quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:
John,

Settle down a notch there partner. John Taylor may or may not have been gay. Either way it isn't an insult or taking away from who he was or what he did. I think a few were making a joke or two. Who cares.

Brett

Cheap shots at dead folks, go for your life, whatever turns you on.

Just don't get too ruffled if someone takes the opposing view.

quote:

Originally posted by John Frederick:

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:
John,

Settle down a notch there partner. John Taylor may or may not have been gay. Either way it isn't an insult or taking away from who he was or what he did. I think a few were making a joke or two. Who cares.

Brett

Cheap shots at dead folks, go for your life, whatever turns you on.

Just don't get too ruffled if someone takes the opposing view.

I think it's a cheap shot if being gay is an insult to you or you think gays=bad. I don't so I see it as someone making a joke. Different view points.

Brett

John, I almost spit my friggin coffee out after reading that one!!

And to answer your question...hey 2 weeks in the bush away from a women...what happens in the blind stays in the blind!

Is that because you wouldn't be able to trust yourself.

Taylor would no doubt heave you out as soon as you went for the first grope. :animal[/QUOTE]

quote:

Another closet queer.

Isn't it fun to knock people when they are dead.

Mr. Frederick,

I was making a joke. Sorry if it offended. But...if you can't take the heat...stay out of the kitchen!

I agree with you Brett A. M, I don't have a problem with Gays either.

However I don't think you will get much support from a lot of the "God Botherers" that are around.

Mind you, the R.C. Church loves them, in fact it breeds them.

quote:

Originally posted by John Frederick:
I agree with you Brett A. M, I don't have a problem with Gays either.

However I don't think you will get much support from a lot of the "God Botherers" that are around.

Mind you, the R.C. Church loves them, in fact it breeds them.

Well I consider myself a Godly person and the bible says love thy brother. I figure it isn't multiple choice, so I just love. God can do the judging if any is needed.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:

quote:

Originally posted by John Frederick:
I agree with you Brett A. M, I don't have a problem with Gays either.

However I don't think you will get much support from a lot of the "God Botherers" that are around.

Mind you, the R.C. Church loves them, in fact it breeds them.

Well I consider myself a Godly person and the bible says love thy brother. I figure it isn't multiple choice, so I just love. God can do the judging if any is needed.

Brett

I thought "love ins" went out in the 60's.

Tough gig,.......loving everybody.

try "...hate the sin. love the sinner...". Heck, I don't agree with everything my parents did, or my wife does now. Sometimes you just don't like them very much, but ya gotta love 'em.

God Bless all of you, and some of you are hard to like, let alone love.

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by John Frederick:

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:

quote:

Originally posted by John Frederick:
I agree with you Brett A. M, I don't have a problem with Gays either.

However I don't think you will get much support from a lot of the "God Botherers" that are around.

Mind you, the R.C. Church loves them, in fact it breeds them.

Well I consider myself a Godly person and the bible says love thy brother. I figure it isn't multiple choice, so I just love. God can do the judging if any is needed.

Brett

I thought "love ins" went out in the 60's.

Tough gig,.......loving everybody.

What can I say I'm just a 20 something year old conservative old hippie from the 60s!

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:

quote:

Originally posted by John Frederick:

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:

quote:

Originally posted by John Frederick:
I agree with you Brett A. M, I don't have a problem with Gays either.

However I don't think you will get much support from a lot of the "God Botherers" that are around.

Mind you, the R.C. Church loves them, in fact it breeds them.

Well I consider myself a Godly person and the bible says love thy brother. I figure it isn't multiple choice, so I just love. God can do the judging if any is needed.

Brett

I thought "love ins" went out in the 60's.

Tough gig,.......loving everybody.

What can I say I'm just a 20 something year old conservative old hippie from the 60s!

Brett

A very rare breed indeed.

You must be one of the few in captivity.

