quote:

Originally posted by BuffHunter63:
The buff I killed in Zim in 2003 had a $2000.00 trophy fee. The buff I will be hunting in Zim this year has $5700.00 trophy fee. Hardly a discount.

I think, like most industries, outfitters charge competitive rates, and once they have sold as many safaris as they can at the going rate, they offer cheaper hunts in order to sell off whatever is left over. Most discount hunts I see advertised are the result of cancellations or during end-of-season.

At times, killing off a few buffalo, is actually doing a service to the landowner, if the carrying capacity of the area has been exceeded.

JMO

BH63

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
Since 2010 when I hunted my first buff in Zim prices have gone up close to 60-65 percent.

Trophy fees have doubled, daily rates have gone up 50 percent, dip and pack and other fees have all gone up 30-50 percent. Only thing that has not gone up is airfare.

A buff hunt is zim is simply not worth the money for me. The all in cost of a zim hunt in a top area approaches close to $30-$32 all in with basic taxidermy. Add another $5-$7k and I get a loaded f-150 instead.

It's a discretionary activity and we as American get no benefit of a strong dollar. Can't say the same about a non hunting vacation in South Africa.

Same time South African guys are and will be breeding buffalo - not the same hunt but there is always a trade off.

Better value is to go to Botswana and hunt eland for me.

Mike

Hi Mike,

Hope you're well. I completely agree with you here. Whether the prices have inflated due to the operators or the game departments, the prices have inflated to a point to where I just assume go do something else.

I have many passions in life pulling me and my discretionary "vacation" money in differing directions.

Personally, I have turned to South America and her endless fishing possibilities. I can do three, week long trips all in for the price of a single buffalo hunt in Zimbabwe. The adventure is the same, the pursuit is as exciting or perhaps even more.

No dipping and packing
No trophy shipping
No taxidermy
No jet lag
No silly gun permit issues

If sport hunting in Africa is to remain viable, the house, in total, must put itself in order.

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
As in every industry in good times the government and operators think of raising prices every year and assume these positive trends will continue forever.

African hunting is discretionary - no one needs to go hunt africa other than a discretionary choice to spend $25K. When times were booming in 2005-2007 I heard stories of outfitters reselling booked hunts higher and returning deposits in TZ and Botswana. What about sliding scale for elephant ivory when no government got paid for quota on a sliding scale?


This whole hunting as conservation is BS. End of day there is conservation cause a renewable resource has economic value. Also a vast majority of hunters want something more from their hunts than just the experience. Otherwise they would not be a taxidermy industry. Who pays for elephants on a sliding scale when there is no elephant ivory import allowed ? Who shoots a $120K lion for a picture ? No one says I am paying 120K to shoot a lion or $25 to shoot a buffalo in the Save or Bubye for conservation sake - the conservation is a secondary impact/benefit of resources having value.

The DG african hunting industry priced it core customer (US upper middle class hunter) out of the market. I have not seen any great price discounts but I know a lot of hunts have not been sold. In time supply and demand adjust and prices change and markets clear - that is nice text book economics but in reality a lot of pain is also felt. Ask anyone who owns US energy stocks.

Also the whole hunting social acceptance angle has changed - its not cool to say I went and killed a lion or elephant in Africa. However, it is cool to say I went on this crazy hard sheep hunt in Alaska. Show me a positive WSJ (or any media) story on African hunting like they did for Alaskan hunting?

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
As in every industry in good times the government and operators think of raising prices every year and assume these positive trends will continue forever.

African hunting is discretionary - no one needs to go hunt africa other than a discretionary choice to spend $25K. When times were booming in 2005-2007 I heard stories of outfitters reselling booked hunts higher and returning deposits in TZ and Botswana. What about sliding scale for elephant ivory when no government got paid for quota on a sliding scale?


