quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
5k is a lot of money

Not for some folks.
(although it is for me)



The pendulum is swinging on African hunting. Just where it is in its arc is debatable.

I tend to feel much more comfortable around people who wouldn't through $50 (fifty) dollars around like it was given to them.

Those who think 5k isn't a lot of money should feel blessed....if they don't then I don't know what to say

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by tim416:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by tim416:

quote:

Originally posted by wrenchmaster:
Martin, so things are bad in the safari business; well cry me a river! Do your fellow outfitters think you are exempt from any consequences for your actions? Could you please explain how the loss of wildlife, less money for the native population, or all the other calamities you list are our problem? When the daily rates, trophy fees, and a whole list of other charges used to separate the client from their money keep going up, do you expect no change in the client's choices? Basically, I'm saying you, your fellow outfitters, and the African governments have wet your bed, so now you can sleep in it.

Wrenchmaster, respectively they are your problem if you cannot afford the resulting increases in price. I have been working in Zimbabwe since 1996 and have a great deal of respect as well as concern for many of the outfitters and PH's in that country. Many of the implications I read here are that the PH's and outfitters are solely responsible for the increases in the cost of a safari.

How many of you recall when Zim Parks and Wildlife raised the cost of trophy fees on buff from an average of $2500 to $5000? This announcement by the Zim government was made in January, (with no warning) during the show season when outfitters were in the States selling hunts. For the most part, the hunts affected had been sold the previous year. Were the PH's and outfitters to eat this increase, or like any business anywhere else pass this cost along to the consumer? If I have to answer this for you please stop reading.

The cost of the government concessions, which are auctioned off every five years, increased proportionately as well. Land Cruisers, which have a limited life span and cost upwards of sixty thousand US have to be amortized and replaced during this time frame.
I could go on Ad nauseam.

I am not trying to justify the cost of a safari in Zimbabwe, I have seen it triple since my first of many trips starting in 1996.
My point is to simply aim the frustration to the proper source, the global economy in general and the increased costs imposed by the Zim government
that leaves an outfitter no choice but to pass along these costs to maintain their current profit margin, (which by the way is not great),
This is no less than any business person anywhere in the world would do.

If there is a Zim PH or outfitter that is making a higher profit by percentage today than in 1995 or 2005 please chime in and I will gladly beg forgiveness for my naivety.

Class warfare?

Not true, I can afford to go do these hunts we are referring to, I just choose not to anymore. I was just last week looking at a Stone Sheep/Goat/Mt Caribou hunt that was showcased here a couple years ago, I looked at the price, looked at the level of enjoyment and the enjoyment of having the trophies and decided it just isn't worth it. I think we as sport hunters get caught up in all this and don't really realize what we're doing spending 40-50 or even 100K on a hunting trip.

Not at all did I mean to indicate "class warfare". Most of these hunts I speak of are out of my price range. Simply meant that as these prices have escalated over time it has eliminated a great deal of the hunting population. This becomes problematic as the outfitters are now competing for a smaller percentage of the hunting community who can afford them, or choose to pay the asking price. And yes the consumer votes with their wallet by not buying but if the price cannot be controlled by the producer,(outfitter) it will change nothing.

And yes Baretta, no one is guaranteed a fixed profit margin, but every business in existence has a operating margin that must justify the owners level of liability, financial and otherwise.

As I stated before, I am in no way trying to justify the cost of a safari today, nor insinuate that if you cannot afford it "to bad". I simply am trying to relay that the fault does not lay solely or even in a small majority of the outfitters control.

Got it. That still doesn't give the operators a pass. The impetus is on them to get their own game department in line, to get their own citizens under poaching control. These guys, too easily turn to their clients with hand extended and want to make it our responsibility.

Im done with this stuff, once the prices cycle back to reality, I'll re-engage. But until then, Brazil, Guyana, Suriname, Costa Rica

I am going to give South American fishing a try in 2017. Easy flight, same time zone, 1/4 the price of Africa, no gun travel issues and easy taxidermy.

Steve will send a email about equipment and gear.

Mike

There's one spot open on my next dates, December 14th-21st. Merry Christmas.

