I really does not matter much what cartridge shoots a given bullet and the 30-06 is the most popular for the purpose of propelling game bullets.

On this board we have some real enthusiasts for esoteric cartridges but if you said to the the great majority of hunters "Your 06 is no good any more. You need a .300 WSM" the response would be "huh"

That has never been disputed,by me. My contention is simple and easy to understand:

Given the advancements in munitions and arms,the '06 is no longer the Regal choice. Though it's popularity has swayed little,there are numerous other advancements that are equally capable,if not superior.

Those offerings needn't be kept aside and brandished solely in War.

It is a cartridge of simple means,who's strengths have passed and is with us today,only as as a Historic excersize. Though serving a distinct purpose,for a long while,that role has disappeared and is no longer required.

She's Yesterday's Wine.........

Lot's of responses came up with all sorts of combinations. Maybe a neat 7-08 (new and cool) or how about a 7mm Remington Mag or bigger yet a .300 Mag (hot and powerful).

In the end the consensus was that a 30-06 bolt rifle with a 22" bbl would be nice to carry all over those hills and if the rifle and hunter ever made it to the Rockies the grand ol 30-06 Springfield would be right at home. Meanwhile the hunter with say a new .300 WSM would not practice much with ammo at $39 a box!

Right now I have 3 30-06's. One of them has not had a chance to kill for me yet. It's a original old M-70 Featherweight. I think I will take it out this year and use it. It's perfect rifle.

Its no magnum, but I think those velocities are adequate for most hunting situations. The key word being "most". Its an old cartridge probably too boring for "most" gunnie types. But when handloaded to modern pressures in a good turnbolt the 06 will get the job done "most" of the time but maybe not all the time especially when the ranges start exceeding 400+ yds on the bigger stuff. sure-shot

That is not much of a Sales Pitch and is rather humorous.

My sole question remains. In what situation will a 30-06 outperform other existing cartridges?..................

Since you seem to have some sort of inside knowledge here. Why don't you let us know which cartrides these are that offer so much more? I would like to know what they offer that the 30-06 doesn't?

If they get a big bore it will be a 338 Win or 375 H&H.

If their interest does not grow, they stay with these calibers.

If there interest grows then they seem to give up these 4 calibers and move on.

But the funny thing is, after many years they return to one these 4 calibers

I am 53 and have have fiddled with guns since a teenager. I had a 270 at 18 and a 375 at 20.

Since then I have had from 6mm/264 to 460 Wby and just about everything in between.

I am now in the process of putting together 4 custom rifles. A stainlesss 375, a blued 375 and the same in 300 H&H.

But the 300 H&H is only there because of the match up for H&H and actions etc. Other wise it would be 270.

Thus I have come right back to where I started and I don't think that is unique to me.

Mike

I shoot the shit out of a couple 25-284's,that offer light weight,superb trajectory and minimal recoil. The '06 can't touch it.

My favorite,is the 257Wby. I've built three searching for perfection. Built a 25-06Ackley to compliment them. I'm quite fond of a Warp Speed 100gr XLC for general duty. It is my staple. The '06 can't touch that performance.

The 7-08 is another favorite. It kills in a manner,that is out of proportion to it's size. Does it with guilt edge accuracy and in a short action. Both nice benefits,that are denied the '06. I rather like this cartridge and have it in light weights,mediums,a Silhouette rifle and a Tactical rifle,plus an XP-100. With the 120/140gr X it is an amazing slayer of Game and deserving of much more respect. It's a Giant Killer and I much favor it over the '06,from Elk on down.

The 308 is legendary in regards to accuracy potential. I've multiple examples in very different configurations. Light weights,with "shortish" barrels,medium weights and a couple "Tactical" rifles. They hit hard,do it with minimal fuss and extreme accuracy,all housed in a short action. The '06 mimics the performance,but lacks the compact package and accuracy attributes. I like the 308 due to cheap ammo,but actually favor the 7-08 on Game.

