i have to say i have never met a PH who thinks he is anything but a showman that embarrasses the profession- and these were all guys with thriving businesses and no shortage of clients.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
i have to say i have never met a PH who thinks he is anything but a showman that embarrasses the profession- and these were all guys with thriving businesses and no shortage of clients.

Sorry Jerrry but i have to disagree. I've met quite a few who hold a different opinion. Many have told me they belive his videos have been somewhat of the driving force that got several of their clients interested in African DG hunting. Ask this question of your next PH. What percentage of your clients bring up the subject of Mark Sullivan? How does that compare to, say the percentage who bring up the name Vincent? Dawson? Charlton? Etc.

That's what I thought!

WOW!! Page 4 already and full steam ahead! Yet STILL nothing new has been said!!

i haven't asked how many clients spoke positively of Sullivan. i only asked the PH's opinion- and the last 6 said he was an embarrassment to the profession. your mileage may vary- just my experience. but bear in mind these were guys that stayed booked and had no reason to be jealous.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
i have to say i have never met a PH who thinks he is anything but a showman that embarrasses the profession- and these were all guys with thriving businesses and no shortage of clients.

I've never met anyone who thinks you're nothing but a blowhard. (it works both ways Jerry)

Edited for civility...

I will name names here Alister Norton in Zambia, thinks Marks cat hunting videos should be watched by all "appies." In his assessment MS is one of if not the best cat man in all of Africa. Alister is no cat slouch either he's 100% percent on Lions and I believe 100% on Leopard minus one . (last time I spoke to him.)

Funny, EVERYONE whom has met, hunted or just interacted with Mark speak highly of him. The ONLY detractors have no data other than he wounds shit with a .22 to get them to charge.

quote:

allowing an animal to close to 10' before shooting just seems stupid

Have you tried it?

Nganga:
Just because you disagree with Jerry is no reason to dip so low as to start name calling.
It very much detracts from the discussion.
George

quote:

Originally posted by georgeld:
Nganga:
Just because you disagree with Jerry is no reason to dip so low as to start name calling.
It very much detracts from the discussion.
George

I agree with you, I am trying very hard to make a point with Jerry. Perhaps he doesn't like it much either. Maybe he will watch his word closer when administering a beating to others.

Jerry is an internet bully.

again, you are correct, I apologize for lowering the bar in this most professional thread.

Didn't Cal Pappas' analysis do anything? I've seen some questionable self defense kills by other well respected professional hunters. There has been some good logic, and some bad logic in this thread. The camera likely focuses on him because he's paying for the film. I assume many of his hunters might not want to be featured for various reasons (antis boycotting their business, etc.). It's all silly.

quote:

Originally posted by DCS Member:
Didn't Cal Pappas' analysis do anything? I've seen some questionable self defense kills by other well respected professional hunters. There has been some good logic, and some bad logic in this thread. The camera likely focuses on him because he's paying for the film. I assume many of his hunters might not want to be featured for various reasons (antis boycotting their business, etc.). It's all silly.

Ya' know...you're right. It is silly. I don't know why I do this on these MS threads. He's a big boy, certainly can defend himself if he chose to.

I guess Jerry is as entitled to his opinion as I am.

Sorry Jerry, carry on.

Steve

Threads like this leave us divided.

Personally I think ExpressYourself enjoys the attention as much as Mark does.

I very much doubt Mark reaps much business from AR and really what is this style of marketing all about?

Fairgame,

With all due respect please do not drag me into the arena with those who have posted their rants here. This thread started with a simple photograph of a friend who shares my same love of hunting up close. It progressed with positive comments about shooting hippo up close and even some regarding it looking exciting. It quickly was diverted and degenerated by some, who are all too familiar on AR, entering a thread in less than a gentlemanly fashion and quickly trying to derail it. Nobody has to agree with anything but some have taken that to a whole new level. Just my opinion.

Shawn,

You are advertising another silly video of Mark playing the GREAT BRAVE WHITE HUNTER.

Are you suggesting that those of us who have absolutely no respect for such idiotic behavior to keep quiet?

