mac thank you for a well thought out post that seems to be from the hart. I believe that this becomes dificult because it permiates so many things and is not just about hunting. the fence is about property owners rights. something that is a big deal in texas because it is practicaly all private property.lots of those city folks buy 3-400 acres in the hill country and build high fence around it to keep anyone from harming "their deer". I for one dont think they own those deer any more than I do but just like the guys selling our deer by the point it is just wrong. they are welcome to build the fence it is their land and they want nothing in and nothing out so be it I would rather give up those deer than the property rights we enjoy. they will end up having someone come in to control the overpopulation eventualy so it will only stop hunting for a while before they figure out this need of a predator in a system thing.

on an childlike level the fence offends many peoples sense of fair play and they cant even put their finger on why exactly it just does not seem right. I will give you that sometimes it just does not seem right sometimes it is ok just depends on how you look at it . It has very little if anything to do with how hard it is to hunt a given animal. many people from the square states dont believe that because they are use to vast expances of someone elses land to hunt but it is true. it makes little or no diff. in how hard a hunt is. It makes a big diff. in HOW you hunt. in wide open spaces where game is spread out it makes sence to glass spot and stalk you can cover more ground and find what you are looking for without driving the game before you just out of sight. here wher we dont have the vast expances of ground and have to pay for the use of land by the acre we must use the hunting ground more effectivly it takes a fair size group to put together enough mony to lease a place to hunt and it is not going to be enough land to wander around on glass spot and stalk style for everyone even if the terain would allow it whitch it wont. because of these factors and because it is our tradition to do so we hunt an ambush style from a set location so we dont see one another and hunt the same ground and more importantly so we dont shoot eachother so we dont wear orange and it is not required.
some of the pay by the animal places let you walk and hunt but they control who is where on what day and it is even more expensive than leasing the land by the year or season so I dont hunt that way or behind a high fence.but if you can afford it or want to ok with me.

the entire concept that we hunt the way we do because we are lazy or slobs is a lie told by liars there are many reasons for the way we hunt lazy and slopy are not among them.

the fence has nothing to do with hunting it is about personal property rights they are very strong in texas and not near as strong most other states. not saying your state is wrong just very different on this issue.

the ethics argument is pure political correct b.s. the killing of the animal is the problem that non hunters have with hunting how and under what conditions the animal is killed matters not at all. You can pretend that your ethics will protect your way of hunting and not mine if you like but you are shitting yourself. the modern city folk can not seem to get the conection between cows and beef or at least they dont have to think about it . they dont have to stop hunting all at once but they will use usefull idiots within hunting who want to pretend that their killing is superior to others to set the argument and knock us off one at a time.

that is how the three less popular killing styles of traping hunting bears with dogs and bears in general was outlawed in colorado because lots of people whu hunt elk or deer but dont trap or shoot the "majestic" bears took their ethics high horse soap box and stayed out of the ballot box it barely passed and some hunters did not vote because it did not endanger their way of hunting "they were protected by ethics".

you do not have to have hunted to kill but you kill to have hunted. YOU KILL TO HAVE HUNTED!

YOUR SUCCESS IN HUNTING ENDS WITH THE DEATH OF THE ANIMAL. you may not always prvail but that is the end. you may enjoy lots of things about hunting but no one cares. the anti and non hunter alike dont like the killing part how you got there is a distinction without a differance.

you guys out west are slowly being replaced by wolves cats and bears the whole reintoduction and protection is afoot to remove the need of you from the process with wolves no need of hunters to keep elk numbers in check.

If we keep being divided on what killing is to be legal you will soon enough by popular vote lose the public land hunting that you enjoy and we will all be less for it.

it would not affect my hunting at all if they outlaw it on public land but I would and do fight to keep your hunting heritage alive even if you stand on ethics and let mine take a beating.

I have been halfway expecting some attempt at legislation concerning High Fenced properties too, but I haven't been expecting it from anti or non-hunter camps. I have been expecting it from landowners and hunters from adjoining properties and the TPW.

Building a 4 strand barbed wire fence costs about 6 -7 k$ per mile and that was the last time I had one built which was 7 years ago. I can assume that the cost per mile for an 8’ net wire fence would be significantly more than that today. I will take a wild guess and say $12K per mile. It takes 4 miles of fence to enclose a section of land. 4 sections would take 8 miles. That’s roughly $100K to enclose around 2500 acres of land. I don’t know how much money you guys have but a hunertgrand is a lot of money for fence to this cowboy. In order to sell a $10K buck to someone to shoot first you have to have one, in order to pay for the fence you have to have 10. At some point you have to buy the land because no one is going to build $100K of fence on leased land. Now the number of bucks you need to break even just went through the roof.

