quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
There we go again.

"I was a fighter pilot so I superior to the rest of you lot"

OK Todd, if that makes you happy, be my guest.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Larry:
Always good to hear from you.
The article will be published in the African Hunter. I'm waiting on some info on Mark's early life and some pics--not just hunting but to cover his life.
I understand the emotions generated. If Mark discovered a cure for cancer many here would find fault.
In my writings I strive to be as factual as I can. I don't want the article to contain statements by me unless they can be quoted from an actual post--thread name, date, page number, name of poster, etc., That way, no one can find fault.

I hope to get a number of posts Saeed has made as well as quoting outright lies and fabrications. It will be interesting!

On shooting with the client I would put this guess out: I would bet if a client wants to shoot his hippo in the water at 75 yards Mark will agree as he is the PH with a paying client. However (I'm confident to say) clients want some excitement and agree to getting up close. I also will bet Mark will not agree to getting up close with only the client shooting. Look at the hippo at the end of the newest film. The client's shot hit will under the hippo's mouth and hit the front right shoulder. If Mark did not shoot, one or both would be dead. I believe in all cases, both Mark and the client have an understanding and agreement.
Anyway, stay in touch. My .500 Watson Bros is on the way back from Griffin and Howe. Your brass will be well used!
Cheers, mate.
Cal

Cal,

I have posted plenty in answering all the fawning of those who glorify MS in what he does.

And I will be happy to answer any questions you want from me to any actions he does in his safari videos.

AS I have absolutely, positively, no doubt that he is nothing but a showman.

As to his clients, one of his worshipper did mention something sexual in the past.

I will leave that to your own imagination, as who would pay someone else to participate in that activity in one's place

Come to think of it, that is a perfect analogy of what MS does, and his clients love it.

It beggars belief!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
What has buffalo hunting got to do with being a fighter pilot?

Isn't the whole point of you posting it to show us how brave you are?

Do we all have to post our life stories in relations to hunting buffalo?

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Cal,

At the top of the forum, on the left, there is a link that says FIND.

Click on it, and do an advanced search for any mention of Mark Sullivan.

You will get all the gory details on your hero.

By the way, how many wounded buffalo have you seen in his films that were followed into thick bush?

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
eagle 27 -

quote:

So while today ‘getting up close and personal’ is fashionable to promote as the thing to do when hunting dangerous game, not everyone is interested in this concept. Each to his own and I would like to think we can all enjoy our hunting style without holding any one up as the only true hunting style for dangerous game.

Well said that man. I would add that many of us get very close to our prey however that old crusty bull is very rarely in the forefront and when the opportunity arises and he presents himself a shot should be taken whether at 10 or 100 yards.

After all you hunted him proper.

Why is that Andrew? 100 yards on a buffalo when if I were your client, I'd have absolutely NO, read ZERO interest in doing so? If you have a client that is just into taking the first available shot with their "scoped 375" sure, but what if you have a client that prefers to get close with a big double, especially if that client is fine with going home empty handed if it can't be pulled off?

Saeed continues to make these schoolyard kid type of accusations about "needing to prove oneself" and "bravery" and the like. It's a red herring 100% and I'm really starting to think there is something deep seated in his psyche causing this as well as his hatred for Mark Sullivan. The fact remains that some of us have shot buff or elephant at range as well as up close, and going forward have no interest in shooting DG at long range ever again. Everyone should be allowed to do it the way they desire as long as they are paying the bill at the end of the safari. Surely Andrew, you're not stating that you'll pressure a hunter into hunting in a way he doesn't want just to collect the trophy fee (referring to the 100 yard shot that "should" be taken?

And all that talk about the great white hunters of lore? Bell, Southerland, Hunter, etc. Remember those guys were hunting ele for profit thereby maximizing the number of animals taken in the shortest amount of time with the least expenditure possible. They weren't taking to the field in the same way today's sport hunter does, spending a year or several's worth of savings to go out and have the most enjoyable possible retreat from the stresses and boredom of modern life through safari. Completely different motivations.