Shawn, your comments are impossibly naive.

You invite ridicule if you seek to blame third parties for the direction of this thread. Are you honestly suggesting that you did not know precisely how it would go?

Best wishes to you in any case,
Milo.

quote:

Originally posted by ExpressYourself:
Fairgame,

With all due respect please do not drag me into the arena with those who have posted their rants here. This thread started with a simple photograph of a friend who shares my same love of hunting up close. It progressed with positive comments about shooting hippo up close and even some regarding it looking exciting. It quickly was diverted and degenerated by some, who are all too familiar on AR, entering a thread in less than a gentlemanly fashion and quickly trying to derail it. Nobody has to agree with anything but some have taken that to a whole new level. Just my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Shawn,

You are advertising another silly video of Mark playing the GREAT BRAVE WHITE HUNTER.

Are you suggesting that those of us who have absolutely no respect for such idiotic behavior to keep quiet?

This is not part of a DVD. I welcome participation of opposing views in any conversation. What I am suggesting is resorting to name calling and other childish behavior to voice an opposing position or belief in a divergent hunting style is generally of little value.

On this thread regarding Mark, as in others, I have received numerous personal emails from AR members showing support for my sharing this hunting style and photos of trophies that were taken.

They are reluctant to post as they know their comments will be met with resistance which they personally do not wish to be drawn into.

I think this speaks volumes as to the real issue at hand.

Shawn

quote:

Originally posted by Milo Shanghai:
Shawn, your comments are impossibly naive.

You invite ridicule if you seek to blame third parties for the direction of this thread. Are you honestly suggesting that you did not know precisely how it would go?

Best wishes to you in any case,
Milo.

quote:

Originally posted by ExpressYourself:
Fairgame,

With all due respect please do not drag me into the arena with those who have posted their rants here. This thread started with a simple photograph of a friend who shares my same love of hunting up close. It progressed with positive comments about shooting hippo up close and even some regarding it looking exciting. It quickly was diverted and degenerated by some, who are all too familiar on AR, entering a thread in less than a gentlemanly fashion and quickly trying to derail it. Nobody has to agree with anything but some have taken that to a whole new level. Just my opinion.

Milo,

If by saying not knowing exactly how it would go you mean to expect that others might wish to comment in opposition of course that is expected. But that does not mean that many do not enjoy the topic and information. The thread does not have to become a place of negative feelings just because it is something that some do not enjoy.

Best always,
Shawn

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
i haven't asked how many clients spoke positively of Sullivan. i only asked the PH's opinion- and the last 6 said he was an embarrassment to the profession. your mileage may vary- just my experience. but bear in mind these were guys that stayed booked and had no reason to be jealous.

Jerry, I think you missed my point. The point is that several of the PH's I've spoken to, believe that Sullivan's videos are to a large extent, responsible for getting some of their clients interested in Hunting DG. Partly because of that, they too, are 100% booked. In very much the same way Capstick or Ruark got people interested in African Safari. Now certainly, Capstick's character has been called into question, and even Ruark with his evidently excessive drinking, but there is no doubt that these men were the impetus that brought hunters to Africa. Like it or not, most who hunt Africa today know Sullivan's name. Most PHs do as well. Because of this, several of the PHs I've spoken to say they own him a bit of gratitude, in contrast to your statement that he embarrasses the profession and NONE have anything positive to say of the man.

Now certainly, a large percentage do believe he is an embarrassment as you stated, but all I'm doing is countering your statement that you've NEVER met a PH who has positive things to say of Mark. Personally, I've hunted with 14 PHs to date. I'd say it's just about an even split among those that have positive things to say of the man. For instance, I'll say that they all have some reservations on how he gets buffalo to charge him, not so much hippo as they never appear to be wounded first, but besides that, that Mark is an absolute master with the double rifle and how to employ it in a charge situation. Again, that statement stands separate from his technique of how he gets the buffalo to charge in the first place.

