I don't think anybody should be giving Larry a hard time. He wasn't interested and he dismissed it at the time. It doesn't matter what he thought about the offer. He has come on and given his honest account of what was offered and what Lemon told him about the hunt. I have always appreciated Larry's honesty and willingness to discuss things openly.

Thanks Drummond.

I have thought about this some more. I don't see how anyone can be taken on a high fence hunt and not know it. After all, at some point you have to drive through the gate. The client HAD to know.

Thinking back about it, that "home range" comment MIGHT have been a joke. I am not sure. We were cutting up pretty hard at the time.

It seems that nothing has been done wrong at this point. However, those with knowledge perhaps should have kept quiet about the matter to see if Wade would hang himself. Obviously, he isn't going to do that now.

The hunt was not for me whether it was free range or not. I didn't pursue the details because I had zero interest.

Larry is a standup man who has always said it how it is on this forum and in the correspondence I've had with him. He has been straight forward on this thread.

As far as the deer is concerned, I have seen many bucks from Old Mexico which are touted as high scoring and even records. Problem is so many are listed as SCI scores. I take that most of the time to mean they are high fence or not fair chase. So this deer may very well have been a record in SCI. I'm no fan of high fences or selling hunts based on inches.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

It seems that nothing has been done wrong at this point. However, those with knowledge should have kept quiet about the matter to see if Wade would hang himself. Obviously, he isn't going to do that now.

This was the stance I was taking. I was waiting until after the season but once it was out there I posted it up. There are still some details they better have paid attention to or they may have already hung themselves but who knows

I still feel that by not coming out and saying what it is it's a blatant misrepresentation of facts and I find it funny that just a few days prior to this going public there were people associated with the Lemons claiming that they never hunted behind a fence.

I also find it a bit disingenuous that they have video of a buck on their promotional video that lives in a 10 acre pen and had a tag in its ear at one point. It's misleading and IMO it's fraudulent as potential clients see that and may think its free range. I could not find any information on their website pertaining to pen raised deer and if you're doing it you damn sure better be honest about it

In the final analysis, a high fenced deer should never be sold as free ranging nor ever entered in the record book as free ranging.

If they have done something wrong, they should be punished.

Unfortunately, as long as SCI or any other group continue giving recognition of any kind to the people shooting these animals, things are not going to change. Whether it is a 2 acre enclosure or a 50K acre enclosure, if it is surrounded by a high fence animals killed inside of that fence should be identified as such. Both before and after the kill. JMO.

I might consider supporting high fenced killing, if the record book is maintained by 4H and it lists only the farmer who raised it. After all they supply the land, they maintain the fence, they choose the genetics and they choose and maintain the feed program and do all the work to raise it, so they deserve the credit. No need to credit the guy with the bolt gun in my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:
Lhook7---I think Larry S. has dug a hole for himself that he isn't going to be able to get out of!

You really feel comfortable saying this?

There's been accusations made and no rebuttal or informed differing opinion offered and you make this kind of condemnation? This thread is hours old and you write off how many folks?

I don't know Larry, Wade, or the Mexican Wrestling match deer in question, but I find your remarks more disparaging for you than anyone else.

No -06, this is what you said and this is what you got dumped on for.

Did I miss your retraction?

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:
Lhook7---I think Larry S. has dug a hole for himself that he isn't going to be able to get out of!

You really feel comfortable saying this?

There's been accusations made and no rebuttal or informed differing opinion offered and you make this kind of condemnation? This thread is hours old and you write off how many folks?

I don't know Larry, Wade, or the Mexican Wrestling match deer in question, but I find your remarks more disparaging for you than anyone else.

No -06, this is what you said and this is what you got dumped on for.

Did I miss your retraction?

***I will definitely offer an apology to Larry and the members here and now after this thread went further down the road and it seems that some things said were taken out of context. I've exchanged PMs with a couple of them that I feel know Larry pretty well and their comments hold him in the highest regard. That's good enough for me. Sorry Larry and I hope you have a prosperous and great 2014!!!

One further thing, as was stated by CHC, and that is as long as there is a "BOOK" of any sort, especially like the SCI one that lists these animals in a section with the shooters name, and that's all they are is shooters, this shit will continue because there are obviously enough people out there that want their name in lights and will do anything it takes to turn on the switch!

