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Very interesting thread, especially for those who, as we age and spend out time at desk jobs, get increasingly out of shape. As Saeed said, there is a place for out of shape hunters too.

Whenever this topic comes up, I think of the fellows who hunted the year before me in Zambia back in the 80s. One was Bill Jordan, the famous pistoleer, then in his 70s, long in the tooth and accompanied by his elderly girlfriend, both by that time deaf as posts and unaware that everyone in camp could hear their sweet nothings to one another.

Another was an elderly gentleman who was accompanied by his personal physician and oxygen tanks. I think he came in his private plane. Fortunately, he could afford it. Both Jordan and the geezer were doing what they loved, hunting in Africa, despite being in poor physical condition. While the PHs gossiped about them around the fire at night, I heard nothing but respect in what they said about them.

quote:
Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
So, just exactly how many on here believe that hunting license sales and safari bookings hould be based solely on how fast a person can run a marathon or how much they can bench press. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Norman Solberg
International lawyer back in the US after 25 years and, having met a few of the bad guys and governments here and around the world, now focusing on private trusts that protect wealth from them. NRA Life Member for 50 years, NRA Endowment Member from 2014, NRA Patron from 2016.
 
Posts: 554 | Location: Sandia Mountains, NM | Registered: 05 January 2011Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by surestrike:
quote:
The fact that you do all of that, and run 10K's in under 65 minutes is truly awesome. Anyone who really knows about muscular development, knows that developing strength/muscle to the degree which you have, plus running those distances is a rare combination. Running, just as intense weight lifting is a highly an-aerobic activity. Prolonged an-aerobic activity is extremely detrimental to muscular development, and the fact that you are blessed with genetics to do both, is truly rare. Good for you man!!!


Arron,

That is what this is all about..

http://crossfit.com/

I started this about 3 years ago and am 40 lbs lighter, worlds stronger and exponentially more fit. I am running a +/- 6 minute mile (for the first one) just did a 5k in 25:20 and am also dead lifting in the high 300's back squatting just at 300 lbs ETC ETC..

Give it a try you won't be disappointed. I can't think of a better workout program for a hunter or any type of outdoors activity. It sure as heck works well for lots and lots of our special forces soldiers.

I am in my mid 40's and am in better shape now than when I was in my 20's and I was a competitive rugby player back then.


Surestrike - Thanks man, I'm gonna check this out, never seen/heard of it before.

I do have the P90X program, and its pretty intense, but I can NEVER find 12 straight weeks to stick to the whole program without being gone for a few weeks. Once again, dedication is mandatory as you know.

Somehow I gotta get back to the yester years of dedication/discipline, period! Tell me, do you also train in MMA disciplines? There's an MMA gym right across the street from my gym (Planet Fitness) and I've thought lately about stopping in to see what's the deal. What's your opinion?


Aaron Neilson
Global Hunting Resources
303-619-2872: Cell
globalhunts@aol.com
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Posts: 4888 | Location: Boise, Idaho | Registered: 05 March 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Hizzie:
quote:
Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
quote:
Originally posted by Shof:
quote:
Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
quote:
Originally posted by Shof:
And then there's people like me. I'm now 54, 5'9", 210 lbs., and have a hard time following a squirrel dog through the Tennessee hills.

When I was 49, I was a professional firefighter/emt, had a physical every year, did better in the physical agility tests required by the F.D. than many 15 years my junior, had great blood pressure, low cholesterol and was in "great shape." That same year, I had three heart attacks!

Now, I'm 30 lbs. heavier, but still trying to get out hunting every chance I get. But, I'm not ready to dig a hole and crawl in.

Would I look good on TV, gasping and wheezing? No! But do I enjoy every minute in the woods? YOU BET!!!


Let me guess...you are now a disabled firefighter, right?


Yup, officially disabled since 2006.

The cardiologist figures that stress and genetics did me in. My mother died of an anurism at age 56 and my father of a massive heart attack at age 64. So I figured I'd better stay in fairly decent shape if I wanted to live longer than my folks.

I guess surviving three heart attacks that being in fairly decent shape did help somewhat. That and recognizing the signs of a heart attack...


How did I guess? I have a hard time understanding why we taxpayers have to foot the bill for something that has nothing to do with service as a firefighter.

A pretty famous outdoor writer pal of mine who is an MD said the number of police officers and firefighters on disability is stunning.


You might understand if you ever walked a beat or drug a hose into a burning building. The shift work and hours were bad but the things that I saw and can never unsee have changed me on the inside. I cannot say it was for the better. The last I looked at the statistics a Police Officer was killed in the Line of Duty every 54hrs. A Police Officer commits suicide every 20hrs. The rates of divorce and alcohol/drug abuse are ghastly as well.

Aaron - Thank you for the compliments. I am still a young man at 35. I would not consider myself gifted genetically, just very hard working. My condition at the time of my accident actually was a major factor in why I was not injured far worse.


I served in the Army. I am quite sure the stress of serving in the military (try 6 months in submarine) is far greater, esp today, yet you don't get medically retired just because you have high blood pressure or you get fat.

Like many in the private sector, I have also worked shift work. Big deal.

I have no problem paying someone injured in the line of duty. But to go on the public dole because of stress? Give me a break. There are plenty of physically stressful jobs in the public sector that don't allow for the kinds of early retirement that police and firefighters get. Take a hunting guide for example; humping meat in a pack for years is debilitating, but they don't get squat. The system of public retirement is broken.

One last thing: in the opinion of my MD pal, he said a large number of people "game" the system - like it is almost a right to retire on disability. He told me he estimates 90 percent of police officers retire early on a disability pension.


Don't Ever Book a Hunt with Jeff Blair
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Posts: 7580 | Location: Arizona and off grid in CO | Registered: 28 July 2004Reply With Quote
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Here is the one statement that keeps rearing its head, "everyone should try to be in the best shape that they can achieve".

I think everyone goes along with that concept.

The problem is being in the best shape one can be in, varies from one individual to the next.

When people are young and in good health it is really easy to point out the faults in others.

The beauty of reality is that accidents happen, medical problems arise, the aging process continues, and our bodies degenerate.

That does not mean our desire to hunt deminishes, it means our ability to hunt, changes.

Don't hunters, as a group have enough adversity facing us, without creating further dividing lines over something as trivial as whether we are in someone's perceived idea of being in shape to be hunting.


Even the rocks don't last forever.



 
Posts: 31014 | Location: Olney, Texas | Registered: 27 March 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
I served in the Army. I am quite sure the stress of serving in the military (try 6 months in submarine) is far greater, esp today, yet you don't get medically retired just because you have high blood pressure or you get fat.

Like many in the private sector, I have also worked shift work. Big deal.

I have no problem paying someone injured in the line of duty. But to go on the public dole because of stress? Give me a break. There are plenty of physically stressful jobs in the public sector that don't allow for the kinds of early retirement that police and firefighters get. Take a hunting guide for example; humping meat in a pack for years is debilitating, but they don't get squat. The system of public retirement is broken.