I could not care for fishing.I would not go fishing even if you paid me to.At present I only like to go to Africa and hunt.If I could do a hunt like the one I did last year for every two years I would be a very happy person.Unfortunately it seems that it is getting increasingly difficult to make money-things are just too competitive and the ball rarely seems to want to bounce the right way.

I work internationally mostly to an American market and because of the strength of the US dollar our profits are up. Every US dollar that I bring in is getting us about 15-20% more profit over last year. That's even allowing for the fact that all our supplies, parts, fuels, etc. are imported and are paid for in US dollars.



In Arica, what I don't understand is how outfits set their day rates. I can hunt the same camp with the same PH and all the same amenities for different animals and pay different rates. Buff hunts are $AAAA/day, Elephants is $BBBB/day, Leopard is $CCCC/day, Hippo is $DDD, plains game is $EEE/day. In what world does that make sense?

There are two different Africas, ZIM, Botswana, TZ, etc. and then there is South Africa and Namibia (Not the Caprivi).

How the South African and Namibian outfitters can justify $350 - $450 a day for plains game today when the US dollar is so strong makes me wonder also.

I'm leaving on my fourth trip to Africa next month and I'll be hunting plains game in South Africa. I was lucky enough to hunt Buffalo in Zimbabwe in 2011 but the way that the prices have escalated, I will probably never hunt dangerous game again.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
5k is a lot of money

Not for some folks.
(although it is for me)



The pendulum is swinging on African hunting. Just where it is in its arc is debatable.

I tend to feel much more comfortable around people who wouldn't through $50 (fifty) dollars around like it was given to them.

Those who think 5k isn't a lot of money should feel blessed....if they don't then I don't know what to say

Trust me when I say $5,000 IS A LOT to us. But, I don't set the price for having our Leopards end up on US soil. We spent a lot more than that $5,000 to hunt those Leopards and the Elephant that can't be imported from Zimbabwe.

Great adventures and experiences but there will likely be no more hunting in Africa for us.

I owe it to the Leopards to pay the $5,000 and finish the deal.

Of course that doesn't count taxidermy.

Cheers
Jim

Just a thought, but doesn't it seem like the prices in west Africa haven't changed all that much?

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
[

I owe it to the Leopards to pay the $5,000 and finish the deal.

Of course that doesn't count taxidermy.

Cheers
Jim

+1

And you appreciate taxidermy. I went thru a few hoops with a shipping agent who died, mis entered forms, remarkable efford by Arjun Reddy the booking agent to located the lion and get a new agent and get it to me, shipments to france back to burkina back to france and then NYC and then Houston to get my lion.

I have zero interest in having him in my home. BUt I felt the least I could was make sure he got mounted and I am not really into taxidermy. The lion will probably stay at my taxidermist studio.

Mike

This price inflation is primarily related to DG hunting. There are still some great deals in plains game.

I hunted Kanana with Jason Bridger in 2013 and my cost in nominal terms were same as 1993 and in real terms 1973. The game quality was excellent.

Also photo safaris in prime africa locations is expensive

https://www.costcotravel.com/S...STOFBOTSWANA20160107

YOu can hunt plains game in Botswana cheaper than going to the Delta.

Mike

I agree with the market thing
Commodities are down and so will be demand for hunts
Life is not fair and never will be, and nothing is written in stone unless it's your epitaph

the south african guys are private land private owners as such they can and do react to price resistance with efficient market velocity

RSA plains game has come down and is now down where it is accessible to the average guy with a good job in the us

the government regulators and tribal leaders in campfire will take 2- 5 years to adjust

and guys like Martin may be at risk to lose concessions if anyone is hungry or dumb enough to bid against him w the government

don't expect any relief from usfws any time soon with their self perception as all mighty gods of the wildlife world

good chance they will never come around right up to the last dead elephant and poisoned lion

and just to make a, will you hunt behind a fence, point --the high fence is not all that bad in this light

When I started hunting in South Africa in 1983 the situation was very different to now. I only hunted on farms with a low cattle fence around the property, the prices were very favorable. Now you won't find such farms anymore, there are only properties with a high fence around. Ok, if the property has a size of 20.000 hectares the situation is different but still, I know a lot of people who would never hunt South Africa because of the high fences. They also laugh about the antelopes in different colors. And they cry about the high prices. Personally I'm not very interested in hunting in South Africa anymore.

