quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
i haven't asked how many clients spoke positively of Sullivan. i only asked the PH's opinion- and the last 6 said he was an embarrassment to the profession. your mileage may vary- just my experience. but bear in mind these were guys that stayed booked and had no reason to be jealous.

Jerry, I think you missed my point. The point is that several of the PH's I've spoken to, believe that Sullivan's videos are to a large extent, responsible for getting some of their clients interested in Hunting DG. Partly because of that, they too, are 100% booked. In very much the same way Capstick or Ruark got people interested in African Safari. Now certainly, Capstick's character has been called into question, and even Ruark with his evidently excessive drinking, but there is no doubt that these men were the impetus that brought hunters to Africa. Like it or not, most who hunt Africa today know Sullivan's name. Most PHs do as well. Because of this, several of the PHs I've spoken to say they own him a bit of gratitude, in contrast to your statement that he embarrasses the profession and NONE have anything positive to say of the man.

Now certainly, a large percentage do believe he is an embarrassment as you stated, but all I'm doing is countering your statement that you've NEVER met a PH who has positive things to say of Mark. Personally, I've hunted with 14 PHs to date. I'd say it's just about an even split among those that have positive things to say of the man. For instance, I'll say that they all have some reservations on how he gets buffalo to charge him, not so much hippo as they never appear to be wounded first, but besides that, that Mark is an absolute master with the double rifle and how to employ it in a charge situation. Again, that statement stands separate from his technique of how he gets the buffalo to charge in the first place.

But even among some of the PH's I've spoken with who have a negative opinion of Sullivan, most will argue that he is one of the premiere Cat men in the business. Again, taking the cat episodes aside from the buff and hippo charges, and I've stated this previously, I've never seen anything even slightly unusual in his DVDs on the cat hunts. He does them exactly the same way I've seem them done in person by other PHs. On top of that, he's taken some real dandies. Even prior to the 6 year old lion law going into effect in TZ, stretching all the way back into the early 90's videos, he's always seemed to focus on very old, fully maned lions. I can't remember a "young" looking lion taken on any of his DVDs.

All this said, once again I'll say, I don't think a hunt with Mark would be my cup of tea. I don't care for how the clients are "spoken down to" on the films. And I do prefer to finish off a wounded buff at the first chance. I have no issues with how he hunts hippo or the cats. But I'm really indifferent on Sullivan, neither pro or con. But, these threads are always full of blatantly false statements and full of emotionally driven bullying. My real point and the reason I jumped in to the same old mud puddle is to counter and say that, yeah, I HAVE met some PHs with positive things to say about Mark Sullivan. And one more thing I have found concerning other PHs opinions of him, you'll often get a different answer on the guy, depending on how you present the question. Ask in a derogatory manner, and you'll likely get a "Yea, me too" answer. For instance, "Hey PH, what do you think about that embarrassment of a PH Sulliven", answer "You said it". Ask "Hey PH, doesn't Sullivan have some huge balls for standing a charge", answer "You said it"! Not always the case for sure, but surprisingly so. Remember, these guys are in the entertainment business to please their clients to a certain extent. Human nature!

Bye!

quote:

Originally posted by Milo Shanghai:
Determined to keep this marketing effort going, eh?

quote:

Originally posted by ExpressYourself:
Plains game video is easy to come by and we always seem to have an abundance of that type of hunting video. I have often thought if hunting charging hippo were so easy to do why is it that it seems as though Mark is the only guy on the planet that had produced such video with regularity. We certainly know that whenever any dangerous game charge or a close encounter is caught on tape of an elephant, buffalo, leopard, or lion it is produced or often made available for others to see. I can only assume the lack of charging hippo tape is not because it is so easy to do as some might suggest.

I am sure there have been people who may have unexpectedly been placed in a situation where they killed a charging or semi-charging hippo one day. Everything went right and they lived to tell the story. I'm fine with that. I do believe it is an entirely different story however when you pursue dangerous game willfully, inviting a beast to charge. To stop a charge accidentally is one thing. To walk up and intentionally engage dangerous game in a face to face up close charge is an altogether different matter.

I definitely agree hippo hunting as Mark does it is fun to watch but it is even more thrilling to experience in person. My experience around hippos that were hunted from small pools of water or dry ground at close range (not the longer distance that Russ previously mentioned) with the intention to be shot only when and if they charged has fortunately been much different for me than Russ experienced.