I've a stable of 7mmRemMags. They offer trajectory the '06 could only dream of and do it with modest recoil. The 120X at 3500fps or 140X at 3250fps,both favorites of mine.

I shoot a multitude of BIG 30's. All housed in long action(of course) and all developing speeds and retained energy levels the '06 could only dream of. I've got them in light,medium and heavy weights. Barrels run the gamut from 24"-30". My bread and butter is the 165gr XLC at 3500fps.

I built a 338Ultra,as a utilitarian rifle for here in Alaska. It is largely without peer,in my estimation. Modest weight,superb energies and suprising trajectories. I favor the 210gr XLC at 3400fps,as an "all arounder".

My 375H&H Ackley's are my choice,for Brown Bear Country. That may change,after I put miles on the 338Ultra. I favor the 270gr XLC,for general duty. The '06 is many chapters back,in a direct comparison.

For lesser game and Vermin,I have a herd of 224 centerfires from K-Hornets to 22CHeetah Mach Ones. All are softer on the shoulder than the '06 and trounce it in trajectory.

I've many in between the examples mentioned. I've Hunted the 30-06 but it really never impressed me,with a single attribute. For that reason,I much prefer numerous other cartridges..................

I dont see what 06 advocates have to be bitter about, it must still be among, if not THE most talked about cartridge(s) in the forum.

Ive seen it said several times that they are the jack of all trades and master of none but I beg to differ. The 30-06 represents the most effective non-magnum 30 cal. you can get. For me it is the perfect happy medium between recoil and energy and I dont know about anyone else here but IMHO that means a lot, isnt that happy medium the reason all our rifle choices are made? Otherwise we would all just get a the most powerfull load available and forget the small details. Also I believe that for Elk-Moose sized game there is nothing better in a non magnum load. It may be a jack of all trades, but its popularity was no mistake.

When venturing into a situation that presents a long shot opportunity,I often tote something that resembles a laser beam in trajectory.

I've quite a fondness for the various 25's,coupled with an X bullet. I was never afraid to try something new and with that in mind,I've stumbled onto more than cartridge that really impressed me.

If the 7-08 isn't up to the task,the 30-06 isn't the supreme solution. I've shot the shit out of both,and feel the 7-08 is more accurate and user friendly.

Lots of great choices out there,it seems foolish to me to base one's choice on bedtime stories and yarns of old. For 97% of situations,the 308 will do what the 30-06 does. For the remaining 3%,you'd be better served with a different class of cartridge. Further,there are many cartridges that operate on the outer limits of '06 capability,without breaking stride. They offer more flexibility and options.

I see the '06 stuck in middle ground and that may suit many. Performance never scared me and I like to keep my options open. For me and those reasons,it is easy to choose an alternate chambering..........

I've grown fond of light for diameter X bullets at Warp Speed. They turn out the lights,like nothing else I've seen or tried.

With speed,comes many nice things. Trajectory for one,energy for two and sensational terminal effects lastly.

I never implied the 30-06 wouldn't work. My contention was simple,in that numerous other chamberings offer like performance as a minimum and many more exceed it. That is obvious.

I'm in the minority,because I don't think killing critters is unduely difficult. I'm a proponent of lots of practice,good bullets and placement. I find a fast stepping cartridge makes those things easier to do. The 257Wby is utterly unbelieveable in regards to on Game performance. It recoils less than a 30-06,shoots amazingly flatter and punishes Game in a way few other cartridges can.

So it isn't the endless pursuit of chasing rainbows,with unrealistic expectations for me. I find most guys are unwilling to deviate from the "norm" and are quick to denounce such practices,despite having zero firsthand experience with am alternate method. They are fond of repeating the stories that were told to them,without the formulation of their own opinion.

If you can get more,for less,why not realize it? "Joe Average" has minimal experience,with cartridges that deviate from the mainstream. Despite that,he's quick to comment on the "best" choice.

I shoot a lot and always with an open mind,always hoping to learn something. If I can tote a rifle of like weight,that offers me more opportunity,why wouldn't I field it? Because somebody read somewhere,that someone deemed the 30-06 "best"?

