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| One of Us |
The 30/06AI pushes bullets at 300 win mag velocities plain and simple If that was true, then man did not land on the moon and I may as well read fairy tales rather than follow my interests in rockets and the space program. Mike | |||
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one of us |
Big Stick, OK, Lets go down the KODIAK road one more time...............Your memory must be failing you, because as mention before you might know some of my really good bear hunting friends in KODIAK & GEE!!! They all must have missed the book that said only shot needed on a half dead bear - No thanks buddy! I keep shooting until there is no life - I have nothing to prove to you, nor anyone else - This was bear that I wanted - I would stop right there until you've walk in another man's shoes. | |||
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| <ovis> |
CK If the bear satisfies you then "nuff said." Just curious; has anyone ever gone hunting and had the trip ruined because they forgot their ammunition and couldn't find any at the back country store or in the can at the cabin. Just curious....................and this IS a great time of year to get OUT in the bush and call a coyote or lynx.........good health and HUNTING to all of you...................................... | ||
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| one of us |
The only reasons the 30.06 is not my first choice is because of my location and the game I chose to pursue. I enjoy hunting bear (see handle), both black and brown, moose caribou, sheep and goat. I hike into the mountains here and invariably, my chosen path starts along a salmon stream. I simply am more confident in my .338 Win mag. I realize that the 30.06 could take all of the above; my father acomplished that feat before the 60's were over. I hope this reply was a little closer to the intent of the original poster; however, I would guess that part of the reason for posing this type of question was to see an inflamed group of responses brought forth. If that was the case, my post is booring, and I did'nt follow suit.  best, bhtr | |||
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| <sure-shot> |
Geez, all this talk about bar hunting and still 8mos to go!(For me that is)You guys argue about 7-08 vs 30-06 and bar season is just a few mos away!(For you Alaska tramps anyways) Must be cabin fever! Gotta be!  | ||
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| one of us |
Thanks for the backhanded compliment, John. :mrgrn: I think you kind of said it all, and, I guess, as you said, take your pick. I can't think of the 30-06 as a heavy recoil rifle... Way to easy to bench. But, as you said, each to their own... gs ------------------ | |||
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| one of us |
Yea, I suggest you guys put on the brakes a little, when it comes to busting on an animal a man chooses to take. I took a 65lb doe this year with my 50cal muzzle loader. Tasted damn good too. If you wouldn't shoot that I say thanks for saving her for me! Also I agree with allen that the 30-06AI is a waist of time, just get the 300win mag.
"Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything." Genesis 9:3 [This message has been edited by Mark G (edited 02-16-2002).] | |||
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| <Big Stick> |
I submit one doesn't chase Brown Bear,for tablefare............. | ||
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| one of us |
quote: Why, | |||
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| <sure-shot> |
I came darn close to building an 06AI. Why you may ask? Well I had a long action in 06 boltface, I also wanted a light gun for hunting in the timber for elk and bear which could handle 200gr Partitions. I could have just went with the std version and been fine. But then the 'smith said he would swap me bolts so I said goodbye 06 and hello magnum 30-338. I think I will be more happy with this round.  sure-shot | ||
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| one of us |
Do I sense the masses are tiring of "he who knows all?" | |||
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| one of us |
Well BS where is your proven "accuracy edge" the 708 has on the 30-06 in hunting weight rifles? Why are you comparing manuel 06 loads that are rated to work in autoloaders? Why glorify the 708 when the 7x57 is a better round anyway? If you are trying to prove the 708 is a better elk rifle than the 06 your nuts. Got a tumor growing in your head? | |||
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| <sure-shot> |