I have to add my .02. I have shopped hunts every year since 2001 and have gone on many. The fact is, except for plains game behind a fence, the prices have increased to the point that they are out of reach for a majority of the market consumers. I really do not understand how there is ever left over quota except for cancellations. No other market would allow product to remain in inventory without reducing prices. Lion quota? Show me one for 15k, or even 20k and I will buy it. At 50k, no chance. From what I have seen it's those setting the trophy fees, hardly ever the ph, that do not understand this concept. Is anyone suprised that an African government fails to understand the free market? It is sad because I think it is the beginning of the end and I can't do anything but watch.

This may be the fastest a thread has ever made 3 pages.

I guess it shows the frustration we have all experienced with the ever increasing prices.

Question - I see where Zim operators are now charging a $100 per day fee for a gov't. game scout on dangerous game hunts. I've read that this came about due to the "Cecil" debacle and is required by the gov't. However, I highly doubt the game scout is being paid $100 per day. Are the Zim parks people pocketing the difference or are the operators marking up this fee?

I've done a few hunts in Zim for Buff and Ele and we always had a game scout with us but there was never an extra charge in the past. Seems to be just another example of the Zim gov't. fleecing the foreigh hunter?

Funny, guides in US for most part don't make $100 a day and I'm pretty sure those gov scouts expect tips as well...

quote:

Originally posted by Labman:
I guess it shows the frustration we have all experienced with the ever increasing prices.

Question - I see where Zim operators are now charging a $100 per day fee for a gov't. game scout on dangerous game hunts. I've read that this came about due to the "Cecil" debacle and is required by the gov't. However, I highly doubt the game scout is being paid $100 per day. Are the Zim parks people pocketing the difference or are the operators marking up this fee?

I've done a few hunts in Zim for Buff and Ele and we always had a game scout with us but there was never an extra charge in the past. Seems to be just another example of the Zim gov't. fleecing the foreigh hunter?

In 2010 at the end of my 10 day buff hunt in Makuti, I was told to pay the game scout 800 dollars.I had to give the money to him myself just before we dropped him off.The guy did not look that thankful when I handed him the money.We had a look as if I did something wrong to him.

Group hunts or sharing a hunt with a buddy is another cost saving option?

Paying a Government scout $800 is simply ridiculous.

quote:

Originally posted by Labman:
I guess it shows the frustration we have all experienced with the ever increasing prices.

Question - I see where Zim operators are now charging a $100 per day fee for a gov't. game scout on dangerous game hunts. I've read that this came about due to the "Cecil" debacle and is required by the gov't. However, I highly doubt the game scout is being paid $100 per day. Are the Zim parks people pocketing the difference or are the operators marking up this fee?

I've done a few hunts in Zim for Buff and Ele and we always had a game scout with us but there was never an extra charge in the past. Seems to be just another example of the Zim gov't. fleecing the foreigh hunter?

This is a fairly recent thing. I also believe that it is slightly more than $70 per day if I remember correctly. This came about as a result of the Cecil debacle.

As a practical matter, this does not impact many hunts as the Parks game Scouts were there before the Cecil debacle. For example, certain hunts in the Valley had these guys for years.

Some are great guys and extremely useful. Quite skilled. Willing to work. others are lazy useless people.

I do not believe an additional cost was added on my final bill in 2015 as it was already factored into the cost. And yes, I gladly tipped the guy. He was damn good.

Fair Game the point here is to---- no need to share the hunt

your concession owner, you, and your suppliers all need to reset your cost structure

period, point blank, end of story YOUR RENT IS TOO DAMN HIGH

up there where you are you may enjoy a cushion on demand for now

but i tell you it will not last forever, enjoy it best you can my man

Martin asks how low can Safari costs go?