Nice comment TopGun.

I agree. As long as there are "books" and awards, people will be obsessed with recognition. I am not against someone receiving an award, I am against the 5% of hunters that are obsessed with the recognition and and care little about the hunt.

I have seen it get worse, 10 fold here in Utah in the past 20 years. Its now out of hand IMO.

Maybe Wade was trying to sell this big deer and get a "finders fee." I can absolutely see him asking someone if they are interested but not mentioning the high fence if there is no initial interest.

I agree with everyone that there is too much emphasis on the record book. There shouldn't even be an "estate" class.

I have had other people try and sell me large animals in a high fence. They always got a finders fee.

In broad terms, I see no problem with a record book. I do see a problem with those who will do anything to be in it.

Let me clarify that I have never bought one of those hunts. However a few have been offered over the years .

Amazing that a few of you pegged Larry as some kind of villain on this thread when all he did was decline an offer on a hunt he had no interest in. Thankfully, it would appear most have come to their senses.

I don't believe all the "heat" in most of these posts have anything to do with personal attacks, but they look like it for sure. I think the truth of the matter is that a small but significant number of hunters are absolutely repulsed by high fenced horn hunting and the current record book and rings of doom obsession. Some of us would hang up our guns before being any part of it. A smaller number of us actually believe that this growing trend, (see "the Hunting Report") wherein it is estimated that more than half of the Nelson's (as well as both deer) in Sonora are now farmed game, is a *#%#*^^*# disaster to the future of hunting. Yes it's true. Some people (maybe just me apparently) think that how we hunt will have a big friggin impact on how long we will get to hunt. With that being said, you can understand why some comments get heated. I care what happens so you can expect more of the same from me. I apologize in advance and will not take offense if you put me on ignore.

quote:

Originally posted by Navaluk:
I don't believe all the "heat" in most of these posts have anything to do with personal attacks, but they look like it for sure. I think the truth of the matter is that a small but significant number of hunters are absolutely repulsed by high fenced horn hunting and the current record book and rings of doom obsession. Some of us would hang up our guns before being any part of it. A smaller number of us actually believe that this growing trend, (see "the Hunting Report") wherein it is estimated that more than half of the Nelson's (as well as both deer) in Sonora are now farmed game, is a *#%#*^^*# disaster to the future of hunting. Yes it's true. Some people (maybe just me apparently) think that how we hunt will have a big friggin impact on how long we will get to hunt. With that being said, you can understand why some comments get heated. I care what happens so you can expect more of the same from me. I apologize in advance and will not take offense if you put me on ignore.

***I agree 100% with that assessment, so you're not alone Sir!

Like Larry - I've done numerous hunts over the years with Wade. Black bear, mountain lion, mule deer and bighorn. I was guided by 2 of the guys in the picture. I can promise you that these boys know how to hunt. The black bear (with dogs)that I took with them was one of the most physically difficult hunts I've ever done. (I've done 6 mountain sheep hunts) These guys were some of the best guides I've had in the last 20 years and they know how to work and hunt hard.

Fenced hunting is not for me and I don't know anything about the buck in question. But I've never know Wade or any of his guys to be anything but trustworthy.

Just my 2 cents.

Doug

+1.

These guys are real serious big game hunters. Some of the hunts are extremely physical that have been on with them.

