quote:

You are getting as short sighted as Mac also. The founding fathers of this country never stated hunting to be a right. If they did it would be in your Constitution.

quote:

If the ranchers truely damaged the elk herd do you think he will get $80,000 next year for lease money?

quote:

By the way JTEX I never knew you were part of the "Elite

quote:

Here is another question you won't answer. A young child plays in your yard, when you notice a coyote displaying aggressive rabid like behavior corners the child and might attack. Do you poach the coyote?

quote:

OK, "smarter"...

Just because that is how you think in Texas doesn't make it right or even appealing to anyone anywhere else.

There are enough biologists on this board who also have degrees who would appreciate it if you would stop slandering the profession by opening your mouth.

quote:

I am not supposed to worry about the management of wildlife in Colorado after I choose to spend money there???????

quote:

Are you smoking "crack" or something?????? How, please tell me, in your mind, does shooting an a non-game animal with a contagious and fatal disease, threatening the life of a human being. Compare to the wholesale slaughter of GAME animals?????????? Did I miss something? Did these Elk have Rabies? Did they have some child cornered, were they going to the child????

quote:

Originally posted by smarterthanu:

By the way there were plenty of things I posted witch were factual.

quote:

Originally posted by smarterthanu:
Be thankful someone got you to look for the truth.

quote:

Originally posted by graybird:

quote:

Originally posted by smarterthanu:
I stated a fact not an opinion, and another poster proved it for me by quoting directly out of the state wildlife handbook. If you can't see my factual opinion was correct then you are blind.

Just exactly who is blind here? Could it possibly be you?

quote:

Originally posted by smarterthanu:
If in Texas it takes more than Two weeks for the state to issue a permit while the damage is being done, I have no problem with any landowner mowing down 34 deer to save his business or even in the interest of public safety, plus the state should be heald fully liable for the destruction caused by the public's property.

quote:

Originally posted by smarterthanu:
Do not take the word of the TP&W department to quote you law either. They niether pass law or judge it.

quote:

Originally posted by smarterthanu:
I have worked in cooperation with TP&W off and on since I was 18 years old. Many of my friends family have or still do work for TP&W. They do great work but they know very, very little about law.

quote:

Originally posted by smarterthanu:
Last, go talk to any taxidermist you can and you will see most of us know more than the average person about law.

quote:

Originally posted by graybird:
I was also told I can anonymously report any illegal hunting activity to Operation Game Thief at 1-800-792-GAME. Do I need to make a call?

quote:

Originally posted by smarterthanu:
The talking "Hick shit" was a comment about argueing wildlife management. So keep that one little fact straight OKIE.

quote:

Originally posted by smarterthanu:
Don't be so self-righteous graybird

quote:

Originally posted by graybird:

quote:

Originally posted by smarterthanu:
Have a little bit more open mind that you might not know what the hell your talking about and then you might not look so foolish.

You might want to try swallowing your shallow pride and take a bit of your own advice.

quote:

Originally posted by smarterthanu:

quote:

Are you smoking "crack" or something?????? How, please tell me, in your mind, does shooting an a non-game animal with a contagious and fatal disease, threatening the life of a human being. Compare to the wholesale slaughter of GAME animals?????????? Did I miss something? Did these Elk have Rabies? Did they have some child cornered, were they going to the child????

Read the post by Graybird quoting the permitment of shooting protected animals which according to the states definition now coyotes fall under. It says specifically that you have to retain a permit for it and that it will not be issued within 24 hours of the request. This is state law. Go Read it. If you kill that Coyote you're a poacher.

Also you are gauranteed a right to breath under the clause "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
You missed the point about "Elite". You said I only want the Elite to hunt, but in reality I want you to keep hunting if you can afford it. So, I hope you work hard and remain elite.