One last thing: in the opinion of my MD pal, he said a large number of people "game" the system - like it is almost a right to retire on disability. He told me he estimates 90 percent of police officers retire early on a disability pension.


No, you don' get medically retired just because you get high blood pressure or get fat. I'm talking THREE heart attacks. Not a little chest pain, but three major heart attacks that should have killed me. I thank God that I'm still here, but my disability isn't something that is minor. I suffer chest pain and shortness of breath anywhere between 3 & 5 times a week where I have to take nitro tablets to relieve the pain. It's an inoperable condition that is only likely to get worse as I age.

Being a firefighter or cop isn't like doing shift work, and it's kind of like serving in the military for your entire career.

I (and my cardiologist) figure my disability to be job related and a line of duty injury. As I stated before, the doctor figured that I would never have had my "problem" had I chosen a different career. But I didn't.

And it isn't just the physical stress, I cited that example due to back injuries being common among cops and hose jockeys. Although, there are many people that have to lift as much as our guys might, they don't have to do it NOW or someone's going to get hurt. A hunting guide might have to pack meat out, but he can take his time, with the weight balanced on a pack frame. Now, let's see that guide lift twice that amount, at 3:00 in the morning, while the weight is wedged between the toilet and the wall and screaming in agony every time he tries to move it. Like I said, there's mental stress.

How about having someone ring a bell day or night (you'll never know when) and you'll have to drop what you're doing, or wake up out of a sound sleep, jump into 40 pounds of gear and run a marathon? That's what I did for 20 years.

If your MD pal estimates that 90 percent of the police officers in his area retire early on disability, then either there's something wrong with their system, or he's hopelessly in error. I was the first to go out on disability in close to 40 years. And even then, I didn't want to go. It's just that I couldn't be counted as a complete person on a crew and couldn't be depended on when lives were on the line.

And as much as I didn't want to, I had to agree with the assessment.

So now, I still suffer chest pain and shortness of breath, nothing can be done about it. So I take it easy when I must, do what I can and hope to live as long a life as God let's me. So any day I wake up, I've just set a new personal best for most consequtive days lived.

Try living like that for a while and let me know how you like it....
 
Posts: 816 | Location: Whitlock, TN | Registered: 23 March 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by shootaway:
I think that when you are out of shape your mind works better.I remmember once being way overweight and smoking alot of cigarettes and during that time I was really on the ball with some things.When you are in very good shape you tend to think nothing can go wrong and do things for nothing.

are you serious or is this some kind of Canadian joke Americans can't understand. nobody can be stupid enough to believe that conditioning( good or bad) affects mental acuity so i must assume this is a joke.


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Posts: 13590 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 28 October 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Here is the one statement that keeps rearing its head, "everyone should try to be in the best shape that they can achieve".

I think everyone goes along with that concept.

The problem is being in the best shape one can be in, varies from one individual to the next.

When people are young and in good health it is really easy to point out the faults in others.

The beauty of reality is that accidents happen, medical problems arise, the aging process continues, and our bodies degenerate.

That does not mean our desire to hunt deminishes, it means our ability to hunt, changes.

Don't hunters, as a group have enough adversity facing us, without creating further dividing lines over something as trivial as whether we are in someone's perceived idea of being in shape to be hunting.


Crazyhorse, that post is 100% spot on! When I was 35, I could boast of similar stats as Hizzie. I was a gym rat and loved physical fitness. But now at age 50 after 7 disc ruptures in the lower back, 5 surgeries have resulted in significant paralysis below the knee in my left leg due to nerve damage at the root. The foot has that "pins and needles" feeling of being asleep with zero reflex response. Been that way for just over 7 years now.

The biggest limitation it causes for me is side hilling when on a mountain hunt, especially when the left foot is downhill. I compensate by wearing technical climbing boots when Elk hunting inorder to provide some stability to the ankle. I don't know if I could pull off a sheep or goat hunt. But I told my wife I want to try, after all, what would be a better motivating factor than to know you had a Bighorn Sheep hunt to prepare for. Got one picked out but haven't made the plunge just yet. If I go on that hunt, I'll be in the absolute best shape possible, but realistically, I won't be ready for the Tour De France. Cool
 
Posts: 8533 | Registered: 09 January 2011Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Shof:
quote:
Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
I served in the Army. I am quite sure the stress of serving in the military (try 6 months in submarine) is far greater, esp today, yet you don't get medically retired just because you have high blood pressure or you get fat.

Like many in the private sector, I have also worked shift work. Big deal.

I have no problem paying someone injured in the line of duty. But to go on the public dole because of stress? Give me a break. There are plenty of physically stressful jobs in the public sector that don't allow for the kinds of early retirement that police and firefighters get. Take a hunting guide for example; humping meat in a pack for years is debilitating, but they don't get squat. The system of public retirement is broken.

One last thing: in the opinion of my MD pal, he said a large number of people "game" the system - like it is almost a right to retire on disability. He told me he estimates 90 percent of police officers retire early on a disability pension.


No, you don' get medically retired just because you get high blood pressure or get fat. I'm talking THREE heart attacks. Not a little chest pain, but three major heart attacks that should have killed me. I thank God that I'm still here, but my disability isn't something that is minor. I suffer chest pain and shortness of breath anywhere between 3 & 5 times a week where I have to take nitro tablets to relieve the pain. It's an inoperable condition that is only likely to get worse as I age.

Being a firefighter or cop isn't like doing shift work, and it's kind of like serving in the military for your entire career.

I (and my cardiologist) figure my disability to be job related and a line of duty injury. As I stated before, the doctor figured that I would never have had my "problem" had I chosen a different career. But I didn't.

And it isn't just the physical stress, I cited that example due to back injuries being common among cops and hose jockeys. Although, there are many people that have to lift as much as our guys might, they don't have to do it NOW or someone's going to get hurt. A hunting guide might have to pack meat out, but he can take his time, with the weight balanced on a pack frame. Now, let's see that guide lift twice that amount, at 3:00 in the morning, while the weight is wedged between the toilet and the wall and screaming in agony every time he tries to move it. Like I said, there's mental stress.

How about having someone ring a bell day or night (you'll never know when) and you'll have to drop what you're doing, or wake up out of a sound sleep, jump into 40 pounds of gear and run a marathon? That's what I did for 20 years.

If your MD pal estimates that 90 percent of the police officers in his area retire early on disability, then either there's something wrong with their system, or he's hopelessly in error. I was the first to go out on disability in close to 40 years. And even then, I didn't want to go. It's just that I couldn't be counted as a complete person on a crew and couldn't be depended on when lives were on the line.

And as much as I didn't want to, I had to agree with the assessment.

So now, I still suffer chest pain and shortness of breath, nothing can be done about it. So I take it easy when I must, do what I can and hope to live as long a life as God let's me. So any day I wake up, I've just set a new personal best for most consequtive days lived.

Try living like that for a while and let me know how you like it....