FROM THE JANUARY ISSUE OF THE HUNTING REPORT


Mexico
TRIP-PLANNIN
g
FILE
Ray Lee
Correspondent
How the Rise of Hunting Enclosures in Sonora Affects
Your Next Desert Sheep or Deer Hunt
Editor’s Note: Corre
-
spondent Ray Lee checks
in this month with this
report on
Sonora
. Lee,
the former president of
FNAWS, the Founda
-
tion for North Ameri
-
can Wild Sheep (now the
Wild Sheep Foundation)
is a wildlife biologist who
recently participated in
an aerial wildlife survey
covering the entire state
of Sonora. He gives us
the details on the current
hunting scene there and
what traveling hunters
need to know before booking a trip.
H
unting in Sonora has changed
in recent years. Human
encroachment in some of
the best free-range hunting areas has
pushed game into smaller or less
ideal habitats. Trophy quality and
game numbers in various areas are
down and many landowners and
operators are now raising game and
conducting hunts behind a fence.
In fact, more than half of the desert
sheep in Sonora live behind wire.
Historically, Sonora has offered
free-range hunting for trophy Coues
white-tailed deer, desert mule deer,
desert bighorn sheep and javelina.
While free-range hunting is still
available and good trophies can still
be found, hunters need to be aware of
developments that may impact their
hunting experience in Sonora and
their ability to enter trophies from
there into the record books. More
than ever, hunters must ask the right
questions before venturing south of
the border.
On the positive side, more
hunting permits than ever before
are available in Sonora and prices
for sheep hunting have come down.
Permits issued for desert bighorn
sheep, for example, have increased
from 97 in 2009 to 123 in 2012. For
the 2012 season, there were 1,330
javelina, 1,623 mule deer, and 2,584
white-tailed deer permits issued.
This is due in large part
to the development of
enclosures.
The roots of many
of the changes in
Sonora are found in
the development of
Mexico’s UMA system
in 2000. UMA stands
for
Unidad de Manejo
para la Conservación de
la Vida Silvestre
, which
roughly corresponds
to a registered private
hunting ranch in the US.
Most land in Mexico is
private and even many
comunidades
and
ejidos
, communal
lands originally allotted to private
individuals for farming, have
reverted to private ownership.
Starting in 1997, Mexico
decentralized wildlife management.
What evolved was the UMA system,
in which private landowners
themselves are responsible
for wildlife management. For
sporthunting to take place on their
properties, landowners must register
their lands as a UMA. They must
then conduct annual wildlife surveys
and request authorization for specific
hunting permits. As in Europe (and
unlike in the US), the game on private
land belongs to the landowner.
This has had a significant
effect on the hunting in Sonora.
While plenty of truly free-range
hunting remains, the UMA system
has led numerous landowners to
high-fence their lands. Enclosures
ensure that the animals technically
“owned” by landowners remain
in their possession. Enclosures are
particularly prevalent for bighorn
sheep due to the significant monetary
value of the species. Some of the
bighorn sheep enclosures encompass
many thousands of acres.
The upside of this is increased
game numbers because managers can
propagate and control populations
more effectively. On many properties,
a smaller enclosure (a
criadero,
or
breeding area) is used to rapidly
increase the numbers of animals.
In many cases, select animals are
released from the enclosures onto
the landowner’s property outside the
enclosure. This area can be game-
fenced or simply cattle-fenced, with
outfitters using water and feeders to
keep animals on their properties.
Hunters may then pursue
the game in this “free-range”
environment. As in Texas, outfitters
construct blinds overlooking feeders
and water supplies. In my recent
aerial survey of Sonora I saw many
blinds. Many hunters are very happy
with this arrangement, as they will
get to look at more animals than they
would tracking game in the desert.
So, if you are booking a hunt in
Sonora, be sure to ask how the game
is managed and hunted.
As you might imagine,
trophy quality of animals raised
in enclosures is excellent and has
propped up the overall trophy
quality for Sonora for some years
now. The average scores and ages for
free-ranging animals have declined
slightly due to pressure on habitat
and in some cases overhunting and/
or poaching. Human populations
are growing in Sonora. The result
is that game is pushed into areas of
less suitable habitat. Game numbers,
age-class and trophy quality are
all affected. With this pressure,
enclosures and
criaderos
have helped
to preserve game in Sonora and
assure that hunting opportunities
continue.
Of course, record keeping
organizations such as the Boone
and Crockett Club do not recognize
animals harvested on estate
enclosures. Neither does OVIS
Grand Slam Club nor the Wild
Sheep Foundation. SCI distinguishes
between free-range and estate hunts,
adjusting the minimums and medal
scores accordingly. All organizations
are aware of the gray areas in
Sonora, and review individual cases.
The inability to enter trophies in
some books has discouraged
(continued)

I have just spoken to Wade on this matter.

I questioned him specifically on the nature of the hunt. He said the following:

1- It was a high fenced hunt and the client knew it when he bought the hunt.