It isn't smoke and mirrors,nor Black Magic to field a rifle that offers capabilities the 30-06 can't. The 30-06 is a modest capacity cartridge,it can't be expected to be the end all. It's capacity increase isn't of enough signifigance to readily trump the 7-08/308,nor is it enough to compete with a true long action belted case,the newly introduced Ultra cartridges or their shortened kin. So it sits in the middle and it's attraction to the masses,is lost on me. Had it never been fielded by our Military,it would have minimal appeal.

For shots under 300yds,what is an 06 going to do,that the 280 won't? What is the 280 going to do that a 308 won't? What is the 308 going to do,that a 7-08 won't?

So you needn't tote a rifle with a $17 handle,to get the job done,under most circumstances. There is a plethora of chamberings that will interchange roles nicely. The '06 amongst them.

For a guy who wants more,it is readily available,in many shapes and sizes.............

You keep talking about all the cartridges that will "give you more" than the 06 but your examples such as the 308 and 7-08 give you less: less velocity, less energy, less frontal area, fewer bullet options and fewer rifle options.

As far as accuracy potential there is so little difference between the 30-06 and 308/7-08 in sporting rifles that it will never make any difference in the field.

You seem to like many cartridges that are either faster or slower, larger or smaller, have more energy or less energy than the 30-06. What I can't understand is why you can't see that there is always a give and take when moving from the 30-06 to any other cartridge.

Jason

From your post:

So it sits in the middle and it's attraction to the masses,is lost on me. Had it never been fielded by our Military,it would have minimal appeal.

A very large percentage of gun owners see the rifle as more than a golf club.They see it as a survival tool.

In fact it is this very thing that causes many anti gunners to fail to understand the opposition to gun laws.

Let's for a minute look at the calibers that dominate their respective areas. 270, 30/06, 338 Win and 375 H&H.

Gun owners through their collective experience know that with all the variables that occur, it is difficult to mark up an increase in performance (in the field, not across the chronograph) when you move either side of the 4 calibers I mentioned.

Kind of like cars. From A to B is changed by traffic conditions and the slower car could actually get from A to B quicker than the faster car.

However , reliability is demonstrated much more often.

Have you ever noticed both on the forums and in gun articles how often the "if you only had one rifle etc" topic comes up. And also how big the thread will usually be on the forums.

What both the 30/06 and 375 H&H do, is to give more than adequate results and also offer that "security" feeling. That is when they are wrong, they won't be real wrong.

Calibers like 30/06, 338 and 375 do sit in the middle and that is their attraction.

Perhaps I can give an example to finish up on. You mentioned earlier about having a 338 Ultra made.

OK. Lets us say you came to Australia tomorrow with the 338 Ultra and your mate came with his 30/06 or 338 Win or 375 H&H.

Firstly, for the amount of shooting you would do the ammo you can bring on the plane will be gone in the first day.

So what happens next. Where do you get ammo. You could reload your cases but you will have lost quite a few of them on the first day and certainly a lot on the first night.

Our 30/06, 338 or 375 H&H user has no problems.

In short, what I am trying to say is that many gun owners perceive "security" or "reliability" to a greater degree than you perhaps do and on the other hand you perceive "performance across the chronograph" to a much greater degree than do others.

Mike

Until some really new propellant comes out not much has happended in cartridges since 1885.

Sure the .308W replaces the 30-06 for most purposes but it still can't match the 06 for that first time rifle buyer in W.Va who dreams of elk someday. The 30-06 Springfield is still the best first choice.

I don't live in a place where hunting occurs over wide open spaces. At least not much.

Most of the deer taken, of which I've participated, either as companion, are in heavily wooded areas, that don't require high velocity, flat shooting,
magnum rifles.

Your experiences are obviously different.

You are also correct that wind is not a problem in these areas, so, forgive me if I give you a bad time about it. Max range, for us, across an open field, is probably 500 yards, and my friend always got closer.

Not to mention, he was a great shot, period.

He also had great rifles, and, never seemed to miss.

