quote:

Originally posted by TANZ-PH:

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
OK! Call me stupid.

Trackers, cook, laundry boy, six people on the payroll. At a hundred dollars a day, each, that's $600. The Hilton honeymoon suite, that's $500 a day. Meals, $200 a day.
That's $1350. So, the PH is only knocking down $1200 day to drive three or four of us around each day to LOOK at game.

If I shoot a Buffalo it's another $2300.

I understand now, they are just trying to get by until the world recovers from the worst two years of recorded history economically speaking.

Thanks for enlightening me, I think...

Rich
DRSS

Dont worry, I will not call you stupid. However some of your comments can be really absurd. Such as:"PH only knocking down $1200 day to drive 3 or 4 of us around each day to LOOK at game" ISS, do you really believe that's all there is to a PH's job & responsibilities??? Do you really believe its just that simple?? Let me assure you, its not.

6 people on the payroll? we have a about 13 staff working per camp each year.

In Tanzania, the trophy fees all go to the government...not the PH or outfitter, as you seem to suggest. We make nothing on it.

I agree the economy is bad. But as PHs we all have to pay huge fees for PH permits, TALA, and Resident permit each year. That cost does NOT go down because of a bad economy. Each year the price of our operating expenses, i.e. ammo & other gear, hotels, meals, plane tickets ALL GO UP for us PHs (too). Again, NO Recession discounts.

If you feel the Hilton honeymoon suite is the better deal for your money...maybe thats the way to go? but you are really comparing Apples to Pumpkins; a remote safari camp offers alot more services and operating expenses (PH, trackers,driver, skinner, laundry, etc) then the hilton room (maid & a mini bar). comparing a hotel room and a safari camp is just plain ridiculous!

I hope this also enlightned you.....

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by TANZ-PH:

quote:
Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
OK! Call me stupid.

Trackers, cook, laundry boy, six people on the payroll. At a hundred dollars a day, each, that's $600. The Hilton honeymoon suite, that's $500 a day. Meals, $200 a day.
That's $1350. So, the PH is only knocking down $1200 day to drive three or four of us around each day to LOOK at game.

If I shoot a Buffalo it's another $2300.

I understand now, they are just trying to get by until the world recovers from the worst two years of recorded history economically speaking.

Thanks for enlightening me, I think...

Rich
DRSS


Dont worry, I will not call you stupid. However some of your comments can be really absurd. Such as:"PH only knocking down $1200 day to drive 3 or 4 of us around each day to LOOK at game" ISS, do you really believe that's all there is to a PH's job & responsibilities??? Do you really believe its just that simple?? Let me assure you, its not.

6 people on the payroll? we have a about 13 staff working per camp each year.

In Tanzania, the trophy fees all go to the government...not the PH or outfitter, as you seem to suggest. We make nothing on it.

I agree the economy is bad. But as PHs we all have to pay huge fees for PH permits, TALA, and Resident permit each year. That cost does NOT go down because of a bad economy. Each year the price of our operating expenses, i.e. ammo & other gear, hotels, meals, plane tickets ALL GO UP for us PHs (too). Again, NO Recession discounts.

If you feel the Hilton honeymoon suite is the better deal for your money...maybe thats the way to go? but you are really comparing Apples to Pumpkins; a remote safari camp offers alot more services and operating expenses (PH, trackers,driver, skinner, laundry, etc) then the hilton room (maid & a mini bar). comparing a hotel room and a safari camp is just plain ridiculous!

I hope this also enlightned you.....



When I pulled in to Adam Clements camp in the Selous there were three new hunting vehicles at about $50K a piece rigged out and one what appeared to be a 2 ton truck for hauling supplies. That would be $200K plus in vehicles for one hunter in camp. During the hunt a driver busted a front end on one vehicle and the dining hut burned with everything in it. There were enough items in camp to repalce everything including the refrigerator and propane tank.

I am sure concession fees or leases cost a couple of dollars.

With other than some of the Masailand hunts I wonder how operators make money on remote camps.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by TANZ-PH:

quote:
Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
OK! Call me stupid.