Now answer my question. Do you shoot the Coyote?

quote:

Originally posted by graybird:
Landowners or their agents may take nuisance fur-bearing animals in any number by any means at any time on that person's land without the need for a hunting or trapping license. However, fur-bearing animals or their pelts taken for these purposes may not be retained or possessed by anyone at any time except licensed trappers during the lawful open season and possession periods.

Here is the link to the above statements.

quote:

Thanks for the help in hanging JTEX.

quote:

Originally posted by smarterthanu:
Coyotes fall under "protected" Graybird.

quote:

Originally posted by smarterthanu:
You will also see that gray bird failed to post the second paragraph on his page three link which also states you must get approval from TP&W.

So now you can see JTEX we both condone poaching. The difference is I can handle the stigma but you are to self-righteous to deal with it.

quote:

Originally posted by smarterthanu:
Which question would you like answered and I will certianly do so.

quote:

The below information can be found here.
NonGame Species
Armadillos*
Bobcats*
Coyotes*
Flying squirrels
Frogs
Ground squirrels
Mountain lions
Porcupines
Prairie dogs
Rabbits
Turtles

Does not include feral hog (see Exotic Animals).

No closed season. These animals may be hunted at any time by any lawful means or methods on private property. Public hunting lands may have restrictions. A hunting license is required.

quote:

You are swinging well but missing.

quote:

§ 43.021. PROTECTED WILDLIFE. In this subchapter,
"protected wildlife" means all indigenous mammals, indigenous
birds, indigenous reptiles, indigenous amphibians, indigenous
fish, and other indigenous aquatic life the taking, collecting,
holding, possession, propagation, release, display, or transport
of which is governed by a provision of this code other than this
subchapter or by a commission rule adopted under any provision of
this code other than this subchapter and includes endangered
species.

quote:

Originally posted by smarterthanu:
JTEX,

According to section 43 of the TP&W wildlife code you still condone poaching. Graybird is doing some good work trying to bail you out but has yet to find the evidence.

quote:

I condone poaching when the state has failed to manage its property and thier problem becomes my costly problem.

quote:

Originally posted by smarterthanu:
Mac,

I am not trying to pull the light off of me. I am just saying that all of yall are in the same boat. Yall want to look down your selfrighteous noses at me when I am honest but in reality if your lives or livelyhoods are on the line yall will do the exact same thing.

quote:

Originally posted by graybird:

quote:

Originally posted by smarterthanu:
Have a little bit more open mind that you might not know what the hell your talking about and then you might not look so foolish.

You might want to try swallowing your shallow pride and take a bit of your own advice.

quote:

Originally posted by graybird:
Holy crap you can even get a bounty with a coyote in some counties:

quote:

Originally posted by smarterthanu:

quote:

§ 43.021. PROTECTED WILDLIFE. In this subchapter,
"protected wildlife" means all indigenous mammals, indigenous
birds, indigenous reptiles, indigenous amphibians, indigenous
fish, and other indigenous aquatic life the taking, collecting,
holding, possession, propagation, release, display, or transport
of which is governed by a provision of this code other than this
subchapter or by a commission rule adopted under any provision of
this code other than this subchapter and includes endangered
species.

Nowhere in section 43 of the TP&W code does it list any difference in depredation permits between fur bearers, or game animals or non -game species. According to this law the difference you and JTEX keep bringing up is irrelevant. Any of the "protected" animals in section 43 which includes pretty much all indegenous wildlife, why pigs are excluded, therefore have to get the permit you before mentioned. NOWHERE in section 43 does it give exclusion to fur-bearing or non-game animals.

" § 825.033. ARANSAS, BEE, REFUGIO, OR SAN PATRICIO
COUNTY: RATTLESNAKES, WOLVES, COYOTES, PANTHERS, BOBCATS, AND
OTHER PREDATORY ANIMALS. "

Something else wrong with this law you just posted. Wolves located in Texas are on the Endangered species list set forth by the Federal government. Federal Wildlife law overrides State or county policy so something is fishy here. Once again where are you finding these laws that don't prove anything. Maybe I can go there and find laws that don't prove anything either.