I knew Peter Capstick reasonably well, and I think a lot of his widow, Fiona (gifted writer and speaker), and her husband, Adelino Peres (truly a great African hunter). Peter was a true gentleman and a great storyteller. He brought a lot of people to the party, and must be given much credit for the resurgence in interest in Africa. Honestly, I don't think anyone knows the whole true story...but even if we did, what would it serve? His books are part of the literature of Africana that we all love. Like many stories, there are grains of truth here and there...and a bit of exaggeration. Some years ago a colleague of mine told me that he thought it unlikely that PHC had ever been in Zambia, let alone served as a game control officer or PH...and then somebody found a 1975 flyer from the late Peter Hankins, announcing PHC as the new resident hunter in one of his camps. I saw it, it was real...he was definitely there, though for how long and in what capacity I have no idea. I'd love to read an accurate biography...but I don't think it would be an easy one to research. Maybe it's better to just enjoy his books. Cheers, Craig

Anyone that I talk to that isn't a hunter and is neutral or against hunting, I buy "Death in the long Grass" for. That book has transformed more antihunters than I ever could.

PHC made me go to Africa.

He was a great story teller. Who cares about the rest?

Armbar.

quote:

I saw it, it was real...he was definitely there, though for how long and in what capacity I have no idea. I'd love to read an accurate biography...but I don't think it would be an easy one to research. Maybe it's better to just enjoy his books. Cheers, Craig

Thank you for posting that Craig.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Another closet queer.

Isn't it fun to knock people when they are dead.

Mr. Frederick,

I was making a joke. Sorry if it offended. But...if you can't take the heat...stay out of the kitchen!

Can I finnish my rissoto first, just got to add the calamari then I'll be gone.

Looks good, smells delicious.

quote:

Originally posted by craig boddington:
I knew Peter Capstick reasonably well, and I think a lot of his widow, Fiona (gifted writer and speaker), and her husband, Adelino Peres (truly a great African hunter). Peter was a true gentleman and a great storyteller. He brought a lot of people to the party, and must be given much credit for the resurgence in interest in Africa. Honestly, I don't think anyone knows the whole true story...but even if we did, what would it serve? His books are part of the literature of Africana that we all love. Like many stories, there are grains of truth here and there...and a bit of exaggeration. Some years ago a colleague of mine told me that he thought it unlikely that PHC had ever been in Zambia, let alone served as a game control officer or PH...and then somebody found a 1975 flyer from the late Peter Hankins, announcing PHC as the new resident hunter in one of his camps. I saw it, it was real...he was definitely there, though for how long and in what capacity I have no idea. I'd love to read an accurate biography...but I don't think it would be an easy one to research. Maybe it's better to just enjoy his books. Cheers, Craig

Excellent post Craig.

If I remember correctly Peter Hankin met his end with a lion, very sad.

I also know folks who either knew Peter well or knew a lot about him. He was in Zambia, he was a PH, and he did hunt in other countries.

I don't know why people find that hard to accept.

Peter Hankin's death is covered by Capstick as the very first story in the first chapter of his first book, "Death in the Long Grass".

I, for one, would love to see a Capstick biography. I hope that someday an author will step forward and write one.

I enjoy reading Capstick's books as entertainment and I think they should be viewed as such. I do remember using Capstick's "Maneaters" as a source for a term paper in college. The portion where I referenced his book was awash in red ink. Taught me a bit of a lesson when it came to the veracity of my sources.

quote:

Peter was a true gentleman and a great storyteller. He brought a lot of people to the party, and must be given much credit for the resurgence in interest in Africa.

For me??? NUF' Said.

PHC was a great writer I love his style and read everything of his I can find.

Mr. Boddington, thanks for posting that, I sure enjoyed meeting you in Dallas. Maybe you could do tha Capstick biography one day, I very much like your writing style also.

.

quote:

Can I finnish my rissoto first

Only if you hurry!!!

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Can I finnish my rissoto first

Only if you hurry!!!

It was excellent, pity you weren't able to join me.

Maybe some other time.

quote:

Originally posted by John Frederick:

quote:

Originally posted by craig boddington:
I knew Peter Capstick reasonably well, and I think a lot of his widow, Fiona (gifted writer and speaker), and her husband, Adelino Peres (truly a great African hunter). Peter was a true gentleman and a great storyteller. He brought a lot of people to the party, and must be given much credit for the resurgence in interest in Africa. Honestly, I don't think anyone knows the whole true story...but even if we did, what would it serve? His books are part of the literature of Africana that we all love. Like many stories, there are grains of truth here and there...and a bit of exaggeration. Some years ago a colleague of mine told me that he thought it unlikely that PHC had ever been in Zambia, let alone served as a game control officer or PH...and then somebody found a 1975 flyer from the late Peter Hankins, announcing PHC as the new resident hunter in one of his camps. I saw it, it was real...he was definitely there, though for how long and in what capacity I have no idea. I'd love to read an accurate biography...but I don't think it would be an easy one to research. Maybe it's better to just enjoy his books. Cheers, Craig

Excellent post Craig.

