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Yep, I've had to demote four "gentlemen" to the ranks of ignore. | |||
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Stranger, as Curley Bill said in the movie Tombstone, " BYE. " Dave Fulson | |||
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Amazing. There could be no more perfect statement of the point I was trying to make all along. We have decided to judge people now on the basis of their DVDs. Mike | |||
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My apologies. I thought you were 22WRF, but it appears you are Larry Root. Either way you are on ignore. ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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Well, talk about phucking hypocrites. Larry Root, aka pigmaster and all the other handles here now posting under yet ANOTHER NAME (ARE YOU LISTENING MODERATORS???). Lone stranger? And please don't bother to PM me. You ass. USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Larry Root, you can create and post under a multitude of handles, but can't bump your IQ... Always nice to give the dumbest of TROLLS like Larry the microphone, spotlight and stage... only to watch them fall repeatedly. Larry Root, you're without doubt the preeminent douchebag upon every thread you participate on and there's no hiding that blatant fact. To compliment that, you've a very vivid imagination, lie out your beotch hole, and conjure up all sorts of contrived BS, which backfires with uncanny percentages. You're a pyschotic trainwreck and it's always humorous to watch you beotching and moaning/crying the blues. Everything is ALWAYS someone else's fault and the simple reality is, you're a boundless source of gross stupidity, frosted copiously with a marvelous lack of comprehension and unintelligible thought processes and rants fueled with paranoid delusions. Cyber hanky to you, so as to keep the tears of torment out of your keyboard. Wouldn't want you getting shocked and lose the ability to babble in depth about the tragic trevails of your unfulfilled pathetic life. | |||
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Can you clear this up for me and tell me your true feelings? I'm having a hard time reading between the lines. LOL. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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Cal, He meant to say douchenozzle.... Does that help? Jeff | |||
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Mac, you missed my point entirely. Please read it again. Both guys are known publicly by their DVDs and writing, not by spending inordinate amounts of time in their company really getting to know them privately. Yet we judge them here based on those public personas without real knowledge. My post was not about the character of either man but rather the hypocrisy with which we judge them which leads to worship or vilification on these pages. Mac, in this context, look beyond the focus on the individual person, Boddington or Sullivan. Rather, look at how one man, who has a generally positive public persona, is only allowed to be spoken about in terms of positive attributes when a negative issue has obviously been raised, even by his own admission. On the other hand, one man who has a generally negative public persona, is only allowed to be spoken about in terms of negative attributes when positive support is plentiful by the guys who have actually hunted with him and spent time in his company. Anyone who breaks with this protocol and offers a counter position is chastised! Just as in the Sullivan threads, anyone who made statements of looking beyond the man himself and actually looking at evidence surrounding the issues being discussed were immediately ganged up on. In the case of Col. Boddington, he himself has stated that there IS or at least WAS a question about the Banteng hunt. It's not a fictional issue that didn't happen. Now he may very well be innocent of any and all wrongdoing, which I've stated from the beginning, is probably the reality. Talking about the issue, which is a matter of public record and the motivation behind Craig starting this very thread, is not a prohibited topic, except among the hero worshipers. Just as with Sullivan, it is only a prohibited topic among the zealots to mention that everyone who has first hand experience of hunting with Mark have nothing but words of support for the man. For the guys stating that they are now putting certain people on ignore or will no longer view those mens' comments with the same validity, I say you are making the point exactly. The reason you previously viewed these guys as valued contributors is that they don't go along to get along. They are independent thinkers who look at a situation critically and bring something to the table other than group-think. They have often provided insight beyond the top layer of the topic at hand, thereby fleshing out a discussion. And now that the topic at hand turns to Col. Boddington, who is a very likable guy in terms of his public persona, you've chosen to dismiss any further contributions. Guess what? You guys made the very same comments about putting certain people on ignore or dismissing further opinions when we were discussing Sullivan and they had more to offer than the Political Correct view point! | |||