I've been asking the same question regarding oil prices, especially since the price of oil is largely responsible for my ability to hunt Africa or enjoy a number of other extravagances. Of course, when oil is up, I do well but those outside the industry suffer. Now that oil is down, those inside the industry suffer and those outside enjoy low prices at the pump which translates into more discretionary money for them and their families, at least to some extent as here in the US, and especially Texas, the oil industry has VERY LONG coattails that eventually stretches into construction of new homes, new cars, banking, etc. I remember a prominent PH here making a comment about a year ago that oil prices don't affect the safari industry. My thought at the time was ... give it time and it will!!

It's all relative Martin. I doubt the outfitters and PHs can achieve much success with changing the government's view of milking the cash cow for all it's worth, but the truth is that they've taken prices to the upper limit and beyond for awhile now. The economic pendulum always swings back to correction given enough time. The best bet you guys have for maintaining profit margins at this point is to collectively get your governments to acknowledge the current economic realities and bring concession and trophy fees back in line with what the market is willing to support. Absent that, the outfitters, PHs, wildlife, wild lands, and ultimately the governments will face economic challenges over the long term.

quote:

Originally posted by stradling:
Fair Game the point here is to---- not need to share the hunt

your concession owner, you, and your suppliers all need to reset your cost structure

period, point blank, end of story YOUR RENT IS TOO DAMN HIGH

up there where you are you may enjoy a cushion on demand for now

but i tell you it will not last forever, enjoy it best you can my man

I assure you that my prices are reasonable and I am open to negotiation.

Thing is with Zambia we have a wide variety of PG to go with our safaris and other attractive incentives.

Some Buff hunts here are going at $11,500 including trophy fee in desirable areas which I think is very reasonable for a free range hunt in deep Africa.

Agreed Andrew-everything in the c.12k price range is an adequate buffalo hunt pricing.And that why it was the pricing for quite a number of years in various countries.

That is very reasonable Andrew.

Here is another issue for Zim. As I understand it, the quota has to be paid for even if the animals are not shot. We know the ministers need to get their money somehow.

This situation led to taking way too many buff in SOME areas. This is not good for the long term. Surely any reasonable person can see that.

On the other hand, in some areas, the quotas have been cut drastically I know of one that went from 10 buffalo down to 4 buffalo. Having hunted there multiple times, I do not think that 10 were too many.

Regardless of what I think, this outfitter is now allowed to sell only 4 buff. At the same time, many of his costs have not dropped at all. How are they supposed to survive with a 60% revenue cut?

It all comes back to the f'in idiot jack asses running these countries. Face it, they have wrecked pretty much every segment of the economy. Why should hunting be different?

Has anyone ever thought that this entire situation might be planned? Think about it. If the outfitters are gone, the Chinese can run wild.

As good a time as any to make my debut on the forum- hi everyone!

This thread is crucial because it touches on so many key points:

- diminishing supply of wildlife and wild areas
- increasing costs of protecting and managing what's left
- blind assumptions about the clientele (ask any game scout here and he'll tell you Americans come to Africa to hunt because they must have killed all their native game)- this thinking goes to the top.
- Gov'ts who apply the same philosophy to wildlife fees as they would to mineral royalties... there is very little management of RENEWABLE natural resources on this continent
- What is essentially a luxury recreation holiday is difficult to defend politically against the survival needs of the growing human populations in Africa
- In essence the era of the open wilderness hunting ground is over; there is nowhere that games survives without explicit protection of sorts. Large expansive areas are becoming rarer, and real wild big game hunts will become accessible to only a select few.

So where does that leave us, especially those of us who are young? Are we to settle for a lifetime of reading about buffalo hunts in a library of Africana, wishing we'd been born in another era?

I see plenty of habitat still out there. Perhaps it's time to let go of some of the romance and start investing in managed and protected herds. Private management does not necessarily need a private land-ownership model like in SA and Namibia. But it does need fresh approaches and thinking to get the best out of community and tribal land, of which there is still plenty in countries north of the Zambezi. Game produce offspring; so surely if someone designs a clever model, you can invest $ 20 000 today and have a lifetime of good hunting out of it, rather than paying once-off for a chance to shoot something in an area where circumstances dictate an exploitative rather than sustainable approach?

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Labman:
I guess it shows the frustration we have all experienced with the ever increasing prices.