2- The score sheet (presumably SCI, I didn't ask) has a place to mark if it was an estate hunt. The score sheet was clearly marked "estate" according to Wade.

Based upon my past experiences with the guy, I believe him. He has never misrepresented anything to me or anyone I know who has hunted with him.

The client knew. The score sheet was properly filled out. I fail to find fault with that. The picture doesn't contain a misrepresentation. It (arguably) has an omission by not including the word estate. I have seen many similar pictures of trophies taken by Wade's clients. They all are the same format and contain similar information.

At this point, my opinion is that Wade did nothing wrong. Some may not like the high fence hunt. It is up to everyone to decide whether that is acceptable to them personally. It isn't for me but I am not going to fault others that go on such hunts.

quote:

the picture doesn't contain a misrepresentation. It (arguably) has an omission by not including the word estate.

***How can you say in one sentence that the picture doesn't contain a misrepresentation and then turn around in the next and say it has an omission and see nothing wrong with that? By omitting that word it is made to appear that it is a new fair chase world record. I was in consumer protection with the State of MI for over 30 years and one part of my job was looking for adds and signs that misrepresented what a customer might be purchasing. Sir, when there are a number of different record books and this deer would only qualify as an estate animal in the SCI book it most certainly was a misrepresentation to not have that on the picture, no ifs, ands, or buts and I believe that is exactly why Drummmond started this thread. As others have stated, what was Wade going to say when faced with the picture of that drugged deer?

You are just dying to find something wrong. If this is a pending estate hunted word record, what is wrong? You are interpreting this as representing this as free ranging . It says that no where. Please show me one word on that picture that is wrong.

It seems that you are assuming that you think you know what was meant when they sent the picture. You don't .

Welcome to TopGuns world. He runs from one "Buddy" to another trying to find someone that he can develop an on-line friendship with.

Looking back on TopGuns activity, he is a lot like a ribbon blowing in the wind, whichever way the wind blows, so blows TopGun until he finds someone else that he thinks he can align himself with.

I have no dog in this fight, but if the outfitter offered this as anything other than a high fence shoot, he was wrong.

Sorry if you can't understand plain English because I stated exactly what is wrong with the picture when it doesn't state exactly what record it will break. It's what's NOT on the picture that's the big problem!!! That's exactly what Drummond has stated about the picture if you would read his posts closer. Here is one quote of his that he's made that's exactly what I'm saying, so don't jump on me unless you jump on him too!!! Drummond stated: "I still feel that by not coming out and saying what it is it's a blatant misrepresentation of facts and I find it funny that just a few days prior to this going public there were people associated with the Lemons claiming that they never hunted behind a fence." It's just like a sign out on the road for gasoline that states a price per gallon that sounds great and when you get into the station you find out you have to pay cash and/or buy a certain amount before you qualify for that price. If you took a poll of people that look at that picture I'd bet money that the majority would figure it's a fair chase B&C record because that's the biggy of them all.

As far as the CHC post, I have no idea what that gibberish is that he posted because it makes no sense at all. It's also funny that he said I was being placed on his ignore list, but obviously he read what I wrote and then must have put me right back on so I couldn't send him a PM. Seeing as that's the case, I'll just tell him to take a hike on this post and see if he says anything more, LOL!

So if I don't "Come out and say,..." its dishonest?

I've never referred to any of my Alaskan hunts as "Free Range" or "Low Fenced", so I take it you figgered them to be High Fenced and therefore by my omission I've lied?

I've never specifically mentioned stopping my bird hunts once I've taken the legal daily bag limit and so you assume I've gone over and am an outlaw?

I've never acknowledged being left handed and so you presume me to be right handed, therefore I misled you?

"Pending World Record" or whatever it said,.......who cares? Apparently you. Roland Ward, Pope & Young? Scott's Dillingham Exclusive Finest? Topgun, are you worried about your spot being bumped?

I don't believe Teddy Roosevelt and the rest of the founders of the Boone &Crockett Club would be any prouder of you and your shrill, hysterical demand for conformity that they would be about the farmed deer.