But even among some of the PH's I've spoken with who have a negative opinion of Sullivan, most will argue that he is one of the premiere Cat men in the business. Again, taking the cat episodes aside from the buff and hippo charges, and I've stated this previously, I've never seen anything even slightly unusual in his DVDs on the cat hunts. He does them exactly the same way I've seem them done in person by other PHs. On top of that, he's taken some real dandies. Even prior to the 6 year old lion law going into effect in TZ, stretching all the way back into the early 90's videos, he's always seemed to focus on very old, fully maned lions. I can't remember a "young" looking lion taken on any of his DVDs.

All this said, once again I'll say, I don't think a hunt with Mark would be my cup of tea. I don't care for how the clients are "spoken down to" on the films. And I do prefer to finish off a wounded buff at the first chance. I have no issues with how he hunts hippo or the cats. But I'm really indifferent on Sullivan, neither pro or con. But, these threads are always full of blatantly false statements and full of emotionally driven bullying. My real point and the reason I jumped in to the same old mud puddle is to counter and say that, yeah, I HAVE met some PHs with positive things to say about Mark Sullivan. And one more thing I have found concerning other PHs opinions of him, you'll often get a different answer on the guy, depending on how you present the question. Ask in a derogatory manner, and you'll likely get a "Yea, me too" answer. For instance, "Hey PH, what do you think about that embarrassment of a PH Sulliven", answer "You said it". Ask "Hey PH, doesn't Sullivan have some huge balls for standing a charge", answer "You said it"! Not always the case for sure, but surprisingly so. Remember, these guys are in the entertainment business to please their clients to a certain extent. Human nature!

Bye!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Shawn,

You are advertising another silly video of Mark playing the GREAT BRAVE WHITE HUNTER.

Are you suggesting that those of us who have absolutely no respect for such idiotic behavior to keep quiet?

So Saeed, do you have a problem with a "silly" "WHITE" part? Sounds like penis envy to me. If he were sand brown or bronze, would he work for you?? He's the real deal. Perhaps we can arrange for the two of you to go toe to toe hunting. That would be very interesting. Your ego needs an adjustment.

quote:

Originally posted by DoubleDon:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Shawn,

You are advertising another silly video of Mark playing the GREAT BRAVE WHITE HUNTER.

Are you suggesting that those of us who have absolutely no respect for such idiotic behavior to keep quiet?

So Saeed, do you have a problem with a "silly" "WHITE" part? Sounds like penis envy to me. If he were sand brown or bronze, would he work for you?? He's the real deal. Perhaps we can arrange for the two of you to go toe to toe hunting. That would be very interesting. Your ego needs an adjustment.

Double Don

What on earth prompted you to bring race into this discussion?

"Great White Hunter" has been a stereotype and a cliche since Roosevelt was in Africa--Saeed used the term properly--MS is a caricature.

Get a life, a thicker skin, or sense---please


Saeed has done nothing to insult anyone so leave out the racial BS


Mark Sullivan stirs up enough shit with adding your racial BS.

Btw I am a eighth generation Southerner with ancestors who fought in the War of Northern Aggression.

I HATE racists, just like I cant stand rapists, morons, socialists and bureaucrats who cant find there own ass with both hands,a mirror and a bribe.

SSR

quote:

Originally posted by Hunting the Box H:

quote:

allowing an animal to close to 10' before shooting just seems stupid

Have you tried it?

yes. i killed an unwounded leopard on a full charge that fell at my feet after receiving a load at SSG while airborne. he broke through the dog pack and made a beeline for me though the Kalahari blackthorn. not an experience i wish to repeat.... my comments about the 6 previous PH's i hunted with disagreeing with his methods is just that. i didn't ask the first 6, so maybe it would be a 50:50 split. and i did not ask about their opinion of his skill with a DR, which is undoubtably superb. i am in complete agreement that anyone who wants to let DG close to 10' then shoot it should jump right in and go for it. i wish them a long and healthy life- but i wouldn't bet on it in the long term. Murphy and his Law are eternally optimistic...

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Threads like this leave us divided.

Personally I think ExpressYourself enjoys the attention as much as Mark does.

Never has so much been said about so little to so many by so few . . .

What a tragic waste of server space.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Never has so much been said about so little to so many by so few . . .

