quote:

Originally posted by Opus1: .... Not sure why Ebola has become such a concern. I guess it's got a better PR agent. Poor Malaria gets no respect, but it should...

Probably because Ebola seems to be spread by people (that poor dog in Spain notwithstanding) and Malaria is spread primarily by an insect. Maybe Malaria would get more respect if it was also directly spread by people (other than by a blood transfusion or congenitally) or if more Mosquitos travelled on trans-continental flights?

qpus,
don't know what you are talking about.
FOR THE GENERAL AFRICAN in areas where malaria is endemic the chances of dying from malaria are higher than from ebola, true.

FOR AN INDIVIDUAL in liberia, monrovia, the chances of dying from ebola are immensely higher
There are at least half a dozen drugs for malaria at least

depends on where the disease is concentrated.

In west africa, with or without rx, you die of ebola. In the rest of africa, without rx, u die of malaria at a higher rate. with rx you dont die of malaria. Have had it myself (malaria).

\
lots of medical professionals have been infected?? 8-10 is your idea of lots?? and who knows what their idea of adequate protective gear was in the early stages of the outbreak- or what is being used now in more remote areas...

one in 20 health professionals in get infected. So far 200 hundred health professionals infected.

By January we'll know how bad this is going to get. If they can significantly slow down the geometric spread things will get better. It's pretty amazing that Nigeria got this under control. Maybe there's hope after all.

EBOLA is a 3rd world disease, spread by un-educated individuals and non existant health care facilities. You need to be in direct contact with FACAES ,(Human crap ) blood, sweat. TO CONTRACT THIS DISEASE.

So if you're not going to lick a sick African, your safe. All westerners infected have been actively working in over crowded underfunded W.H.O TENTS.

West Africa is the height of squalor and has MILLIONS of inhabitants mostly very poor but only 5000+ have been infected ?

Europe is closer to west Africa than South Africa , are you concerned to go to Madrid or Paris ? They are 1000+ km closer to the outbreak than Cape town is !

This is a media Hype that is going to KILL AFRICAN TOURISM.

South Africa and Southern Africa have no cases of Ebola and have much better medical facilities than West Africa.

YOU WILL BE COMPLETELY SAFE TO COME TO SOUTH AFRICA.

quote:

So if you're not going to lick a sick African, your safe.

I would be worried about getting on a plane to travel most anywhere in the world right now not just Africa because I don't believe they are either upfront with us or know how this can be transmitted.
Our own government in order to not offend anyone is too stupid to do anything to help keep this from coming here from known areas of this outbreak.
I also doubt the healthcare workers that got infected were walking around licking sick people to see what they taste like.
I hope this ends soon & I really feel sorry for all involved including those in areas where there is no problems that will be effected financially.

Good day, gents:
A few mates who are considering an Africa hunt in 2015 are all talking of waiting another year. The basic consensus is that it is true ebola is 2000 miles away in West Africa, folks travel, fly, walk, drive, etc., all over the continent. And while we have good medical care in the USA the one death in Texas is in everyone's memory. But, the biggest fear seems to be going to the airport after the hunt and being denied access to the flight and having to remain in Africa to seek medical care. To be honest, I've thought of this, too, and may take a hunt in Argentina and/or Australia in 2015. And perhaps spending more time hunting in my home state of Alaska as well as more time in the Lower 48. I guess time will tell…
Thanks for listening.
Cal

The latest official ebola deaths are 4,000 in Liberia. In the USA another case was due to someone infected lying to authorities to get in this country !
So far Gov't actions show they are not at all competant !

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Good day, gents:
A few mates who are considering an Africa hunt in 2015 are all talking of waiting another year. The basic consensus is that it is true ebola is 2000 miles away in West Africa, folks travel, fly, walk, drive, etc., all over the continent. And while we have good medical care in the USA the one death in Texas is in everyone's memory. But, the biggest fear seems to be going to the airport after the hunt and being denied access to the flight and having to remain in Africa to seek medical care. To be honest, I've thought of this, too, and may take a hunt in Argentina and/or Australia in 2015. And perhaps spending more time hunting in my home state of Alaska as well as more time in the Lower 48. I guess time will tell…
Thanks for listening.
Cal

Cal,

Off topic, but you have great hunting in your "backyard." Granted, many species may be had in Texas, but they do come with a price. I spent about 6 weeks in Arizona helping a friend get a business off the ground. With a license, it blew my mind to just pull off the road and hunt public land.

However, I went on a public land deer hunt in Nebraska. Once the fog lifted one morning, I saw so many hunters in blaze orange. Frankly, it was scary.

Back to your post (somewhat), it would be great to see you take an Asiatic buffalo with one of your classic doubles.

A low level health care worker in Dallas has now picked up Ebola while having been in FULL protective gear.

This changes everything.

quote:

Originally posted by leopards valley safaris:
EBOLA is a 3rd world disease, spread by un-educated individuals and non existant health care facilities. You need to be in direct contact with FACAES ,(Human crap ) blood, sweat. TO CONTRACT THIS DISEASE.