This whole hunting as conservation is BS. End of day there is conservation cause a renewable resource has economic value. Also a vast majority of hunters want something more from their hunts than just the experience. Otherwise they would not be a taxidermy industry. Who pays for elephants on a sliding scale when there is no elephant ivory import allowed ? Who shoots a $120K lion for a picture ? No one says I am paying 120K to shoot a lion or $25 to shoot a buffalo in the Save or Bubye for conservation sake - the conservation is a secondary impact/benefit of resources having value.

The DG african hunting industry priced it core customer (US upper middle class hunter) out of the market. I have not seen any great price discounts but I know a lot of hunts have not been sold. In time supply and demand adjust and prices change and markets clear - that is nice text book economics but in reality a lot of pain is also felt. Ask anyone who owns US energy stocks.

Also the whole hunting social acceptance angle has changed - its not cool to say I went and killed a lion or elephant in Africa. However, it is cool to say I went on this crazy hard sheep hunt in Alaska. Show me a positive WSJ (or any media) story on African hunting like they did for Alaskan hunting?

Mike

Mike,
I tend to agree with you. I have inwardly questioned the idea of "hunting as conservation" as less than genuine. The aspect that the animals have to pay for their place is real. But, look at Namibia and South Africa - those prices have flattened considerably compared to the bigger and dangerous game. There is no shortage of animals in those areas and yes, I know they are on game ranches to a large extent. However, isn't Bubye a game ranch of sorts? Yet it is seriously expensive. Same in Cameroon, where I recently hunted.

There is a balance of "hunting is conservation" and "hunting is big business" as well. The anti-poaching is needed because of the enforcement structures in the various countries. Canada, most or Europe, US, Argentina, New Zealand and a few others have no "anti-poaching" patrols or costs. Basically, the difference is the cultures and governments.

I am all for Africa being the world's best hunting destination, but I am running out of money to do the hunts I want to do. I too am going fishing this year and plan to do more in the future. Cost is an issue.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
As in every industry in good times the government and operators think of raising prices every year and assume these positive trends will continue forever.

African hunting is discretionary - no one needs to go hunt africa other than a discretionary choice to spend $25K. When times were booming in 2005-2007 I heard stories of outfitters reselling booked hunts higher and returning deposits in TZ and Botswana. What about sliding scale for elephant ivory when no government got paid for quota on a sliding scale?


This whole hunting as conservation is BS. End of day there is conservation cause a renewable resource has economic value. Also a vast majority of hunters want something more from their hunts than just the experience. Otherwise they would not be a taxidermy industry. Who pays for elephants on a sliding scale when there is no elephant ivory import allowed ? Who shoots a $120K lion for a picture ? No one says I am paying 120K to shoot a lion or $25 to shoot a buffalo in the Save or Bubye for conservation sake - the conservation is a secondary impact/benefit of resources having value.

The DG african hunting industry priced it core customer (US upper middle class hunter) out of the market. I have not seen any great price discounts but I know a lot of hunts have not been sold. In time supply and demand adjust and prices change and markets clear - that is nice text book economics but in reality a lot of pain is also felt. Ask anyone who owns US energy stocks.

Also the whole hunting social acceptance angle has changed - its not cool to say I went and killed a lion or elephant in Africa. However, it is cool to say I went on this crazy hard sheep hunt in Alaska. Show me a positive WSJ (or any media) story on African hunting like they did for Alaskan hunting?

Mike

Mike,
I tend to agree with you. I have inwardly questioned the idea of "hunting as conservation" as less than genuine. The aspect that the animals have to pay for their place is real. But, look at Namibia and South Africa - those prices have flattened considerably compared to the bigger and dangerous game. There is no shortage of animals in those areas and yes, I know they are on game ranches to a large extent. However, isn't Bubye a game ranch of sorts? Yet it is seriously expensive. Same in Cameroon, where I recently hunted.

There is a balance of "hunting is conservation" and "hunting is big business" as well. The anti-poaching is needed because of the enforcement structures in the various countries. Canada, most or Europe, US, Argentina, New Zealand and a few others have no "anti-poaching" patrols or costs. Basically, the difference is the cultures and governments.