Kind of an american version of Saeed. Perhaps, due to that, I don't fully appreciate the difference between target and game hunting, so, I will take your comments, and accept them.

Perhaps one of the guys at the range will let me use one of their 300 Mags, and I'll see what all the fuss is about. Sure is a sexy cartridge.

I still think it looks better behind a 375 grain bullet, and, I'm just kind of curious, why you don't go for the 375 RUM? It puts out the larger diameter bullet, with more energy down range, and isn't it immune to the wind, and drop, when put out at high velocity, because of it's BC, and the added weight makes it harder to blow off target, and, the greater bullet weight, with sufficent velocity, also fights drop???

gs

------------------
I love 45
santilli@singleaction45.com

You reiterate points I've tried to plainly point out. The 7-08/308 are the same class of cartridge as the '06,with added benefits. They are of smaller size,that requires a smaller action and they make better use of a same length barrel. Their accuracy edge isn't theory,it is real. I plainly stated it takes a fine rifle to discern that,but it remains fact and those rifles are widely available and I own more than a couple of each example. So it is no fluke.

I like rifles,plain and simple. As I stated for most scenarios,encountered by most folks afield,the 30-06 is of zero "advantage" over what many would view as lesser cartridges(7-08/308 etc.). Is the 30-06 so much more convincing in ballistics,that it offers a very real step up in downrange performance and on Game effects,that those cartridge suffer woefully? Not hardly. They are one and the same and interchangeable.

So I don't see the romantic attraction to tote a harder recoiling rifle,that is of heavier weight,that simply performs the same task.

I like long actions for when they are required and have a slug of them,that isn't the issue. If you are going to carry an action of that length,you may as well have performance that fits it.

If there was 400fps difference between the 308 and '06,the step up would be very worthy. That is not the case.

The 30-06 is a workman like cartridge,that can't be disputed. What is often overlooked,is the multitude of equally fine and superior examples available,in a myriad of shapes and sizes.

To clarify(again)the 7-08/308/284 based Wildcats/WSM's,SAUM's/etc. Will meet as a minimum or exceed '06 performance. If a 7-08(for example)won't do the job,a 30-06 isn't the definative answer,because it doesn't bring enough to the table,to brush the 7-08 aside and effectively take over where that cartridge leaves off.

So my point is,to readily seperate to another class of cartridge,one must employ a case of increased capacity. You can go the belted route,the Ultra route,the WSM route or SAUM route,all very easily and over the counter. If a man is inclined to build something different and catered to his specific tastes,the sky is the limit.

If your needs aren't for a large capacity cartridge,to reach a long ways,or to deliver vast amounts of energy,why aren't you using a 308?................

Mike,

An interesting spin,on nothing.

It should be glaringly clear,that the 30-06 has been indoctrinated for generations here in the States. It served in WWI,WWII,Korea,etc. It was the staple for countless millions who served,then came home to Hunt and was handed down for a couple generations too. It was nearly the only cartridge used,for much of that. Retired/replaced Service Rifles were sold at nearly scrap prices,same goes ammo,projectiles and powder.

I'd be a 30-06 fan for a while if rifles were $32 a pop,ammo nearly free and components dirt cheap. I'm a realist and I couldn't afford NOT to take advantage of such a situation. That wouldn't alter the mechanics of the cartridge,though it would sway millions of devotees who largely shot nothing else,to extoll it's virtues and deem it as "BEST".

That is where the 30-06 currently sets in history. I am not naive enough to confuse "readily available" and "dirt cheap",with being "best". Often people are like Sheep. Hell,they put Clinton in Office TWICE!

When someone thinks outside the box,has more than passing familiarity with more than one cartridge,the establishment is quick to bust his chops. Comical really and I can both handle it and enjoy a little debate now and again.

I built a 338Ultra with but a couple distinct purposes in mind. As the premier Bear Whacker,foremost amongst them. I believe it to be as convincing as my 378Wby and that is lofty praise,because the 378 impresses the shit out of me.