Shoh:

Here is the point: you would have had these problems with any number of jobs. But since you were a firefighter, we have to foot the bill. You pointed out in your first post heart disease runs in your family.

Heart attacks that are caused by working long hours in an oil refinery do not result in a disability. It is my observation many paper industry workers suffer from high rates of cancer. But what do they get? Nothing.

In the private sector, if you can't do your job because of health issues, tough luck. In fact, your propensity to get laid off increases with health issues. Why should it be any different with public sector jobs?


Don't Ever Book a Hunt with Jeff Blair
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Posts: 7580 | Location: Arizona and off grid in CO | Registered: 28 July 2004Reply With Quote
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It's really simple actually.

If your fit enough to have sex and drink alcohol then you are fit enough to get a job ... and hunt.

If you croak in the field then your time is up. On a paid hunt if you are not fit or you are disabled, it is your responsibility as the client to tell their PH so they can adapt the hunt to suit your abilitys.
 
Posts: 1433 | Location: Australia | Registered: 21 March 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
[QUOTE]

I served in the Army. I am quite sure the stress of serving in the military (try 6 months in submarine) is far greater, esp today, yet you don't get medically retired just because you have high blood pressure or you get fat.

Like many in the private sector, I have also worked shift work. Big deal.

I have no problem paying someone injured in the line of duty. But to go on the public dole because of stress? Give me a break. There are plenty of physically stressful jobs in the public sector that don't allow for the kinds of early retirement that police and firefighters get. Take a hunting guide for example; humping meat in a pack for years is debilitating, but they don't get squat. The system of public retirement is broken.

One last thing: in the opinion of my MD pal, he said a large number of people "game" the system - like it is almost a right to retire on disability. He told me he estimates 90 percent of police officers retire early on a disability pension.


Thank you for your service. I cannot belittle your contribution to my freedom.

How many murder scenes have you been to? How many violent domestics where the still alive victim looked like raw burger and there were kids there? How many awful child neglect cases? Rapes? Child rapes? Riots? Robberies? Assaults? Car Accidents with injuries/fatalities? How many PCP fueled suspects have you fought with? How many Emotionally Disturbered Persons have you fought? Ever faced somebody contemplating "Suicide by Cop"? How many addicts have you watched slowly kill themselves? How many families have you seen torn apart? How often have you dealt with the broken criminal justice system? Seen the failures of Child Protective Services? Seen the failures of Adult Protective Services? How many co-workers funerals have you been to where they were killed for only doing their job? That isn't just physically demanding to deal with. It eats away at part of your soul.

And no it is not just like any other shift work. Mandatory OT at any moment. Rotating shifts and days off. Try working a Midnight shift and then have court ALL day and have to be back to work that evening.

90%? Really? I would love to see those statistics. Are there guys that milk the system? Sure. Cuz nobody milks Medicaid or Social Security. Always gonna be turds out there, in every part of the system.


____________________________________________

"If a man can't trust himself to carry a loaded rifle out of camp without risk of shooting somebody, then he has no business ever handling a rifle at all and should take up golf or tennis instead." John Taylor

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Ruger African 223
 
Posts: 336 | Location: Houston, Texas | Registered: 29 March 2010Reply With Quote
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Somehow I gotta get back to the yester years of dedication/discipline, period! Tell me, do you also train in MMA disciplines? There's an MMA gym right across the street from my gym (Planet Fitness) and I've thought lately about stopping in to see what's the deal. What's your opinion?


Arron,

Yes I do. It was actually the MMA stuff that got me into the Cross Fit. I train and teach Krav Maga. We also do MMA style fighting at the gym. It's a great workout no doubt. My major issue with the MMA stuff is that I was running out of gas pretty quick and then I'd get creamed. I needed something to get me to the level were I could stay strong and not totally gas out in the first several minutes of a fight, easier said than done!

Cross Fit and a major diet change are what put me at the level of fitness I needed to be able to hang and start really having fun with the MMA/Krav stuff. I get out on the floor now and can just have fun and play around and set the pace it's a huge difference.

I highly recommend an MMA or a Krav Maga gym most will have a Cross Fit style component to their workout regime.


Here is our gym

http://www.rmkravmaga.com/

We are down in Castle Rock if you ever want to come down and take a class or two just for fun drop me a PM and we'll put it together.



 
Posts: 5210 | Registered: 23 July 2002Reply With Quote
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In response to the opening post.

Yeah, fat people shouldn't hunt. But I don't like bony skinny hunters either. They look malnourished and should eat a bit to put some meat on their bones before going on safari.

Short people too. How dare they hunt!

Overly tall persons. Look like bloody giraffes! Unfair hunting advantage compared to short people. Able to see over bushes. Unless the shorties can look UNDER the bushes. Then they should be banned ...

Hate seeing whitey people hunting too. Don't they realise they should be TANNED before going on safari.

Darkies? Don't they realise they should be carrying a rifle for the client, not shooting it!

Redheads?! Love redhead women but MEN! Too many freckles! No way should they be on safari.

Lets not mention Americans on safari ....


Ha ha ha, what a subject.

Lets face it, irrespective of size, most African hunting is dead easy, mostly flat country hunting, maybe hot and needing to push through thorn bushes. Most hunt in the easy winter months.

If you need to shoot from the bakkie and can't walk a few kilometres away from it, you are too unfit for any sort of hunting.

Imagine an albino, ultra thin, red head, freckled, too tall, American client hunting on a video .... the mind quakes at the thought ...


PS Edited to add: I forgot to say I also hate old people hunting, should have done it when they were very young, and especially dislike young people hunting. How dare they do it, on the basis of someone else's wallet ...

Also I really hate people without a sense of humour hunting, those who do not understand sarcasm, rhetoric, or cynicism ... and especially judgemental persons. Judgemental persons should not be allowed to go on safari either .... I reckon I can still find more biases ...


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Posts: 10138 | Location: Wine Country, Barossa Valley, Australia | Registered: 06 March 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
I highly recommend an MMA or a Krav Maga



Be very careful with this stuff, especially the choke holds if you get into it that far. Even though the ME found no evidence of such, initial indications pointed to a dissection of my friends vertebral artery, likely after trauma suffered while practicing a choke hold called the Bow and Arrow. We have no idea why nothing was found but from 10am to 1pm he was doing MMA, about 1:30 he had the stroke and that was that. Cause of death is still undetermined after a month... I cant even watch the stuff anymore. I have a friend that does Wing Chung/sticky hands etc type stuff and that is very cool, and athletic. I'd try that before getting my head bashed in.
 
Posts: 7828 | Registered: 31 January 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by NitroX:
In response to the opening post.

Yeah, fat people shouldn't hunt. But I don't like bony skinny hunters either. They look malnourished and should eat a bit to put some meat on their bones before going on safari.

Short people too. How dare they hunt!

Overly tall persons. Look like bloody giraffes! Unfair hunting advantage compared to short people. Able to see over bushes. Unless the shorties can look UNDER the bushes. Then they should be banned ...