Question - I see where Zim operators are now charging a $100 per day fee for a gov't. game scout on dangerous game hunts. I've read that this came about due to the "Cecil" debacle and is required by the gov't. However, I highly doubt the game scout is being paid $100 per day. Are the Zim parks people pocketing the difference or are the operators marking up this fee?

I've done a few hunts in Zim for Buff and Ele and we always had a game scout with us but there was never an extra charge in the past. Seems to be just another example of the Zim gov't. fleecing the foreigh hunter?

This is a fairly recent thing. I also believe that it is slightly more than $70 per day if I remember correctly. This came about as a result of the Cecil debacle.

As a practical matter, this does not impact many hunts as the Parks game Scouts were there before the Cecil debacle. For example, certain hunts in the Valley had these guys for years.

Some are great guys and extremely useful. Quite skilled. Willing to work. others are lazy useless people.

I do not believe an additional cost was added on my final bill in 2015 as it was already factored into the cost. And yes, I gladly tipped the guy. He was damn good.

The parks scouts were never required on campfire land or private land. It's come about after the Cecil issue. If we had a strong hunting association, they could have fought the parks authority on the issue of making it mandatory to have a parks scout present on all hunts. Let a scout accompany the hunts.... At their own cost... But it was another "cash generating opportunity".Rangers earn in the region of $285-350 a month. This ruling was forced on operators, yet parks say the fee is for the "hire of labour"

If all operators had of stuck together, and dug their heels in, this could have been challenged . At the meeting in August last year at parks head office,after the media storm over "Cecil", a very well respected ex parks ecologist,now a wildlife consultant stressed to the parks director that it shouldn't make unnecessary new laws, but to rather police the existing laws that are in place more effectively, clearly they didn't listen. If our industry as a whole came together, and stuck together, we could have fought this, as with certain trophy fee increases that the parks dept brought in, for example buffalo went from us$1200 to us$3500 over night. Why, there were lots of buffalo on most government concession quota's.. An easy way to increase revenue for the parks coffers. There was no consultation with industry players at all, and no real challenge from operators. If one operator refused to pay the increase, it wouldn't have had much impact, however if EVERY OPERATOR stood together and said, we are not accepting this outrageous increase, and we are not going to accept the increase, they could have negotiated a more realistic trophy fee increase.

Let's face it guys, some well known operators who had politically connected partners, are to blame for the demise of some of our once prestigious safari areas. If you have the quality, clients certainly are happy to pay for these hunts. However greed got the better of them, and now it's very interesting to now see the industry players trying to deal with the downturn in business, and the price wars raging as a result.

Some will weather the storm, some may not. interesting times ahead, Certainly a good time to consolidate and regroup, and revamp our industry to its former glory.

In 2010 at the end of my 10 day buff hunt in Makuti, I was told to pay the game scout 800 dollars.I had to give the money to him myself just before we dropped him off.The guy did not look that thankful when I handed him the money.We had a look as if I did something wrong to him.



Holy shit ! That makes the Tanz game scouts look like saints.

I would really like to know from the Zim operators if that is common ? Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by doubleboy:
In 2010 at the end of my 10 day buff hunt in Makuti, I was told to pay the game scout 800 dollars.I had to give the money to him myself just before we dropped him off.The guy did not look that thankful when I handed him the money.We had a look as if I did something wrong to him.


Holy shit ! That makes the Tanz game scouts look like saints.

I would really like to know from the Zim operators if that is common ? Thanks.

What was the payment for??
Who was your safari operator?
Scouts do not get "paid" on a hunt.. Makuti is a government concession, and scouts accompany all hunts to verify animals that are killed or wounded and lost etc

doubleboy,

That is ridiculous. No safari operator should be telling you how much to give the game scout or anyone else for that matter unless you solicit his council on tipping. If the scout did a good job and was an asset to the hunt I would definitely give him a tip but not $800. on a 10 day buff I wouldn't give the whole crew minus the PH much more than that. Nothing like that has happened to me or any of my clients that I know of. This not common at all anywhere and you got hosed. Sorry!

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Black Lechwe:
As good a time as any to make my debut on the forum- hi everyone!