Rickt300, Tell me how the 7X57 is better than the 7-08. It may handle the 160-175gr better but that is 06 territory right? sure-shot | ||
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| <Big Stick> |
bearhunt'r, I couldn't rate "form". But Brownies(as you surely know) are one of the few critters,that the law doesn't mandate the meat be harvested,in the State of Alaska(Wolves another). Though certainly edible,you wouldn't have to look too hard,to improve upon it. But that is subjective............ rickt300, The 7mmMauser is another long action cartridge. I'd rather have a 280 or 280AI. If the Mauser excites you,have at it. You dispute there is zero mechanical accuracy edge,inherent to the 7-08/308,as compared to the '06? I said it would take a capable rifle,to discern it,but those rifles exist. I've a couple of each. Were you to want one,they are certainly available and not hard to find or build. I saw no stipulation in any Reloading Manual that stated: "The following 30-06 data is for autoloaders". Have you? Further,I have not seen on a single box of Factory 30-06 ammo,a designation that states,"This ammo is for autoloaders specifically". The autos can certainly handle the pressures. They are routinely chambered for high intensity chamberings,their design isn't a weak link,as attested to by the BAR in particular(7mmRemmag,300Winny,338Winmag). I didn't glorify the 7-08,simply related a portion of readily available data,that is all in consensus. The 30-06 is not a Hot Rod,neither are the 7-08/308. I never said the 7-08 was better than anything. I mentioned it is a very capable cartridge,that is superbly accurate and of mild recoil. While offering plenty of performance for most situations. Same goes the 308. In an event where they are deemed "not enough",the 30-06 simply will not up the ante enough,to make it vastly superior choice or a cure all. I felt I was fairly plain and concise in my relating that. Will it help you,if I slow down? You are not reading things,as I wrote them. But are trying to put words in my mouth. It's all there in black and white. Should you take issue with something,I'll happily clarify................ [This message has been edited by Big Stick (edited 02-17-2002).] | ||
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Big Stick: I agree with your last post. However, as I've said earlier, if Elk bears aren't in the picture, the 223 is plenty, don't you think, for deer? gs ------------------ | |||
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| <Big Stick> |
I've killed a lot of Deer with a 223 and rather like it. If you can heed it's limitations,it will work nicely,like most anything else. There are lots of very useful cartridges available today. I find the 7-08 to work well on eveything I've ever pointed one at. A rifle is no better than the guy using it. I've seen hordes,that aren't good with anything. That is the most important part of the equation,but the first to be dismissed. I never understood that................ | ||
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| one of us |
Well Stick I have seen loads stipulated for autoloaders under 06 data and in fact most manuals list loads acceptable in low number springfields and the M1 Garand. Thanks for telling me what I already know the 7x57 is better than the 708, heavier bullets or not. 30-06 country well here we have a confession that the 06 is a more capable round than the 708 as is the 7x57. Your losing ground Stick. What is your obsession with short actions? The ability to seat bullets out near the rifling is a plus. About accuracy in capable rifles, the 06 is still routinely used in 1000 yard matches and the 708 only gets honorable mention from Yahoos like you. | |||
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| <Big Stick> |
rickt300, The Garand is certainly the most sensitive auto,of the lot. It is propellant sensitive. The ONLY mention of autos,from the current printing of manuals on my shelf,is in the possible need for small base dies,to ensure function. Most would understand that. Caution is also called for,in understanding the reduced capacity of mil-spec brass and their influences upon increased pressure levels. Nothing on the Garand,BAR or Rem autos. I don't know that the 7x57 is "better" than a 7-08. It is simply a bastard round. Bastard,because it holds a whopping 2.5grs in capacity increase,over the 7-08. For that satisfaction,you are relegated to shooting a long action. The 7x57 is the most anemic .284" offering,that requires a long action,there must be some hidden satisfaction in that? Make mine a 280 or 280AI as I mentioned prior. If the Mauser excites you,have at it. You could build a long action 223 also,but I prefer mine to be the short version.
