with no approval from the congress ... that is not very democratic from the country ready to give democ racy everywhere else lol

Presidents are allowed so much room to unilateral action in the international military actions. This is because of their roles as Commander and Chief and head in foreign policy. This limited action is constitutional and not unique.

Congress has passed a few laws to restrict the President concerning the deployment/mobilization of armed forces. Those laws have never been challenged bc Congress has generally went along post Vietnam. That is a frightening idea. Bad policy, and this action maybe bad policy, does not make something unconstitutional.

It looks like there is a strong possibility that materials were taken from the bombed sites. If this is true there is still an existential threat and that means a change of regime is all the more likely now. Satellites have shown many trucks outside the facility before the bombing.

Crazy progressives -- where TOTALLY FINE with Obama not informing Congress when he launched, (checking notes) "Kinetic Military Maneuvers" but wanna cry when Trump does it --

Now, look, I know why we don't Tell the Taliban and the Mullahs directly, and why someone might be nervous about telling the terrorists in our midst about surprise military maneuvers.

I've said it before, I am basically against all wars -- regardless of the personal relief that this bombing mission has done, I am against the US being the world police - occasionally the janitor might be okay, though -- compact the trash with FOURTEEN of the largest bunker busters on the planet? Surgical, fine .. Boots on the Ground? NOPE --

Though, I wonder, will they need more than ONE f-18 to sink all that passes for the Iranian Navy?

Well, Crown Prince Reza says he wants to help with the transition government. Will it happen? With the political prison now busted open it’s all the more likely.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Crazy progressives -- where TOTALLY FINE with Obama not informing Congress when he launched, (checking notes) "Kinetic Military Maneuvers" but wanna cry when Trump does it --

Now, look, I know why we don't Tell the Taliban and the Mullahs directly, and why someone might be nervous about telling the terrorists in our midst about surprise military maneuvers.

I've said it before, I am basically against all wars -- regardless of the personal relief that this bombing mission has done, I am against the US being the world police - occasionally the janitor might be okay, though -- compact the trash with FOURTEEN of the largest bunker busters on the planet? Surgical, fine .. Boots on the Ground? NOPE --

Though, I wonder, will they need more than ONE f-18 to sink all that passes for the Iranian Navy?

I never understood the threat to close the Straights of Hormuz. Yeah, please put the majority of your bath tub kriegsmarine in one place. Ducks on the pond comes to mind.

Iran has an assortment of anti ship missiles from old Chinese silk worm copies to reverse engineered modern Chinese sea skimming long range cruise missiles with a range of 100k+. They don't need to be fired from ships ...

The pinch point where Oman sticks out into the straits is pretty narrow. Tankers move slowly and are big targets. Even 2 guys in a rib with a couple of RPG's would be sufficient. Iran also has subs and could just lay mines.

If only 15% of the worlds oil is perevnthed from getting through there its really going to push up the oil price.

You are not wrong on If, but I do not believe Iran can prevent the U.S. from making that if into a no.

quote:

Originally posted by nute:
Iran has an assortment of anti ship missiles from old Chinese silk worm copies to reverse engineered modern Chinese sea skimming long range cruise missiles with a range of 100k+. They don't need to be fired from ships ...

The pinch point where Oman sticks out into the straits is pretty narrow. Tankers move slowly and are big targets. Even 2 guys in a rib with a couple of RPG's would be sufficient. Iran also has subs and could just lay mines.

If only 15% of the worlds oil is perevnthed from getting through there its really going to push up the oil price.

But I wonder even with their backs against the wall, if they would start sinking tankers
Fair question though as everything in this conflict depends on IF
It’s so sad, that country so rich in ancient and modern culture and so much mineral wealth and they squander everything on some tyrannical belief of their own idiotic interpretation of Koran and rule people damn near like slaves
What a sad country
Any dissent and you and all your family is a toast
Fuck me…

2 frigates, some speed boats, and fixed emplacement missiles? Back to my original question..1 f18 or 2?

Or a squadron of marine a6's? The a6 would carry on after feet wet

Jeff is most correct. I would personally beg Iran to do that. That would be the first and last time, and much better than a few alternatives I can think of.

The only way Iran could keep the Straights closed is from the wreckage of their dead aluminum, welded John boat of a navy being sunk and immovable.

Seems there is a possible cease fire. Israel said it wanted to get rid of the ballistic missile threat and nuke threat while hoping of a regime change but Trump seems to want to keep the mullets in place to make a peace plan. Trump wanted to get rid of the nuke threat but I feel the can is just kicked down the road since there is about 1000 lbs of 60% urine ium on the lose and we don’t know about clandestine centrifuges. Iran could make a nuke within a few years with the mullets in control. They now have the reason to speed to a nuke. If there is a regime change the nook program could be stopped completely. I don’t like war but I also want peace for future generations. Seems like Trump has decided that the devil we know is better. So for now the mullets will hold power unless there is a popular uprising. This opportunity for a popular uprising has not happened since the revolution. We will see what the people want. Do they want freedom? I hope so for the sake of the region and not having the death by 1000 cuts in terrorism. A free Iran is a good thing imho. The mullets were beat within an inch of their lives and now the choice is with the people of Iran. I pray for freedom, cooperation and prosperity for all involved.

There really needs to be regime change, but if the US or Israel forces it, it won't resonate. It needs to come from the Iranian people. The majority want it, but they are unarmed, so we need to help them, but should not attempt to impose our will. Need to be careful though and I've seen incredible restraint in not taking out the "supreme leader". He needs to be gone but that has to be a decision by Iranians and cannot be made a martyr. Maybe we need to take out the Iranian military or arm the people, but the choice should be theirs and they are ready for a change.