This thread is crucial because it touches on so many key points:

- diminishing supply of wildlife and wild areas
- increasing costs of protecting and managing what's left
- blind assumptions about the clientele (ask any game scout here and he'll tell you Americans come to Africa to hunt because they must have killed all their native game)- this thinking goes to the top.
- Gov'ts who apply the same philosophy to wildlife fees as they would to mineral royalties... there is very little management of RENEWABLE natural resources on this continent
- What is essentially a luxury recreation holiday is difficult to defend politically against the survival needs of the growing human populations in Africa
- In essence the era of the open wilderness hunting ground is over; there is nowhere that games survives without explicit protection of sorts. Large expansive areas are becoming rarer, and real wild big game hunts will become accessible to only a select few.

So where does that leave us, especially those of us who are young? Are we to settle for a lifetime of reading about buffalo hunts in a library of Africana, wishing we'd been born in another era?

I see plenty of habitat still out there. Perhaps it's time to let go of some of the romance and start investing in managed and protected herds. Private management does not necessarily need a private land-ownership model like in SA and Namibia. But it does need fresh approaches and thinking to get the best out of community and tribal land, of which there is still plenty in countries north of the Zambezi. Game produce offspring; so surely if someone designs a clever model, you can invest $ 20 000 today and have a lifetime of good hunting out of it, rather than paying once-off for a chance to shoot something in an area where circumstances dictate an exploitative rather than sustainable approach?

The hammer is about to fall on mineral in africa. We are entering a long cycle for commodities to struggle (leave oil and gas out). No one needs to go to marginal projects in a africa when you have Australia, US, Canada and South America struggling.

Hunting will start to matter - it really has not for zim - anyone think that zanu-pf is built on hunting is dreaming. Hunting just has been a means for small scale corruption.

African wildlife can come back fast - 20 years if there is property rights. Everything but elephants. Africa is not a barren landscape like Australia

But reality matters - you cannot raise african hunting prices at 10-15 percent a year in a deflationary world. Especially as quality goes down.

Take a look at macau casinos - when the bottom falls out of discretionary activity it is ugly.

The african hunting industry needs to and in time will understand it's hunting client base is priced out on a relative basis as prices escalate. There are just better uses of money - I will bet if you go to dsc and separate the africa hunting dollars from the rest of the dollars (everything from north America hunting to fancy 4X4s to fancy furniture). Rest of spending held in much better cause it did not go up 50-75 percent in last 5 years. I bet we will get much more sticky prices and unsold hunts.

The bigger risk is in next few years dg hunting in its largest market becomes a buff hunt. Why I have been saying guys like larry shores and Saeed who hunted a fair bit in 1990-2015 will be living legends. I just don't see US guys spending big dollars if trophy imports are not allowed. There may be few exception but african hunting booths at dsc and sci are going to get boring.

Long term i think usfw will do more damage than prices. Prices in time adjust as hunts are not sold.

Mike

Q. How low can prices go?

A. Much much lower.


Long term trends tend to have steaper and more drastic corrections.



Have we been on a long term increase in hunting costs?

Is demand decreasing? (Is the next generation hunting as much as us? Will they fill our shoes?)

Is there an abundance of supply?


This may be a very difficult and bloody industry shakeout. Will it take two years? Five?

The good news is that when the correction is over, business should be very good to the outfitters that survive.

Opportunities should abound for the African hunter in the next couple of years.


It will be interesting to see what quota cleanup hunts will look like later this year.

All the best to those of you affected by the changing market.

Gentleman,

My post regarding the $800 tip to the Zim game scout was lifted off of Shootaway's earlier post in the same thread.

My attempt to quote/reply didn't work out so well....
Never the less, good to see its an isolated incident.

The problem is the mentality of the African authorities . They may well see fewer dollars coming in and decide that the answer is to increase prices to make up for the loss of revenue.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
The dip pack and ship is an even bigger wallet gouged

I wouldn't mind seeing it start a downward pricing trend as it is ridiculous

I just wired $4,203.89 to Mozambique for both Joyce and my trophies. We will also have an estimated $760 cost for them to leave RSA after transfer.

