I'd share a campfire anyday with you Mac, it would be a pleasure to talk to someone who shares my veiws!

quote:

It probably went right over your head ,but YOU started this thread about texas and high fence killing of domestic animals.If you'd shut your yap,the subject wouldnt be coming up at all.

Sorry, but you are wrong once again. I didn't start this topic to "stoke the fire". Read what I wrote in my first post, "Hey..........I thought y'all might enjoy a couple pics." I didn't even say anything about hunting. They don't hunt the Kudu on this place, because there's only a few of them. They wouldn't be very hard to hunt because they've never been hunted before. However..........if I could.........I'd invite you to this ranch and I'll print you out an Aoudad "tag" on my computer. I'd give you 2 days to find and shoot a mature Aoudad ram. You would be hunting in the same 1,800 acre section as the Kudu and there are approximately 200 Aoudad in this section. Chances are........you'd be "eating your tag".

quote:

And yes the availability of accomodations does have something to do with the wildness of game.If they werent fenced in,your ass wouldnt get far enough off the asphalt to find a pile of their shit.

And where did you come up with this? Did you completely miss my post where I said that approximately 95% of my hunting has been on LOW-FENCED land?

MAC,

quote:

Funny how when they run counter to your beliefs, you start crying and pouting and ask everyone to "Mind their own business".

I was asking jb to mind his own business about my nickname, not the topic, I encourage anyone who wants to have an intelligent debate on this subject. Unfortunately, you and jb aren't willing to engage in an intelligent, logical, rational debate. You resort to making ignorant generalizations and assuming things about people that you've never met before.

Both of you have admitted that you have NEVER (repeat, NEVER) hunted on any high fenced property. I would venture to say that neither of you have even BEEN ON any high fenced property. Therefore, you have ZERO experience on the subject.........so you can't talk from experience. Take jeffeosso's offer and then come back and write your opinions on here. Then I'll take you a little more seriously. Until then, you are just spewing BS because you don't know what you are talking about.

It's a real shame threads on this AND other forums have to degenerate to such low levels. This was originally posted just to show some Kudu on a ranch in Texas, no other points being made. I enjoyed the pics as Kudu are probably my favorite game animal in the world. I have been on 8 safaris admittidly only to Zimbabwe totaling in the months of time spent there. I have not once NOT driven to the campsite and once there have NEVER slept in anything but a comfortable bed. In all that time I have spent in the field I can remember only 4 days that I didn't have FLUSH toilets and hot showers. To me African hunting camps are like fine resorts with tablecloths on the dining table and fine food and drink definitely not 'roughing it' in a wilderness. I do not hunt here in the US PRECISELY because I have been 'spoiled' by the comforts of hunting in Africa. I have NEVER been duck hunting even as a youger person simply because I don't like to hunt in the wet. Does this diminsh me as a hunter,possibly but then I don't equate 'hunting' with discomfort. I have walked many miles for Elephant and have sat for hours in a blind for Leopard. Which was the harder or does it REALLY make any difference. Over the years I have taken Deer,Antelope,Elk,Pig and Bear and untold amounts of small game here in the US and have taken most species of plains game and dangerous game fond in Zimbabwe.I have hunted on small farms in the US and in National Forrests in the US and on small high fenced areas and in huge unfenced areas in Zimbabwe and I think I appreciated and enjoyed the experience in all cases. I have been successful on some hunts unsuccessful on others but never in all my life have I condemned ANYONE for their choice of place or means to hunt. As I said it's sad these forums deginirate to this level.

Zimbabwe, Thank You, that is a really great response to this issue.

Im only having fun,i cant speak for anyone else.

Give the kid a break, If I had Kudu or any exotic that cost me $17,500 I want it on a high fence also. Hunting is a regional thing for the most part. Private land vs state land vs wilderness its mostly how you were brought into the sport. I like to hunt with dogs for instance, can't use them for big game in NY but I've went to FL and AL to hunt deer had a blast. Went to Texas and hunted Javalina's with Crazy Horse with my kids had a blast.I think everyone would do better to keep a open mind then just condenming how sombody else does it. Elk Hunting in the big woods isn't for everyone. (yes I've done it 5 or 6 times unguided) But I've got to admint I like sleeping in a bed too. Turning away young people to the sport will end it. It will be their world in a few years. Well enough of the soap box I've got to go hunting on the 100,000 acres across the road.

Seems this "Eland Butcher" fella starts a bunch of these dust ups about Texas. I do not know if its intentional but it could be. I am still waiting for him to post his free range Bongo in Waco hunts.