I enjoy all types of hunting immensely. That said, I get a significantly different thrill out of the pursuit and conclusion to the hunt when I'm after elk than say, squirrels on the back 40. They are both great fun, but there is more to the elk hunt. Why is that? Probably has to do with the majesty of the animal itself, the environment one finds them in, the necessary effort expended in the quest, and so on. I get a great deal of enjoyment out of plains game hunting, even on the RSA ranches. I do! It's a hell of a lot of fun. However, I find absolutely NO step up in enjoyment and adventure when shooting a buffalo at 100 yards than I do shooting an impala or zebra at the same range. Considering the price difference, I want to experience the pursuit to the absolute limit of what is being offered. And what is offered is the opportunity to press into close quarters with dangerous game animals. There IS a step up in that experience and that is what I seek with my money when on a DG safari.

To a large extent, one can say the same about hunting buffalo in herds vs dugga boys! If you have the DVD, Boddington on Buffalo 2, listen to the PHs comments at the beginning of the show. They all talk about the challenge of going into the thick stuff after the lone or doubled up dugga boy and matching wits against him on his turf when he is 100% switched on to any danger that may approach. He is a different animal than the bull slumbering along within a herd. They don't talk about additional danger. They talk about additional skill, tactics, and the challenge required to be successful. For me, it's the same thing. I simply don't find any challenge in the chance driving upon a buff herd and just jumping out to clobber one at 100 yards or more. None! I'd much rather just watch them, taking note of a good place to start tracking from later in the day.

To some extent, I don't find as much challenge in hunting buff herds where typically you just need to get out in front of them and let them saunter by, staying out of sight and hoping the wind holds. But putting the sneaky sneak on that old dugga boy, getting in close enough to shoot with a big bore double rifle, and place the shot correctly ... well that gets my heart a pumping and I feel like I've spent my money well at the end of the day. And I'm perfectly happy to go home empty handed in the event we can't close the deal. Time spent on the trail in pursuit of DG is what I actually go for in the first place. And yes, I've gone home empty handed a couple of times because we couldn't get a shot with the double. Still had one hell of a great time giving it a go! Trust me, and this is for you Saeed, it's got NOTHING to do with trying to "prove bravery". Not that "proving bravery" had anything to do with it either but for sure, I got that macho shit out of my system years ago flying fighters off of aircraft carriers. Hunting to "prove bravery"? Bull Shit! Hunting is for enjoyment - pure and simple. Today, I just like to have the most fun I can while hunting DG. And for me, that means getting close with a big double and unless we need to shoot some bait for a cat hunt, I've got no desire to swap out for a "scoped 375" and cheat myself out of the experience. Obviously some see it differently and that's fine. Just not my thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
From MS own letter "... I do not hunt for the camera or to show off. I do not brag or boast..."

You could have fooled me!

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

And all that talk about the great white hunters of lore? Bell, Southerland, Hunter, etc. Remember those guys were hunting ele for profit thereby maximizing the number of animals taken in the shortest amount of time with the least expenditure possible. They weren't taking to the field in the same way today's sport hunter does, spending a year or several's worth of savings to go out and have the most enjoyable possible retreat from the stresses and boredom of modern life through safari. Completely different motivations.

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:
In Mark Sullivan I see Tom Cruise in "Top Gun"

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Gents:
In my humble opinion getting close to an animal is only proof of hunting skill be it DG or plains game. To state that getting close is to prove one's bravery is as incorrect as stating shooting from a distance proves one's cowardice.

I stalk as close as I can as it is fun, takes skill, my double are not long range weapons, and I can't shoot worth a crap. My closest shot was a grizzly at 8 paces and I sniped a black wildebeest at several hundred yards. And, lots in between. It's all hunting and we are all in the same boat. Hopefully it is not the Titanic.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Gents:
In my humble opinion getting close to an animal is only proof of hunting skill be it DG or plains game. To state that getting close is to prove one's bravery is as incorrect as stating shooting from a distance proves one's cowardice.