What a tragic waste of server space.

Well said! +1

quote:

Originally posted by DoubleDon:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Shawn,

You are advertising another silly video of Mark playing the GREAT BRAVE WHITE HUNTER.

Are you suggesting that those of us who have absolutely no respect for such idiotic behavior to keep quiet?

So Saeed, do you have a problem with a "silly" "WHITE" part? Sounds like penis envy to me. If he were sand brown or bronze, would he work for you?? He's the real deal. Perhaps we can arrange for the two of you to go toe to toe hunting. That would be very interesting. Your ego needs an adjustment.

DD,
Your ignorance as to the accepted meaning of "White Hunter" has led you down the wrong path. Not only have you insulted a good man you have made yourself look utterly ridiculous.

Way to go.

Milo.

When many of you came to Carolinasman's defense it was an honor to be among you.

When many of you post here it is an embarrassment to be among you.

I don't understand this.

Cal

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by Hunting the Box H:

quote:

allowing an animal to close to 10' before shooting just seems stupid

Have you tried it?

yes. i killed an unwounded leopard on a full charge that fell at my feet after receiving a load at SSG while airborne. he broke through the dog pack and made a beeline for me though the Kalahari blackthorn. not an experience i wish to repeat.... my comments about the 6 previous PH's i hunted with disagreeing with his methods is just that. i didn't ask the first 6, so maybe it would be a 50:50 split. and i did not ask about their opinion of his skill with a DR, which is undoubtably superb. i am in complete agreement that anyone who wants to let DG close to 10' then shoot it should jump right in and go for it. i wish them a long and healthy life- but i wouldn't bet on it in the long term. Murphy and his Law are eternally optimistic...

Now gentlemen there is an intelligent answer with no malice! Only an answer to a question!

................................................................ right on! Jdollar!

quote:

Originally posted by Sean Russell:

quote:

Originally posted by DoubleDon:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Shawn,

You are advertising another silly video of Mark playing the GREAT BRAVE WHITE HUNTER.

Are you suggesting that those of us who have absolutely no respect for such idiotic behavior to keep quiet?

So Saeed, do you have a problem with a "silly" "WHITE" part? Sounds like penis envy to me. If he were sand brown or bronze, would he work for you?? He's the real deal. Perhaps we can arrange for the two of you to go toe to toe hunting. That would be very interesting. Your ego needs an adjustment.

Double Don

What on earth prompted you to bring race into this discussion?

"Great White Hunter" has been a stereotype and a cliche since Roosevelt was in Africa--Saeed used the term properly--MS is a caricature.

Get a life, a thicker skin, or sense---please


Saeed has done nothing to insult anyone so leave out the racial BS


Mark Sullivan stirs up enough shit with adding your racial BS.

Btw I am a eighth generation Southerner with ancestors who fought in the War of Northern Aggression.

I HATE racists, just like I cant stand rapists, morons, socialists and bureaucrats who cant find there own ass with both hands,a mirror and a bribe.

SSR

You know that someone has lost the plot as soon as he brings the race card into it.

I don't care whoever does it, anyone who goes out of his way to instigate charges so he can play the brave hero, is an utter idiot.

He can be black, white, yellow, brown or any shade in between.

Mark Sullivan purposely instigates these charges.

It is that simple.

PHs with literally hundred of years between them hardly every get charged.

Him, on the other hand, seems to produce them at time a camera is ready to feed his ego.

Saeed:
Mark really does not have that many charges. Look to my report of last March. But for some reason that I can't fathom he generates so much anger. Think about it. Your AR is blazing with the mention of his name but folks don't utter nary a word about the antis who helped close Botswana or the poisoning of 90 elephant in Zim. It is so unbalanced.

I'd love to see you (and ISS, Mac, jdollar and others) put your energy towards the above two issues rather than against a fellow hunter. I mean, you've made countless posts (can you use a program to give an exact number--I'm curious, that's all) and they have done nothing except give Mark even more publicity.

Maybe if you'd give it a rest many of the mindless dolts here who follow and worship you will follow suit. There are better ways for posters here to use their time.