Hate seeing whitey people hunting too. Don't they realise they should be TANNED before going on safari.

Darkies? Don't they realise they should be carrying a rifle for the client, not shooting it!

Redheads?! Love redhead women but MEN! Too many freckles! No way should they be on safari.

Lets not mention Americans on safari ....


Ha ha ha, what a subject.

Lets face it, irrespective of size, most African hunting is dead easy, mostly flat country hunting, maybe hot and needing to push through thorn bushes. Most hunt in the easy winter months.

If you need to shoot from the bakkie and can't walk a few kilometres away from it, you are too unfit for any sort of hunting.

Imagine an albino, ultra thin, red head, freckled, too tall, American client hunting on a video .... the mind quakes at the thought ...


PS Edited to add: I forgot to say I also hate old people hunting, should have done it when they were very young, and especially dislike young people hunting. How dare they do it, on the basis of someone else's wallet ...

Also I really hate people without a sense of humour hunting, those who do not understand sarcasm, rhetoric, or cynicism ... and especially judgemental persons. Judgemental persons should not be allowed to go on safari either .... I reckon I can still find more biases ...


I seriously need to consider another job as there would be no more clients for me. Cool


Fritz Rabe
Askari Adventures & Fritz Rabe Bow-hunting
 
Posts: 217 | Location: Musina South Africa | Registered: 08 December 2011Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
quote:
Originally posted by surestrike:
quote:
The fact that you do all of that, and run 10K's in under 65 minutes is truly awesome. Anyone who really knows about muscular development, knows that developing strength/muscle to the degree which you have, plus running those distances is a rare combination. Running, just as intense weight lifting is a highly an-aerobic activity. Prolonged an-aerobic activity is extremely detrimental to muscular development, and the fact that you are blessed with genetics to do both, is truly rare. Good for you man!!!


Arron,

That is what this is all about..

http://crossfit.com/

I started this about 3 years ago and am 40 lbs lighter, worlds stronger and exponentially more fit. I am running a +/- 6 minute mile (for the first one) just did a 5k in 25:20 and am also dead lifting in the high 300's back squatting just at 300 lbs ETC ETC..

Give it a try you won't be disappointed. I can't think of a better workout program for a hunter or any type of outdoors activity. It sure as heck works well for lots and lots of our special forces soldiers.

I am in my mid 40's and am in better shape now than when I was in my 20's and I was a competitive rugby player back then.


Surestrike - Thanks man, I'm gonna check this out, never seen/heard of it before.

I do have the P90X program, and its pretty intense, but I can NEVER find 12 straight weeks to stick to the whole program without being gone for a few weeks. Once again, dedication is mandatory as you know.

Somehow I gotta get back to the yester years of dedication/discipline, period! Tell me, do you also train in MMA disciplines? There's an MMA gym right across the street from my gym (Planet Fitness) and I've thought lately about stopping in to see what's the deal. What's your opinion?


Aaron,

I do this with patients on a regular basis. Some get it and some don't. Some want it and some don't. I think you're motivated, so that's at least half the battle. Crossfit is great stuff. I've done it before to train for hunts and it works well. The idea is working out using a functional paradigm rather than a body building paradigm. I currently cross train and when I lift I use the functional paradigm.

I don't know your issue, but for someone with back issues who can handle it I would recommend core strengthening, weight control, squat strengthening (as well as general body), and ergonomic training.

For weight control I'd go get a resting metabolic rate test, so you know what you burn every day. That will help you set your daily caloric intake. Get a calorie counter app for your smart phone and log your calorie intake daily. As far as diet goes PALEO! If you don't know what I mean you need to do some research. Eat more smaller meals and stop eating large meals at the end of the day.

For core strengthening do planks if you can tolerate them. If you can't you probably need to consult a professional for help in getting started with something your body can tolerate. Eventually you want to work into some light weight lifting to build core strength. A progression of body weight squats to weighted back squats to front squats to overhead squats is a good progression over time to accumulate core strength. Following the functional paradigm in general leads to overall body strengthening as well as core strengthening.

Squat strength and compitence is key to lower back health and safety. THE proper form for picking something up is squatting and not bending over. That said if you can't squat how can you pick things up propperly and protect your back?

Know the ergonomics. When you pick something up get as close as you can to it rather than reaching. Establish a good base. Square up to the object. Keep your back flat. Tighten your core. Squat down. Lift with your legs while keeping the object near you. Don't twist to move something to another location. Square up to where you're putting it down.

For cardio I recommend crosstraining as just running, just biking, just X, X, X.........leads to repetitive stress injuries. Cross training does not. I cross train via cross country skiing, swimming, lifting, and hiking.

Brett


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Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter
May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick.
And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too.
May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep.
May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip.
-Seth Peterson
 
Posts: 4551 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 21 February 2008Reply With Quote
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Just a thought for those getting older.......I see a lot of debilitating injuries and problems keeping people from loosing weight and staying in shape as they age. Unfortunately though one of the most dibilitating things in my oppinion is a change in mindset. When I ask a patient in their teens, twenties, and thirties what they do for exercise I ruitinely hear lifting, running, skiing, biking, ect, ect, ect. When I ask patients in their fifties, sixties, and seventies what they do for exercise I way too frequently hear gardening, doing the laundry, cleaning the house, shopping.........really??????

Don't let that change in mindset happen. Exercise is not your job. It's not your chores. Exercise is above and beyond your normal daily activities!

Brett


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Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter
May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick.
And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too.
May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep.
May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip.
-Seth Peterson
 
Posts: 4551 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 21 February 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by just-a-hunter:
I’m not going to say that being overweight isn’t a hindrance because it is. I know, I have been the fat kid my whole life. I am going to say that it shouldn’t matter to anyone but me how fat I am. To say you couldn’t enjoy watching a hunt I done because I am overweight is self-righteous no matter how you look at it. If I am on a show and am aiming at an elephant’s brain, I’m obviously in good enough shape to be there.

I’ve just always judged a person by the size of their heart, not the size of their mid-section. Somebody that persecutes solely on the way somebody looks has no heart. There are also people on this forum that think just because their avatar consists of a hero picture standing bad ass over a fallen elephant, While cool indeed, that only means you have more money than some but in no way consists of what type of person you are. I’ve got news for those types of people, you are not better. For the record, you have no idea how bad I want an avatar consisting of me standing over an elephant.

Life is too short to be so shallow.

Todd


Whatever, fatty.



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Posts: 2897 | Location: Boston, MA | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Rod Donald, Green Party, nEW zEALAND
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Donald

ate healthy, lived healthy and one day the poor bastard keeled over and died.

Man and his plans are a grain of sand on the beach of the grand scheme of things.

nuf said?


To hunt, fish and tell only the truth.
 