The more I think about this, the more annoyed I get. Think about it for a minute. I can fly 2 people to Johannesburg and back for less than this. People require among other things:

Food
Drinks
Flight attendants
Restrooms
And a variety of other things

A box requires none of these things which cost money. Why does it cost so much?

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
The problem is the mentality of the African authorities . They may well see fewer dollars coming in and decide that the answer is to increase prices to make up for the loss of revenue.

+1 regarding Tanzania.

You are probably correct regarding most of the "government owned wildlife" countries as well.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
The problem is the mentality of the African authorities . They may well see fewer dollars coming in and decide that the answer is to increase prices to make up for the loss of revenue.

Exactly what will happen outside of sa, Namibia and botswana. The african government answer to demand destruction is supply annihilation. End of day someone will pay a m premium to shoot the elephant in tz.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
The dip pack and ship is an even bigger wallet gouged

I wouldn't mind seeing it start a downward pricing trend as it is ridiculous

I just wired $4,203.89 to Mozambique for both Joyce and my trophies. We will also have an estimated $760 cost for them to leave RSA after transfer.

The more I think about this, the more annoyed I get. Think about it for a minute. I can fly 2 people to Johannesburg and back for less than this. People require among other things:

Food
Drinks
Flight attendants
Restrooms
And a variety of other things

A box requires none of these things which cost money. Why does it cost so much?

It has nothing to do with airfare. This is one of the two invoices. You can see it's fee after fee and the trophies will be driven from Moz to RSA then the estimate is an additional
$762 to ship to the US.

This is just Joyce's. Mine is almost the same amount.


QTY
DESCRIPTION
UNIT PRICE
TOTAL
Collection charges from Luwire Safaris - Lichinga to Chimoio
$ 202.06

Preparation of the following trophies for Export
1 Licht.Hartebeest skull&horns
$ 50.00

3 Johnston's Impala skull&horns
$ 120.00

1 Leopard skull/fullskin
$ 125.00

1 Application for CITES permit only(Leopard)
$ 330.00

Application for all required Export Docs & Permits
$ 350.00

Wrapping, Packing & Crating Charges
$ 50.00

Mozambique Customs Clearance Charges
$ 225.00

Road Freight Charges to RSA Bonded Warehouse
$ 100.00

Facilitation Charges
$ 150.00

Total excluding insurance
Total US $ 1 702.69

Optional Loss & Damage Protection Charge for trophies received at our facility: Cover from date of receipt of payment until date of delivery thereof to nominated destination

$ 384.99

Total including insurance
Total US $
$ 2 087.05

So based upon your original post, it cost $5,000 to get these things home. Probably more if you use a service to clear them.

I am sorry but that is just f'ing ridiculous. If i read this right, that is effectively $1,000 per animal.

Absolute insanity.

Jim, I understand your frustration. When I received the pending invoices for the trophies for my last two African hunts, I told them to just keep them....a bunch of money to get the stuff to RSA, a bunch of money there for doc and export prep, air freight charges, customs clearance and other fees here, freight to your taxidermist. I could just go on another hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
So based upon your original post, it cost $5,000 to get these things home. Probably more if you use a service to clear them.

I am sorry but that is just f'ing ridiculous. If i read this right, that is effectively $1,000 per animal.

Absolute insanity.

Look at it this way Larry, Frostbit's shipping charges on his Moz stuff is more than an entire trip to Brazil cost, Its 4750. That's obscene.

And to tipping game scouts. I was told to tip the Tanzanian scout the same as a tracker. (TOLD)

I think that continent has seen the last dollars from my pocket.

I am looking at other cost effective adventures. For instance, my son and a group of his friends just returned from a Guatemala sail fishing trip with Pacific Fins. The tally: 3 boats for 3 days boated 219 sails, good food, good accomodations, lots of fun, tour of town of Antigua, etc. $3,295 per man, 3 to a boat, plus airfare.

With the downturn in the oil industry and the much higher prices in Zim, this will be the first year of the last 8 that I am not going to Africa.

BTW, In 2010 I hunted Deka in Zim for 7 days with Cape Buffalo included for $7,500 all in plus tips.

I hope all my friends in Zim, Zam, Bots, etc survive but there is definitely going to be a "reseting".

Cheers