Cheers,
Cal

Cal,

There are those who will assert that M.S. could
not be more detrimental to lawful African hunting.

Interesting read!
I have much respect for all of the passion that is represented in these posts

Still planning my first trip to Africa

quote:

Originally posted by D R Hunter:
Cal,

There are those who will assert that M.S. could
not be more detrimental to lawful African hunting.

DR: I agree there are those... However we would ALL agree about the closings and poisonings. And, even if we disagree, why the strong hatred over one gent? Look at ISS's last post and his irrational anger. He is a hunter and a rifle man, yet not a word about far more serious issues that threaten what we do. We all know about Saeed's stand on the matter, but his countless posts have a jihadist fanatical attitude that never ends. It's not like Mark comes on here attacking folks. Why can't some just let it go? Let's put our efforts into a letter writing campaign to those in power in Botswana.
Cheers,
Cal

write letters to Ian Khama and get him to reopen hunting?? surely you are joking.....why not also write letters to Mugabe and get him to stop Zanu-PF officials to quit aiding and abetting poaching. i am sure both letter writing campaigns would accomplish the same thing- absolutely nothing.

jdollar:
My point was that there are more productive ways to write than endless tirades about a single hunter. They have done nothing. But the question remains unanswered--why don't the angry folks here express their anger toward the real danger such as closing of hunt areas and poisoning?
Regards,
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:

I'd love to see you (and ISS, Mac, jdollar and others) put your energy towards the above two issues rather than against a fellow hunter. I mean, you've made countless posts (can you use a program to give an exact number--I'm curious, that's all) and they have done nothing except give Mark even more publicity.

Maybe if you'd give it a rest many of the mindless dolts here who follow and worship you will follow suit. There are better ways for posters here to use their time.

Cheers,
Cal

0

Cal, I speak only for myself, but I have exactly THREE posts, quoted below, while you have more posts on just this one page than I do in the whole thread!

Mine with very short comments below in this thread of four full pages of crap and I don't have, nor do I want any MINDLESS DOLTS following me, nor any of the same telling me where my allegiance must lie!

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
"Rogue" my ass...

#1 BELOW

quote:

By MacD37
.............................................................

#2 BELOW

quote:

BY MacD37

There is an old adage that applies to Mark's very well written post, that I'm quite sure he believes every word of! It reads "Other people rarely see us as we see ourselves!"
That is true in spades with Mark in my opinion!

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by Hunting the Box H:
[QUOTE]allowing an animal to close to 10' before shooting just seems stupid

Have you tried it?

yes. i killed an unwounded leopard on a full charge that fell at my feet after receiving a load at SSG while airborne. he broke through the dog pack and made a beeline for me though the Kalahari blackthorn. not an experience i wish to repeat.... my comments about the 6 previous PH's i hunted with disagreeing with his methods is just that. i didn't ask the first 6, so maybe it would be a 50:50 split. and i did not ask about their opinion of his skill with a DR, which is undoubtably superb. i am in complete agreement that anyone who wants to let DG close to 10' then shoot it should jump right in and go for it. i wish them a long and healthy life- but i wouldn't bet on it in the long term. Murphy and his Law are eternally optimistic...[/b]

#3 BELOW

quote:

by MacD37

Now gentlemen there is an intelligent answer with no malice! Only an answer to a question!

................................................................ right on! Jdollar!

I fail to see anything in my comments that is so bad and most were in jest! I think I've shown remarkable restraint in this thread!

....................................................................................................

quote:

Originally posted by ExpressYourself:
Mark has taught me that on a charge you are to shoot inside a triangle. The triangle is formed between the eye sockets and the ridge located at the top of the skull. The 2nd image above shows the area nicely.

Hi Shawn

Without trying to be clever a Hippo at close quaters is absolutely the easist animal to drop in its tracks, if you hit them anywhere in the head they go down, some may after a bit get up again but will certainly give you ample time to finish them off. I have shot several Hippo with a 243 in the brain at 10 yards or closer.