Posts: 1374 | Location: London | Registered: 31 May 2003
Eland Slayer
one of us
Posted 20 November 2007 17:11 Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Boghossian:
Interesting pictures, how do kudu fare in Texas? Do they thrive or do they die off when there is a cold snap?

I am curious as to how long ago the first ones were imported...


As far as I know, Kudu do quite well in Texas. I believe they were introduced in the 1970's or possibly even the 1960's. There are many ranches with breeding herds of Kudu. Some of the larger herds are owned by the 777 Ranch and the 74 Ranch. Most Kudu are in South Texas, mainly because of the warmer temperatures. However, I do know of a ranch in East Texas called the Circle E Ranch that has a small herd of about 25 Kudu.


---Vegetarian: old Indian word for "bad hunter".---

Posts: 1027 | Location: The great state of TEXAS!!! | Registered: 01 October 2005
MAC
one of us

Posted 22 November 2007 21:18 Hide Post
quote:
As far as I know, Kudu do quite well in Texas.


They should do well. Most animals thrive in a zoo.

Mac


One loves to possess arms, though they hope never have occasion for them.
Thomas Jefferson to George Washington 1796

Posts: 873 | Location: Colorado by birth, Navy by choice | Registered: 04 February 2001



I don't think he started this, but I don't think he turned the other cheek either. I think he aswered a valid question very well and then took offense at a remark which was intended to incite. It is unfortunate, but there is no middle ground with zealots, no matter their persuasion.

Alan

quote:

Seems this "Eland Butcher" fella starts a bunch of these dust ups about Texas. I do not know if its intentional but it could be. I am still waiting for him to post his free range Bongo in Waco hunts.

No Sir, there are a few folks on here that are so prejudiced toward Texas and Texans that the minute they see a post made by a Texan about almost ANY kind of hunting in Texas they make a dig of the spurs.

HMMM>>> Interstate 80 runs from CA, thru UT, WY, NE IA to Chicago.....must be a lot of saps, whiners, and crybabies up there.

probably ~ i am of course just giving CHC a hard time.

FWIW, i thought E.S.'s pix were pretty cool, and had no intention of opening up a new "taxas thang;"" but CHC's whining was like a red cape being waved in front of el toro.....

ok,el toro...chill out and have a cerveza fria..

only if you have one with me...

Well.......things seem to be a little more settled now. I went back through my pictures from when I worked on the ranch back in 2005 and I've got some more Kudu pictures!!

Here's the same bull when he was 3 years old. Those are Pere David Deer in the foreground. That is Haygrazer that's planted. The owner plants about 350 acres of it on that 1,800 acre section. That section has much better soil than the other sections because the Medina River runs through the place for a couple miles. The critters have plenty to eat.




Here are 3 of the cows eating some sort of browse. Maybe Kidneywood?? I'm really not sure. Anybody know? (FYI, the stuff growing on the ground under the tree is Iceweed)




Here's the bull eating some of the same stuff.




Here's part of the herd on a different day when they were on the banks along the Medina River.








And here's the bull and one of the younger cows off by themselves in a Cedar flat on a different day.




Enjoy........

I typically stay out of these pissing contests, but I'd like some of this action. I'll put up another thousand dollars ($1,000)on top of what Jeffeosso has offered if one of you Texas bashers want to take the challenge. Let me know the time and date and I'll be there with the cash.
GWB

Eland Slayer-

Thanks for sharing the photos. I thoroughly enjoyed them. As to the condescending naysayers, pay them no mind. They're not worth it.

The same people who jump at the jugular of anything Texas-related seem to have no qualms about hunting over alfalfa in Montana or Canada, baiting bear, setting up over a waterhole in Wyoming, hunting grainfields in the midwest or over the many beanfields in the southeast. And I know for a fact that some of these folks have participated in such hunting, yet they loudly condemn any piece of land in Texas with a feeder or a blind on it.

One of these clowns (no, I won't name names as I don't stoop to that low of a level -- I do not want to be like them!) killed a zillion or so doves over grainfields that were baited with EXTRA grain in Argentina. But that's OK; that's not the "same" in his books.

Another of these clowns also keeps yapping for a Texas-only forum. Maybe, instead, we should clamor for a holier-than-thou forum. And I'd gladly nominate JB as the charter member.

As an aside, I'll tell a story I've told here before. It seems appropriate once again:
A couple of years ago, a "writer" had booked an unguided hunt with a ranch in the southwest portion of the state.

This is rough and rugged country -- unforgiving at times -- where cactus and catclaw carve up the unknowing, where rattlers can turn a dream hunt into a nightmare and where water is always in short supply. But his client asked no questions about the terrain, wanted no guiding assistance and was non-chalant about the entire affair.