To think I'd happily board a Jet enroute to Down Under with the naive notion to tote only that rifle,for tasks that scream for a much lesser rifle,is amusing. Surely,you give me more credit than that?(grin).

What you tried to surmise,is the vast amount of lacking working knowledge,by the gun buying public. I concur. It is amazing to me,the incredible number of idiots that couldn't tell their left foot from their right,but are self professed Gurus on things they've never done,that incorporate the use of a rifle. "Joe Average" scares the shit out of me,always has and I put little faith in his muddled thoughts. I think it safe to say,there are more idjuts afield with the '06,than anything else. Food for thought.

Most guys that would bother to take the time to tune into a resource such as this site,are of very different experience and surely above "average" in both know how and field time. So that observation shouldn't be perceived as a "jab" at fellas here. That was not my intent,but I think you understand my perception.

Were I enroute to Oz,I'd have a couple 223's and a 308,because they are the sound choice due to logistics. Might tote the 338Ultra as a lark,'cause there is something Therapeutic sounding about shooting a Donkey in the ass(pun intended).

Good Shootin'..............

I agree with you on the 30/06 and its military status. Australia is an example.It was not our military cartridge and 30/06 is not real common here, but 308 is common.

However, to many, this is a feature of the caliber. How often do you see on postings that an advantage of the 30/06 is that you can buy ammo almost anywhere. Same for 375 H&H for the international hunter.

I know that you are saying if all calibers had the same costings, same availability etc. then the 30/06 would be way down in popularity stakes.

But that may not be correct and recoil would be one reason.

There seems to be a general consensus that once velocities are around the 2500 to 3000 bracket, killing power does not really get better with an increase in velocity. Thus for a given amount of recoil, shooters will see a 30/06 "type" caliber as being superior to say a 257 Wby or 264 and a 375 H&H as better than a 300 Wby and so on.

I would liken the 30/06 and 375 to a large cubic inch but low performance engine and the 257 Wby and 300 Wby to a small cubic inch but high performance engine delivering the same horsepower.

Small fast calibers are far more specific with their bullet requirements than calibers with equal energy from bigger and slower bullets. Just like the small high performance engine needs the car to be in the right gear to get good performance potential.

You might argue that a 257 and 300 Wby offer better killing power than the 30/06 and 375 H&H, but you would get many that would disagree.

Mike

quote:

---

I still think it looks better behind a 375 grain bullet, and, I'm just kind of curious, why you don't go for the 375 RUM? It puts out the larger diameter bullet, with more energy down range, and isn't it immune to the wind, and drop, when put out at high velocity, because of it's BC, and the added weight makes it harder to blow off target, and, the greater bullet weight, with sufficent velocity, also fights drop???

---

You need to understand what gives a bullet its BC. All else being equal, a heavier bullet will have a higher BC. All else being equal, a larger diameter bullet will have a lower BC.

So as you go up in diameter, you need to make the bullet heavier just to have the same BC. Generally with hunting rounds, you reach a point where it isn't practical to add enough weight. For example, using the same style of bullet, the 30 cal 180 and 200 Sierra Gamekings have BC's of .501 and .560. The 375 cal 250 and 300 Gamekings have BC's of .353 and .475.

Comparing the 300 to the 200, (kind of guessing what velocity the 375 RUM could get from the 300 as there isn't much data out there yet) the 300 starts out with a lot more energy but by about 350 yds the 200 has caught it. And the 200 shoots flatter with less wind drift at all ranges (but the difference becomes larger the farther the shot is).

Two different cartriges for two different purposes. If I lived in Brown Bear country or had plans to hunt Cape Buffalo anytime soon, the 375 would be the clear winner. But for my use, I don't really think I need the extra killing power of the 375 for deer and elk (not that there's anything wrong with it). If the chances of a long shot are high, and wind is usually a factor, the 300 RUM will be easier to put the bullet in the proper place with.

Besides, for me it was only a cheap rechamber job away.

Slow speeds,high SD's,etc,etc. are proven killers. I submit they don't do it in the fashion of something that hits faster.