So if you're not going to lick a sick African, your safe. All westerners infected have been actively working in over crowded underfunded W.H.O TENTS.

West Africa is the height of squalor and has MILLIONS of inhabitants mostly very poor but only 5000+ have been infected ?

Europe is closer to west Africa than South Africa , are you concerned to go to Madrid or Paris ? They are 1000+ km closer to the outbreak than Cape town is !

This is a media Hype that is going to KILL AFRICAN TOURISM.

South Africa and Southern Africa have no cases of Ebola and have much better medical facilities than West Africa.

YOU WILL BE COMPLETELY SAFE TO COME TO SOUTH AFRICA.

With Ebola now having been transferred to a fully protected healthcare worker in a first world hospital African tourism is going to nose dive I suspect.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
...But, the biggest fear seems to be going to the airport after the hunt and being denied access to the flight and having to remain in Africa to seek medical care. ...

Are you assuming that they would get Ebola during the hunt?

Also, isn't this hypothetical situation what "Global Rescue" is for? I believe that they are contract bound to get you to the US even if no commercial flights are available.

No, I doubt anyone would contract ebola whilst on a hunt, but the possibility exists on the way to, in the airport, travel in the towns, etc. Interesting point on Global Rescue. I wonder if they could take someone out of a country in a situation like ebola? Good point to ponder.
I agree the chance of ebola is small whilst in a hunting country, but the possibility is there.
Cheers,
Cal

Well I am certainly not minimizing the risk, but if someone wants to donate their hunt to East Africa, or RSA. I'll be ready to go in less than a week!

Best Regards to you all,

Chuck

quote:

Originally posted by bwana cecil:

quote:

So if you're not going to lick a sick African, your safe.

I would be worried about getting on a plane to travel most anywhere in the world right now not just Africa because I don't believe they are either upfront with us or know how this can be transmitted.
Our own government in order to not offend anyone is too stupid to do anything to help keep this from coming here from known areas of this outbreak.
I also doubt the healthcare workers that got infected were walking around licking sick people to see what they taste like.
I hope this ends soon & I really feel sorry for all involved including those in areas where there is no problems that will be effected financially.

Cecil, I kid you not --- on the flight back from the recent Pronghorn hunt Joyce and I had separate seats on the Seattle to Anchorage leg and one of the guys sitting next to her was flying back from working in Guinea.

We cannot and should not eliminate all risk. We can manage risk. It seems ludicrous to be willing to jump into a metal tube, hurtle across the ocean, and stand yards in front of a pissed off elephant, but we do it because of what we consider to be a favorable risk/benefit ratio. While currently ebola twitches the risk benefit balance a tiny bit, I do not believe it changes things very much. The risks are more than offset by the benefits I derive from my hunt.
That does not mean I am not watching the situation. I am aware that I might need to re-evaluate my position as this thing develops.

As physicians, we constantly consider risk/benefit. What are the risks and potential benefits of starting a patient on a new medicine, or offering an operation? We try to base our decision on our perception of this ratio, to use judgement.

Judgement, not fear.

This will most definitely have A impact on the hunting industry especially first time clients and the media frenzy will not helped either. However the 2 Dallas cases has now made it A first world problem and I am sure they will get it under control.

quote:

Cecil, I kid you not --- on the flight back from the recent Pronghorn hunt Joyce and I had separate seats on the Seattle to Anchorage leg and one of the guys sitting next to her was flying back from working in Guinea

My heart sank when I read this.

On a recent trip to Windhoek, I sat next to a Nigerian missionary. I didn't ask how he felt but he really didn't look 100%. That was a little over 21 days ago so apparently I survived.

I will try it again in another 20 days. I will hold my breath the whole way. Fingers crossed...

quote:

Originally posted by bwana cecil:

quote:

Cecil, I kid you not --- on the flight back from the recent Pronghorn hunt Joyce and I had separate seats on the Seattle to Anchorage leg and one of the guys sitting next to her was flying back from working in Guinea

My heart sank when I read this.

Cecil,

You met Joyce. You think Ebola would have a chance?

Disclaimer up front: I am not a doctor.

However, I have worked numerous medical exercises with the US Government as a military medic and as part of a security force in several third world countries. Most disease is the result of the locals being nasty animals.

Many health providers (especially religious organizations and non-government organizations/NGO's) "go native" when they are in country. They throw basic sanitation out the window in order to bond with the locals. I remember one country where almost every person tested (1000+ per day) had one or a combination of hepatitis, HIV+ and numerous other STD's. Yet almost every health care worker refused to take basic precautions such as using gloves and many were having intimate relations with the locals!

In one country where refugee camps were set up, the locals were walking diseases and fought over the smallest things. I gave the order that security forces will wear protective gear at all times and will not provide any medical assistance to locals. The NGO's all filed Human Rights violations against me and wandered about the compounds like Sister Teresa unprotected.