The ranch manager had read his work before and knew that he had taken a couple of cheap shots at high-fenced operations in the past (this ranch was high-fenced and just over 20,000 acres). So he decided to have a little fun with him. Just after daybreak, he dropped off the writer near the center of the ranch near a bluff overlooking some promising hunting areas -- albeit in the most rugged and remote part of the ranch. He said "I'll pick you up at the gate 30 minutes after sunset. But if you get lost, just get to the fence and follow it back."

To make a long story short, the "writer" was not at the designated pickup point. Within minutes, the ranch headquarters phone rang, and a deseprate voice on the other end admitted he was hopelessly lost since around 3 p.m. and could not find his way to the gate OR EVEN TO THE FENCE!

I am not certain, but I do believe this "writer" visits AR on occasion, and if he wants to chime in, I'd like to know if his opinion of high-fenced ranches has changed. And for the record, he didn't bag anything while hunting alone; on the 4th day, with the added services of a guide, he did manage to tag a decent buck.

---

One last thing:
Some of the folks here think they are tigers -- but that's only because they can hide behind the anonymity of their computer screen. Put them out in the real world and they're nothing but a whining kitty that doesn't have the intestinal fortitude or the common sense to get down from the tree.

Just wondering if hunting islands is in the same boat as high fenced if so i'm guilty on both counts.

Real shame hunters can't kept there nose out of others business and just enjoy life.

THANKS FOR THE PICTURES THEY WHERE GREAT.

US1 wrote:

quote:

Real shame hunters can't kept there nose out of others business and just enjoy life.

AMEN to that!!!

Eland Slayer, I enjoyed your photos and your replies to your critics. You are clearly a hunter and not a "killer" or a "wall collector". We hunt because we enjoy hunting. Unfortunately, some people seem to enjoy deriding anything different from "their way", just as others seem unable to resist killing immature animals, or others putting a huge-head from a 10 acre high-fence-pasture on their wall--neither of which you are advocating.
Thanks for the photos.

whatsa matter tex,got a burr under your saddle?

I honestly dont know what you think this would prove or disprove.

That Jeffe knows how to hide a barrel better than I know how to look for one? probably.

That your a better hunter than me? could be.wouldnt take much

That you can get me to shut up and go away?.......mmmmmm.....not likely

Why dont you send DRG the thousand to make a Texas forum and never hear from me again? MONEY WELL SPENT

jb-The Texas folks don't want the forum. It's YOU who keeps bringing it up. You even drew the ire of Don with this garbage, and he KILLED your threads on it, didn't he???

yes he sure did.took away my poll too,before very many people had a chance to take it.Doesnt mean Im going to lay down and go away.I see another AR member calling for a similar forum now.Maybe someday.
A quote from the minnesota dnr publication conservation volunteer"next to abortion,I cant think of any more emontially charged topic than hunting farms or hunting behind wire".

For Pete's sake guys. Back off and think about what you speak. If not for the "game ranch" operations today, how many species would now be essentially extinct?? Look at the species that today are flourishing because of High Fence operations, the ranch in Florida comes to mind which has the greatest population of Avis Deer in the world, more than exist in the entire country of India from which they came, and all that one one single Florida ranch! Also consider that some properties are raising high fences merely to keep their product in, because after all, whatever game exists upon your property IS YOUR PROPERTY. Now, as to hunting, I've hunted free range and fenced in Maine, Vermont, New York, Florida, Texas, Colorado, California, Oregon, Washington, Namibia, and South Africa. Did I feel bad about hunting in fenced vs "free range" territory? Not hardly, at least not on 10,000 - 20,000 acre ranches. I think people should rein in their prejudices and smell the roses. These ranches are what is maintaining our privilege to hunt, and maintaining the species in the bargain!

LLS

Give it your best shot Dude.

I have this feeling that you and a lot of the other folks that are so down on Texas and Texans, would enjoy setting around a campfire talking about this stuff in person with Texans, and I believe many of you would find out that while a lot of Texans don't really agree with all the high fencing going on and the way it has driven the price of hunting out of many folks reach, nearly all of us believe and will defend a land owners right to do as they choose with their land, and that as long as it is legal, the right of a hunter to hunt as they choose.

jb

I can understand why the killing of unborn human beings inside the womb is an emotionally charged" topic.

If I recall you used to end all your posts with post script of "no fences".

Why is it that hunting on farms or on a tract that has a fence around it so offensive to you.

GWB

I can see why high fence hunters would think that finding a hidden 55 gal. barrel difficult. Is it because?