I stalk as close as I can as it is fun, takes skill, my double are not long range weapons, and I can't shoot worth a crap. My closest shot was a grizzly at 8 paces and I sniped a black wildebeest at several hundred yards. And, lots in between. It's all hunting and we are all in the same boat. Hopefully it is not the Titanic.
Cal

I think that there is another motivation for some of those that always want to get as close as they can. Before anyone jumps me over the next statement, it is not intended for all of those that prefer to get up close. By getting up close these hunters in some cases, do it to test their metal in a charge situation. After watching Saturday morning safari shows and seeing some elephants being stopped at 5 yards they wonder if they have the balls to stand and face the charge. It is axiomatic that the farther you get into an elephants charge zone the more likely it is to charge.

One place that getting too close when elephant hunting that can cause a needless charge, occurs when hunting breeding herds. If you get too close and can't retreat immediately after you down your target animal, the odds of you being charged by the matriarch of the herd goes up geometrically. Under these conditions the charge is usually a true charge and not a mock charge. You then have to kill her. You end up killing an animal that you don't have on quota and causing significant disturbance to the herd by its losing its leader. The chance of a charge also increases when you use a successful brain shot rather than a heart/lung shot. With he heart lung shot the animal runs off taking the herd with it. If the elephant is knocked down and out or killed from the brain shot it falls and the herd will stand around and maybe try to help it up or look for the person that shot it.

The same is true of getting too close to a lion pride. The closer you get to them the more likely you will be charged by a lioness forcing you to commit the ultimate in lion hunting, the shooting of a breeding age female.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

And all that talk about the great white hunters of lore? Bell, Southerland, Hunter, etc. Remember those guys were hunting ele for profit thereby maximizing the number of animals taken in the shortest amount of time with the least expenditure possible. They weren't taking to the field in the same way today's sport hunter does, spending a year or several's worth of savings to go out and have the most enjoyable possible retreat from the stresses and boredom of modern life through safari. Completely different motivations.

Todd you ask others to carefully read what you write, it would be nice to have the same extended to what I write. What I wrote about the origins of dangerous game hunting was exactly that, I was not comparing it to what we know as the modern safari today in fact my post was to try and show the exact opposite in that those white hunters of old took on dangerous game for completely different reasons and under a range of different styles to suit, i.e. for them it was a means to an end. Many of them did take exceptional heads or skins as trophies like we do today but they took them as they found them. There was no thrill of the hunt or UC&P for them it was just take the trophy and get on with the business of making money.

Like it or not this is how and where the great white hunter stamped his mark on history and from whose writings and first hand experiences have inspired all those, including Mike and yourself I bet, to follow for some of this adventure. How you wish to create your adventure is entirely up to you and your PH and I have no dog in the fight with that, in fact as I have said, I very much enjoy seeing you and Mike's hunt reports and videos and look with some envy on how lucky you are to be able to do this multiple times. My beef is when someone holds "up close and personal" as the 'only' way or the 'traditional' way to hunt dangerous game and any other way is sniping at game and not showing your mettle, or words to that effect written or implied.

Everyone on this forum accepts that for you and Mike and many others UC&P is the way YOU WISH TO HUNT DG, but there is nothing at all in history or today that says this is the right way and that any other way is less exciting or enjoyable for those that prefer another style.

By the way Todd I thought the reference to a fighter pilot was quite timely and can easily be used when looking at the original subject of this thread. Although I do not know you and can only go by what you post and show us in your videos, I see those fighter pilot qualities coming through in your hunting, quiet watchfulness, thinking about what you are doing, have acquired the skills necessary to do what you have to, and the ability to listen to instructions and follow these through. In Mark Sullivan I see Tom Cruise in "Top Gun"

quote:

: Originally posted by fairgame:

QUOTE: How many times have you seen myself or someone like Mike Jines who has vastly more experience than I with DG[/QUOTE



You are joking?