If I remember correctly Peter Hankin met his end with a lion, very sad.

I also know folks who either knew Peter well or knew a lot about him. He was in Zambia, he was a PH, and he did hunt in other countries.

I don't know why people find that hard to accept.

Have you watched his video series? If not I suggest you buy them and watch all of them prior to posting here again. I can't think of a single thing that has pegged my BS meter more then watching Capstick fumble around and spew nonsense. I have never seen a person look more uncomfortable while hunting, really.

I'm currently reading Tony Sanchez-Arinoz's Last of the Few and I if didn't know better he is taking some shots at Capstick in the book without naming him.

As soon as Fiona dies we are going to see biographies pour out of the wood work and they will sell like crazy. Someone will have the balls to right a book like Alan Ritchie's on Ruark.

Capstick died at the hands of his alcoholism and his health was destroyed because of this abuse. This ALONE is enough to make any sane man not wish he were Capstick. Jealous of the mans ability to write exciting stories? Sure. Jealous of the man? Not even almost.

If you ever find yourself in an arguement and the only points are "don't talk about the dead" or "you're jealous" don't bother because you are probably on the wrong side of the argument.

Geoff: Whatever Capstick was, I am reluctant to scorn him for his alcohol issues. For some folks, alcoholism is as much a condition as diabetes --unasked for (inasmuch as alcohol is an inseparable part of our culture) and very difficult to treat.

I really enjoyed Capstick's books, would probably never have hunted cape buff if I hadn't read his books.

quote:

Originally posted by GeoffM24:

quote:

Originally posted by John Frederick:

quote:

Originally posted by craig boddington:
I knew Peter Capstick reasonably well, and I think a lot of his widow, Fiona (gifted writer and speaker), and her husband, Adelino Peres (truly a great African hunter). Peter was a true gentleman and a great storyteller. He brought a lot of people to the party, and must be given much credit for the resurgence in interest in Africa. Honestly, I don't think anyone knows the whole true story...but even if we did, what would it serve? His books are part of the literature of Africana that we all love. Like many stories, there are grains of truth here and there...and a bit of exaggeration. Some years ago a colleague of mine told me that he thought it unlikely that PHC had ever been in Zambia, let alone served as a game control officer or PH...and then somebody found a 1975 flyer from the late Peter Hankins, announcing PHC as the new resident hunter in one of his camps. I saw it, it was real...he was definitely there, though for how long and in what capacity I have no idea. I'd love to read an accurate biography...but I don't think it would be an easy one to research. Maybe it's better to just enjoy his books. Cheers, Craig

Excellent post Craig.

If I remember correctly Peter Hankin met his end with a lion, very sad.

I also know folks who either knew Peter well or knew a lot about him. He was in Zambia, he was a PH, and he did hunt in other countries.

I don't know why people find that hard to accept.

Have you watched his video series? If not I suggest you buy them and watch all of them prior to posting here again. I can't think of a single thing that has pegged my BS meter more then watching Capstick fumble around and spew nonsense. I have never seen a person look more uncomfortable while hunting, really.

I'm currently reading Tony Sanchez-Arinoz's Last of the Few and I if didn't know better he is taking some shots at Capstick in the book without naming him.

As soon as Fiona dies we are going to see biographies pour out of the wood work and they will sell like crazy. Someone will have the balls to right a book like Alan Ritchie's on Ruark.

Capstick died at the hands of his alcoholism and his health was destroyed because of this abuse. This ALONE is enough to make any sane man not wish he were Capstick. Jealous of the mans ability to write exciting stories? Sure. Jealous of the man? Not even almost.

If you ever find yourself in an arguement and the only points are "don't talk about the dead" or "you're jealous" don't bother because you are probably on the wrong side of the argument.