Mr King:

You hit the nail on the head sir.

quote:

Originally posted by Navaluk:
I don't believe all the "heat" in most of these posts have anything to do with personal attacks, but they look like it for sure. I think the truth of the matter is that a small but significant number of hunters are absolutely repulsed by high fenced horn hunting and the current record book and rings of doom obsession. Some of us would hang up our guns before being any part of it. A smaller number of us actually believe that this growing trend, (see "the Hunting Report") wherein it is estimated that more than half of the Nelson's (as well as both deer) in Sonora are now farmed game, is a *#%#*^^*# disaster to the future of hunting. Yes it's true. Some people (maybe just me apparently) think that how we hunt will have a big friggin impact on how long we will get to hunt. With that being said, you can understand why some comments get heated. I care what happens so you can expect more of the same from me. I apologize in advance and will not take offense if you put me on ignore.

I agree with you completely. I don't bother saying it much because if you are on this short list you generally receive as much negative attention as if you shoot canned lions or like MS.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
So if I don't "Come out and say,..." its dishonest?

I've never referred to any of my Alaskan hunts as "Free Range" or "Low Fenced", so I take it you figgered them to be High Fenced and therefore by my omission I've lied?

I've never specifically mentioned stopping my bird hunts once I've taken the legal daily bag limit and so you assume I've gone over and am an outlaw?

I've never acknowledged being left handed and so you presume me to be right handed, therefore I misled you?

"Pending World Record" or whatever it said,.......who cares? Apparently you. Roland Ward, Pope & Young? Scott's Dillingham Exclusive Finest? Topgun, are you worried about your spot being bumped?

I don't believe Teddy Roosevelt and the rest of the founders of the Boone &Crockett Club would be any prouder of you and your shrill, hysterical demand for conformity that they would be about the farmed deer.

***First off, your smartass comment about "my spot" was just that when I've openly stated a number of times that all these "books" ought to be burned!!! I and a lot of others, including Drummond, who started the thread and posted the picture care!!! Again I will refer you to what Drummond stated and it's the exact same thing as I posted. Jump all over his ass and not just mine if you disagree, but the crap you just posted is as far from what we're talking about and stretching things that it shouldn't have even been posted! The picture is outright misleading if it doesn't say what record it's talking about and don't tell me that the word estate couldn't have easily been put on the picture to correctly say that it was canned. Larry Shore's post was absolute BS trying to back up his buddy that he's hunted with many times and I could care less how much of an upstanding guy he is on this site! Whether the word was left out intentionally or unitentionally is only known by who did the picture and caption. The fact that it's out there is what is being discussed and the other comments made by drummond that guides were saying they don't hunt high fences makes it look like it was posted that way intentionally.

quote:

Originally posted by Skyline:

quote:

Originally posted by Navaluk:
I don't believe all the "heat" in most of these posts have anything to do with personal attacks, but they look like it for sure. I think the truth of the matter is that a small but significant number of hunters are absolutely repulsed by high fenced horn hunting and the current record book and rings of doom obsession. Some of us would hang up our guns before being any part of it. A smaller number of us actually believe that this growing trend, (see "the Hunting Report") wherein it is estimated that more than half of the Nelson's (as well as both deer) in Sonora are now farmed game, is a *#%#*^^*# disaster to the future of hunting. Yes it's true. Some people (maybe just me apparently) think that how we hunt will have a big friggin impact on how long we will get to hunt. With that being said, you can understand why some comments get heated. I care what happens so you can expect more of the same from me. I apologize in advance and will not take offense if you put me on ignore.

I agree with you completely. I don't bother saying it much because if you are on this short list you generally receive as much negative attention as if you shoot canned lions or like MS.

You got that Sir. Look at the attention I'm getting in this thread!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
So if I don't "Come out and say,..." its dishonest?

I've never referred to any of my Alaskan hunts as "Free Range" or "Low Fenced", so I take it you figgered them to be High Fenced and therefore by my omission I've lied?

I've never specifically mentioned stopping my bird hunts once I've taken the legal daily bag limit and so you assume I've gone over and am an outlaw?

I've never acknowledged being left handed and so you presume me to be right handed, therefore I misled you?

"Pending World Record" or whatever it said,.......who cares? Apparently you. Roland Ward, Pope & Young? Scott's Dillingham Exclusive Finest? Topgun, are you worried about your spot being bumped?