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Cal,

At the top of the forum, on the left, there is a link that says FIND.

Click on it, and do an advanced search for any mention of Mark Sullivan.

You will get all the gory details on your hero.

By the way, how many wounded buffalo have you seen in his films that were followed into thick bush?

Thanks, Saeed. I am somewhat illiterate on many matters involving computers. Thanks for the info and thanks for your digs. It is interesting your disdain for Mark and anyone who enjoys what he does and his films. When I did my tally of the films last spring I didn't look at the thickness of the brush as it was not an issue then. It only manifested itself when you thought of (yet another) way to bash the man.
Cheers, mate.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

That letter is so full bullshit holes one can fly several jumbo jets through them -
(jumbos are bigger than trucks, and those who fly them are braver than truck drivers !

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
eagle 27 -

quote:

So while today ‘getting up close and personal’ is fashionable to promote as the thing to do when hunting dangerous game, not everyone is interested in this concept. Each to his own and I would like to think we can all enjoy our hunting style without holding any one up as the only true hunting style for dangerous game.

Well said that man. I would add that many of us get very close to our prey however that old crusty bull is very rarely in the forefront and when the opportunity arises and he presents himself a shot should be taken whether at 10 or 100 yards.

After all you hunted him proper.

Why is that Andrew? 100 yards on a buffalo when if I were your client, I'd have absolutely NO, read ZERO interest in doing so? If you have a client that is just into taking the first available shot with their "scoped 375" sure, but what if you have a client that prefers to get close with a big double, especially if that client is fine with going home empty handed if it can't be pulled off?

Saeed continues to make these schoolyard kid type of accusations about "needing to prove oneself" and "bravery" and the like. It's a red herring 100% and I'm really starting to think there is something deep seated in his psyche causing this as well as his hatred for Mark Sullivan. The fact remains that some of us have shot buff or elephant at range as well as up close, and going forward have no interest in shooting DG at long range ever again. Everyone should be allowed to do it the way they desire as long as they are paying the bill at the end of the safari. Surely Andrew, you're not stating that you'll pressure a hunter into hunting in a way he doesn't want just to collect the trophy fee (referring to the 100 yard shot that "should" be taken?

And all that talk about the great white hunters of lore? Bell, Southerland, Hunter, etc. Remember those guys were hunting ele for profit thereby maximizing the number of animals taken in the shortest amount of time with the least expenditure possible. They weren't taking to the field in the same way today's sport hunter does, spending a year or several's worth of savings to go out and have the most enjoyable possible retreat from the stresses and boredom of modern life through safari. Completely different motivations.

I enjoy all types of hunting immensely. That said, I get a significantly different thrill out of the pursuit and conclusion to the hunt when I'm after elk than say, squirrels on the back 40. They are both great fun, but there is more to the elk hunt. Why is that? Probably has to do with the majesty of the animal itself, the environment one finds them in, the necessary effort expended in the quest, and so on. I get a great deal of enjoyment out of plains game hunting, even on the RSA ranches. I do! It's a hell of a lot of fun. However, I find absolutely NO step up in enjoyment and adventure when shooting a buffalo at 100 yards than I do shooting an impala or zebra at the same range. Considering the price difference, I want to experience the pursuit to the absolute limit of what is being offered. And what is offered is the opportunity to press into close quarters with dangerous game animals. There IS a step up in that experience and that is what I seek with my money when on a DG safari.

To a large extent, one can say the same about hunting buffalo in herds vs dugga boys! If you have the DVD, Boddington on Buffalo 2, listen to the PHs comments at the beginning of the show. They all talk about the challenge of going into the thick stuff after the lone or doubled up dugga boy and matching wits against him on his turf when he is 100% switched on to any danger that may approach. He is a different animal than the bull slumbering along within a herd. They don't talk about additional danger. They talk about additional skill, tactics, and the challenge required to be successful. For me, it's the same thing. I simply don't find any challenge in the chance driving upon a buff herd and just jumping out to clobber one at 100 yards or more. None! I'd much rather just watch them, taking note of a good place to start tracking from later in the day.