I think it was actually Craig Boddington who brought up a very valid point about the videos when someone else made a comment like this. Hunting videos were of a different quality and standard at that time for starters. Secondly Capstick wasn't use to being a video "host" and as a result seemed like a fish out of water at times. Mostly those were the spontanious live action shots. The thought out shots he seemed much more lucid. Also some of the videos where better than others. Capstick was at his best in the elephant one and it's probably my favorite. The lion one isn't bad either. Although I think I just love the tracking lion hunt in Botswana with Cundill, Blackbeard, and Rann.

The alcoholism and drinking himself to death certainly make him a flawed human, but then again who isn't? If any one previous to this post thought I was perfect let me inform you that you are woefully mistaken! And I would imaging that statement holds true for everyone else here. Capstick, Hemingway, and Ruark were all drunks. Capstick and Ruark litteraly drank themselves to death. Hemingway drank himself to depression and suicide. Does that take away from their writing? Hell no! Does it make them flawed? Yes! I agree that as soon as Fiona passes the writers will call and it may not be pretty!

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:

quote:

By Boddington
Some years ago a colleague of mine told me that he thought it unlikely that PHC had ever been in Zambia, let alone served as a game control officer or PH...and then somebody found a 1975 flyer from the late Peter Hankins, announcing PHC as the new resident hunter in one of his camps. I saw it, it was real...he was definitely there, though for how long and in what capacity I have no idea.

I find it an exercise futility to post anything that is not negative in regard to Peter Hathaway Capstick. It is like sticking you head out of a foxhole in a fire fight!

However let me say a couple of things about PHC that I find in error here. Though Peter was a hopeless drunk,as the others mentioned here by Brett, that is not what killed him. He died from complications from By-pass surgery.

Adtionally, I have not seen the flier mentioned by Craig, but I have seen a work permit issued by Zambia listing him as profesional hunter, along with his passport, and work Visa.

quote:

Excellent post Craig.

The alcoholism and drinking himself to death certainly make him a flawed human, but then again who isn't? If any one previous to this post thought I was perfect let me inform you that you are woefully mistaken! And I would imaging that statement holds true for everyone else here. Capstick, Hemingway, and Ruark were all drunks. Capstick and Ruark litteraly drank themselves to death. Hemingway drank himself to depression and suicide. Brett

Capstick did not drink himself to death, as stated above in this post.

I have always said how would I do if someone poked a microphone in my face and asked me to say something profound. I doubt I would do as well as Peter did. I can say one thing about Peter's Mauser Bolt 375 H&H rifle. Acording to Cundill He could shoot that thing faster than anyone he'd ever witnessed. I talked to Volker Grellman about the ele film with Peter, and he had nothing but glowing praise for Peter's knowledge of wildlife, elephant in particular. Volker enjoyed hunting with Peter.

Peter's films were some of the earliest in safari films and were, for the time, truly broadcast quality films. These films were not, for the most part, Peter hunting but Ken Willson's. On those films Peter,Cundell, Volker, Blackbeard, Jeff Rann, and Ronnie Sparrow, were the PHs and were there for interviews as much as anything else, because at that time, most in the USA knew absolutely nothing about African hunting, or the wild life there. There was a lot of information in those films.

For the times. the Sportsmen on film's capstick films were top of the line in filming quality.

You can down PHC all you want, but at the end of the day, every swinging sack in the safari business owes Peter a debt they could never pay, because had it not been for Capstick, the safari buiness would have died a slow death long ago.

Now before I get into a fire fight, I'll simply fade into the shadows, and watch the action!

....................... BYE!

Mac,

That first quote isn't mine. The second is mine. Thanks for the correction on his cause of death.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:
Mac,

That first quote isn't mine. The second is mine.
Brett

I was aware of that fact, I just failed to put the author in the quote!

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:
Mac,

That first quote isn't mine. The second is mine.
Brett

I was aware of that fact, I just failed to put the author in the quote!

My name is above the first quote, so it looks like it's mine. That's what I was saying.

Brett

Thanks to MacD37 and CB for their posts about their personal experience with PHC.

This thread reminds me of my Indian nostalgia and of Jim Corbet & Kenneth Anderson. Particularly of Anderson's writings of hunting in South India. The big difference is that Anderson never shot a single tiger or elephant and a lot of his stories were just that imaginative stories located in real places. But the animals - man eaters etc. were fictitious. None of those animals were gazetted in the local government records. His son Donald was a more credible hunter (no man eaters thought). My father issued hunting licenses to Donald on some occasions. Corbett on the other hand was totally authentic and historically verifiable.