1. The barrel won't come to a feeder?
2. The barrel won't come to a food plot?
3. The barrel won't come if you bang two pots together to simulate rutting barrels?
4. The barrel won't come to a water hole?
5. You can sit all day in a wooden blind on a tripod and the barrel won't make an appearance?
6. You would have to get out and expend some energy in walking to find the barrel?
7. You couldn't locate the barrel's home range by setting out your trail cameras?
8. Your masking scent would be a waste of money?
9. The barrel doesn't make a very good mounted trophy to impress your friends?
10. The barrels don't reproduce very well.

Why do high fence proponents think that because you don't agree with the sporting aspect of high fence hunting that you are anti-Texan?



465H&H

actually,gee dubya,whatever you sportsman want to do on your own time is your business.If you want to shoot(or raise) hand raised,protein fed, artifically large antlered deer, or aoudad or kudu,by all means ,go to it.I dont really care.I just wish I could come to AR and not have to see it.Photos of thirty trophy bucks with ear tags,eating out of horse troughs.What a sporting proposition.Pick one out,we'll let him loose in the back 40,or 400 or 4000.doesnt matter.I wont change my mind.sorry.

...and I wish a person could post a photo of a deer -- like the monster arrowed fair chase on the 11,000+ acre low fence Hagerman Wildlife Refuge -- without moronic and snide remarks that erupt from blatant generalizations...

From this (Hagerman buck) thread, some of the local AR geniuses posted, in no particular order:

"ya'll are still legally allowed to call it hunting?


we also dont call shooting deer in a pen "hunting".


Fjold is dead-on-the-money. The ear-tag was no doubt removed prior to the photo-op. In Texas recognition should go to the farm that raises the buck rather than the shooter who harvests it."

Talk about a lack of intelligence and common courtesy...

I see what you mean.i thought you meant I started it .seemed like the thing to do at the time.

Just finished reading this thread for the first time. I'm not familiar with what going on in Texas with the fences and the game but I do read English well enough. From what I've read, Eland Slayer simply wanted to share some photos with the rest of us just for the sake of sharing. Next thing you know, some self righteous individuals took it as there duty to belittle Eland Slayer and provide him some moral rulebook defining the concept of hunting. Most hunters I have the pleasure of hunting with feel a spiritual connection of sorts when hunting. They don't feel an obligation to give up any enjoyable comforts to experience this connection. Not all hunters need to "rough it" to connect with Nature. Unfortunately, some righteous individuals feel compelled to insist there's only one way to enjoy hunting. Seems as a rather limited perspective to me.

Thanks for sharing the photos, I enjoyed them.

Bobby B.

Bobby B.-

THANK YOU for your reply and your common sense approach to the topic.

I appreciate the pics -- and look forward to those herds of kudu joining the free-ranging herds of Axis, Dall sheep, Mouflons, black buck, fallow, etc ranging over Texas...

I also don't know why so many guys get worked up over high fences in TX, but think it's OK in Namibia.

The simple fact is that game populations are exceptionally high in TX, because of the capitalist approach to management -- it also promotes "improvement" of trophies, since at the minimum, it encourages the land owner ensure that the good bucks survive to breed, and to cull the deficient ones.

Personally, I'm not comfortable hunting on public lands, since I don't want some guy who bought his first gun the day before confusing me for a whitetail. And, the vast majority of those lands were essentially stolen from the actual owners, and are abysmally mismanaged.

TX has, IMO, a much better principle of leasing land from private landowners, which ensures that it doesn't suffer the long-term destruction common on BLM lands and national forests.

jb,

I've been lurking and posting on this forum for close to six years. I do not think you can find a post of mine where I have made a derogatory remark or flamed another member. I usually do not get involved in these type of discussions but from time to time I do ask a question of another forum member. KStephens likes to derrogate Texas hunters and I asked him simply if he had ever posted anything other than a derogatory comment about another forum member or the way he hunted. He did not answer the question, rather he dissembled.