I don't believe Teddy Roosevelt and the rest of the founders of the Boone &Crockett Club would be any prouder of you and your shrill, hysterical demand for conformity that they would be about the farmed deer.

***First off, your smartass comment about "my spot" was just that when I've openly stated a number of times that all these "books" ought to be burned!!! I and a lot of others, including Drummond, who started the thread and posted the picture care!!! Again I will refer you to what Drummond stated and it's the exact same thing as I posted. Jump all over his ass and not just mine if you disagree, but the crap you just posted is as far from what we're talking about and stretching things that it shouldn't have even been posted! The picture is outright misleading if it doesn't say what record it's talking about and don't tell me that the word estate couldn't have easily been put on the picture to correctly say that it was canned. Larry Shore's post was absolute BS trying to back up his buddy that he's hunted with many times and I could care less how much of an upstanding guy he is on this site! Whether the word was left out intentionally or unitentionally is only known by who did the picture and caption. The fact that it's out there is what is being discussed and the other comments made by drummond that guides were saying they don't hunt high fences makes it look like it was posted that way intentionally.

This is like talking to a rock.

See TopGun, I can have you on ignore and just by reading other peoples posts and responses, see that you are still the same POS. You try to buddy up with people as long as they view things your way and agree with you. When they finally get wise to your little game, you fall out with them and look for a "New Best Friend".

TG, just so you won't frustrate yourself anymore, I put your email address on the list of spam. Now I don't know that the PTB's of AR can do anything about members harassing other members via there private email sites, but I can damn sure block your pathetic assed nonsense from showing up in my personal, NON AR, email. If you had any brains, you could have sent the same lame assed message by pm here on the site, but your too much of a titty baby to do that. You have a wonderful life you pathetic fool. Oh yes, be sure and send all the emails to my address you want to, they are all going to be chit canned anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
So if I don't "Come out and say,..." its dishonest?

I've never referred to any of my Alaskan hunts as "Free Range" or "Low Fenced", so I take it you figgered them to be High Fenced and therefore by my omission I've lied?

I've never specifically mentioned stopping my bird hunts once I've taken the legal daily bag limit and so you assume I've gone over and am an outlaw?

I've never acknowledged being left handed and so you presume me to be right handed, therefore I misled you?

"Pending World Record" or whatever it said,.......who cares? Apparently you. Roland Ward, Pope & Young? Scott's Dillingham Exclusive Finest? Topgun, are you worried about your spot being bumped?

I don't believe Teddy Roosevelt and the rest of the founders of the Boone &Crockett Club would be any prouder of you and your shrill, hysterical demand for conformity that they would be about the farmed deer.

***First off, your smartass comment about "my spot" was just that when I've openly stated a number of times that all these "books" ought to be burned!!! I and a lot of others, including Drummond, who started the thread and posted the picture care!!! Again I will refer you to what Drummond stated and it's the exact same thing as I posted. Jump all over his ass and not just mine if you disagree, but the crap you just posted is as far from what we're talking about and stretching things that it shouldn't have even been posted! The picture is outright misleading if it doesn't say what record it's talking about and don't tell me that the word estate couldn't have easily been put on the picture to correctly say that it was canned. Larry Shore's post was absolute BS trying to back up his buddy that he's hunted with many times and I could care less how much of an upstanding guy he is on this site! Whether the word was left out intentionally or unitentionally is only known by who did the picture and caption. The fact that it's out there is what is being discussed and the other comments made by drummond that guides were saying they don't hunt high fences makes it look like it was posted that way intentionally.

This is like talking to a rock.

***Look, I'm not dying to find anything and the previous comment is also incorrect because more than one of us has the same feelings about the picture, or can't you read what others have also stated?! I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this, but just remember your statements would also have to include Drummond because my statement is doing nothing more than echoing what he posted and stated when he started this thread and has reiterated more than once since then!!! Have a good evening!

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
TG, just so you won't frustrate yourself anymore, I put your email address on the list of spam. Now I don't know that the PTB's of AR can do anything about members harassing other members via there private email sites, but I can damn sure block your pathetic assed nonsense from showing up in my personal, NON AR, email. If you had any brains, you could have sent the same lame assed message by pm here on the site, but your too much of a titty baby to do that. You have a wonderful life you pathetic fool. Oh yes, be sure and send all the emails to my address you want to, they are all going to be chit canned anyway.