I am all for Africa being the world's best hunting destination, but I am running out of money to do the hunts I want to do. I too am going fishing this year and plan to do more in the future. Cost is an issue.

I have to disagree with you all a bit. I shot 2 elephant bulls last year. Neither could be imported. One of my reasons was conservation. While I definitely enjoy elephants hunting, it occurred to me that if these bulls were not sold, a hell of a lot of anti-poaching was not going to get done. Plus the villagers would have less meat. I decided to carry on.

quote:

Originally posted by Safari2:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Beretta682E:
As in every industry in good times the government and operators think of raising prices every year and assume these positive trends will continue forever.

African hunting is discretionary - no one needs to go hunt africa other than a discretionary choice to spend $25K. When times were booming in 2005-2007 I heard stories of outfitters reselling booked hunts higher and returning deposits in TZ and Botswana. What about sliding scale for elephant ivory when no government got paid for quota on a sliding scale?


This whole hunting as conservation is BS. End of day there is conservation cause a renewable resource has economic value. Also a vast majority of hunters want something more from their hunts than just the experience. Otherwise they would not be a taxidermy industry. Who pays for elephants on a sliding scale when there is no elephant ivory import allowed ? Who shoots a $120K lion for a picture ? No one says I am paying 120K to shoot a lion or $25 to shoot a buffalo in the Save or Bubye for conservation sake - the conservation is a secondary impact/benefit of resources having value.

The DG african hunting industry priced it core customer (US upper middle class hunter) out of the market. I have not seen any great price discounts but I know a lot of hunts have not been sold. In time supply and demand adjust and prices change and markets clear - that is nice text book economics but in reality a lot of pain is also felt. Ask anyone who owns US energy stocks.

Also the whole hunting social acceptance angle has changed - its not cool to say I went and killed a lion or elephant in Africa. However, it is cool to say I went on this crazy hard sheep hunt in Alaska. Show me a positive WSJ (or any media) story on African hunting like they did for Alaskan hunting?

Mike

Mike,
I tend to agree with you. I have inwardly questioned the idea of "hunting as conservation" as less than genuine. The aspect that the animals have to pay for their place is real. But, look at Namibia and South Africa - those prices have flattened considerably compared to the bigger and dangerous game. There is no shortage of animals in those areas and yes, I know they are on game ranches to a large extent. However, isn't Bubye a game ranch of sorts? Yet it is seriously expensive. Same in Cameroon, where I recently hunted.

There is a balance of "hunting is conservation" and "hunting is big business" as well. The anti-poaching is needed because of the enforcement structures in the various countries. Canada, most or Europe, US, Argentina, New Zealand and a few others have no "anti-poaching" patrols or costs. Basically, the difference is the cultures and governments.

I am all for Africa being the world's best hunting destination, but I am running out of money to do the hunts I want to do. I too am going fishing this year and plan to do more in the future. Cost is an issue.

I have to disagree with you all a bit. I shot 2 elephant bulls last year. Neither could be imported. One of my reasons was conservation. While I definitely enjoy elephants hunting, it occurred to me that if these bulls were not sold, a hell of a lot of anti-poaching was not going to get done. Plus the villagers would have less meat. I decided to carry on.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I dearly love hunting in Zimbabwe. I have been there far more than any other country. I have many friends there. Having said that, I fear for the future of hunting in that country for a variety reasons including but not limited to the following:

1- The corruption in the government at the highest levels which directly affected hunting in terms of cost and quality.
2- Hunt prices have increased exponentially. Look at leopard & buffalo. In a fairly short period of time, these prices have shot through the roof. I looked at one buff hunt that was $28,000 for a single buff (including charters). $28,000!!! That is totally insane. I would have to check on this but I am willing to bet that these prices have at least doubled in the last 5 years, if not more.
3- All businesses have cycles and they go through tough times from time to time. Quit whining and work through it as best you can. Whining isn’t going to help. Trying to figure a way out will help. I have been there before. I get it.
4- I believe many outfitters are guilty of less the fair pricing. They wait for the big player to set their price then use that as a basis for their charges. How about basing prices off you own costs and not what, say, the BVC is charging.
5- No one has stood up to the government to say this is wrong and it will come back to haunt you. The government fees are far too high. Yes, there are some great buff areas in Zim. However there are many that are not. These less than ideal areas have government prices greater than TZ and can’t match the quality.
6- The industry has not stood up to the South Africans, some of which have hunted the country illegally. Most, if not all of these hunts are total disasters with the clients rarely getting their trophies. But, these hunts are cheap.
7- Quotas were simply too high in some areas. This forced the outfitter to take more animals than was sustainable in some cases.

Personally, I do not mind a premium price if the quality is there. The quality is there in some places in Zim but it most assuredly is not there in other places.

There are plenty of people wanting to go hunting but these prices have exceeded what people can pay and what others are willing to pay. I turned 60 a few months back. I am now unwilling to spend what I gladly spent 10 years ago.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
The dip pack and ship is an even bigger wallet gouged

I wouldn't mind seeing it start a downward pricing trend as it is ridiculous

quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:
Offhand, I can't think of any discretionary spending activity or product that has increased in cost in the last 10 years as much as an African hunting safari.

quote:

Originally posted by wrenchmaster:
Martin, so things are bad in the safari business; well cry me a river! Do your fellow outfitters think you are exempt from any consequences for your actions? Could you please explain how the loss of wildlife, less money for the native population, or all the other calamities you list are our problem? When the daily rates, trophy fees, and a whole list of other charges used to separate the client from their money keep going up, do you expect no change in the client's choices? Basically, I'm saying you, your fellow outfitters, and the African governments have wet your bed, so now you can sleep in it.

quote:

Originally posted by tim416:

quote:

Originally posted by wrenchmaster:
Martin, so things are bad in the safari business; well cry me a river! Do your fellow outfitters think you are exempt from any consequences for your actions? Could you please explain how the loss of wildlife, less money for the native population, or all the other calamities you list are our problem? When the daily rates, trophy fees, and a whole list of other charges used to separate the client from their money keep going up, do you expect no change in the client's choices? Basically, I'm saying you, your fellow outfitters, and the African governments have wet your bed, so now you can sleep in it.

Wrenchmaster, respectively they are your problem if you cannot afford the resulting increases in price. I have been working in Zimbabwe since 1996 and have a great deal of respect as well as concern for many of the outfitters and PH's in that country. Many of the implications I read here are that the PH's and outfitters are solely responsible for the increases in the cost of a safari.

How many of you recall when Zim Parks and Wildlife raised the cost of trophy fees on buff from an average of $2500 to $5000? This announcement by the Zim government was made in January, (with no warning) during the show season when outfitters were in the States selling hunts. For the most part, the hunts affected had been sold the previous year. Were the PH's and outfitters to eat this increase, or like any business anywhere else pass this cost along to the consumer? If I have to answer this for you please stop reading.

The cost of the government concessions, which are auctioned off every five years, increased proportionately as well. Land Cruisers, which have a limited life span and cost upwards of sixty thousand US have to be amortized and replaced during this time frame.
I could go on Ad nauseam.

I am not trying to justify the cost of a safari in Zimbabwe, I have seen it triple since my first of many trips starting in 1996.
My point is to simply aim the frustration to the proper source, the global economy in general and the increased costs imposed by the Zim government
that leaves an outfitter no choice but to pass along these costs to maintain their current profit margin, (which by the way is not great),
This is no less than any business person anywhere in the world would do.

