Shut the fuck up.
gs

gs

Performance-wise, if you can handle the recoil there is nothing it can do that a 300 magnum can't do better--just don't use cheap bullets!--and (again, if you can handle the recoil) when conditions aren't "perfect" the extra velocity will make it more accurate for long shots as well as hitting harder when it gets there.

Soc,

How many big game animals have you taken with your '06 and how did it perform in each case? I'd really like to hear some first-hand experience from someone such as yourself....

Yes I was an Earnhardt fan before most even knew what he did for a living.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dogger:
This post explores the reasons why the 30-06 is not your first choice of a hunting rifle for big game.

It asks you to share with us the specific reasons why you choose another caliber/bullet combination for your hunting needs. If you ain't givin' us specifics, you are missing the intent of this post.

I have been avoiding purchasing a 30-06 for 10 years, because "everyone has one" and "I want to be different" and the "30-06 is jack of all trades but master of none".

Hence, I have dabbled with the 7x57, the 6.5x55, and the 30-30 (OK, everyone has a 30-30!) Now, I only hunt white tails and black bear. Maybe someday I will get to hunt sheep, wild hogs, elk, moose, or antelope...

But darned if I ain't now thinking that I could do anything I will ever do in the lower 48 states with a 180 grain Nosler in a good shooting Mauser action 30-06... And jeez, if I forget my handloads, I can find 30-06 ammo in old coffee cans in abandoned cabins!!

---

Because I CAN!!
We are all spoiled?

The 06 is so out dated they should have a 30-06 only season like they have for the black powder guys.

Jason

Why? I can enjoy a bit of obscene language. Kind of spices up the day for me.

ZeroDrift has about as much affect on me as a pimple on my ass.

After living in the politically correct capital of the world, it's fun to be able to tell an ass to screw himself, or worse.

I live in a world where I can't tell some little 8th grade punk to go fuck himself, or call him outside when he hurts and abuses other children. I have to be very careful to do the proper steps to deal with such 'inocent' children. I'm sure Zerodrift has a number of scum bag children, that like to abuse other children, and screw with other people, at least from his posts in this forum.

So, what's a little obscene language, focused at some bigoted fool?

gs

I find it odd, that the on one topic, where I have owned and used a 30-06 for 25 years, he accuses me of lacking experience.

I have used many rifles, in a variety of calibers, and bench tested shotgun sabot rounds for the patent owner. I've also reloaded extensively, alebit a while ago.

But I guess that is not enough for ZeroDrift.

Anyway, my apology to those who my language offended.

I subbed at a pretty much Ghetto school yesterday, and that put me on a bit of a short fuse yesterday.

Again, my sincere apologies to those I have offended.
gs

I tend to side with those desiring slightly flatter trajectory, which along with the recommendation of several folks whom I respect highly, led me to my favorite caliber of those currently in my safe: the 308 Norma.

I don't know about where others hunt but where I hunt I can't even find the mom and pop shops that have the 50 year old dust covered '06 rounds that everybody seems to need on their expensive hunting trips as the mom and pop shops have all gone out of business. I have to drive over 30 miles into town where KMart no longer has anything, Wal-Mart has a reasonable selection, and there are still several sporting goods stores with pretty good selections. Sorry, I just have a problem with those that would chose a caliber based on the statistically poor chance of being on the hunting grounds with everything needed except ammo. Where that would come into play is on trips requiring air travel should baggage be lost. Personally I would ship ammo ahead and not rely on the airline carrying little old me. Even on air travel hunting trips the chances are one would be after something at least as big as a deer which then reminds me that I've read ad-nauseum posts extolling the virtues of calibers bigger than '06...I guess I'm just a little pessimistic today.

A few thoughts on the manners of the forum. Being a gun owner I don't generally like being told what to do so I'm not about to tell someone else what they should do so consider the following suggestions. In the era of electronic communications I have a rule of thumb where I don't hit the send button until I'm comfortable with the thought of the recipient sending that very document to my bosses email account where it's currently being read by my bosses eight year old child...of course if everyone had a thicker skin it wouldn't be a problem...except for the eight year old. Finally, regarding the internet, assume 90% of what you read is B$ until proven otherwise.

Reed

However, discipline is very difficult. Since I have a Juris Doctorate degree, I am fully aware of the legal problems with teaching in schools, and the law suits that are filed by parents against teachers.

The problems of excessive force are combined with my long, and substantial martial arts and boxing back ground. If I was attacked, and really hurt one of the kids, I would face possible criminal charges, just as if I had used a gun, and civil filings would be a problem, as well.

I had a kid throw a pen at my head yesterday, just missing, as I saw it out of the corner of my eye.

I was pretty sure who did it, but didn't actually see him in the act, and, since the assembly was over in 5 minutes, it would have been difficult to nail him for it.

I would have had to have one of the principals come over, detain, and question the other kids in the area, get evidence that he threw the pen, and then have him suspended.

I was about to proceed along this course of action, when a fight broke out between a Mexican girl, and a black girl, and, that
sort of made my problem unimportant.