For me, it is definitely not an experience that I could ever describe as a letdown regardless of how many times it has occurred or will occur in the future. I guess we are all different and find things to be different once we experience them. As long as we are being honest and not being disingenuous then that is fine.

I don’t know how I missed that Russ had shot several (charging?) hippo with a .243 at 30 feet or less and has experienced that hippo drop if hit anywhere in the head. I must have read over that too fast previously. This runs counter to what I have seen.

Mark is a professional hunter that likes to get close...very close. As I have stated on AR previously, he hunts in this manner with or without a camera present. It is how he enjoys hunting dangerous game.

For those who disagree with this type of hunting some are able and content to simply say they disagree for whatever reason(s), or state that it is not their cup of tea and are able to do so without fanfare, swearing, or juvenile name calling. Then there are those who are unable to voice their opposition in a gentlemanly manner. So to combat Mark’s ability we then get to see Mark condemned by labeling him unethical, immoral, and all the other things that goes with it. I seem to have gotten a little off-track as this has been said by others better than I can articulate.

Thanks for sharing your experiences Russ.

Shawn

quote:

For example Paul Grobler who does not have a huge name in the industry has shot in excess of 8000 Elephant, and the list goes on and on.

quote:

Originally posted by Hunting the Box H:

quote:

For example Paul Grobler who does not have a huge name in the industry has shot in excess of 8000 Elephant, and the list goes on and on.

Russ, could you please put me in contact with Paul.
Thanks

I have no idea where Paul is I last saw him in mid 1990's in Marondera, but spent a lot of time with him.

Russ
Ian

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Never has so much been said about so little to so many by so few . . .

What a tragic waste of server space.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Too bad this hippo is not a prosecutor.

Then he could make his charge stick.

Impersonating a professional hunter.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
Interesting move by Mark Sullivan

Perhaps his critics would like to match his offer in some way?

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
Interesting move by Mark Sullivan

Perhaps his critics would like to match his offer in some way?

How do you know what his critics have done?

I know for a fact that several members of this forum have contributed large sums to Stu.

They did it, and still do it, for Stu.

They did not do it to gain publicity.

Other members of the professional hunting community needed help in the past.

Members of AR helped them in whatever means they could.

None of them bragged about it.

quote:

Paul was my PH when I hunted Rhodesia in 1972, and had killed something like 6,000 Elephant at the time

quote:

Originally posted by Bockhunter:

quote:

Paul was my PH when I hunted Rhodesia in 1972, and had killed something like 6,000 Elephant at the time

Then that is true -6.000 eles-, then he is the greatest elephant hunter -judged at the numbers-ever...

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
The ongoing debate on another thread about using a .375 versus a .416 for a buffalo/tuskless hunt reminded me of this thread. The two hippo charges featured on Mark's latest DVD, Death in Full-Charge, show the importance of (1) being able to shoot under pressure, and (2) using a rifle capable of getting the job done in an extreme situation . . . ah, not a .243. When hunting dangerous game sometimes using a caliber more than adequate is preferable to using something just adequate . . . particularly if you can shoot. Great footage by the way and the Blu-ray version is just exceptional if you have not seen it.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
The most important thing one can learn from a MS video is how NOT to do it.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
The ongoing debate on another thread about using a .375 versus a .416 for a buffalo/tuskless hunt reminded me of this thread. The two hippo charges featured on Mark's latest DVD, Death in Full-Charge, show the importance of (1) being able to shoot under pressure, and (2) using a rifle capable of getting the job done in an extreme situation . . . ah, not a .243. When hunting dangerous game sometimes using a caliber more than adequate is preferable to using something just adequate . . . particularly if you can shoot. Great footage by the way and the Blu-ray version is just exceptional if you have not seen it.

Mike,

Then most important thing one can learn from a MS video is how NOT to do it.

Following was own experience with hippos last year.

-------------------

The funny part is we are actually hunting right now.

And walking in the forest alongside the river, we come across hippos out of the water almost on a daily basis.

We have been as close as 7 yards to some. And on several occasions to about 10-15 yards.

We have never been charged, and at no time have we felt we are in any danger.

Yesterday we were walking along a river, and Roy got separated from us as we looked for tracks.

Roy was carrying a video camera, and came face to face with a hippo which was 12 yards from him.

He took a video of it, and both went separate ways.

Just goes to enforce what we have always known.