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Mike lets discuss this judging people on DVDs and articles and books along with interviews with both people in question here! My first question to you is, is it not true that everyone here was judging Mark and Boddington on the same medium? My second question is why is it that opinions are formed by two people on the same medium it is OK for those who agree with you, and bogus if they disagree with you? Let’s look a little closer at this case for a moment! The so-called hypocrisy in believing one way on one, and another way on the other. It is only hypocrisy if it disagrees with you! The comparison between the two different threads are, IMO, far different, and not the same at all. With the Boddington thread we are discussing accusations made by someone posted in private E-mails making unsubstantiated charges about one outfitter by a competitor! Again, why Boddingtons name was brought into that at all is beyond me. It makes little difference who was hunting, it is the responsibility of the outfitter to know where he is conducting a hunt, not the client. Wouldn’t you agree? Then the fund raising you seem so angry about was initiated by someone else also while CB was away hunting, or did I read that wrong? Now to your main objection to my post above! The judging of a person’s character by his books, and his DVDs and seminars is based on the content of those things, by the words spoken and the things seen there. It is true we are judging that way on both. In the case of CB I’ve never seen him do anything or write anything in those films or articles that made statements of poor sportsmanship in forty years I’ve followed him! You are correct that may not tell the whole story but it says a lot IMO. Now let’s talk about the criticism in the Mark Sullivan thread which you say is the same. The criticism of Mark is also based on his DVDs, books, and conversations with him at shows, and articles printed in hunting magazines containing interviews with Mark. When you stop there they seem the same. However in this case the opinion of him is based on his own words, in person, in interviews, and his words in his films, and the actions we see for ourselves in his films, then those actions and words defended by Mark himself. Why is it hypocrisy to judge him from what we see, and hear and read , and not do the same with boddington? IMO there is no comparison between the two to make the two criticisms equal. One is a he said she said,concering others the other is out of the defendant’s own mouth, in both films and in his writings. Those words and actions are what his dissenters find to be more than a little narcissistic in Mark. In the final analysis, one doesn’t have to know a person long or read his own words and witness his actions on film to spot things that go a little against the grain. The same goes for folks posting here with some honey drips from their lips while that hide a dagger behind their back, and others say it the way they believe it, and let the chips fall where they may. I see absolutely nothing hypocritical believing one way about one person and different about another and stating the difference! Then I keep reading the word “IGNORE” , and IMO, that is the act of a coward, because they only IGNORE those who disagree with them, and kiss the ass of those who do agree! Do we all vote a president into the most powerful office in the world by what we see on TV, and read in the paper? Do we have to know these people personally to form an opinion of their character? I await your learned reply, as I’m sure you will say what you think which is your right, but it seems I don't have the same right here! ..................................................................USA  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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Yep. Talks like a duck, walks like a duck, acts like 22WRF.... or Carmelo | |||
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It could be that shit happened and someone appears to be down and out.That does not mean that people should behave like vultures.I think I will order a book by Boddington.If someone could just tell me which is his best book. | |||
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Mac, I do not think I can materially improve on Todd's statement. I do see a parallel here, however, to your last comment about how we select our president. To steal a phrase from Rush Limbaugh, I think part of the problem in both instances is "low information voters", people who form judgments of persons based on superficial public perceptions. In both instances, doing so is shallow and we are worse off in both instances as a result. Mike | |||
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What a train reck.....   More hunting and less gossip...... Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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Gabby Johnson is Right!!!!! Less acting liker a bunch of old chicks at the beauty shop and more killing shit! Double Rifles, This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as clumsy or random as bolt rifle. An elegant weapon for a more civilized age. DRSS Chapuis 9.3x74R NRA Life Member | |||
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Todd, and Mike, I appreciate both your replies, However I am compelled to disagree with both your take on hypocrisy being the result of stating one's opinion the character of two very different people based of the same medium when there is no other way to form that opinion! As far as putting anyone on IGNORE in regard to Todd's statement: "Guess what? You guys made the very same comments about putting certain people on ignore or dismissing further opinions when we were discussing Sullivan and they had more to offer than the political correct view point!" My reply to that statement is, I have never put anyone on IGNORE, and have never threatened to put anyone on ignore, and further there is nobody on the internet that is less POLITICALLY CORRECT than me! Being in my 77th year of life I get less politically correct by the day, and with every thread I read here on the internet! ..........................................................................................This thread is a lost cause in my opinion! BYE  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Hey mate here is my response it seems a bit late as the topic seems to have died off, please give it a read and check it over. Let me know what you think and advise if I should elaborate or exclude anything before you post it, if you think its ok throw it into the mix. All I know is Greg Penicott must have a silver tongue as I cant imagine how has kept boddington onside