Posts: 135 | Location: Brisbane Australia | Registered: 25 February 2009Reply With Quote
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people , i have looked through the post but not read every line -

this year i hunted with an 82 year old who did very well , was he able to run up a mountain - NO was he in incredible shape for his age - YES

i also hunted with a 45 year old who was very overweight and could hardly do 100 yards without stopping for a breather

i hunted with the two gents in the TV show that spurned this thread - exceptionally fit and well practiced -

bottom line is we as PHs , outfitters and booking agents , as professionals need to accomodate a persons physical abilities , shooting abilities limitations -

the common thread that comes out of all of this and actually goes for almost anything in life - the better prepared you are able to be for an experience , the more you will enjoy that experience -

the very fact of what it costs to hunt dangerous game means that many people get to afford it later in life when they are simply not as fit as they may have been in earlier years -

as a Ph , pushing someone beyond what they are capable of does not have a happy ending - you wont part as friends and will annoy each other immensely , on the other hand being an accomodating professional , accepting what you have to work with and helping that person fulfil their dream will result in countless great friendships with people all over the world -


"The greatest threat to our wildlife is the thought that someone else will save it”

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Posts: 1201 | Location: South Africa  | Registered: 04 March 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Imagine an albino, ultra thin, red head, freckled, too tall, American client hunting on a video .... the mind quakes at the thought ...



NitroX

We especially shouldn't allow any Australians to hunt as they drink all the cheap beer, you can't understand a word they say, and they scare off all the white women. Wink



 
Posts: 5210 | Registered: 23 July 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
As far as diet goes PALEO! If you don't know what I mean you need to do some research. Eat more smaller meals and stop eating large meals at the end of the day.


Brett,

Thanks for jumping in here,

Yep that is exactly what I do, Paleo all the way. Cross Fit does not recommend long runs 1 mile at a time is about the max with the occasional 5K (3.2 miles). Distance running actually decreases overall muscle, core fitness and is horrible for joint health.

We also do a lot of rowing for cardio but primarily in sprints. Cross Fit does to do any one thing to excess that's the whole point.



 
Posts: 5210 | Registered: 23 July 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Shukaree:
Rod Donald, Green Party, nEW zEALAND
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Donald

ate healthy, lived healthy and one day the poor bastard keeled over and died.

Man and his plans are a grain of sand on the beach of the grand scheme of things.

nuf said?


The inherent suggestion in the post above is why bother, you cannot control the situation anyway, so just take what comes. We can all find examples of someone who was fit and their number came up and that was it (remember Jim Fixx). But that is no excuse for ignoring your health. There are far more examples of folks that did the latter that had their number come up much sooner than it needed to. I think that mentality is taking the lazy way out. The stakes in the game of life are pretty high and will play the game using every advantage that I can get.


Mike
 
Posts: 21839 | Registered: 03 January 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Hizzie:
quote:
Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
[QUOTE]

I served in the Army. I am quite sure the stress of serving in the military (try 6 months in submarine) is far greater, esp today, yet you don't get medically retired just because you have high blood pressure or you get fat.

Like many in the private sector, I have also worked shift work. Big deal.

I have no problem paying someone injured in the line of duty. But to go on the public dole because of stress? Give me a break. There are plenty of physically stressful jobs in the public sector that don't allow for the kinds of early retirement that police and firefighters get. Take a hunting guide for example; humping meat in a pack for years is debilitating, but they don't get squat. The system of public retirement is broken.

One last thing: in the opinion of my MD pal, he said a large number of people "game" the system - like it is almost a right to retire on disability. He told me he estimates 90 percent of police officers retire early on a disability pension.


Thank you for your service. I cannot belittle your contribution to my freedom.

How many murder scenes have you been to? How many violent domestics where the still alive victim looked like raw burger and there were kids there? How many awful child neglect cases? Rapes? Child rapes? Riots? Robberies? Assaults? Car Accidents with injuries/fatalities? How many PCP fueled suspects have you fought with? How many Emotionally Disturbered Persons have you fought? Ever faced somebody contemplating "Suicide by Cop"? How many addicts have you watched slowly kill themselves? How many families have you seen torn apart? How often have you dealt with the broken criminal justice system? Seen the failures of Child Protective Services? Seen the failures of Adult Protective Services? How many co-workers funerals have you been to where they were killed for only doing their job? That isn't just physically demanding to deal with. It eats away at part of your soul.

And no it is not just like any other shift work. Mandatory OT at any moment. Rotating shifts and days off. Try working a Midnight shift and then have court ALL day and have to be back to work that evening.

90%? Really? I would love to see those statistics. Are there guys that milk the system? Sure. Cuz nobody milks Medicaid or Social Security. Always gonna be turds out there, in every part of the system.


Hizzie:

I am not arguing you see some terrible shit. But why do I have to foot the bill because you are "stressed out?" There is no other job in America that lets you retire on disability like LEOs and FFs.

In the case of Shoh, he got fat and had three heart attacks. Why am I responsible to pay his retirement for the rest of my life? You sound like because you have a tough job, you are entitled to punch out whenever it gets "too hard." Jeez, what if every taxpayer did that?

There is SS and Medicare abuse. And it is now getting at least a little attention. But your post is reflective of the problem: you feel entitled to it because others do it.

I don't have any statistics on disability retirement; I am only telling you what he said. The conversation resulted from an idea I had to write about the medical dangers of exposing your self to too much recoil. He declined, stating he actually wrote about once and got pummeled by cops wanting him to testify at their disability hearings. Really? Retirement from the dangers of recoil?

Taxpayers are getting really tired of struggling to pay for their own retirement and seeing public servants retire at 49.


Don't Ever Book a Hunt with Jeff Blair
http://forums.accuratereloadin...821061151#2821061151

 
Posts: 7580 | Location: Arizona and off grid in CO | Registered: 28 July 2004Reply With Quote
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[/QUOTE]
NitroX
We especially shouldn't allow any Australians to hunt as they drink all the cheap beer, you can't understand a word they say, and they scare off all the white women. Wink[/QUOTE]

yuck jumping
 
Posts: 2731 | Registered: 23 August 2010Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by surestrike:
quote:
As far as diet goes PALEO! If you don't know what I mean you need to do some research. Eat more smaller meals and stop eating large meals at the end of the day.


Brett,

Thanks for jumping in here,

Yep that is exactly what I do, Paleo all the way. Cross Fit does not recommend long runs 1 mile at a time is about the max with the occasional 5K (3.2 miles). Distance running actually decreases overall muscle, core fitness and is horrible for joint health.

We also do a lot of rowing for cardio but primarily in sprints. Cross Fit does to do any one thing to excess that's the whole point.


I have a friend who just hit 60 and runs 100 mile races. He has no joint pain. I run 4 miles and Ms AZW typically runs 8; neither of us have joint problems and we are 52/53. It is my observation that most people with joint problems are overweight and pounding their joints when they do run.

How many thin people have joint problems? I know of only one in my circle of friends who are athletes.

I even have bad arthritis - but not in my knees. I run because it is the best way to stay physically fit with the least amount of time. Swimming might be better, but I hate swallowing water.