Charges don't occur except on extremely rare occasions.

Unless someone wants to play the hero.

In his own mind.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
The ongoing debate on another thread about using a .375 versus a .416 for a buffalo/tuskless hunt reminded me of this thread. The two hippo charges featured on Mark's latest DVD, Death in Full-Charge, show the importance of (1) being able to shoot under pressure, and (2) using a rifle capable of getting the job done in an extreme situation . . . ah, not a .243. When hunting dangerous game sometimes using a caliber more than adequate is preferable to using something just adequate . . . particularly if you can shoot. Great footage by the way and the Blu-ray version is just exceptional if you have not seen it.

Mike,

Then most important thing one can learn from a MS video is how NOT to do it.

Following was own experience with hippos last year.

-------------------

The funny part is we are actually hunting right now.

And walking in the forest alongside the river, we come across hippos out of the water almost on a daily basis.

We have been as close as 7 yards to some. And on several occasions to about 10-15 yards.

We have never been charged, and at no time have we felt we are in any danger.

Yesterday we were walking along a river, and Roy got separated from us as we looked for tracks.

Roy was carrying a video camera, and came face to face with a hippo which was 12 yards from him.

He took a video of it, and both went separate ways.

Just goes to enforce what we have always known.

Charges don't occur except on extremely rare occasions.

Unless someone wants to play the hero.

In his own mind.

Sounds exciting.

A story likely to inspire many a potential safari goer to finally book the hunt and flight across the big pond!

Reminds me a bit of the storyline on NatGeoWild a couple of years back where the fellow was trying to convince the audience that walking into the midst of lion prides was completely safe and that the lions have been given a false and unwarranted reputation for being killers and how they really won't kill and eat a human. Yep, that line of thinking works right up until the point at which it doesn't!

Damn, I thought hunting DG was exceptionally fun due to the potential for a little danger now and again. Saeed has just about convinced me there is nothing to DG at all. Maybe I'll start saving a ton of money by just shooting impala from now on. That or I could always just stay home.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
The ongoing debate on another thread about using a .375 versus a .416 for a buffalo/tuskless hunt reminded me of this thread. The two hippo charges featured on Mark's latest DVD, Death in Full-Charge, show the importance of (1) being able to shoot under pressure, and (2) using a rifle capable of getting the job done in an extreme situation . . . ah, not a .243. When hunting dangerous game sometimes using a caliber more than adequate is preferable to using something just adequate . . . particularly if you can shoot. Great footage by the way and the Blu-ray version is just exceptional if you have not seen it.

Mike,

Then most important thing one can learn from a MS video is how NOT to do it.

Following was own experience with hippos last year.

-------------------

The funny part is we are actually hunting right now.

And walking in the forest alongside the river, we come across hippos out of the water almost on a daily basis.

We have been as close as 7 yards to some. And on several occasions to about 10-15 yards.

We have never been charged, and at no time have we felt we are in any danger.

Yesterday we were walking along a river, and Roy got separated from us as we looked for tracks.

Roy was carrying a video camera, and came face to face with a hippo which was 12 yards from him.

He took a video of it, and both went separate ways.

Just goes to enforce what we have always known.

Charges don't occur except on extremely rare occasions.

Unless someone wants to play the hero.

In his own mind.

Sounds exciting.

A story likely to inspire many a potential safari goer to finally book the hunt and flight across the big pond!

Reminds me a bit of the storyline on NatGeoWild a couple of years back where the fellow was trying to convince the audience that walking into the midst of lion prides was completely safe and that the lions have been given a false and unwarranted reputation for being killers and how they really won't kill and eat a human. Yep, that line of thinking works right up until the point at which it doesn't!

Damn, I thought hunting DG was exceptionally fun due to the potential for a little danger now and again. Saeed has just about convinced me there is nothing to DG at all. Maybe I'll start saving a ton of money by just shooting impala from now on. That or I could always just stay home.

Todd,

Most hunters go to Africa to enjoy the whole safari experience.

Only few go there to come back and gloat about all the dangers they have faced - mostly in their dreams - to add some excitement to their lives

quote:

Originally posted by Hunting the Box H:
Regardless of what opinions may be voiced. There are a lot of people out there who choose to hunt with Mark in this manner.
With the amount of publicity out there they know exactly what they are buying and willingly part with top dollar safari prices for the experience.