If there is a Zim PH or outfitter that is making a higher profit by percentage today than in 1995 or 2005 please chime in and I will gladly beg forgiveness for my naivety.

quote:

Originally posted by tim416:

quote:

Originally posted by wrenchmaster:
Martin, so things are bad in the safari business; well cry me a river! Do your fellow outfitters think you are exempt from any consequences for your actions? Could you please explain how the loss of wildlife, less money for the native population, or all the other calamities you list are our problem? When the daily rates, trophy fees, and a whole list of other charges used to separate the client from their money keep going up, do you expect no change in the client's choices? Basically, I'm saying you, your fellow outfitters, and the African governments have wet your bed, so now you can sleep in it.

Wrenchmaster, respectively they are your problem if you cannot afford the resulting increases in price. I have been working in Zimbabwe since 1996 and have a great deal of respect as well as concern for many of the outfitters and PH's in that country. Many of the implications I read here are that the PH's and outfitters are solely responsible for the increases in the cost of a safari.

How many of you recall when Zim Parks and Wildlife raised the cost of trophy fees on buff from an average of $2500 to $5000? This announcement by the Zim government was made in January, (with no warning) during the show season when outfitters were in the States selling hunts. For the most part, the hunts affected had been sold the previous year. Were the PH's and outfitters to eat this increase, or like any business anywhere else pass this cost along to the consumer? If I have to answer this for you please stop reading.

The cost of the government concessions, which are auctioned off every five years, increased proportionately as well. Land Cruisers, which have a limited life span and cost upwards of sixty thousand US have to be amortized and replaced during this time frame.
I could go on Ad nauseam.

I am not trying to justify the cost of a safari in Zimbabwe, I have seen it triple since my first of many trips starting in 1996.
My point is to simply aim the frustration to the proper source, the global economy in general and the increased costs imposed by the Zim government
that leaves an outfitter no choice but to pass along these costs to maintain their current profit margin, (which by the way is not great),
This is no less than any business person anywhere in the world would do.

If there is a Zim PH or outfitter that is making a higher profit by percentage today than in 1995 or 2005 please chime in and I will gladly beg forgiveness for my naivety.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
5k is a lot of money

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by tim416:

quote:

Originally posted by wrenchmaster:
Martin, so things are bad in the safari business; well cry me a river! Do your fellow outfitters think you are exempt from any consequences for your actions? Could you please explain how the loss of wildlife, less money for the native population, or all the other calamities you list are our problem? When the daily rates, trophy fees, and a whole list of other charges used to separate the client from their money keep going up, do you expect no change in the client's choices? Basically, I'm saying you, your fellow outfitters, and the African governments have wet your bed, so now you can sleep in it.

Wrenchmaster, respectively they are your problem if you cannot afford the resulting increases in price. I have been working in Zimbabwe since 1996 and have a great deal of respect as well as concern for many of the outfitters and PH's in that country. Many of the implications I read here are that the PH's and outfitters are solely responsible for the increases in the cost of a safari.

How many of you recall when Zim Parks and Wildlife raised the cost of trophy fees on buff from an average of $2500 to $5000? This announcement by the Zim government was made in January, (with no warning) during the show season when outfitters were in the States selling hunts. For the most part, the hunts affected had been sold the previous year. Were the PH's and outfitters to eat this increase, or like any business anywhere else pass this cost along to the consumer? If I have to answer this for you please stop reading.

The cost of the government concessions, which are auctioned off every five years, increased proportionately as well. Land Cruisers, which have a limited life span and cost upwards of sixty thousand US have to be amortized and replaced during this time frame.
I could go on Ad nauseam.

I am not trying to justify the cost of a safari in Zimbabwe, I have seen it triple since my first of many trips starting in 1996.
My point is to simply aim the frustration to the proper source, the global economy in general and the increased costs imposed by the Zim government
that leaves an outfitter no choice but to pass along these costs to maintain their current profit margin, (which by the way is not great),
This is no less than any business person anywhere in the world would do.

If there is a Zim PH or outfitter that is making a higher profit by percentage today than in 1995 or 2005 please chime in and I will gladly beg forgiveness for my naivety.

Class warfare?