My fear is not from the countries with the diseases but of the "do-gooders" that bring it back home due to their carelessness, irresponsibility and desire to be politically (in a liberal sense) correct.

I hope to see everyone healthy and safe in Dallas.

Hi, my son is a former Ranger (3rd Batt) also. I am vehemently against our armed forces doing anything but setting up field hospitals then GTFO. I don't want to see a single soldier come home with Ebola. We should deploy every person in the CDC before asking any soldiers to try and deal with this.

My two cents

There is a lot of uninformed hysterical nonsense being posted about Ebola.

I have noticed that North Americans seem to have embraced this hysteria with gusto.

Please stay home and don't come to Africa. The threat of dehydration, Malaria, Bilharzia and getting T-Boned by a bus on the way to your local airport are clearly insignificant.

Maybe prices will fall for the rest of us.

quote:

Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
This will most definitely have A impact on the hunting industry especially first time clients and the media frenzy will not helped either. However the 2 Dallas cases has now made it A first world problem and I am sure they will get it under control.

You don't know our president to well.

it appears that people using the most stringent ebola contact precautions are getting infected.
second case in dallas.
TIME TO QUARANTINE W AFRICAN FLIGHTS??

Over due IMHO. We can get aid workers in and out on charter flights.

Just a few recent headlines from the UK "Daily Mail."

'Breach of protocol' blamed for Texas nurse's Ebola infection: 'Heroic' woman who treated Thomas Eric Duncan is confirmed to have deadly virus as CDC admits mistakes were made in quarantine.’

‘America on edge over Ebola fears: Sick passenger's flight put on lockdown at LAX and Boston hospital evacuated after man from Liberia showed symptoms of virus.’

'Nobody cares, nobody stopped me': Miami doctor hits out at TSA efforts to contain Ebola after returning from Nigeria with ease despite highlighting her work with sufferers.’

'Six truckloads of items taken from Dallas apartment where Ebola 'patient zero' became ill are incinerated at Texas plant to be buried on Louisiana landfill site.’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/ushome/index.html

Breach of protocol' blamed for Texas nurse's Ebola infection: 'Heroic' woman who treated Thomas Eric Duncan is confirmed to have deadly virus as CDC admits mistakes were made in quarantine.’

was there a breach in protocol? again? or is the disease transmitted in unexpected ways?

quote:

Originally posted by emron:
it appears that people using the most stringent ebola contact precautions are getting infected.
second case in dallas.
TIME TO QUARANTINE W AFRICAN FLIGHTS??

time to quarantine Dallas!!!!

I'm not sayin' it's aliens, but...

quote:

Originally posted by emron:
Breach of protocol' blamed for Texas nurse's Ebola infection: 'Heroic' woman who treated Thomas Eric Duncan is confirmed to have deadly virus as CDC admits mistakes were made in quarantine.’

was there a breach in protocol? again? or is the disease transmitted in unexpected ways?

From what I have read, she took off her protective gear the wrong way.

That is a bit spooky.

Heck, I thought the only way to get it was to lick some sick African, who knew there might be any other way to get ebola?

This is some scary stuff.

I have zero medical experience.

I was held for over 6 hrs at the Macau Ferry Terminal in April 2009 when there was swine flue issues in Mexico and US. The only reason I had a US passport.

The biggest risk in your West Africa hunt may be getting quarantined and stuck in country if the European Airline (mainly Air France) decides to stop flying.

Is it worth all this Ebola BS to go on a West African hunt which is a vacation at the end of the day?

A single case of Ebola in a tourist town like Orlando would cause some serious economic and employment issues in the short run.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by bwana cecil:
Heck, I thought the only way to get it was to lick some sick African, who knew there might be any other way to get ebola?

Or eat monkey sh!t.

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:

From what I have read, she took off her protective gear the wrong way.

With her tongue? Or did she rub her eyes with the suit?

quote:

Originally posted by bwana cecil:
Heck, I thought the only way to get it was to lick some sick African, who knew there might be any other way to get ebola?

That's basically the only route of transmission. Via fluid transmission. That, and touching the corpse of a person who has died of Ebola. The virus doesn't last long when airborne either. You can be in a room with an Ebola victim and if they sneeze and it doesn't land on you, you are basically safe. The virus is that fragile.

The common cold is far more infectious than Ebola.

The common cold is far more infectious than Ebola.

I'd rather have a cold.
But seriously, do any of you gents think ebola will do serious harm to hunts in Africa in 2015? Do you think booked hunts will be cancelled and those ready to book will hold off?
Just curious.
Cheers, mates.
Cal

When I was in Zim a few weeks ago, the outfitter was already telling me that people were canceling.

I get the impression that we're not being told everything that's known about it and that the fundis don't know anywhere near everything about it but if it is as virulent as some parts of the media are suggesting, we'll probably know considerably more within a few weeks or months at the most and bearing in mind we're only in mid October right now, we should see evidence of how things will turn out close to Christmas or so.

Therefore wait until the new year and see how it is then and certainly don't cancel hunts booked for next year or beyond until then at least.