Trackers, cook, laundry boy, six people on the payroll. At a hundred dollars a day, each, that's $600. The Hilton honeymoon suite, that's $500 a day. Meals, $200 a day.
That's $1350. So, the PH is only knocking down $1200 day to drive three or four of us around each day to LOOK at game.

If I shoot a Buffalo it's another $2300.

I understand now, they are just trying to get by until the world recovers from the worst two years of recorded history economically speaking.

Thanks for enlightening me, I think...

Rich
DRSS


Dont worry, I will not call you stupid. However some of your comments can be really absurd. Such as:"PH only knocking down $1200 day to drive 3 or 4 of us around each day to LOOK at game" ISS, do you really believe that's all there is to a PH's job & responsibilities??? Do you really believe its just that simple?? Let me assure you, its not.

6 people on the payroll? we have a about 13 staff working per camp each year.

In Tanzania, the trophy fees all go to the government...not the PH or outfitter, as you seem to suggest. We make nothing on it.

I agree the economy is bad. But as PHs we all have to pay huge fees for PH permits, TALA, and Resident permit each year. That cost does NOT go down because of a bad economy. Each year the price of our operating expenses, i.e. ammo & other gear, hotels, meals, plane tickets ALL GO UP for us PHs (too). Again, NO Recession discounts.

If you feel the Hilton honeymoon suite is the better deal for your money...maybe thats the way to go? but you are really comparing Apples to Pumpkins; a remote safari camp offers alot more services and operating expenses (PH, trackers,driver, skinner, laundry, etc) then the hilton room (maid & a mini bar). comparing a hotel room and a safari camp is just plain ridiculous!

I hope this also enlightned you.....



When I pulled in to Adam Clements camp in the Selous there were three new hunting vehicles at about $50K a piece rigged out and one what appeared to be a 2 ton truck for hauling supplies. That would be $200K plus in vehicles for one hunter in camp. During the hunt a driver busted a front end on one vehicle and the dining hut burned with everything in it. There were enough items in camp to repalce everything including the refrigerator and propane tank.

I am sure concession fees or leases cost a couple of dollars.

With other than some of the Masailand hunts I wonder how operators make money on remote camps.

Mike

Hey ISS, what did the 5 fingers say to the face?



cold blooded

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Six black men in my Buffalo camp with CM SAfaris in 2008.
Three trackers, a laundry man, a cook and a go-fer.

Three black men and a nice black lady (cook)in camp when I hunted RSA in April of 2010. Trackers.

Where would you find room to put thirteen people in a safari camp? That's a small town...
I can see three trackers, one cook/laundry person and the PH and I. Who were the other nine you need? What do they do? How many of them go out hunting with you and the client? You got foosball tables there? You need to bring the concept of multi-tasking to Africa.

The last Hilton I stayed at had room service, the nice man at the desk offered to find me a dinner companion; and there was a three piece group playing in the lounge.

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Six black men in my Buffalo camp with CM SAfaris in 2008.
Three trackers, a laundry man, a cook and a go-fer.

Three black men and a nice black lady (cook)in camp when I hunted RSA in April of 2010. Trackers.

Where would you find room to put thirteen people in a safari camp? That's a small town...
I can see three trackers, one cook/laundry person and the PH and I. Who were the other nine you need? What do they do? How many of them go out hunting with you and the client? You got foosball tables there? You need to bring the concept of multi-tasking to Africa.

The last Hilton I stayed at had room service, the nice man at the desk offered to find me a dinner companion; and there was a three piece group playing in the lounge.

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
what do they all do?

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
what do they all do?

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by TANZ-PH:

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
what do they all do?

Rich

I thought I covered that pretty well???

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
what do they all do?

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Gentlemen,

I think Rich is making that classic mistake of looking at what is visible on the surface, forgetting that there are a lot of other things that make a hunting camp tick.

The simple fact of setting up a safari compnay, with all that entails of obtaining permits and licenses, buying equipment - tents, trucks, supplies. Transport, maintenance etc. have to be taken into consideration.

Not to forget that all the money invested has to be returned, hopefully with profits.

Otherwise there won't be any safaris to run.

Safaris, especially in places like Tanzania, ARE luxury holidays, no matter how you look at them. And for that you have to pay the price.