Ask me a question Graybird. I want to answer one, but I don't feel like trying to sort through the ones that are real and the ones that are retorical.

quote:

Originally posted by smarterthanu:
quote:
Now here is the funny part Mac. The only Federaly certified State Wildlife Crime Lab is in the state of Texas. Paid for by Texas' private hunting.


Guess this one run by the United States Fish and Wildlife Service in Ashland, OR doesn't count huh? http://www.lab.fws.gov/contact.html

Just one more instance to prove you are DUMBERTHANSHIT.

One loves to possess arms, though they hope never have occasion for them.
Thomas Jefferson to George Washington 1796

Do you stil stand by this Mac?

Then you obviously reject the condoning of poaching coyotes by JTEX here in my state, and even worse the condoning of Graybird to poach endangered species in Texas.

What do you do for a living Mac? Please tell me.

quote:

TEXAS PARKS AND WILDLIFE DEPARTMENT
Lab Director or Forensic Specialist Name: Beverly Villarreal
Title: Conservation Scientist
Address: A. E. Wood Hatchery, 507 Staples Road
City: San Marcos
State/province: Texas
Postal Code: 78666
Telephone: 572-353-3483
Fax: 512-353-0629
E-mail: beverly_villarreal@tpwd.state.tx.us

How many staff work on wildlife forensics?
One (1) Full Time

What forensic techniques are available at (within) your laboratory?
Species identification by serological methods (fish, mammals, birds, reptiles); DNA gender analysis (mammals); DNA fingerprinting (mammals; number of individuals, matching); fatty acid profiling of fish muscle for determination of farm-raised vs. wild fish; hair identification (limited).

What species can be identified with these techniques?
Typically do white-tailed deer vs. North American cervids and exotic deer (Fallow, Axis, Sika, etc.); also hog, canine, feline (bobcat vs. mountain lion), cow, raccoon, rabbit. For birds, do turkey, quail, dove. For fish, can do freshwater bass, catfish, crappie, etc., and for saltwater, typically have most requests for red drum, black drum and spotted sea trout. The techniques used can be applied to a number of species. Have done alligator and some turtles. Just depends on what reference samples available for controls.

What new forensic techniques or other data are being developed within your laboratory?
Fatty acid profiling of fish muscle; investigations into conditions under which profiles can change. Three studies were conducted. The first investigated prolonged refrigerator storage effects on altering lineolic acid level. The second involved changing the diet of farm-raised fish to natural forage for six weeks and looking at the range in linoleic acid. The third as changing the diet of wild fish to commercial feed and looking at change in linoleic acid after at least five weeks.

What wildlife forensic techniques do you feel are still needed to be developed either in your laboratory or at otherlaboratories for later adaptation at your laboratory?
Expand tetranucleotide microsatellite work for DNA fingerprinting to other species besides deer.

Is your laboratory (i.e., staff and equipment) available for use by other state (both intra- and inter-) or federal agencies?
Yes. State and federal. Have done work for several states and USFWS

Are fees charged to these outside agencies for forensic analyses?
Currently no. May depend on scale and scope of case.

Are fees charged to these outside agencies for court testimony?
No. Outside agencies provide travel and per diem. No fees for analyst time.

Are personnel from your laboratory available for international court testimony, if needed as a result of your analyses?
Yes. If costs are paid.

Is your laboratory certified by any private organization or state, provincial or federal agency? No.

Are laboratory personnel certified as court expert witnesses? No.

Briefly describe your procedures for evidence control:
Have a chain of custody that is completed when evidence is received. Usually only I handle the evidence after that point. Evidence is stored (if it’s perishable) in an ultra-cold freezer that can be locked. The evidence is assigned a case number and details are logged into a case book. The evidence is thereafter identified by this case number. Once the analyses are complete, I send an evidence disposition instruction form with the report to the warden, who completes the form and instructs me to retain the evidence until they can pick it up, ship it back to them, or throw it away.