Whilst it makes for great movies it really does not reqiure a huge amount of bravado or shooting skill. Furthermore Hippo are simple to get a charge out of particularly during the dry season when water is at its lowest and bulls are stressed and constantly fighting for territory. They give you plenty of warning, charge in the open and are very easy to put down.

So in short great to watch but with an easy conclusion.

There are 2 topics on AR that are very predictable. Mark Sullivan and Shootaway. Alway the same.

I still contend that thee is an educational aspect to these videos. Where else are you going to see charges etc. up close and personal. The only charge I would like to see is that which occurs on my American Express Card. In the event that one finds a charge occuring it would be nice to have a prior inkling of what to expect.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Russ B:

quote:

Originally posted by ExpressYourself:
Mark has taught me that on a charge you are to shoot inside a triangle. The triangle is formed between the eye sockets and the ridge located at the top of the skull. The 2nd image above shows the area nicely.

Hi Shawn

Without trying to be clever a Hippo at close quaters is absolutely the easist animal to drop in its tracks, if you hit them anywhere in the head they go down, some may after a bit get up again but will certainly give you ample time to finish them off. I have shot several Hippo with a 243 in the brain at 10 yards or closer.

Whilst it makes for great movies it really does not reqiure a huge amount of bravado or shooting skill. Furthermore Hippo are simple to get a charge out of particularly during the dry season when water is at its lowest and bulls are stressed and constantly fighting for territory. They give you plenty of warning, charge in the open and are very easy to put down.

So in short great to watch but with an easy conclusion.

I suppose, as with any animal, your results may vary when a shot is off the mark. Thanks Russ!

Shawn

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
I still contend that thee is an educational aspect to these videos. Where else are you going to see charges etc. up close and personal. The only charge I would like to see is that which occurs on my American Express Card. In the event that one finds a charge occuring it would be nice to have a prior inkling of what to expect.

Jeff

+1. I agree as well Bwana, there is much that can be learned if one is open to the idea.

quote:

Originally posted by ExpressYourself:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
I still contend that thee is an educational aspect to these videos. Where else are you going to see charges etc. up close and personal. The only charge I would like to see is that which occurs on my American Express Card. In the event that one finds a charge occuring it would be nice to have a prior inkling of what to expect.

Jeff

+1. I agree as well Bwana, there is much that can be learned if one is open to the idea.

I agree with both of you in this instance! IMO, the total value of all the "DEATH" videos is to study the body language for early sign of a pending charge of cape buffalo and to a lessor extent hippo, and how NOT to cause a charge!
..................................................................
The body language, especially of cape buffalo, will send messages as to what he is likely to do next! Those films will give you plenty of examples to learn from for a first timer who has no experience with Buffalo. Knowing this body language can be the difference in stopping him, or getting hit if he does,in fact charge!

quote:

Originally posted by ExpressYourself:

quote:

Originally posted by Russ B:

quote:

Originally posted by ExpressYourself:
Mark has taught me that on a charge you are to shoot inside a triangle. The triangle is formed between the eye sockets and the ridge located at the top of the skull. The 2nd image above shows the area nicely.

Hi Shawn

Without trying to be clever a Hippo at close quaters is absolutely the easist animal to drop in its tracks, if you hit them anywhere in the head they go down, some may after a bit get up again but will certainly give you ample time to finish them off. I have shot several Hippo with a 243 in the brain at 10 yards or closer.

Whilst it makes for great movies it really does not reqiure a huge amount of bravado or shooting skill. Furthermore Hippo are simple to get a charge out of particularly during the dry season when water is at its lowest and bulls are stressed and constantly fighting for territory. They give you plenty of warning, charge in the open and are very easy to put down.

So in short great to watch but with an easy conclusion.

I suppose, as with any animal, your results may vary when a shot is off the mark. Thanks Russ!

Shawn

Yes true Shawn I certainly do not advocate inviting a charge from any animal but out of all dangerous game Hippo are really the easiest of all to stop. I guess most people get a huge amount of excitement out of a Hippo charge but I think that when they experince it personally it maybe a bit of a let down.

Just my opinion , nevertheless fun to watch.