I've seen Elk killed with several 375H&H's. Certainly it worked. I've seen a like number killed with an STW. If you harness speed,by employing a superb bullet,the results are nothing shy of dramatic.

Been there,done that. The 257Wby as an example,borders on the incredible,with mundane regularity..................

If you ever saw the 458 Win with 400 grain Speer flat points loaded to 2100 f/s up against the small bore magnums on pigs and roos, you might change you opinion

A mate of mine has a pair of 257 Wby on Rem 700 actions, a 264, 25/300 Win and a 270/300 Win.

He has shot about 100 African plains game on 4 trips, with 257 with Barnes X in 90 and 115 grains and 7mm STW and 300 Wby both with Barnes X and a few animals with Winchester Failsafe. He has settled on the 257 at this stage for this type of shooting ashe has had very good success with it.

However just recently he was away on a roo and pig shooting trip with the 257 and 90 grain Barnes X and the 264 with 100 grain Ballistic Tip. He got to see first hand the 458 with 400 grain Speers

Mike

Which gives a hunter a larger edge the 308's 5% better accuracy in sporting weight rifles or the 30-06's 100+fps advantage in velocity?

You seem to believe the extra 5oz & .5" in extra length is such a disadvantage for long action sporters that it is worth loosing 100fps and 10% in energy to go with a SA cartridge. As I said before there is a give and take with choosing any cartridge over the 30-06 for medium game hunting. When it comes to modern cartridges there is no free lunch. You can't get something for nothing.

Jason

You seem convinced that all advocates of the 30-06 are sheepish and have no understanding of ballistics or other calibers and that they simply have a 30-06 because of what others tell them. Yet the 308 is supposed to be this wonderfull more modern cartridge that anyone would be so much better off owning when in fact the overall difference between the two doesnt add up to squat. If you like short actions, get a 308. I load both and either one can have more recoil or energy than the other depending on the load or the gun.
Any well informed sportsman selects his gun(s) for his own reasons and there are many VERY good reasons for owning an 06 no matter how you try to spin the "its a tired old worn out load" take.

I submit that it is the velocity freaks who are sheepish instead of free thinkers and do not specialize their equipment. Look at the 358 winchester, I doubt if there has ever been a finer brush load and yet nobody wants one because the majority has been effectivley brainwashed into the idea that high velocity will get them a filled tag no matter what the task may be. Is the 358 winchester inadequate or "lacking"? Not for what it was intended for but Ill bet that many hunters who could greatly benefit from such a design will buy 300 ultra mags this year instead.

Baaaaaaaa!

[This message has been edited by Wstrnhuntr (edited 02-11-2002).]

Accuracy first. With it,you have everything else. Placement negates many superflous discussions,that always start with "if". When you poke a good bullet,in a good spot,the Hunt is over. A lesser placed shot,with 100fps more impact velocity is just that. A poor shot.

5 ounces of weight and longer bolt travel,don't keep me up at night troubled unduely. Housing lackluster performance that is available in a smaller package,in a long action,isn't my cure all.

I never asked for something for nothing,nor implied it is available.
I simply stated there are numerous short actions cartridges that will run right alongside the 30-06. Many will fully trump it,in the same smaller package.

That was my sole contention. Many wish to refute that...................

Wstrnhuntr,

I never implied the 308 would outclass,outdistance,or deliver more energy than the 30-06. I stated it boasts an edge in mechanical accuracy potential and couples that with performance quite similar to the 30-06. All those things are wrapped into a shorter action. That is no gigantic earth shattering advantage,but certainly is NOT a handicap.

Of all the VERY good reasons to own an '06(your words),I find it odd you couldn't mention a one of them?

I can see your troubles,with the 7-08 and it's very difficult to obtain componetry. Damn hard to find 308 brass. Those "oddball".284" projectiles are equally rare. Propellants in the middle of the spectrum,that are candidates for the 308/30-06 work very well in the 7-08. I suppose they are rare too?

Ballistics is Physics. Really nothing to "prove". Bullet #A at a given speed and a given make up,will behave in a given manner downrange.