You seem to enyoy hihacking others posts with rants about fences and ear-tagged animals so I asked you two simple questions. You did not answer them either. Rather you went off on a rant about pen raised deer and ear tags.
I wouldn't know anything about that, as I have never hunted on a high fenced ranch and do not know anyone that has. We have very little public land here to hunt so if you want to hunt big game in Texas it usually has to be done on private land. I have the good fortune to be able to afford two "working man's" leases. Both lease for $1,600 per year. One is on 3,000 low fenced acres that were last repaired in 1986, and on a portion of a 30,000 acre low fenced ranch. The 30,000 acre ranch has no power or running water. I have never seen an animal on either of these properties that had a tag on its body (much less its ear), tied to a tree, or hobbled in any manner. I've also had the good fortune to be able to go these leases once a month for three or four days for the last ten years or so. In that time i've had the opportunity to hunt audad, corsican, black hawaiian,and mouflon sheep, exotics such as sika, axis, and fallow deer, white-tail deer, hogs, coyotes, fox, bobcat javelina, jack rabbits, coons, squirrels, ringtail cats, turkey, dove, quail, pigeons, crows and starlings. Once again none of these creatures had an eartag or a band of any kind. They were all free ranging critters.
So, once again, as I have never hunted fence operation, I'll ask you in good faith what is your problem with fences. Or is it Texas, Texans and our way of hunting your despise.
I'd be happy to invite you to come down and go with me to one of my leases for a long weekend with some of my buds. We eat good, listen to great music, smoke cigars, drink Jack Daniels and Patron tequila, kill animals, tell lies, brag and generally have a great time. You might even enjoy yourself. Send me a pm and I'll get back to ya'
GWB

Man, sounds like I've been on the wrong side of this fence. Piss and moan about high fences and Texas and you get invited on a "Super Weekend"!

Alan

quote:

Originally posted by Geedubya:
I typically stay out of these pissing contests, but I'd like some of this action. I'll put up another thousand dollars ($1,000)on top of what Jeffeosso has offered if one of you Texas bashers want to take the challenge. Let me know the time and date and I'll be there with the cash.
GWB

And I haven't had the pleasure of meeting GW nor have we hunted together or, as far as I know not even to the same places. But, GW, we'll have to correct that.

BTW, the reason you aren't seeing ear tags is that these are bred, read what ES said.

JB, I aint hiding the barrel, that would be too easy. I would be placing it in the same spot where i've either seen or taken hogs. Totally different than "hiding" it.. One would be able to see most, oh 70-80 percent (barrel laying on its side in a natural environment) of a NEON GREEN DRUM...

465, then, bubba, it ought to be easy for you to find, when you coming?

You folks feel free to jam and slam texans, texas hunting, and high fence operations, as if those three are one and the same.

Since ya'll seem to think its shooting fish in a barrel to hunt in a high fence, for puny texas deer (they are, btw, 150# is a HUGE deer here.. they are barely big enough to drag their antlers around) is something very easy and anyone is certain of success.

Fine, bring it. Show us how easy this really is, find a 55 gal drum in a high fence. Put your money where your MOUTH is.
jeffe

Jeffe,

Let me know if someone decides to take you up on your offer. I'd like to be there as well, Huntsville (where I go to college) is only about an hour from the ranch. I've hunted the Camp Cooley (that's where I shot my Eland) and there's some pretty nasty Yaupon thickets on that place. Unfortunately, I don't think any of these guys are going to do it. They don't want to risk being "outwitted" by a 55 gallon drum in a "pen".

On another note, I would actually be hesitant to walk around that place without my .44 mag. I've personally seen 2 boars in the high fenced area that would probably go a little over 400 lbs. and lots of other ones in the 250-300 lb. range.

ES,
I know that they won't. the Yupon isn't even the begining of the heavy cover. There's 1100 more or less acres in the high fence, and I think i have coverd 40% of that ... Most guys don't leave the front 200 acres..

For those that dont' know, tupon, which looks JUST LIKE boxwood, makes incredible thickets, in this case, islands. However, its of the few things in texas without spines, thorns, fangs, claws, stingers or poisons.

I can bet you that not a single loud mouthed TALKER will take me up on this. Now, if a DOER actaully decided to show us a thing or two, i'll be happy to arange things and have a beer and campfire, along with BBQ, steaks, etc...

Ya'll are always welcome to come and teach me, I like to learn.

As for hogs, Ryan and Johnnie kileld one over 400#, both with 44mags, 7 or 9 shots, I think. We killed one a bit over 325 in 2003, out in the river bottom, out of the high fence


jeffe

Yeah........Ryan was my guide back in 2003 when I hunted there. Since then we have become very good friends and, as you might already know, he is now working for Texas Parks and Wildlife as a biologist in Cuero, TX (DeWitt and Goliad Counties). I go down there every August and help him for 3 or 4 days with the deer surveys and whatever else he needs help with, but mainly just to hang out and "shoot the shit". Anyways...........last time I was down, we were talking about that hog that he and Johnny shot. He's also got a couple interesting stories about people hunting Eland and also the guys that came out to hunt hogs with "SUPER" Airguns. haha. Ryan's really a stand-up guy.