Oh, BTW, we typically eat between 8 and 9 pm. But that is really the only major meal we eat. Like I said, we are 150 and 116 lbs respectively. Far better to run 4 miles at 6 pm and eat at 9 than eat at 6 and do no exercise.


Don't Ever Book a Hunt with Jeff Blair
http://forums.accuratereloadin...821061151#2821061151

 
Posts: 7580 | Location: Arizona and off grid in CO | Registered: 28 July 2004Reply With Quote
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No AAW, I didn't get fat and have three heart attacks. At the time, I was almost 40 pounds lighter and in pretty darned good shape. THEN I had the three heart attacks. The medication I'm forced to take, along with recurring chest pain and shortness of breath caused by the heart attacks make it difficult to exercise sufficiently to lose weight.

You attack me like this is something I chose to do deliberately. Believe me, I'd much rather have a healthy heart, to be able to work, to exercise when I want to, to be able to go through a day without worrying about if I have my nitro with me. I don't want to collapse in a chair, gasping for breath while a 300 lb. gorilla sits on my chest. I want to be able to walk for miles, to drag a deer, to hunt high country again. But none of this will happen for me any longer.

Because I gave most of my adult life to the service of my community... And if you don't understand that, or my situation, I feel sorry for you....
 
Posts: 816 | Location: Whitlock, TN | Registered: 23 March 2009Reply With Quote
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Jerry Huffaker
State, National and World Champion Taxidermist



 
Posts: 2017 | Registered: 27 February 2002Reply With Quote
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Gentlemen, I would suggest we have a round table on this subject in the AR room at the DSC. The appointed time for this round table will be 2:30 PM on Friday January 6, 2012. For the more serious attendees please bing a fully stuffed goose down pillow for the combative stage of the affair. There will be NO doubles or big bores allowed in the room. Maybe we could have a sign up list for the participants.
 
Posts: 5338 | Location: Bedford, Pa. USA | Registered: 23 February 2002Reply With Quote
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Moderate exercise is good. All things can be taken to extreme. Some guys worship their bodies, tell you how many push-ups and sit-ups they do (always in the hundreds), and feel compelled to tell you how grrrreat their sex life is, but rarely do they mention a wife and/or kids. Sad that. Marriage ain't for everyone, I know; and some folks should not reproduce, granted. It's the narcissism I don't like to be around.

Do what you can. Hunt how you want. Enjoy what you can of life.
 
Posts: 1278 | Location: Texas Hill Country | Registered: 31 May 2007Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Gentlemen, I would suggest we have a round table on this subject in the AR room at the DSC. The appointed time for this round table will be 2:30 PM on Friday January 6, 2012. For the more serious attendees please bing a fully stuffed goose down pillow for the combative stage of the affair. There will be NO doubles or big bores allowed in the room. Maybe we could have a sign up list for the participants.


Will there be chips and dip and maybe some cake or pie? Big Grin


Mike
 
Posts: 21839 | Registered: 03 January 2006Reply With Quote
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Of course, like the doctor said "watch your weight" how else if it ain't in front of you. tu2 Big Grin
 
Posts: 5338 | Location: Bedford, Pa. USA | Registered: 23 February 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Shof:
No AAW, I didn't get fat and have three heart attacks. At the time, I was almost 40 pounds lighter and in pretty darned good shape. THEN I had the three heart attacks. The medication I'm forced to take, along with recurring chest pain and shortness of breath caused by the heart attacks make it difficult to exercise sufficiently to lose weight.

You attack me like this is something I chose to do deliberately. Believe me, I'd much rather have a healthy heart, to be able to work, to exercise when I want to, to be able to go through a day without worrying about if I have my nitro with me. I don't want to collapse in a chair, gasping for breath while a 300 lb. gorilla sits on my chest. I want to be able to walk for miles, to drag a deer, to hunt high country again. But none of this will happen for me any longer.

Because I gave most of my adult life to the service of my community... And if you don't understand that, or my situation, I feel sorry for you....


Shoh:

Okay, fine. You were not fat. But you did admit your family has a history of heart disease. A doctor claims it is because of your job, but there is no way to prove another job would not have caused heart attacks as well. The point is, the rest of us don't get a disability if we have a heart attack.

I am not attacking you personally; I just disagree with the system. I think it sucks.

Google "How many police officers retire with disability." See the links. There aren't many positive results. You even get lawyers who specialize in cases; one brags about a 75% win rate (which I will admit makes that 90% figure seem unrealistic, so I will concede that based on my internet search). Many links describe LEOs going on to take other physically demanding jobs after getting a disability.

I have absolutely no problem with someone injured in the line of duty getting a disability pension. But for a sore wrist because of firing a handgun too much?

Put it this way: a private sector guy suffering a heart attack is never going to win a worker's comp case. Good thing; my rates are high enough already. And so are my taxes.


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Posts: 7580 | Location: Arizona and off grid in CO | Registered: 28 July 2004Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by Jerry Huffaker:


That is why I never snicker when I see someone obese trying to run or ride a bike. You can lose the weight if you exercise and stop eating. Air has zero calories.


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Posts: 7580 | Location: Arizona and off grid in CO | Registered: 28 July 2004Reply With Quote
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TE LAwrence had a good diet. Eat ONLY when hungry and only enough to quell the hunger and drink only water.
 
Posts: 7828 | Registered: 31 January 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:
Just a thought for those getting older .......I see a lot of debilitating injuries and problems keeping people from loosing weight and staying in shape as they age. Unfortunately though one of the most dibilitating things in my oppinion is a change in mindset. When I ask a patient in their teens, twenties, and thirties what they do for exercise I ruitinely hear lifting, running, skiing, biking, ect, ect, ect. When I ask patients in their fifties, sixties, and seventies what they do for exercise I way too frequently hear gardening, doing the laundry, cleaning the house, shopping.........really??????

Don't let that change in mindset happen. Exercise is not your job. It's not your chores. Exercise is above and beyond your normal daily activities!

Brett


Awful glad you didn't mention my name in there. Wink


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2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012
DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191
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Posts: 7625 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 05 February 2008Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
quote:
Originally posted by Hizzie:
quote:
Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
[QUOTE]

I served in the Army. I am quite sure the stress of serving in the military (try 6 months in submarine) is far greater, esp today, yet you don't get medically retired just because you have high blood pressure or you get fat.

Like many in the private sector, I have also worked shift work. Big deal.

I have no problem paying someone injured in the line of duty. But to go on the public dole because of stress? Give me a break. There are plenty of physically stressful jobs in the public sector that don't allow for the kinds of early retirement that police and firefighters get. Take a hunting guide for example; humping meat in a pack for years is debilitating, but they don't get squat. The system of public retirement is broken.

One last thing: in the opinion of my MD pal, he said a large number of people "game" the system - like it is almost a right to retire on disability. He told me he estimates 90 percent of police officers retire early on a disability pension.


Thank you for your service. I cannot belittle your contribution to my freedom.