All of this occured in a gym, filled with kids.

Frankly, from my experience, all teachers should be off duty police officers, or attorneys, or both, and all should have concealed carry permits.

While the majority of the children are ok, it only takes a couple really bad ones to put other children, and your life, at risk.

I also referee basketball games, from 3 rd grade up to high school.

I enjoy this. Despite the occassional bad parent, I'm very fair and even, and, when I have a bad kid in the game, I can foul them out quickly, or eject them, period. Unlike a classroom, where if you have a problem child you can't handle, it's a reflection on you, and your competence, not the child, or the childs parents.

I did take a bit of joy in refeeing a game yesterday, by myself, since the other guy didn't show up, and I had two groups of girls that where playing plenty of dirty tricks on each other. Tripping, kneeing, throwing elbows into each others breasts, etc.

It's a wonderfully clean situation in basketball, and very satisfying, when you catch the kid in the act, and can nail them for it, and embarass them, in front of fans, and other people. I believe this sort of
action is a very constructive step in child development, since, in our liberal society, I see many children that rather then being disciplined hard the first time, get a slap on the wrist, and continue on the same path.

I spent 6 months working for a local district attorney's office, and, had the chance to see the results of our liberal policies, career criminals, with 20 page rap sheets, that finally, sometimes, get nailed, on three strikes, ending up in prison for 25 to life.

I like to think that if as children, they had been identified, and addressed, they would be less likely to have gone into that field of crime.

On the otherhand, we do get bad dogs, that, from an early age, bite, and are violent.
We put those down, early. Perhaps the same problem, and approach, should be taken with criminals...

Some people are just born, genetically, bad, and violent.

gs

My only point has been - address the issues being discussed on the forum. IF you have an original thought or actual experience, please feel free to respond. Socrates, you, on the other hand, have not let your total lack of knowledge get in the way of your comments. This fact is also painfully aware to many other folks on this site judging from the supportive E-Mails that I have received.

When I pointed this out, you resorted to calling me names, calling me a liar, twisting the truth, and belittling my children. I find this all quite humorous, however, my point still stands - please feel free to respond to threads �IF� you have something positive to contribute. Simply parroting what you have read on this forum is a waste of everyone�s time and makes you look ridiculous.

There was no motivation to get into a pissing match with you or to single you out. There have been other occasions on this forum where I or someone else pointed the same situation out to a member. Until you, everyone got the message and complied... It�s an open forum and all of us wish to keep it this way. I certainly don�t want to turn this into HA or any other site.

I have said my peace. I apologize that you felt that I was attacking you personally. You can say what ever in hell you wish to say about me or any subject matter on this forum. I can assure you if you keep it up, someone else will tell you the same thing. I guess I had the distinction of being the first to say something to you. Lucky F�ing Me.

This is a serious situation as the education of our children is very important.

Now, back to the 30-06 vrs the .270...........

Zero-drift: Who made you the one to write the rules regarding how people should post? You seem to be saying that if people aren't responding to posts in the way you see most efficient, they are being assholes...whereupon you act like an authorative figure..especially in regard to So-crates. Why don't you just ignore it if you don't like it, and stop telling him how to respond just because you don't like him. I guess you go way out of your way to rally people against so-crates, based on what you said about all the support you get in emails. That's pretty lame. I guess you have nothing better to do though...

Yours most sincerely, J

See, I believe in the dialectic process, that by raising ideas, and discussing them, with different people, you come up with a better idea then is currently avaliable.

I find it odd that one has to have an original idea, to be of value to contribute to anything. I guess you don't believe in schools? None of the teachers present, as a general rule, have original knowledge, and very few have original ideas, of some of the situations discussed. None the less, schools use the same tool, the dialectic process, to discuss issues and ideas that are valid, and come up with better ideas.

I guess you shouldn't really be talking about PETA at all, since what you want to do, and your personal experience, is contrary to theirs.

The facts are pretty much you are just being intolerant of ideas, or positions, that aren't yours. Your posts in other PETA threads have made this abundantly clear.

I guess it's from teaching school, but the kid that cries wolf, accussing someone else of injuring him, or doing something he shouldn't be doing, is usually the one that is the source of the problem, and doing exactly what they accuse the other person of doing.

I prefer to often look at an issue from both sides, try and find what is motivating the people involved, and usually find that either side has a few valid points, usually lost in dogmatic extremism.

Your presentation, and your attempt to silence my comments, and learning experience here is just that, dogmatic extremism.

If I didn't know better, I would suggest you must be a Peta member, since liberals are the ones that usually preach tolerance, only if you completely agree with thier agenda, and, if you don't, they will cut your nuts off, and try and silence you anyway they can, with no morality, or ethics, involved in their attempts to silence your position.

I find this sort of, you can do anything you want to do, as long as you agree with me intolerance particularly offensive.

As for original ideas, I come up with them all the time, as results of taking wise people's opinions on matters, mulling them over, looking at both sides carefully, and integrating my own ideas and perspectives into theirs.

Other times, I just don't know what the situation is, and, thanks to asking questions, many here have taken the time to
answer those questions.