To some extent, I don't find as much challenge in hunting buff herds where typically you just need to get out in front of them and let them saunter by, staying out of sight and hoping the wind holds. But putting the sneaky sneak on that old dugga boy, getting in close enough to shoot with a big bore double rifle, and place the shot correctly ... well that gets my heart a pumping and I feel like I've spent my money well at the end of the day. And I'm perfectly happy to go home empty handed in the event we can't close the deal. Time spent on the trail in pursuit of DG is what I actually go for in the first place. And yes, I've gone home empty handed a couple of times because we couldn't get a shot with the double. Still had one hell of a great time giving it a go! Trust me, and this is for you Saeed, it's got NOTHING to do with trying to "prove bravery". Not that "proving bravery" had anything to do with it either but for sure, I got that macho shit out of my system years ago flying fighters off of aircraft carriers. Hunting to "prove bravery"? Bull Shit! Hunting is for enjoyment - pure and simple. Today, I just like to have the most fun I can while hunting DG. And for me, that means getting close with a big double and unless we need to shoot some bait for a cat hunt, I've got no desire to swap out for a "scoped 375" and cheat myself out of the experience. Obviously some see it differently and that's fine. Just not my thing.

Todd,

What is DG when you employ a fully qualified PH or two to hold your hand?

Did you track your Lion up and take him in his resting place and was it close and personal?

No.

The video of your heroics was to shoot an elephant at close quarters and then to high tail it out of there. Your Ph was no where to be seen and your both ran from what was a potentially DG experience.

quote:

Originally posted by ExpressYourself:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
From MS own letter "... I do not hunt for the camera or to show off. I do not brag or boast..."

You could have fooled me!

Having hunted with Mark personally on and off camera and also in the presence of other hunters that are hunting with Mark on and off camera I would have to agree, that Mark does not hunt for the camera or to show off. I realize some do not fully appreciate his on camera persona. I have not found Mark to brag or boast but he does have a fantastic sense of humor!

Mark hunts exactly the same way on and off camera. He hunts intensely and with focus. His methodology of stalking game, getting close, and pressing their personal space remains unchanged. In my experience, he hunts in this manner because it is how he believes it should be done and thoroughly enjoys hunting this way. It is for no other reason.

He has successfully captured the essence of his style of hunting through film. It has become something that hundreds of thousands around the world enjoy seeing through his produced and internationally marketed and distributed DVD productions. It is also why he is constantly booked for his well-known skills and professional ability. While some like Saeed are clearly threatened by this, the fact remains that it is true.

While I do appreciate that Saeed provides a mechanism for free exchange of ideas and communication through this forum my appreciation wanes at this point. I communicate with a large number of international clients daily. It has become very clear the more that Saeed works to malign and discredit Mark through innuendo and supposed information from an unidentified mystery person, coupled with manufactured AR factoids, the more irrelevant Saeed has become internationally, which is unfortunate. Saeed’s latest angle…sexual innuendo.

I think perhaps Todd is on to something, “And it isn't enough for you to simply say you disagree. For some reason, you must attempt to belittle and crush the opposite view as being inferior to your own! Why that is, only you would know. Something deep seated I suppose.”

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:
I don't think we can call any one type of hunting as 'a true hunting experience' or 'definition of true hunting'

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:
Bell wasn’t the only exponent of sniping elephant from a platform Pondoro Taylor also developed a similar method for racking up tons of tusks from elephant out in the tall grasslands.

quote:

originally posted by JPK:
Harland on the elephants in Zimbabwe's SE lowveld, "There is no doubt in my mind that for every hundred I shot, a higher percentage were downed by frontal brain shots while attacking than has occurred in any other areas one would care to mention. 'Karamojo' Bell would have lasted one or two of these skirmishes, if he was lucky, before scuttling back to camp for his big bore." p.101

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by ExpressYourself:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
From MS own letter "... I do not hunt for the camera or to show off. I do not brag or boast..."