How many murder scenes have you been to? How many violent domestics where the still alive victim looked like raw burger and there were kids there? How many awful child neglect cases? Rapes? Child rapes? Riots? Robberies? Assaults? Car Accidents with injuries/fatalities? How many PCP fueled suspects have you fought with? How many Emotionally Disturbered Persons have you fought? Ever faced somebody contemplating "Suicide by Cop"? How many addicts have you watched slowly kill themselves? How many families have you seen torn apart? How often have you dealt with the broken criminal justice system? Seen the failures of Child Protective Services? Seen the failures of Adult Protective Services? How many co-workers funerals have you been to where they were killed for only doing their job? That isn't just physically demanding to deal with. It eats away at part of your soul.

And no it is not just like any other shift work. Mandatory OT at any moment. Rotating shifts and days off. Try working a Midnight shift and then have court ALL day and have to be back to work that evening.

90%? Really? I would love to see those statistics. Are there guys that milk the system? Sure. Cuz nobody milks Medicaid or Social Security. Always gonna be turds out there, in every part of the system.


Hizzie:

I am not arguing you see some terrible shit. But why do I have to foot the bill because you are "stressed out?" There is no other job in America that lets you retire on disability like LEOs and FFs.

In the case of Shoh, he got fat and had three heart attacks. Why am I responsible to pay his retirement for the rest of my life? You sound like because you have a tough job, you are entitled to punch out whenever it gets "too hard." Jeez, what if every taxpayer did that?

There is SS and Medicare abuse. And it is now getting at least a little attention. But your post is reflective of the problem: you feel entitled to it because others do it.

I don't have any statistics on disability retirement; I am only telling you what he said. The conversation resulted from an idea I had to write about the medical dangers of exposing your self to too much recoil. He declined, stating he actually wrote about once and got pummeled by cops wanting him to testify at their disability hearings. Really? Retirement from the dangers of recoil?

Taxpayers are getting really tired of struggling to pay for their own retirement and seeing public servants retire at 49.


You're not arguing with me that I saw some terrible shit but you'll argue that the stress of being in the military was far greater?

I never said anything about retiring over merely being stressed out. However there is a psychological and physical toll for all of the accumulated stress. Your doctor buddy can verify that.

I HAD a tough job. At no point did I suggest that any "Entitlement" existed to punch out when it gets too hard. In Ohio the retirement system was 25-30yrs of service with a minimum age requirement for LE. Some Agencies had their own retirement system. Early Retirement or Medical Disability does not earn you a full pension. We get the shaft from Social Security becuase of our pensions. Why should I be penalized for working in LE even though I had a side job my whole career and paid money into SS? How is that fair?

I certainly don't feel entitled to any fraud or abuse because somebody else is doing it. I have morals. And at no point did I suggest that it was OK.

I had 12yrs OTJ. I could have taken Disability but worked my ass off to get back into fighting shape so that I could safely return and not cost somebody their life.

It is the private citizens raping Social Security taking far more than they paid into the system.

From YOUR posts YOU sound as if YOU are completely anti public unions, anti Police and anti Fire Fighter.



FYI - There is no other job like Police or Fire in America.


____________________________________________

"If a man can't trust himself to carry a loaded rifle out of camp without risk of shooting somebody, then he has no business ever handling a rifle at all and should take up golf or tennis instead." John Taylor

Ruger Alaskan 416
Ruger African 223
 
Posts: 336 | Location: Houston, Texas | Registered: 29 March 2010Reply With Quote
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Jeez Jines you really know how to start a shitstorm! Big Grin You might consider the following threads... "Does the Alimony you pay your Ex-Spouse keep you from hunting Africa?", "Are Guys with Hair better Shots than Bald Guys?" and my favorite "I am hunting DG in Africa with a .22 Colt Woodsman, What load should I use?"!!!


On the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of ten thousand, who on the dawn of victory lay down their weary heads resting, and there resting, died.

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch...
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!
- Rudyard Kipling

Life grows grim without senseless indulgence.
 
Posts: 7568 | Location: Victoria, Texas | Registered: 30 March 2003Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Hizzie:
quote:
Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
[QUOTE]

I served in the Army. I am quite sure the stress of serving in the military (try 6 months in submarine) is far greater, esp today, yet you don't get medically retired just because you have high blood pressure or you get fat.

Like many in the private sector, I have also worked shift work. Big deal.

I have no problem paying someone injured in the line of duty. But to go on the public dole because of stress? Give me a break. There are plenty of physically stressful jobs in the public sector that don't allow for the kinds of early retirement that police and firefighters get. Take a hunting guide for example; humping meat in a pack for years is debilitating, but they don't get squat. The system of public retirement is broken.

One last thing: in the opinion of my MD pal, he said a large number of people "game" the system - like it is almost a right to retire on disability. He told me he estimates 90 percent of police officers retire early on a disability pension.


Thank you for your service. I cannot belittle your contribution to my freedom.

How many murder scenes have you been to? How many violent domestics where the still alive victim looked like raw burger and there were kids there? How many awful child neglect cases? Rapes? Child rapes? Riots? Robberies? Assaults? Car Accidents with injuries/fatalities? How many PCP fueled suspects have you fought with? How many Emotionally Disturbered Persons have you fought? Ever faced somebody contemplating "Suicide by Cop"? How many addicts have you watched slowly kill themselves? How many families have you seen torn apart? How often have you dealt with the broken criminal justice system? Seen the failures of Child Protective Services? Seen the failures of Adult Protective Services? How many co-workers funerals have you been to where they were killed for only doing their job? That isn't just physically demanding to deal with. It eats away at part of your soul.

And no it is not just like any other shift work. Mandatory OT at any moment. Rotating shifts and days off. Try working a Midnight shift and then have court ALL day and have to be back to work that evening.

90%? Really? I would love to see those statistics. Are there guys that milk the system? Sure. Cuz nobody milks Medicaid or Social Security. Always gonna be turds out there, in every part of the system.


I don't begrudge your disability check. But I have to tell you something. My wife at work sees everything you just mentioned and has the pleasure of being spit on regularly, cursed at daily, hair pulled weekly, had a guy walk into the ER with a rifle, put it in his mouth and pull the trigger. She came home that night, and mentioned it in passing over dinner. She sleeps just fine, is 58, and has been doing it for 37 years full time. She's an ER nurse and doesn't not get the pleasure of thrashing someone in retaliation.

My point is. Not disagreeing with your Doc but frankly it's your choice of parents that screwed you, not your job. If you couldn't deal with it, you should have bailed.

Not everyone is cut out to do my wife's job. Most don't last 10 years in an ER. It takes the right mind set. Same with EMT's, Paramedics, Fire fighters, and cops.

I'll repeat, I don't begrudge your disability check, nor would my wife. I'm simply pointing out I have a hard time buying your job gave you heart attacks.


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2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112
2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012
DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191
Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771
Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141
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Posts: 7625 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 05 February 2008Reply With Quote
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I don't care who you are. Its a good thing to be in as good of shape as you can be. Doesn't matter if you are a hunter or if you crochet its good to be in good physical condition.