Not true, I can afford to go do these hunts we are referring to, I just choose not to anymore. I was just last week looking at a Stone Sheep/Goat/Mt Caribou hunt that was showcased here a couple years ago, I looked at the price, looked at the level of enjoyment and the enjoyment of having the trophies and decided it just isn't worth it. I think we as sport hunters get caught up in all this and don't really realize what we're doing spending 40-50 or even 100K on a hunting trip.

quote:

Originally posted by tim416:


Wrenchmaster, respectively they are your problem if you cannot afford the resulting increases in price. I have been working in Zimbabwe since 1996 and have a great deal of respect as well as concern for many of the outfitters and PH's in that country. Many of the implications I read here are that the PH's and outfitters are solely responsible for the increases in the cost of a safari.

How many of you recall when Zim Parks and Wildlife raised the cost of trophy fees on buff from an average of $2500 to $5000? This announcement by the Zim government was made in January, (with no warning) during the show season when outfitters were in the States selling hunts. For the most part, the hunts affected had been sold the previous year. Were the PH's and outfitters to eat this increase, or like any business anywhere else pass this cost along to the consumer? If I have to answer this for you please stop reading.

The cost of the government concessions, which are auctioned off every five years, increased proportionately as well. Land Cruisers, which have a limited life span and cost upwards of sixty thousand US have to be amortized and replaced during this time frame.
I could go on Ad nauseam.

I am not trying to justify the cost of a safari in Zimbabwe, I have seen it triple since my first of many trips starting in 1996.
My point is to simply aim the frustration to the proper source, the global economy in general and the increased costs imposed by the Zim government
that leaves an outfitter no choice but to pass along these costs to maintain their current profit margin, (which by the way is not great),
This is no less than any business person anywhere in the world would do.

If there is a Zim PH or outfitter that is making a higher profit by percentage today than in 1995 or 2005 please chime in and I will gladly beg forgiveness for my naivety.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by tim416:

quote:

Originally posted by wrenchmaster:
Martin, so things are bad in the safari business; well cry me a river! Do your fellow outfitters think you are exempt from any consequences for your actions? Could you please explain how the loss of wildlife, less money for the native population, or all the other calamities you list are our problem? When the daily rates, trophy fees, and a whole list of other charges used to separate the client from their money keep going up, do you expect no change in the client's choices? Basically, I'm saying you, your fellow outfitters, and the African governments have wet your bed, so now you can sleep in it.

Wrenchmaster, respectively they are your problem if you cannot afford the resulting increases in price. I have been working in Zimbabwe since 1996 and have a great deal of respect as well as concern for many of the outfitters and PH's in that country. Many of the implications I read here are that the PH's and outfitters are solely responsible for the increases in the cost of a safari.

How many of you recall when Zim Parks and Wildlife raised the cost of trophy fees on buff from an average of $2500 to $5000? This announcement by the Zim government was made in January, (with no warning) during the show season when outfitters were in the States selling hunts. For the most part, the hunts affected had been sold the previous year. Were the PH's and outfitters to eat this increase, or like any business anywhere else pass this cost along to the consumer? If I have to answer this for you please stop reading.

The cost of the government concessions, which are auctioned off every five years, increased proportionately as well. Land Cruisers, which have a limited life span and cost upwards of sixty thousand US have to be amortized and replaced during this time frame.
I could go on Ad nauseam.

I am not trying to justify the cost of a safari in Zimbabwe, I have seen it triple since my first of many trips starting in 1996.
My point is to simply aim the frustration to the proper source, the global economy in general and the increased costs imposed by the Zim government
that leaves an outfitter no choice but to pass along these costs to maintain their current profit margin, (which by the way is not great),
This is no less than any business person anywhere in the world would do.

If there is a Zim PH or outfitter that is making a higher profit by percentage today than in 1995 or 2005 please chime in and I will gladly beg forgiveness for my naivety.

Class warfare?