You could have fooled me!

Having hunted with Mark personally on and off camera and also in the presence of other hunters that are hunting with Mark on and off camera I would have to agree, that Mark does not hunt for the camera or to show off. I realize some do not fully appreciate his on camera persona. I have not found Mark to brag or boast but he does have a fantastic sense of humor!

Mark hunts exactly the same way on and off camera. He hunts intensely and with focus. His methodology of stalking game, getting close, and pressing their personal space remains unchanged. In my experience, he hunts in this manner because it is how he believes it should be done and thoroughly enjoys hunting this way. It is for no other reason.

He has successfully captured the essence of his style of hunting through film. It has become something that hundreds of thousands around the world enjoy seeing through his produced and internationally marketed and distributed DVD productions. It is also why he is constantly booked for his well-known skills and professional ability. While some like Saeed are clearly threatened by this, the fact remains that it is true.

While I do appreciate that Saeed provides a mechanism for free exchange of ideas and communication through this forum my appreciation wanes at this point. I communicate with a large number of international clients daily. It has become very clear the more that Saeed works to malign and discredit Mark through innuendo and supposed information from an unidentified mystery person, coupled with manufactured AR factoids, the more irrelevant Saeed has become internationally, which is unfortunate. Saeed’s latest angle…sexual innuendo.

I think perhaps Todd is on to something, “And it isn't enough for you to simply say you disagree. For some reason, you must attempt to belittle and crush the opposite view as being inferior to your own! Why that is, only you would know. Something deep seated I suppose.”

Shawn,

You are a salesman.

You are selling silly videos of a Hollywood showman which have no relevance to what a lot of people think hunting in Africa is really like.

You post your videos clips here to encourage would be buyers to buy those videos.

I point out what I think is wrong with the whole Mark Sullivan mentality.

This tends to put a dent on what how to are trying to promote MS.

So you get upset, as some of the facts I bring up makes your hero look slightly different than what you paint him to be.

As I mentioned earlier, all one has to do is read his own letter.

It defies any logic that it was written by a sane person!

quote:

listen to the PHs comments at the beginning of the show. They all talk about the challenge of going into the thick stuff after the lone or doubled up dugga boy and matching wits against him on his turf when he is 100% switched on to any danger that may approach.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

listen to the PHs comments at the beginning of the show. They all talk about the challenge of going into the thick stuff after the lone or doubled up dugga boy and matching wits against him on his turf when he is 100% switched on to any danger that may approach.

Todd:

Very true and IMO the best kind of buffalo hunt one could ask for. There is a monumental difference however in hunting solitary or doubled up bulls and looking for one in the herd.

Hunting the former is exactly what was stated; the wits and skills of one against the other and if the shot materializes can be within spitting distance - not so with the herds as the lookouts (cows) are a constant PITA and most successes in this scenario come from getting as close as possible and wait in ambush hoping for the target bull to show in the desired opening.

Hunting a bull out of a herd is therefore not a question of skill but getting lucky for the opportunity of a shot and where a scoped rifle would be the right choice for the job.

Your friend Shootaway knows something about buffalo, herds and open sight rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

e27,

As you well know, Bell operated with an open-sighted 7x57, ...Id hardly call that "sniping"....

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

And all that talk about the great white hunters of lore? Bell, Southerland, Hunter, etc. Remember those guys were hunting ele for profit thereby maximizing the number of animals taken in the shortest amount of time with the least expenditure possible. They weren't taking to the field in the same way today's sport hunter does, spending a year or several's worth of savings to go out and have the most enjoyable possible retreat from the stresses and boredom of modern life through safari. Completely different motivations.