When you are in shape you feel better, look better, love making is better etc etc.

For those of you that have children, don't you want to be around for their High School and College graduation or to go to their little league games or whatever. When you go on a hunt that you have just forked out enough money to buy a brand new quad cab truck don't you want to be able to walk the distance to catch up to that big tusker, or Dagga Boy or climb the mountain for that 6x6 elk.
I know that even people who look and feel perfectly healthy can have a heart attack and drop dead but at the same time anyone with a smidgen of common sense knows that being fit and healthy dramatically lowers that risk on average..

Im 5'11 and use to weigh about 140 to 145 then when I was in the army I stayed at 160 pounds. I did on average 500 pushups a day before I went in the army, plus the job I had was very physical and I did farm work etc on the weekends some. Obviously I could max the pushups before I even got to Fort Sill. However ive never been a strong runner and im the type of person that has to run regularly to be a good runner.
When I first got in the army although I could do pushups all day but it took me over 18 mins to run two miles, then after a while I got that down to 13mins 10 secs for someone that is mildly asthmatic.

Now after not getting much exercise lately and eating way too much fast food and drinking coca cola like it was water I weigh 210 and instead of running 2 miles in 13 mins it would probably take closer to 130 mins and 2 IV's Not that bad but what im saying is im in the worse shape of my life and it bugs the heck out of me and im going to do something about it.


"Science only goes so far then God takes over."
 
Posts: 3504 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: 07 July 2005Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by Hizzie:
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Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
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Originally posted by Hizzie:
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Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
[QUOTE]

I served in the Army. I am quite sure the stress of serving in the military (try 6 months in submarine) is far greater, esp today, yet you don't get medically retired just because you have high blood pressure or you get fat.

Like many in the private sector, I have also worked shift work. Big deal.

I have no problem paying someone injured in the line of duty. But to go on the public dole because of stress? Give me a break. There are plenty of physically stressful jobs in the public sector that don't allow for the kinds of early retirement that police and firefighters get. Take a hunting guide for example; humping meat in a pack for years is debilitating, but they don't get squat. The system of public retirement is broken.

One last thing: in the opinion of my MD pal, he said a large number of people "game" the system - like it is almost a right to retire on disability. He told me he estimates 90 percent of police officers retire early on a disability pension.


Thank you for your service. I cannot belittle your contribution to my freedom.

How many murder scenes have you been to? How many violent domestics where the still alive victim looked like raw burger and there were kids there? How many awful child neglect cases? Rapes? Child rapes? Riots? Robberies? Assaults? Car Accidents with injuries/fatalities? How many PCP fueled suspects have you fought with? How many Emotionally Disturbered Persons have you fought? Ever faced somebody contemplating "Suicide by Cop"? How many addicts have you watched slowly kill themselves? How many families have you seen torn apart? How often have you dealt with the broken criminal justice system? Seen the failures of Child Protective Services? Seen the failures of Adult Protective Services? How many co-workers funerals have you been to where they were killed for only doing their job? That isn't just physically demanding to deal with. It eats away at part of your soul.

And no it is not just like any other shift work. Mandatory OT at any moment. Rotating shifts and days off. Try working a Midnight shift and then have court ALL day and have to be back to work that evening.

90%? Really? I would love to see those statistics. Are there guys that milk the system? Sure. Cuz nobody milks Medicaid or Social Security. Always gonna be turds out there, in every part of the system.


Hizzie:

I am not arguing you see some terrible shit. But why do I have to foot the bill because you are "stressed out?" There is no other job in America that lets you retire on disability like LEOs and FFs.

In the case of Shoh, he got fat and had three heart attacks. Why am I responsible to pay his retirement for the rest of my life? You sound like because you have a tough job, you are entitled to punch out whenever it gets "too hard." Jeez, what if every taxpayer did that?

There is SS and Medicare abuse. And it is now getting at least a little attention. But your post is reflective of the problem: you feel entitled to it because others do it.

I don't have any statistics on disability retirement; I am only telling you what he said. The conversation resulted from an idea I had to write about the medical dangers of exposing your self to too much recoil. He declined, stating he actually wrote about once and got pummeled by cops wanting him to testify at their disability hearings. Really? Retirement from the dangers of recoil?

Taxpayers are getting really tired of struggling to pay for their own retirement and seeing public servants retire at 49.


You're not arguing with me that I saw some terrible shit but you'll argue that the stress of being in the military was far greater?

I never said anything about retiring over merely being stressed out. However there is a psychological and physical toll for all of the accumulated stress. Your doctor buddy can verify that.

I HAD a tough job. At no point did I suggest that any "Entitlement" existed to punch out when it gets too hard. In Ohio the retirement system was 25-30yrs of service with a minimum age requirement for LE. Some Agencies had their own retirement system. Early Retirement or Medical Disability does not earn you a full pension. We get the shaft from Social Security becuase of our pensions. Why should I be penalized for working in LE even though I had a side job my whole career and paid money into SS? How is that fair?

I certainly don't feel entitled to any fraud or abuse because somebody else is doing it. I have morals. And at no point did I suggest that it was OK.

I had 12yrs OTJ. I could have taken Disability but worked my ass off to get back into fighting shape so that I could safely return and not cost somebody their life.

It is the private citizens raping Social Security taking far more than they paid into the system.

From YOUR posts YOU sound as if YOU are completely anti public unions, anti Police and anti Fire Fighter.



FYI - There is no other job like Police or Fire in America.


I am anti public pensions that reward those in the public sector far greater than the private one.

And I will admit I am not a union lover. As an employer, I don't force anyone to work for me. But I do have a soft spot in my heart for union workers who have toiled for big companies their whole lives and then get the shaft when their factories close. But I guess you don't have to worry about that.

What do you mean "side job?" Do you mean you worked another job in addition to being a LEO? What does that say?

Here is another favorite beef: a cop works after hours as a security guard (maybe it helps them "de-stress") but then gets injured on the job. Why is that a public liability? If you get injured working at 7-11 at night but work for Conoco Phillips during the day, COP (funny that is the stock symbol for Conoco) sure doesn't owe you anything. Why is it all the rules favor those on the public payroll?

A few weeks Ms AZW's mom had chest pains. We called 911. The firefighters showed up right away. Totally professional. But why did nine guys show up with two different trucks? They even had time to ask for a tour of my trophy room. But I will say this much for FF: they always treat you like a customer. The cops, not so much. My last exchange with a police officer was watching MsAZW finish a half marathon. Fat guy on a motorcycle tells use to move behind the yellow line. Okay, we did. Then he drives back and tells us to move behind the curb. I say, "Five minutes ago you told us to get behind the yellow line."

His response: "Do you want me to arrest you for civil disobedience?"

That is how well off Republicans like me develop negative attitudes.


Don't Ever Book a Hunt with Jeff Blair
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Posts: 7580 | Location: Arizona and off grid in CO | Registered: 28 July 2004Reply With Quote
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