even after parks and all this bullshit?? Thanks Karl The facts about Hunting Banteng in Australia. The only wild population of Banteng in Australia occurs in the Cobourg/Murgenella region Most of this region is national park and is controlled by Parks and Wildlife (equivalent to fish and game) the area outside the park is an aboriginal reservation and is controlled by the Northern Land Council similar to Native American Reservations in the US(I think). Gurig Gunak Balu (Cobourg National Park) is co managed federally controlled national park, decisions within the park are made by board that is made up of government and traditional owners. As with any government unit contracts are issued via a tender. A contract will be advertised for tender and after they are selected they must comply too all pre requites before operational permits are issued. The Park is a peninsular totals around 4600km2 with its eastern boundary running into Arnhem land, this is a 97000km2 aboriginal reservation controlled by the traditional owners in conjunction with the Northern Land Council. It is well known that Banteng have migrated from the park but their range is fairly limited. I have never seen sign on the roads or from the air much further than the Cobourg turn off, there may be the odd one but they are widely distributed and certainly not a huntable population much further than that. It seems they are pretty much tied to the Cobourg/Mugenella region. To run commercial activities i.e. safari hunts in an aboriginal controlled area the safari operator must obtain an operational agreement in accordance with section 19 Aboriginal Land Rights Act (1976). This is done by having a meeting with traditional owners and surrounding clan group’s areas. The traditional owners and surrounding clans must make an “informed decision” with majority consent, before the Land Use agreement will be issued. To hold these meeting is an expensive process as clan groups can be quite large; for example Muran has 14 traditional owners who would make the decision in company of the joining clan groups (at least 4 other groups). No one single Clan member can authorize commercial activities. In approximately 2009 the commercial operators contracts (PDAHS and Brenton Hurt) in the park expired and new contracts went out for tender. In 2010 no hunting was conducted in the park. After the tender applications were awarded he park was split into 3 concessions, which corresponded to the three traditional clan groups in the park. One area was one by the owners of seven sprit bay resorts this is the area that Matt graham uses. One area to Benton hurt that never used it for commercial hunting The 3rd was adjoined the park boundary was awarded to Solomon Cooper who has until this point has not executed the agreement, I was at one point partners with Solomon but never executed the contract. He then became partners with Greg P under the name of Australian Muran Banteng hunting and that contract is still not yet executed at the time this was written. The park concessions are all accessible by gravel road that splits the park from one end to the other. There is a campground within the park with boat ramps and access to multiple points within the park as well as a pearling farm. So the road access in the park is good however there is no access to Seven Spirit bay. These roads were utilized by the previous operators in the park to hunt the Banteng. Banteng has spread outside the park over the years and there is a good number immediately outside the park but they have not ventured more than and estimated 50ks form the park. I have flown and driven in and out of this frequently over the years and I have seen little or no sign further than the Murganella region and if they are there it is certainly not a huntable population. Kevin Gleeson from Mary River Safaris has a private heard behind wire at his station south of Darwin. Swim creek purchased 6 Banteng in 2012 which consisted of 1 young bull and 5 cows I think they are all juveniles but certainly no trophy bulls. Both of these would be considered estate animals, and are the only Banteng I am aware of. The area that a joins the park on the eastern boarder is Part of the Muran clans estate; and for the last 5 years has been under an exclusive section 19 land use agreement to Goodhand Outback Experience. After this area the surrounding 97000 square klms is known as Arnhem Land, a huge aboriginal reservation made up of thousands of different Clan Groups. Each clan group that is identified by the Land Council owns all of the animals, plants resources in that area. Entering into aboriginal land with out a permit constitutes an offence, shooting or taking a firearm on aboriginal lands constitute separate offences under both the land rights act and the firearms act. So what Im getting at is NO Banteng exist outside this area, and if they were hunted inside one of these areas GP would have to have either an operational agreement from Parks which he did not (see email from Jailee Wilson) or a permit for Muran Land which is impossible as this is my area and you can see I hold a permit for. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6 February 2013 9:12:08 AM ACST Hi Peter You are correct my email of 29 October 2012 as per below advises the Board’s resolution to grant a safari hunting concession on Garig to AMBS. I wish to clarify that even though the Board has provided permission for the operation, prior to actually being able to conduct any hunts there is an operational agreement along with permits that are required to be signed off on and issued. The agreement is still with our legal unit so it along with the permits have not been issued so at this stage AMBS are not able to conduct any hunts in the park. Regards Jailee Wilson I Executive Officer Parks and Wildlife Commission 2nd Floor Goyder Bldg, Palmerston, PO Box 496 Palmerston NT 0831 t...(08) 8999 4431 I f...