My opinion based on the information in this thread is that PHC was a great writer and pioneering Safari movie maker who contributed significantly to the renewed interest in African Safari. He did hunt in Africa and elsewhere. He is not mentioned in Hern's book "White hunter" and I wonder what Hern has to say about PHC.

However I will always read PHC and enjoy his books. I only read 2 of Anderson's books and will never read him again. I will read Jim Corbet again and again!

quote:

Hemingway drank himself to depression and suicide

This shows a very short-sighted and uneducated view of how Hemingway was different than Ruark And PHC. The demons who haunted these men were quite different, to lump them together by the commonality of alcohol consumption is asinine.

We now return to the PHC bashing, already in progress...

quote:

Originally posted by craig boddington:
I knew Peter Capstick reasonably well, and I think a lot of his widow, Fiona (gifted writer and speaker), and her husband, Adelino Peres (truly a great African hunter). Peter was a true gentleman and a great storyteller. He brought a lot of people to the party, and must be given much credit for the resurgence in interest in Africa. Honestly, I don't think anyone knows the whole true story...but even if we did, what would it serve? His books are part of the literature of Africana that we all love. Like many stories, there are grains of truth here and there...and a bit of exaggeration. Some years ago a colleague of mine told me that he thought it unlikely that PHC had ever been in Zambia, let alone served as a game control officer or PH...and then somebody found a 1975 flyer from the late Peter Hankins, announcing PHC as the new resident hunter in one of his camps. I saw it, it was real...he was definitely there, though for how long and in what capacity I have no idea. I'd love to read an accurate biography...but I don't think it would be an easy one to research. Maybe it's better to just enjoy his books. Cheers, Craig

Good words, these. Mr Capstick and I had a mutual friend (I didn't know PHC), but Arnie spoke well of him. I like his writing...as many others, that's what got me interested in Africa in the first place.

quote:

Originally posted by craig boddington:
I knew Peter Capstick reasonably well, and I think a lot of his widow, Fiona (gifted writer and speaker), and her husband, Adelino Peres (truly a great African hunter). Peter was a true gentleman and a great storyteller. He brought a lot of people to the party, and must be given much credit for the resurgence in interest in Africa. Honestly, I don't think anyone knows the whole true story...but even if we did, what would it serve? His books are part of the literature of Africana that we all love. Like many stories, there are grains of truth here and there...and a bit of exaggeration. Some years ago a colleague of mine told me that he thought it unlikely that PHC had ever been in Zambia, let alone served as a game control officer or PH...and then somebody found a 1975 flyer from the late Peter Hankins, announcing PHC as the new resident hunter in one of his camps. I saw it, it was real...he was definitely there, though for how long and in what capacity I have no idea. I'd love to read an accurate biography...but I don't think it would be an easy one to research. Maybe it's better to just enjoy his books. Cheers, Craig

I gave my daughter a spare copy of Death in the Long Grass over Christmas. She's 38 and thinks my hunting is really cool, but I wanted her to get a bit of Africana from someone besides me. She's heard my tales of the relief flights we did over the years and of my few safaris, but I couldn't think of a better way to expand her horizons than by giving her that book. What the hell,...she gave me your video on buff hunting before my first hunt and it worked for me. Can't complain about a daughter like that.

quote:

or PH...and then somebody

Have most or all (I think) of Capsticks books. Just started re-reading them, for the third time. Regardless exactly where he was and what he did, he had a captivating style with a bit of self deprecation in his work and I enjoy reading him very much.

Thank you Mr. Boddington, for a concise and appropriate summation of PHC. He was a great story teller and brought many of us here the taste of africa that we may well never get off our tongues, even if we never go there. To debate the details is a worthless excercise. Mr. Capstick's work is done and it is what it is. To many of us the inspiration to dream, if not experience the allure of Africa. I'd say he accomplished a great deal, no matter how it got done.

375er

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:

quote:

Hemingway drank himself to depression and suicide

This shows a very short-sighted and uneducated view of how Hemingway was different than Ruark And PHC. The demons who haunted these men were quite different, to lump them together by the commonality of alcohol consumption is asinine.

We now return to the PHC bashing, already in progress...