I am aware of the costs safari operators incurr, and these are NOT cheap.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
what do they all do?

Rich

Rich,

Mate, they all work their arses off but at jobs that the vast majority of clients don't see or even consider.

Roads, vehicles, toilets, french drains and a zillion other things all have to built and maintained, paths swept, laundry done, supplies and fuel have to be monitored and obtained when necessary, tents have to be monitored and umpteen other things.

No-one lays about in camp and does nothing for very long.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
what do they all do?

Rich

Rich,

Mate, they all work their arses off but at jobs that the vast majority of clients don't see or even consider.

Roads, vehicles, toilets, french drains and a zillion other things all have to built and maintained, paths swept, laundry done, supplies and fuel have to be monitored and obtained when necessary, tents have to be monitored and umpteen other things.

No-one lays about in camp and does nothing for very long.

Steve,

If you are going to give all the jobs a PH does, don't forget the few that get it off with the clients wife or girl-friend

quote:

Originally posted by Gerrypeters375:
Twenty six thousand dollars ($26,000) does seem a lot to this one time hunter for buff (in Zim back in '93) The argument by Mark Young that the great increase is because the "client" is getting a much better chance for some really large buff ("45" to 50" by his post) There were no such buff back in my one time hunt at a much lower price? The fact is that people like Mark Young are selling a dream. Whatever people want to pay for chasing that dream is what matters. (I shot an SCI trophy book buff within the first four days on the ground -and no great amount of phenomenal luck was required either -but that was just me - Mark Young's clients are getting the top posh treatment for hunting buff in Africa -and so maybe $26,000 (US, I presume)is worth their time. Personally I'm with Idaho.

quote:

Originally posted by bakerb:
I guess I'll become known as the resident AR stupid-question-asker. . .

Is there any way to do without all that luxury?

I would LOVE a Masailand hunt concentrating on lion, lesser kudu, and buff, but really don't need the luxury holiday aspects

I'm preparing to leave in 13 days for my 10 day luxury holiday in the New Mexico elk mountains, chasing bulls with bow and arrows, and bivying out under the stars. Just me and one buddy, backpacker tents, backpacker stoves, Mountain House dehydrated meals, and 10 days of baby-wipe-showers/wipe-downs, and crapping behind convenient bushes. We aren't taking anything we can't carry on our backs. Can't hardly wait

Now I realize part of the experience is a classic safari, but can I go without that whole experience? I would go to kill, and while hot showers, cots, and hot meals are nice and would be missed. . . to realize the dream, I would happily sleep in my little backpacker tent, and eat whatever is easiest

Last year my buddy and I spent 6 days backpacked into a CO wilderness area. Hunted elk dawn to dark. Threw up bivy camp with sleeping bags and bivy sacks, boiled water for dehydrated meals, then went to sleep. Didn't even build a fire. The camping experience was far secondary to the actual hunting. And we got lucky and both tagged out. Had a ball

Bake

quote:

Originally posted by ddrhook:
I have spent 32 month in Africa in the last 7 years and it still amazes me that people who have been there once or twice for a 10 or 15 day safari think they know everything about Africa and what it takes to do business there. YES it is a business. and with as much time as I have been there I still know enough to know I don't know enough to try tell people who live and work there how to do there jobs or how many people it takes to do a job as complex as setting up a proper safari business. especially when it comes to what things cost there and the logistics of getting supplies where then need to be when they need to be there. The majority of the pontiffs here need to just sit back relax and learn from the professionals instead of spreading disinformation.

quote:

Originally posted by bakerb:
In response to ddrhook, and for clarification of my above post. . .

I'm just asking, not trying to stir the pot. I actually don't know. I know that many of the things mentioned by the professionals above are gonna be necessary no matter what, just from a logistical standpoint

I've never been to Africa, just busy dreaming. But do I really need someone to wake me up? I'll bring a little battery powered alarm clock. I don't drink coffee or alcohol, so no need to prepare coffee for me, or bar tend. I don't need a waiter, I'll get up and get myself some food or drink if I want it. And the list could go on

I guess my overriding question is, if I just want to hunt, and don't care about a lot of the extras and camp stuff, is it even possible to do that anymore?

Bake