The point is that the amount of high fenced operations that exist for offering hunting for sale is still in the vast minority in the State of Texas. The majority of those that do exist, I believe, are private clubs, corporate properties, or individuals who use them for their own hunting. There are some and we have one on our south fence. He has 700 acres under fence inside of 1500 acres of free range. He traps bucks and feeds them out for sale. A weekend at his lodge with a guaranteed trophy buck is $3500. My soul is worth more than $3500, his evidentially is not, but it’s his land and his soul. When he is gone, likely his fence will go with him. I’ve seen these things before. The fence is great when it’s new but all fences require constant repair and that is money and usually borrowed money. I can wait, the earth can wait, Texas is a big place, and it will always be Texas and never California, Colorado, or even Wyoming.

Alan

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I will take a wild guess and say $12K per mile.

It is closer to $20k/mile now, if there is no rock and it is reasonably flat, and you don't require much dozer work.

quote:

There are some and we have one on our south fence. He has 700 acres under fence inside of 1500 acres of free range. He traps bucks and feeds them out for sale.

If you have evidence of him trapping native wildlife (Whitetail Deer), I would suggest you call your game warden now. That is illegal and he should be arrested for it.

Once you close your fence, that's it. You can manage what is already inside, you can buy deer from a scientific breeder, but you can't lure Whitetail Deer into a trap and bring them into the already enclosed high fence, even if it is your own land.

Turn him in if you even suspect this is happening. If there is a trap, the game warden will find it.

If he is trapping exotics, that is his right, just as it is your right to trap exotics on your place.

quote:

the fence is about property owners rights.

i suppose the civil war was, too?

no, that was about the right of soverign states to secede from a union that was created by those very soverign states.
GWB

Wendell, I will investigate further. Thanks for the information. I did not know this. I have watched through binoculars bucks searching for openings into this fence. The 700 acre enclosure is inside his property so it would be difficult for me to actually walk the fenceline. He has approached me about leasing our property, which I declined. I may make it my business to keep a closer watch, maybe look into booking a hunt. While I respect his right to do with his property as he pleases I don not respect his "right" to break the law.

Thanks again.

Wow, kudu to fences to property rights to civil war...

yep, jumping to the rediculous (strawman approach) is a clear sign that one's arguement is now totally emotive, without logical content.

We now enter the bizarre place, where it's all about emotions, just like at a women's group

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

if you can't keep up, jeffe, then i'm sorry.

perhaps you should go back to school and brush up on your reading comprehension; most of us learned to follow a conversation and associate context before entering junior high.

Oh well, so much for pretty pics of kudu on vacation in Texas.....

quote:

Posted 29 November 2007 21:57 Hide Post
quote:
the fence is about property owners rights.


i suppose the civil war was, too?

Yes it was, because the Emancipation Proclomation, ONLY FREED THE SLAVES IN SOUTHERN STATES.............Didn't say chit bout freein no slaves held by Northeners.

quote:

Originally posted by RMiller:
For instance, I truly don't think I would like to spend 2 weeks in the wilderness, only to shoot a 4 point elk and then have to pack the S.O.B. out on my back............it's just not my cup of tea..........

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Hell I would do it for a spike.

Hell, I DID it for a spike (took one week, not two). And I would do it again if my body and my wife would let me!


Tim

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Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

texas hunting and slavery during the civil war....guaranteed results every time!

I have already stated my opinion on the barrel test so i won't repeat it. I guess if I am going to critisize the test it is incubent on me to propose an alternative. Here it is.

Allow a hunter to hunt for one week on the ranch property. He would be allowed to take one buck, doe, ten point buck what ever you say in that time but he can not kill an animal within 200 yards of any road or within 1/2 mile of any food plot or feeder. If he kills a deer as required then he gets it free. If he fails then he pays jeffeosso $1,000. That seems like a better test of your hypothesis on how difficult it is to hunt your property with out using food plots of feeders.

465H&H

No, 465, that's your own challenge. I don't ask for anything but equal value... show me I am wrong, and I'll pay for you. Show me you are wrong, and you pay for me.

The end.

Since it is shooting fish in a barrel, finding a barrel should be no challenge.

Or, of course, it's not actually shooting fish in a barrel.

btw, "not within 1/2 a mile of a feeder" means 1 feeder per 640 acres ... which is kind of a built in failure for a high fenced operation

but, of course, we should all just agree to disagree and not make every post a dustup.

So, let's try this.. How about let's try NOT posting on threads that we may not agree with?


Don't like exotic/high fence hunting in texas? Great, we get it

Me, myself? I don't like shots taken over 200 yards at animals, but i no longer complain about them

I have my opinions but I like to hear those that disagree with them. From them I learn something that either causes me to change my opinion or it reinforces it. If we all agreed on everything or didn't post then there is no discussion. How boring would that be?

465H&H

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I have my opinions but I like to hear those that disagree with them. From them I learn something that either causes me to change my opinion or it reinforces it. If we all agreed on everything or didn't post then there is no discussion. How boring would that be?