If I'm going o have a long action,it will be for a reason,other than to house a cartridge that mimics performance of an existing short action cartridge. Throat geometry,is an issue seperate,from mag box constraints. You can have it the way you like it,if a specific combo doesn't suit you. Yahoos like me,know the 7-08/308 to have an accuracy advantage. I wouldn't be bragging,that you see it differently.............. | ||
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| <john holmes> |
The 7x57 is a bastard round. Big stick,how did you live this long. You have to be the stupidest motherfucker on this forum,you are without peer. | ||
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SO I expect the 7-08 is the best bear medicine out there and it would only take one round out of the trusty '08 to kill most big brownies? Thanks but when I go up against a brownie it will be with a 375 or a 416. The '06 would be the bare bones minimum for big bears. But then again I guess I am just a pantywaste. The 7x57 was killing stuff 50 years or better before the 308(the 7-08's precourser) was thunk up. Yeah the 7-08 is a great round and I did own one once. It was a 18 inch barreled model 7. Shot great but kicked like the devil. Stung more than my 300 winnie. I do like the 375 for most everything. Things just seem to die very rapidly. Oh by the way, Socrates, If you want cheap shooting in the 375, Lock stock and barrel has Hornaday blems for around a hundred bucks a thou. Good shooting to all in 30-06,7-08, or whatever rounds you choose. Aint it great to have so many choices? "D" | |||
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| <Big Stick> |
john holmes, Though another colorful tirade,just what was it that you failed to understand? The 7Mauser's case is longer than the 7-08. It is not comfortably housed within most short actions. Your contention is what? That you didn't know that?............... DHunter, Were you to read,you'd plainly see that in my humble opinion,neither the 7-08/308 or '06 is good Brown Bear medicine. Further stated,that the 338Ultra and 375H&H Ackley were my choices. Vertical stringing is indicative of a bedding problem and could have likely been cured easily,both in your 7-08 and the Winny. I buy the LS&B .375" 270gr Hornady SP's,by the bushel. I could never discern either visually or by weight,that they were "seconds". They are a superb buy............. | ||
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Let's see here one party in contention has offered facts easily referenced in published data. Which from what I have read haven't been proven wrong. The other party or parties have stooped to name calling, cursing, and oft repeated rhetoric. After many solicitations this party still has not provided any proof discounting the fuigures given by the aforementioned party. Let's see......who is stupid???? Mike ------------------ | |||
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P.S I would expect a little better from a cop.... ------------------ | |||
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| one of us |
A cop?That explains his behavior.They just aren't used to being told anything by anyone. [This message has been edited by stubblejumper (edited 02-18-2002).] | |||
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| one of us |
Big Stick: You and I are pretty much of similar mind. A number of rounds, between 223, and 30-06 are sufficent for deer. The less the calber, the better the meat yield, and, if it's 223, the cheaper the ammo. I really think we need to end at 30-06, for bear, and elk. Elk, who cares? Bear eat you, if you can't stop em, so, 375 is really a min for DG, and bear are, at close range, dg. End discussion. gs ------------------ | |||
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| one of us |
quote: Amen to that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! best, | |||
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| <Ol' Sarge> |
I would not. I could not ever say no to an -06. While some are faster, some bigger, some (lots) newer, some flashier, some louder, some flatter, some whatever, the simple truth is it'll get the job done 99% of the time in the hands of a guy who knows what he's doing where there are lots of the faster, bigger, newer, etc that won't. ------------------ | ||
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| new member |
quote:
John Holmes: What, by gawd, makes Big Stick the stupidest motherfucker on this forum in his statement that the 7x57 is a 'bastard round'. It's a very well known fact in the rifle building and shoooting community that it is called a 'bastard round'. As BS stated the 2.5 grain increase does nothing except limit the shooter to long action receivers! That makes it a 'bastard round'. It shoots well, but there are better. I would get into it deeper if I felt you could comprehend basic cartridge design engineering, and the pretense behind limiting yourself to a long action with a longer case length when a shorter cartridge in a short action will do the job as effectively and more efficiently, ballistically as well as ergonomically, hah. Big Stick did not knock the 7x57 round, it's been used for many years with great results, but nevertheless, it is a bastard round. As far as Big Stick being 'without peer', he has one for sure, me. I think if you continue this STUPID attack on his credibility, you will soon find you are the one without. And as of that last statement, I hope there are none of your peers on this forum, I couldn't stand that much ignorance in a day. JR | |||
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| <Big Stick> |
JR, Obliged,but it takes quite a bit more than a 3rd Grade rant,to ruffle my feathers. Some folks,despite the most simplistic approach,can't grasp anything. The beat goes on.............