Stay the hell out of other's business and quit posting BS and you wouldn't have to worry about getting PMs or emails from anyone! FYI Mr. Smartass, when you have a person on ignore like you do me the site will not allow that person to send you a PM because that was the first thing I tried. Now continue to be a chickenshit out on the site where everybody can see what you are MR. PH Hunting Consultant, LOL, and I'll just post out on the site so everybody can read them and laugh!!!

Sounds to me like you should follow your own advice. You are opening your mouth when you have no knowledge of the facts, a common occurrence on your posts .

Wade says:

1- the client in was a high fence hunt. Seems to me it is kind of hard to have a high fence hunt and NOT know it. Do you have any evidence to the contrary ?

2- the scoring sheet is checked as "estate". Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

Is this just another case of you talking shit AGAIN?

Funny thing, a normal/reasonably intelligent human would have the capability to understand that if they are blocked from sending someone a pm on this or any other site, then sending them harassing emails on their private addresses would be totally out of the question.

Of course I guess that common sense does not apply to trolls.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Sounds to me like you should follow your own advice. You are opening your mouth when you have no knowledge of the facts, a common occurrence on your posts .

Wade says:

1- the client in was a high fence hunt. Seems to me it is kind of hard to have a high fence hunt and NOT know it. Do you have any evidence to the contrary ?

2- the scoring sheet is checked as "estate". Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

Is this just another case of you talking shit AGAIN?

***For a fellow that appears to have made it well in your profession and a standup guy as some stated, you have a complete lack of reading comprehension and are still not addressing what is being discussed after making a contradictory post about the picture in one of your initial posts. One more time:
#1---We are not talking about the client not knowing it was a high fence hunt and nobody, including myself, said he did or didn't know until your post saying what Wade told you.
#2---Nobody said anything contrary to what you also said about the way the score sheet was filled out.
***The only "fact" and thing being discussed is the lack of the word estate on the picture that went out all over the internet. Now go tell Drummond he's talking shit because when you tell me that you're telling him that because all I'm doing is repeating what he posted more than once. What is your problem? It appears that since maybe you know Drummond in some capacity that you're skirting the fact that he said the same thing I am!

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Funny thing, a normal/reasonably intelligent human would have the capability to understand that if they are blocked from sending someone a pm on this or any other site, then sending them harassing emails on their private addresses would be totally out of the question.

Of course I guess that common sense does not apply to trolls.

***Look you big, dumbass chickenshit! A normal, intelligent person wouldn't be posting your BS. You're just mad because I called you out on several things when I disagreed and like I told you before I'll continue doing that and if I agree with something I'll tell you that too! That's the way debates and big men discuss things or haven't you figured that out yet? Your last post is showing exactly what I stated because nobody posted up my last one for you to read, so you are obviously taking me off ignore just long enough to read my posts and then putting me right back on so I can't respond by PM and now you've put me on the spam list on your email. If that isn't a chickenshit way of doing things, I don't know what is! Go fill your f***ing deer feeders and STFU!!!

For what it is worth, which isn't much, SCI always announces "New Word Records" as just that. The fact they are estate records is normally documented in the caption.

In fact, when I read the thread title I thought, "Hmmm...estate or free range?"

Hey,I know it has been cold outside, but some off you guys need to push back from that keyboard.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
For what it is worth, which isn't much, SCI always announces "New Word Records" as just that. The fact they are estate records is normally documented in the caption.

In fact, when I read the thread title I thought, "Hmmm...estate or free range?"

Hey,I know it has been cold outside, but some off you guys need to push back from that keyboard.

AZ---That is the whole problem with this picture and why Drummond and I feel it misrepresents the animal. It was not put out by SCI and anyone that knows how they operate would pretty much figure what the scoop was on that deer. The fact is that it was put out on the internet by the Outfitter without anything saying it was an estate kill or that it was an SCI pending record. To top it off Drummond stated that the guides were all saying they never hunt high fence, so that even makes it look more like it was done intentionally IMHO and that's all it is, my opinion! Have a Happy New Year guy!!!