You imply the 30-06 to perform in such a radically exceptional manner,that a comparison of the 7-08/308 to it,needs "proof". The proof is they move like sized projectiles,at like speeds. That will yield like results. I'd not be bragging,that you failed to discern the obvious.

Just what do you use your 30-06 for,that makes it "perfect"? What task has it performed for you,that the 7-08/308 couldn't do,in like fashion?

I smell a great deal of speculation and utter confusion,by someone who has dabbled little with the cartridges he mentions(if at all)...................

Of course unless one of those is his .375 Ackley (I have one also) he will not be shooting the 30-06 Springfields 200 gr Nosler Partition at 2,690 fps. His .308 Winchester will not come anywhere near that in performance. That load separataes the 06' from the toys.

Until someone comes up with a new propellant even the most intellegent will make only small progress with better bullets.

(personal note to Big Stick) Copy this thread and attach it on a resume to Weatherby. They need someone with your energy. Someone will believe it, it's a nich market. They need you since Roy passed on.

In summary, conclusion and final answer. It's the bullet that counts and not the cartridge. The 30-06 is the most popular and shoots the most popular bullet at good velocity. We really don't need the others! (period).

I'm pretty simplistic in my approach. I firmly believe in placement,projectile selection and a good set of legs,to get the job done.

For those reasons,I can't deem lofty praise upon a cartridge that has attributes very similar to countless other offerings and hold it in awe. The 30-06 came on the scene at the right time,without other cartridges we now take for granted,to contend with for the then vacant throne. It rose to the top more as a fluke,than due to it's incredible performance capabilities. It trumped most everything else that was readily available,propellant technology was in it's infancy,as was bullet making technology. For those reasons,it flourished.

Nobody is foolish enough to entertain the notion of paying a single nickle,for my thoughts. I like several of the Weatherby chamberings,but much prefer them housed in rifles of different manufacture. No hidden paycheck there.

Everyone that trumpets the 30-06,echoes my thoughts,that I've tried to make very clear. It doesn't take a huge bullet,at sensational speeds,to reliably hammer Game. I whole heartedly concur.

I fail to see the 30-06 as the single acceptable blueprint for success. "Popularity" never impressed me,because most weighing in on the poll,are oblivious. Many hop on that Band Wagon,because they simply don't know any other route. To confuse that,with folks making a well researched opinion,is flawed at best.

Spend an afternoon in a major Sporting Goods store,the weekend before the Season opener. it will scare the shit right out of you. Those are the gents that make the 30-06 sooooo "popular". Most couldn't pour piss out of a boot,discern a Match King from a Swift A-Frame or an X bullet. If it comforts you,that they are on your "side",that's your business.

I simply don't see it that way..............

What are your views on the 375 H&H.

Mike

Is the accuracy difference between the 308 and 30-06 large enough that a well placed shot with a 308 would become a "poor shot" with a 30-06 if the rifle was aimed at the same spot?

Is 5% difference in total group size enough to make a noticeable difference in shot placement on game?

Jason

It offers superb accuracy(I've had 5 of them and 2 375H&H Ackleys all dazzled in accuracy),coupled with adequate projectile weights,the combo is very effective,if a man has the need.

I figure you are baiting the hook..............

I didn't say that. I said that I'd happily trade 100fps impact velocity,to yield a 5% accuracy increase. You tossed the numbers,I offered what my choice would be.

I've yet to field a rifle that was too accurate. Were it to happen,I'd comment on it...........

Johnny Ringo,

So does the 243 on up. Your point is?..........

The percentage differences in bore size and case capacity between the 257 Wby and 30/06 and the 300 Ultra and 375 H&H are similar.

Mike

I should have been more concise.

The advantage in accuracy,is a very easy choice to make,when one has to go to a long action and harder kicking rifle,to yield the 100fps increase/accuracy disadvantage.........

Mike,

Percentage means dick.

Show me the 30-06 that shoots as flat as the 257Wby and I'll cut that check............