[This message has been edited by Big Stick (edited 02-19-2002).] | ||
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| one of us |
WoW!!! seems this thread is overpressured. All the calibers and loads mentioned and none of them can shoot thru a 5 gallon bucket of sand like my little bow and arrow can. ------------------ | |||
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| <john holmes> |
What the standard length action does for the 7x57,is allow it to use the heavier bullets without having to seat them so deeply,that they eat into powder capacity. All the 7-08 does,is operate at higher pressures to achieve the same performance as the 7x57 and when the bullets get heavier,the 7x57 has an advantage. The same thing is happening with the .300 wsm,you have people building them on standard actions,so they can take advantage of heavier bullets. As for big stick,anyone who takes the 06 and purposely gives out load data,that anybody can beat with factory ammo and can easily beat with reloads,just so he can show some kind of comparison to the 7-08.Then he shows loads for the 7-08 which require custom barrel lengths to achieve that level of performance. If that isn't a stupid motherfucker,what is ? As for you considering him one of your peers.Obviously you're a stupid fucker also. | ||
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| <sure-shot> |
Holms, Count me in as a certified member of the st-p-d mo-th-r fu--ers club also! Are you a deputy dog, streetbeat or a fish cop? Just curious. sure-shot | ||
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| <Big Stick> |
john holmes, For the umpteenth time,please present the data that you deem as "real". Beings I purposely skewed things,with some fantastic slight of hand. You must figure I own all the Corporate ammunition facilities and Publish all Reloading Manuals and have infinite control over both? Though I'd happily Hunt on the proceeds,it ain't so. That you cannot fathom the basics of ballistics,is noone else's fault. You are on a multi-day rant,because you can't comprehend that a 7-08 is an efficient case and doesn't lose 700fps going from 24",to 22". On another rant,because published data,is where I got ALL velocities/energies and trajectories mentioned. You aren't happy comparing like barrel lengths,aren't happy with differing barrel lengths,aren't happy with published Factory ammo data,aren't happy with published Reloading Manual data and don't seem able to be made happy,when asked to produce conflicting data of your own choosing. Then you make brash claims of ballistics know how,then IMMEDIATELY offer conflicting claims,to substantiate your ignorance? Your case capacity arguement,is the king of comedy. The 30-06AI gives away Let me guess? Besides being a cop,you are short too? And are pretty mad about that,as well??!!??................. | ||
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| one of us |
This thread isn't even worth the time required to post on it. It's almost as bad as the matchking thread.
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| <Big Stick> |
Did Mr.holmes,find a new handle?............. | ||
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| <john holmes> |
The languageisn't the best,but it does fit you big stick. Now you're trying to pin this rmk guy on me. You really are a stupid fucker. | ||
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| one of us |
Hmmm. I will say that my day at the range was a bit more fun then the keyboard... gs | |||
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| <Big Stick> |
john holmes, "Pin" is seperate,from opining an assumption. Sharpen your pencil and hit the books. I'll be very curious to hear your findings,that are of significant differences,than data I mentioned. Glad your comedic styling,is yet intact......... | ||
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| <Big Stick> |
john holmes, BEINGS YOU FAILED TO ADRESS THESE ISSUES (I figured you needed a repeat) john holmes, For the umpteenth time,please present the data that you deem as "real". Beings I purposely skewed things,with some fantastic slight of hand. You must figure I own all the Corporate ammunition facilities and Publish all Reloading Manuals and have infinite control over both? Though I'd happily Hunt on the proceeds,it ain't so. That you cannot fathom the basics of ballistics,is noone else's fault. You are on a multi-day rant,because you can't comprehend that a 7-08 is an efficient case and doesn't lose 700fps going from 24",to 22". On another rant,because published data,is where I got ALL velocities/energies and trajectories mentioned. You aren't happy comparing like barrel lengths,aren't happy with differing barrel lengths,aren't happy with published Factory ammo data,aren't happy with published Reloading Manual data and don't seem able to be made happy,when asked to produce conflicting data of your own choosing. Then you make brash claims of ballistics know how,then IMMEDIATELY offer conflicting claims,to substantiate your ignorance? Your case capacity arguement,is the king of comedy. The 30-06AI gives away Let me guess? Besides being a cop,you are short too? And are pretty mad about that,as well??!!??................. | ||
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