What form of notification or documentation is submitted to the submitting officer or agency upon completion of the analysis?
I send a report in the form of a letter, describing the evidence, what analyses were requested, the analyses performed, the results, and the conclusion.

Briefly describe your physical facilities:
Two labs housed inside a hatchery field office/building.

Do you use any other laboratories for wildlife forensic tests?
Yes

Do you use University or other state laboratories for wildlife forensic analyses?
Yes. Currently have a case being worked by the veterinary lab at UC-Davis involving DNA fingerprinting of dog hair.

Do you use private consultants, contractors, or research labs for wildlife forensic analyses?
Yes. Use PE AGGEN for turkey sex determination.

Can your lab personnel travel to present conference papers or workshops, regionally, nationally, or internationally?
Regional Yes
National Yes
International ? (Depends on the budget)

quote:

Then you obviously reject the condoning of poaching coyotes by JTEX here in my state, and even worse the condoning of Graybird to poach endangered species in Texas

quote:

What do you do for a living Mac? Please tell me.

quote:

You claimed earlier that you posted a Top ten anywhere list which you never did. /QUOTE]

Where did I ever say I was posting a top 10 list? Here is exctly what I posted:

[QUOTE]And since you obviously don't know what you are talking about, I will give you some info taken directly from the 2005 Boone and Crockett Record Book which is the most current one I have. All these listing are only taken fom the top 20. I admit this may not be fully up to date because I don't have a newer record book handy.

Rifle Kills:

Cougar The #4 Mountain Lion was taken in Acheleta County Colorado in 2001. The #13 Mountain Lion (former world record) was taken in Meeker County Colorado in 1901 by none other than Teddy Roosevelt.

ELK The #2 ELK (former world record) was taken in Dark Canyon Colorado in 1899. It was not surpassed until 1968. The #19 Elk was taken in Summit County Colorado in 1967.

TYPICAL MULE DEER The #6 Mule Deer was taken in Delta County Colorado in 1972. The #7 Mule Deer was taken in Delta County Colorado in 1958. The #7 Mule Deer was taken in Gypsum Creek Colorado in 1967. The #8 Mule Deer was taken in Moffat County Colorado in 1982. The #9 Mule Deer was taken in Garfield County Colorado in 1971. The #14 Mule Deer was taken in Grand County Colorado in 1963.

NON-TYPICAL MULE DEER The #11 Mule Deer as taken in Montezuma County Colorado in 1972. The #12 Mule Deer was taken in Norwood Colorado in 1954. The # 16 Mule Deer was taken in Elk Creek Colorado in 1886. The # 17 Mule Deer was taken in Eagle County Colorado in 1972. The # 18 Mule Deer was taken in Paonia County Colorado in 1965.

SHIRAS MOOSE The # 6 Shiras Moose was taken in Larimer County Colorado in 1997. The #9 Shiras Moose was taken in Jackson County Colorado in 1995.

PRONGHORN The # 6 Pronghorn was taken in Weld County Colorado in 1965.

ARCHERY KILLS:

BIGHORN SHEEP The former #1 Bighorn Sheep was taken in El Paso County Colorado in 1983.

MTN GOAT The former #1 Mountain Goat was taken in Park County Colorado in 1988.

TYPICAL MULE DEER The #1 Mule Deer was taken in White River Natl Forest Colorado in 1979.

NON_TYPICAL MULE DEER The #1 Mule Deer was taken in Morgan County Colorado in 1987.

quote:

Originally posted by MAC:

So. it appears as though while Texas does have a lab, it only has 1 emplyee and it is not Federally Certified and the employee of the lab is not certified to testify in court. In other words, it isn't all you cracked it up to be.

quote:

That basically means I have spent more than 2 decades defending your right to talk stupid.