(08) 8999 4558 I e… jailee.wilson@nt.gov.au P Please consider the environment before printing this email. I have had a response back from Greg Pennicott who advises himself and Solomon conducted hunts one outside the park on Muran country and another in July 2012 at Swim Creek. I have forwarded his email onto the NLC so they can take this matter further as I am not sure what their rules are but I would assume if somebody already holds a concession for an area I wouldn't imagine somebody else can come in etc. I will keep you informed of what transpires. Many thanks Jailee Wilson I Executive Officer Parks and Wildlife Commission 2nd Floor Goyder Bldg, Palmerston, PO Box 496 Palmerston NT 0831 t...(08) 8999 4431 I f...(08) 8999 4558 I e… jailee.wilson@nt.gov.au Please consider the environment before printing this email. Good Afternoon, Attached are your approved work permits.. Can you please sign and return a copy back to our Jabiru Office. Thanks Tracey Fairman Administration / Permits Officer Northern Land Council West Arnhem Region PO Box 18, Jabiru NT 0886 Ph: 08 8938 3001 Fax: 08 8979 2650 Email: tracey.fairman@nlc.org.au How this started Jan 2012 I was alerted to the fact Banteng hunt had taken place some one had seen it on a screen in Houston. I rang around to find out what I could, based on my knowledge of the areas and the outfitter involved I came to the hunt certainly raised red flags and should be brought to the attention of the authorities for further investigation. Know although my feelings were that this hunt was probably illegal Iwas a concern because of the high profile the clients involved. I do not know Boddington or his wife and understand the repercussions of a false accusation so I decided to have a mutual friend contact Boddington to let him know of my concerns about the legalities of this hunt. A few days later my friend said he had heard from CB and it was all good and nothing to worry about. I then contacted the relevant authorities Jailee Wilson from the Cobourg board and Garret smith the NLC lawyer who handles Section 19 Land Use agreements for the relevant area. As you’ve seen in the previous emails that were posted here. The subject is not dead in the water with the authorities. Jailee Wilson only concern is the park and has no jurisdiction outside the Park. Greg P reply to Jailee about hunting in the park stated that the hunts were conducted outside the park in Muran land in company of Solomon Cooper (Aboriginal Traditional Owner). As per the email below: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4 February 2013 10:16:15 AM ACST I have had a response back from Greg Pennicott who advises himself and Solomon conducted hunts one outside the park on Muran country and another in July 2012 at Swim Creek. I have forwarded his email onto the NLC so they can take this matter further as I am not sure what their rules are but I would assume if somebody already holds a concession for an area I wouldn't imagine somebody else can come in etc. I will keep you informed of what transpires. Many thanks Jailee Wilson I Executive Officer Parks and Wildlife Commission 2nd Floor Goyder Bldg, Palmerston, PO Box 496 Palmerston NT 0831 t...(08) 8999 4431 I f...(08) 8999 4558 I e… jailee.wilson@nt.gov.au Please consider the environment before printing this email. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hunting on Muran land has been under an exclusive Section 19 Land Use Agreement to Goodhand Outback Experience Since 2009 and at no time in 2012 did Greg P have a permit from myself or the NLC to hunt in that area. On the 8th of March Joane Christophersen, the regional director for western Arnhem Land asked me to Forward information in relation to the hunts as the Lawyer who was dealing with this has gone on long service leave. Although not the most efficient organization I know they will get to the bottom of this as it has come to the attention of the traditional owners. I tried to contact Joane on Monday to get an update but she is at the Full Council meeting and will not be in the office until the Middle of next week. Unlike most operators I live and have lived in the Northern Territory all my life, outfitting, hunting DVDs and TV shows is all I do for a living. I have my own concessions and was one of the first operators to execute a Section 19 land Use agreement in Western Arnhem Land. I’m not the new kid on the block trying to make a name for him self!! All we have done is report what looks to be a suspect hunt to the relevant authorities, nothing devious or malicious yet people accuse us of trying to damage CB’s credibility. I did not bring it to this forum, nor did I prompt, provoke or ask anyone to post any of this information here. Im by no means the judge and jury but I have been called out here for asking the question, a question that all outfitters should ask if they suspect a client has been lied to by an unscrupulous outfitter. I feel CB is the victim here and this fiasco damages hunting in Australia across the board but it is still something that has to be dealt with. I have proven my credentials, shown all of my relevant permits and tried to give you an unbiased understanding of what is going on here. I hope for CBs sake that Greg can provide the same. | |||
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I will have to get my office to post a picture of Karl's permits. I can't get it to work from my I pad. | |||
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I think Craig made a very wise decision to leave the trophies in Australia... | |||
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Sounds complicated. This thread makes my head hurt. STAY IN THE FIGHT! | |||
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Gentlemen: The entire point of my posts is that this is not some made up Internet BS. Again, that does not mean he is guilty. | |||
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Also, please read carefully the last sentence in the next to the last paragraph. | |||
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Then I cannot understand the need to also request that the Buff trophies not be shipped.