Not true, I can afford to go do these hunts we are referring to, I just choose not to anymore. I was just last week looking at a Stone Sheep/Goat/Mt Caribou hunt that was showcased here a couple years ago, I looked at the price, looked at the level of enjoyment and the enjoyment of having the trophies and decided it just isn't worth it. I think we as sport hunters get caught up in all this and don't really realize what we're doing spending 40-50 or even 100K on a hunting trip.

quote:

Originally posted by tim416:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by tim416:

quote:

Originally posted by wrenchmaster:
Martin, so things are bad in the safari business; well cry me a river! Do your fellow outfitters think you are exempt from any consequences for your actions? Could you please explain how the loss of wildlife, less money for the native population, or all the other calamities you list are our problem? When the daily rates, trophy fees, and a whole list of other charges used to separate the client from their money keep going up, do you expect no change in the client's choices? Basically, I'm saying you, your fellow outfitters, and the African governments have wet your bed, so now you can sleep in it.

Wrenchmaster, respectively they are your problem if you cannot afford the resulting increases in price. I have been working in Zimbabwe since 1996 and have a great deal of respect as well as concern for many of the outfitters and PH's in that country. Many of the implications I read here are that the PH's and outfitters are solely responsible for the increases in the cost of a safari.

How many of you recall when Zim Parks and Wildlife raised the cost of trophy fees on buff from an average of $2500 to $5000? This announcement by the Zim government was made in January, (with no warning) during the show season when outfitters were in the States selling hunts. For the most part, the hunts affected had been sold the previous year. Were the PH's and outfitters to eat this increase, or like any business anywhere else pass this cost along to the consumer? If I have to answer this for you please stop reading.

The cost of the government concessions, which are auctioned off every five years, increased proportionately as well. Land Cruisers, which have a limited life span and cost upwards of sixty thousand US have to be amortized and replaced during this time frame.
I could go on Ad nauseam.

I am not trying to justify the cost of a safari in Zimbabwe, I have seen it triple since my first of many trips starting in 1996.
My point is to simply aim the frustration to the proper source, the global economy in general and the increased costs imposed by the Zim government
that leaves an outfitter no choice but to pass along these costs to maintain their current profit margin, (which by the way is not great),
This is no less than any business person anywhere in the world would do.

If there is a Zim PH or outfitter that is making a higher profit by percentage today than in 1995 or 2005 please chime in and I will gladly beg forgiveness for my naivety.

Class warfare?

Not true, I can afford to go do these hunts we are referring to, I just choose not to anymore. I was just last week looking at a Stone Sheep/Goat/Mt Caribou hunt that was showcased here a couple years ago, I looked at the price, looked at the level of enjoyment and the enjoyment of having the trophies and decided it just isn't worth it. I think we as sport hunters get caught up in all this and don't really realize what we're doing spending 40-50 or even 100K on a hunting trip.

Not at all did I mean to indicate "class warfare". Most of these hunts I speak of are out of my price range. Simply meant that as these prices have escalated over time it has eliminated a great deal of the hunting population. This becomes problematic as the outfitters are now competing for a smaller percentage of the hunting community who can afford them, or choose to pay the asking price. And yes the consumer votes with their wallet by not buying but if the price cannot be controlled by the producer,(outfitter) it will change nothing.

And yes Baretta, no one is guaranteed a fixed profit margin, but every business in existence has a operating margin that must justify the owners level of liability, financial and otherwise.

As I stated before, I am in no way trying to justify the cost of a safari today, nor insinuate that if you cannot afford it "to bad". I simply am trying to relay that the fault does not lay solely or even in a small majority of the outfitters control.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:


These stupid F@#ks running these countries need to wake the hell up. They are perilously close to killing the goose that laid the golden egg.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by tim416:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by tim416:

quote:

Originally posted by wrenchmaster:
Martin, so things are bad in the safari business; well cry me a river! Do your fellow outfitters think you are exempt from any consequences for your actions? Could you please explain how the loss of wildlife, less money for the native population, or all the other calamities you list are our problem? When the daily rates, trophy fees, and a whole list of other charges used to separate the client from their money keep going up, do you expect no change in the client's choices? Basically, I'm saying you, your fellow outfitters, and the African governments have wet your bed, so now you can sleep in it.