I've learned tons about what is considered ethical hunting from Alf, and the nature of
game hunting in Africa, and how it has become
a viable source of income for corrupt governments, and that income is the only thing keeping them from poaching all their own animals.

I've learned quite a bit here, and I guess the penalty is that you don't like me, and, you don't like the issues or questions I raise, and, you don't like being embarassed when you attack what I say, and I reference it to comments from other forum members here.

If you don't like what I say, don't respond, because I promise you, you are not going to
limit my quest for knowledge, and, this forum is nothing if not a great source of knowledge.

Because of your comments, and prior posts, you have little, if any credibility with me, so, it's unlikely I'm likely to believe anything you have to say, since it's clear your attempts to follow me around, and comment about all of the comments I make in the forum is something I would expect of a 3rd grader.

So, if you have really shot buffalo, the only way you are going to convince me is either pictures, or at least some sort of reasonable account. In your case, it's going to require evidence to convince me that you have ever done anything you claim, since you are attacking me on that basis.

Most likely, if that's what you claim, much as my 8th grade kids act, if they are the one pointing the finger, you usually look for the source of the problem on the end of the finger, the other end.

What I find really strange is that most people who are really good at something, enjoy sharing their knowledge about what they do, and how they do it.

With few exceptions, that appears to be the case in this forum.

I am unlikely to ever fire on a Cape Buffalo, except in self-defense, but, that doesn't mean I can't appreciate the thrill of the hunt others experience. I've been reading about that sort of thing since second grade, and used to devour everything I could find on Africa, in any library that was close.

I find Corbett's books on India, and maneaters fascinating, and, Bell's books as well. Many other great authors, O'Conner, etc. have shared their opinions, and experience, and are not diminished because they are posted again by others in this forum.
Likewise, the wise people here, are just that, and, repeating their posts does not make doing so invalid, worthless, etc.

But, that's just my opinion, and if you desire, you can certainly follow me all over the forum, and post snide little comments to try and degrade the bit of credibility I do have. That would certainly be in character.

gs

Sorry Jon.
Only experience I have is hearsay.

My friend perfered using a 308, M1A, with his own handloads on deer.
Less recoil, and near the same velocity.

I do love venision, just not really the one that wants to pull the trigger.

By the way, he was an excellent shot, and rarely, if ever, did the deer go far...

He also used Matchkings on deer, usually 168 grain boat tails, and they worked great.

gs

That I don't use it much has to do more with wanting to use other cartridges than with not wanting to use the .30-06. I can only shoot one at a time, and to shoot the others means not shooting the .30-06.

I never have had a .30-30, I never will have a .30-30, I don't even think about .30-30s. Yuk.

------------------
BigBob

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BigBob

[This message has been edited by BigBob (edited 02-07-2002).]

1 - Eland
2 - Caribou
1 - Mountain Reedbuck
1 - Common Reedbuck
1 - Waterbuck
2 - Kudus
2 - Zebras
1 - Gemsbok
1 - Warthog
1 - Red Hartebeest

and a little guy... 1 - Steenbok

It worked for me and was not boring at all!

------------------
~Ann
Orion Trophy Expeditions

------------------
Endeavor to Persevere

1. Very common/popular - useful when shopping for a new/used rifle.

2. Everyone makes ammo for it - that means you have a wide variety to choose from, it is easily found, and it is inexpensive.

3. Will kill ANYTHING in North America, and will do it quite handily without those DAMNED expensive premium bullets the Magnums seem to require.

4. Bragging rights - you can feel confident and secure knowing you have THE BEST all around North American Caliber when you consider ammunition availability, cost, selection, and recoil for killing power tradeoff. Use your '06 with pride.....I do.

5. It works.

quote:

---

Originally posted by BBBruce:
Wait until you are back of beyond somewhere, you need ammo, and you're in the parking lot of the only store in 500 road miles wondering if they can help you. If you're packing an '.06, they can.

---

I've never seen any backwoods store that didn't have .270win, and 30-30 ammo too!

I think Jim Carmichel said it best: "There's no shortage of all-purpose rifles - Where are the all-purpose hunters?"

There's no magic to the .30-06: There are any number of cartridges that will do all that it will do, plus a good deal more.

If you can afford to hunt "anything" in North America, you can surely afford to employ premium bullets that will work under all circumstances. A "step-over-a-dollar-to-pick-up-a-dime" mindset is the height of folly when it comes to hunting.........

AD

There are trade offs on everything. Consider the 7mm Rem Mag vrs the 06 and bullet weight availablity. To take really big boned game at less than 200 yards the 30-06 with a 200 gr Nosler Partition is more gun (my opinion) than a 7mm Rem Mag.

Not only that but the much lower cost and lower recoil (in equal guns) means that the 06 owner may practice more and aim better as a consequence.

If I were facing a Brown Bear up close I would pick a 06 over a 7 Mag anyday. They even hold more shots!

Every one of Stubbles arguments can be turned against him. Use what you want. I like the 06 a lot. I like it as much as all the other cartridges. And it is just right most of the time.