Todd you ask others to carefully read what you write, it would be nice to have the same extended to what I write. What I wrote about the origins of dangerous game hunting was exactly that, I was not comparing it to what we know as the modern safari today in fact my post was to try and show the exact opposite in that those white hunters of old took on dangerous game for completely different reasons and under a range of different styles to suit, i.e. for them it was a means to an end. Many of them did take exceptional heads or skins as trophies like we do today but they took them as they found them. There was no thrill of the hunt or UC&P for them it was just take the trophy and get on with the business of making money.

Like it or not this is how and where the great white hunter stamped his mark on history and from whose writings and first hand experiences have inspired all those, including Mike and yourself I bet, to follow for some of this adventure. How you wish to create your adventure is entirely up to you and your PH and I have no dog in the fight with that, in fact as I have said, I very much enjoy seeing you and Mike's hunt reports and videos and look with some envy on how lucky you are to be able to do this multiple times. My beef is when someone holds "up close and personal" as the 'only' way or the 'traditional' way to hunt dangerous game and any other way is sniping at game and not showing your mettle, or words to that effect written or implied.

Everyone on this forum accepts that for you and Mike and many others UC&P is the way YOU WISH TO HUNT DG, but there is nothing at all in history or today that says this is the right way and that any other way is less exciting or enjoyable for those that prefer another style.

By the way Todd I thought the reference to a fighter pilot was quite timely and can easily be used when looking at the original subject of this thread. Although I do not know you and can only go by what you post and show us in your videos, I see those fighter pilot qualities coming through in your hunting, quiet watchfulness, thinking about what you are doing, have acquired the skills necessary to do what you have to, and the ability to listen to instructions and follow these through. In Mark Sullivan I see Tom Cruise in "Top Gun"

Free 500grains

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

He was about 280 when I shot him.

That must have been exciting.

Free 500grains

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Gents:
In my humble opinion getting close to an animal is only proof of hunting skill be it DG or plains game. To state that getting close is to prove one's bravery is as incorrect as stating shooting from a distance proves one's cowardice.

I stalk as close as I can as it is fun, takes skill, my double are not long range weapons, and I can't shoot worth a crap. My closest shot was a grizzly at 8 paces and I sniped a black wildebeest at several hundred yards. And, lots in between. It's all hunting and we are all in the same boat. Hopefully it is not the Titanic.
Cal

I think that there is another motivation for some of those that always want to get as close as they can. Before anyone jumps me over the next statement, it is not intended for all of those that prefer to get up close. By getting up close these hunters in some cases, do it to test their metal in a charge situation. After watching Saturday morning safari shows and seeing some elephants being stopped at 5 yards they wonder if they have the balls to stand and face the charge. It is axiomatic that the farther you get into an elephants charge zone the more likely it is to charge.

One place that getting too close when elephant hunting that can cause a needless charge, occurs when hunting breeding herds. If you get too close and can't retreat immediately after you down your target animal, the odds of you being charged by the matriarch of the herd goes up geometrically. Under these conditions the charge is usually a true charge and not a mock charge. You then have to kill her. You end up killing an animal that you don't have on quota and causing significant disturbance to the herd by its losing its leader. The chance of a charge also increases when you use a successful brain shot rather than a heart/lung shot. With he heart lung shot the animal runs off taking the herd with it. If the elephant is knocked down and out or killed from the brain shot it falls and the herd will stand around and maybe try to help it up or look for the person that shot it.

The same is true of getting too close to a lion pride. The closer you get to them the more likely you will be charged by a lioness forcing you to commit the ultimate in lion hunting, the shooting of a breeding age female.

465H&H

Free 500grains

quote:

The same is true of getting too close to a lion pride. The closer you get to them the more likely you will be charged by a lioness forcing you to commit the ultimate in lion hunting, the shooting of a breeding age female

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:
In Mark Sullivan I see Tom Cruise in "Top Gun"

Holy crap, you just made the man even more insufferable than he is already.