Wrenchmaster, respectively they are your problem if you cannot afford the resulting increases in price. I have been working in Zimbabwe since 1996 and have a great deal of respect as well as concern for many of the outfitters and PH's in that country. Many of the implications I read here are that the PH's and outfitters are solely responsible for the increases in the cost of a safari.

How many of you recall when Zim Parks and Wildlife raised the cost of trophy fees on buff from an average of $2500 to $5000? This announcement by the Zim government was made in January, (with no warning) during the show season when outfitters were in the States selling hunts. For the most part, the hunts affected had been sold the previous year. Were the PH's and outfitters to eat this increase, or like any business anywhere else pass this cost along to the consumer? If I have to answer this for you please stop reading.

The cost of the government concessions, which are auctioned off every five years, increased proportionately as well. Land Cruisers, which have a limited life span and cost upwards of sixty thousand US have to be amortized and replaced during this time frame.
I could go on Ad nauseam.

I am not trying to justify the cost of a safari in Zimbabwe, I have seen it triple since my first of many trips starting in 1996.
My point is to simply aim the frustration to the proper source, the global economy in general and the increased costs imposed by the Zim government
that leaves an outfitter no choice but to pass along these costs to maintain their current profit margin, (which by the way is not great),
This is no less than any business person anywhere in the world would do.

If there is a Zim PH or outfitter that is making a higher profit by percentage today than in 1995 or 2005 please chime in and I will gladly beg forgiveness for my naivety.

Class warfare?

Not true, I can afford to go do these hunts we are referring to, I just choose not to anymore. I was just last week looking at a Stone Sheep/Goat/Mt Caribou hunt that was showcased here a couple years ago, I looked at the price, looked at the level of enjoyment and the enjoyment of having the trophies and decided it just isn't worth it. I think we as sport hunters get caught up in all this and don't really realize what we're doing spending 40-50 or even 100K on a hunting trip.

Not at all did I mean to indicate "class warfare". Most of these hunts I speak of are out of my price range. Simply meant that as these prices have escalated over time it has eliminated a great deal of the hunting population. This becomes problematic as the outfitters are now competing for a smaller percentage of the hunting community who can afford them, or choose to pay the asking price. And yes the consumer votes with their wallet by not buying but if the price cannot be controlled by the producer,(outfitter) it will change nothing.

And yes Baretta, no one is guaranteed a fixed profit margin, but every business in existence has a operating margin that must justify the owners level of liability, financial and otherwise.

As I stated before, I am in no way trying to justify the cost of a safari today, nor insinuate that if you cannot afford it "to bad". I simply am trying to relay that the fault does not lay solely or even in a small majority of the outfitters control.

Got it. That still doesn't give the operators a pass. The impetus is on them to get their own game department in line, to get their own citizens under poaching control. These guys, too easily turn to their clients with hand extended and want to make it our responsibility.

Im done with this stuff, once the prices cycle back to reality, I'll re-engage. But until then, Brazil, Guyana, Suriname, Costa Rica

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I am in business. I would love to raise my rates. Unfortunately, I do not think that my clients would be willing to absorb the rate increases. I decided against increases.

I get that the outfitters have a lot of costs that they can't control. That is part of the problem. While I do not blame the outfitters for all of the problems, the facts are that some of us decided enough is enough.

In 2006 & 2007, I probably spent at least $250,000 in TZ. I got so pissed off over the price increases and the timing of the increases, I decided I wasn't going back and I haven't. Based upon the calls I am getting, I am not the only one.

These stupid F@#ks running these countries need to wake the hell up. They are perilously close to killing the goose that laid the golden egg.

I am booked for September of this year and July of next. That may be it for me for a while. I am tired of increased prices and decreased quality. 25 safaris in a life time is enough.