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Am I reading this correctly. Hunt conducted by Greg P with Solomon, Traditional Owner in his area of land (Muran) which was at that time under permit to Karl Goodhand ? Muran being an area outside the National Park ? Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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The portion about conducting hunts in an area permitted to another is correct. I have Karl's permits. Just don't know how to post them from an I pad. Hardly outfitter jealously gentlemen. | |||
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 ______________________ Hunting: I'd kill to participate. | |||
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This about a hunt in Australia (This is an African Forum). It would appear that all parties appear to acknowledge Boddington is not in the mix. "It is not about Boddington"??? How much traction do you think this thread would have recieved on the Australian hunting forum under the topic (Pennicot vs. Karl)?? Seems Boddington may be being used as a catalyst to exercise visibility into this matter by a few domestic personal hunters friendly to Karl ?? on this forum. Do you really think many people care about a issue between a few guides in Australia?? They can work it out in court. CB, your name is just being used to garner attention to this issue. A catalyst so to speak. Appears to be working... EZ | |||
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Far from it. Pennicotts email reply to J.Wilson[Parks & Wildlife]...reveals he admits to conducting a hunting on Aboriginal Muran clan estate land. ...which apparently he had no permits/official NLC permission to do. | |||
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Yes, but by bringing Solomon into the mix, after reading Karl's posted information, it clouds the whole thing even more. For all we know, Greg P could have been told something else as well. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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Boddington was acting on the direction of his commanding officer. After a lengthy official investigation he was not punished. I think it is fair to call his part in the incident was trivial. I have no problem with the fact that you commented on the incident, but the way in which you did it was chickenshit. Honestly I thought better of you than that. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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Words dont really mean much. ONe either has valid written[contract]permission from the Muran clan/NLC, like Karl has, or permission from the exclusive clan/NLC approved permit to conduct hunt holder[Karl],.. or you don't.
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Boddington started this thread. Ask him why? | |||
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Trax I'm not trying to justify anything, just pointing out how murky this has got. Not taking sides, I know how things up there are with the NLC and T/O's (Traditional Owners). Also, you said "Words dont really mean much. ONe either has valid written[contract?]permission from the Muran clan, or permission from the exclusive clan approved permit to hunt holder,.. or you don't." which goes against what Karl said in that he had a contract. So IF someone did give Greg P permission, well, ................. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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There gentlemen is what my problem has been with this thread all along. I simply couldn't understand why Craig's name was brought into this at all. The responsibility for all permits, and the conducting of a hunt in the proper property falls on the outfitter. Still I'm not saying there was a violation, but if there was it is not the fault of any client! IMO the bringing Boddington's name out here seemed and still seems a little "GOTCHA"!!! to me. with that little bit of information, I'm out of here! .........................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Mac I agree, well said. TRAX What is with the "Drinking Coffee" symbol ? Are you referring to the fact that SOLOMON is listed on his web site page ? Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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As I understand it, Boddington traveled with Pennicott & the hunters to the specific region where the alleged Banteng hunt violation took place. CB could help verify who was or was not there, hence he is a potential witness,- as are the Heli-Pilots. Thus indirectly,those guys are involved in the matter,-not necessarily responsible for the alleged illegal hunt. | |||
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At this point I would not hunt with Greg until I knew more about what actually happened, but I would not hunt with Karl regardless of what happened. Not because he reported a possible violation, which I believe is the correct action to take, but rather because he reported it and then saw fit to gloat about it to prospective clients before anything was proven and apparently use the emails as his marketing material. ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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Trax I am pretty sure you need a permit to enter Arhnemland so everybody who enters should be on the permit. Well, it was when I have been in. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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