To me that says that he must be doing something right.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
The ongoing debate on another thread about using a .375 versus a .416 for a buffalo/tuskless hunt reminded me of this thread. The two hippo charges featured on Mark's latest DVD, Death in Full-Charge, show the importance of (1) being able to shoot under pressure, and (2) using a rifle capable of getting the job done in an extreme situation . . . ah, not a .243. When hunting dangerous game sometimes using a caliber more than adequate is preferable to using something just adequate . . . particularly if you can shoot. Great footage by the way and the Blu-ray version is just exceptional if you have not seen it.

Mike,

Then most important thing one can learn from a MS video is how NOT to do it.

Following was own experience with hippos last year.

-------------------

The funny part is we are actually hunting right now.

And walking in the forest alongside the river, we come across hippos out of the water almost on a daily basis.

We have been as close as 7 yards to some. And on several occasions to about 10-15 yards.

We have never been charged, and at no time have we felt we are in any danger.

Yesterday we were walking along a river, and Roy got separated from us as we looked for tracks.

Roy was carrying a video camera, and came face to face with a hippo which was 12 yards from him.

He took a video of it, and both went separate ways.

Just goes to enforce what we have always known.

Charges don't occur except on extremely rare occasions.

Unless someone wants to play the hero.

In his own mind.

Sounds exciting.

A story likely to inspire many a potential safari goer to finally book the hunt and flight across the big pond!

Reminds me a bit of the storyline on NatGeoWild a couple of years back where the fellow was trying to convince the audience that walking into the midst of lion prides was completely safe and that the lions have been given a false and unwarranted reputation for being killers and how they really won't kill and eat a human. Yep, that line of thinking works right up until the point at which it doesn't!

Damn, I thought hunting DG was exceptionally fun due to the potential for a little danger now and again. Saeed has just about convinced me there is nothing to DG at all. Maybe I'll start saving a ton of money by just shooting impala from now on. That or I could always just stay home.

Todd,

Most hunters go to Africa to enjoy the whole safari experience.

Only few go there to come back and gloat about all the dangers they have faced - mostly in their dreams - to add some excitement to their lives

You mean like seeing a buffalo from the truck right outside of camp, getting out and just clobbering them! That kind of "whole safari experience"?

quote:

Originally posted by johnfox:

quote:

Originally posted by Hunting the Box H:
Regardless of what opinions may be voiced. There are a lot of people out there who choose to hunt with Mark in this manner.
With the amount of publicity out there they know exactly what they are buying and willingly part with top dollar safari prices for the experience.

To me that says that he must be doing something right.

Or....there's some really sad people who call themselves 'hunters' out there.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

. . . oh, and on the issue of tsetse flies versus mopane bees, we agree, I will take the tsetse flies any day over a hoard of mopane bees going in and out of your ears, the corners of your eyes, your nose . . .

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by johnfox:

quote:

Originally posted by Hunting the Box H:
Regardless of what opinions may be voiced. There are a lot of people out there who choose to hunt with Mark in this manner.
With the amount of publicity out there they know exactly what they are buying and willingly part with top dollar safari prices for the experience.

To me that says that he must be doing something right.

Or....there's some really sad people who call themselves 'hunters' out there.

What exactly makes them not hunters?

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Bud Meadows:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

. . . oh, and on the issue of tsetse flies versus mopane bees, we agree, I will take the tsetse flies any day over a hoard of mopane bees going in and out of your ears, the corners of your eyes, your nose . . .

Mike: Regarding mopane bees I have two words for you: "Cuban cigars". Like any bee they seem pacified by smoke.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Bud Meadows:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

. . . oh, and on the issue of tsetse flies versus mopane bees, we agree, I will take the tsetse flies any day over a hoard of mopane bees going in and out of your ears, the corners of your eyes, your nose . . .

Mike: Regarding mopane bees I have two words for you: "Cuban cigars". Like any bee they seem pacified by smoke.

That's a great point. Smoke does work. A burning elephant turd works well too.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
So what makes having close encounters with dangerous game something other than hunting? Seems to me that is the epitome of dangerous game hunting. Particularly compared to banging away at a buffalo, elephant, other from 100 yards. The point is not to come home with scary experiences to tell stories about, the point is to experience the thrill and excitement of hunting up close.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
i have to say i have never met a PH who thinks he is anything but a showman that embarrasses the profession- and these were all guys with thriving businesses and no shortage of clients.