You need to read up on Hemingway. He suffered two very serious head injuries during his life that very likely contributed to his untimely demise. He shot himself because he could no longer write, not because he got drunk one night and decided to do it. His father was also a suicide and he always blamed his mother for his father's death.

Not much was known about clinical depression in those days, and the shrinks are still often baffled by it, psychiatry being primarlly voodoo science, anyway.

Oversimplification about geniuses always results in short sighted opinions.

quote:

Originally posted by jetdrvr:

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:

quote:

Hemingway drank himself to depression and suicide

This shows a very short-sighted and uneducated view of how Hemingway was different than Ruark And PHC. The demons who haunted these men were quite different, to lump them together by the commonality of alcohol consumption is asinine.

We now return to the PHC bashing, already in progress...

You need to read up on Hemingway. He suffered two very serious head injuries during his life that very likely contributed to his untimely demise. He shot himself because he could no longer write, not because he got drunk one night and decided to do it. His father was also a suicide and he always blamed his mother for his father's death.

Not much was known about clinical depression in those days, and the shrinks are still often baffled by it, psychiatry being primarlly voodoo science, anyway.

Oversimplification about geniuses always results in short sighted opinions.

"Hemingway drank himself to depression and suicide" is my comment and would have been better worded to say Hemingway suffered from depression and his drinking in no way helped that. In the end he was so dipressed he shot himself. As well as his father I believe one of his children commited suicide as well. Obviously the Hemingways are prone to depresion. Sorry I'm asinine and I'll won't be returning to PHC bashing as I wasn't in the first place.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:

quote:

Hemingway drank himself to depression and suicide

This shows a very short-sighted and uneducated view of how Hemingway was different than Ruark And PHC. The demons who haunted these men were quite different, to lump them together by the commonality of alcohol consumption is asinine.

We now return to the PHC bashing, already in progress...

Would it be fair to say all three had a drinking problem and it negatively affected their life in one way or another? Would it be fair to say that Hemingway's drinking negatively affected his depression which ultimately ended up killing him? Would it be fair to say that Raurk and Capstick suffered from very poor health toward the end of their lives and that may have been somewhat to signifigantly impacted by their drinking? Just a thought.

Brett

quote:

You need to read up on Hemingway. He suffered two very serious head injuries during his life that very likely contributed to his untimely demise. He shot himself because he could no longer write, not because he got drunk one night and decided to do it. His father was also a suicide and he always blamed his mother for his father's death

I bet I've read more on Hemingway than most on this forum I know full well about the head injuries. I also know about the clear fluid that leaked out on the pillow at night after the accidents that was brushed off. HE clearly suffered physical injury to his brain (including shock treatment later on) and this with the family history led him to where he went. You are right, the inability to write any longer and a deep paranoia did him in. These are the demons I spoke of and they in no way resemble Ruark's or PHC's. I also know that a truely suicidal person will always find a way to do themselves in and nothing would have stopped him. In fact, he should have been dead long before if it were not for physical intervention. I have experienced this first-hand as suicide and depression runs like a freight train through my family and are the most hindsight-ed and misunderstood disorders out there. Neither Jack, nor Greg killed themselves (although Greg was a very disturbed individual) and Patrick is still alive.

BAB, you'll note I didn;t mention that you specifically bashed PHC; I have read the past posts. But alas, to do the tie-back, I think PHC was a fraud in the sense that anyone who tells stories is a fraud as the truth, even of non-fiction, invariably lies somewhere in the space between the words on the pages. Still, as reluctant as many are to do, we should, most of us, carry a small talisman, adorned with a beret, monacle, wearing sneakers with no socks to pay homage to the person who at least provided that tiny spark that led us where we are today.

quote:

Would it be fair to say all three had a drinking problem and it negatively affected their life in one way or another? Would it be fair to say that Hemingway's drinking negatively affected his depression which ultimately ended up killing him? Would it be fair to say that Raurk and Capstick suffered from very poor health toward the end of their lives and that may have been somewhat to signifigantly impacted by their drinking? Just a thought

This wasn't the argument, that Hemingway drank himself to depression and suicide was. Let's not change the premise now that the debate has begun.

Alcoholic Definition: Someone who drinks more than you do.

Being a tea-totaller won't help you live longer, it will just seem looooonger.

John, you crack me up.