To avoid the Tracks Across Africa thread becoming a vent for everyone's vitriol, maybe we can take the debate to this thread.

I appreciated Kim's comment. While I agree that everyone has the right to hunt, and I respect and defend their right, I will say that personally I would much prefer to watch a hunt done by a hunter in good physical condition (which does not always equate to looking like a marathon runner) than a hunt done by someone obviously out of shape. We have all watched hunts of someone that is struggling to make a short walk, sweating profusely and obviously wishing that they were diesel stalking instead. I think if you are going to go Africa, you owe it to yourself to be in as good a physical condition as you can. For example, there was a hunt recently on Dangerous Game that featured a former sheriff's deputy that lost his leg in a motorcycle accident. I have all the respect in the world for that fellow, he was in good shape and even with his artificial limb, went on the hunt and did not let that slow him down. Hunters that go to Africa in poor shape are cheating themselves out of a part of the experience.

On my first trip to Africa I was 250 Lbs and felt every step up and down the hills of Namibia. On my second hunt I weighed in at 190 Lbs and felt a lot better humping the hills of the Omay. I certainly enjoyed the physical part of the hunt more on the second trip.

I don't understand why anybody would not want to be in shape. Physical fitness enhances every aspect of your life, generally prolongs life expectancy and increases quality of life in the later years. It is my first passion above all others.

Todd - Looking pretty/handsome and being physically fit are 2 very different things. They are related but not dependent of each other. Out running I have had my ass kicked by overweight grandparents. They were simply in better cardiovascular condition.

Edited for Frostbit's benefit:

5'10", 200lbs and 10%BF. Not that any of that would matter if I couldn't walk up a flight of stairs without being winded.

I think that when you are out of shape your mind works better.I remmember once being way overweight and smoking alot of cigarettes and during that time I was really on the ball with some things.When you are in very good shape you tend to think nothing can go wrong and do things for nothing.

The concept of being concerned how another person looks or what their physical condition is, when it come to hunting, is completely irrelevant.

If guides/outfitters/PH's based their business on the appearance of a potential client, I seriously doubt that they would stay in busines that long.

Not all hunters fit the perfect height/weight/eye color/hair color/MOA shooting ability category

With the arguements about ethics/hunting high fences/type of equipment used/personal concept of what is or is not a trophy, why throw the appearance or physical prowess of the hunter into the mix?

Maybe Saeed can form a new forum topic, Hunting for the Self-Righteous!

I think some overdo the fitness thing. The latest is that 30 minutes a day of some aerobic activity 4-5 days a week is the recommendation.

Personally, I hate to exercise in a meaningless fashion (like cardio or weights) but after my Alaskan hunt last year I realized that if I didn't do something I was limiting myself. I tried to go on walks outdoors carrying a rifle and taking some shots, but I could only do that once a week. The rest was the hated gym.

I lost 30#, with a long ways to go, but just getting out and doing something helps you. Do what you can.

I know that I would not have gotten a number of my trophies this year if I had not done something.

Nevertheless, I still feel that its up to you. If you have fun while weighing in at 350# and smoking 3 packs a day, have at it and have fun.

Just realize it may impact your getting game.

And let's face it- the editors of those shows could make it so you can't tell how far anyone walks, so the comments about how much work is going on on TV is meaningless, and really I could care less what another guy looks like.

I refuse to say about the gals, as it would be likely to hurt me.

crbutler nailed the point of the discussion. Ultimately it is everyone's individual choice, but choices have consequences. Someone in decent shape is more likely to have a hunt without being limited in opportunities than someone that is out of shape. That should be simple enough to understand.

quote:

crbutler nailed the point of the discussion. Ultimately it is everyone's individual choice, but choices have consequences. Someone in decent shape is more likely to have a hunt without being limited in opportunities than someone that is out of shape. That should be simple enough to understand.

That is true and I have no arguement with that. My arguement deals with someone else's estimation of mine or anyone else's level of physical fitness, Based Solely On Outwardly Appearance, and using such criteria to decide who or whom should be seen on a video.

The reality of African hunting is that the young and fit can't afford to go as much as older hunters who have had more time to accumulate the needed wealth. It is also a fact that African hunting is physically less demanding than hunting on just about any other continent. The PHs I have known have all said that the majority of their clients are older and not in the best condition. It is just the way things are and outfitters have to adjust their methods to fit their clients needs.

Perhaps everyone posting an opinion on this thread should put their height, weight, and % of bodyfat at the end of their post. Let's see where the posted stat line up with the opinion posted.

For the record I don't care what you look like. It's your hunt to enjoy or not given any self imposed physical level of fitness.

One other thing....not that anyone cares what an anti or non-hunter may think of our "sport" but I can tell you when I have shown non-hunting friends links to websites and there's a big black maned Lion with a 300+ pound guy in the picture the question is always the same. "How was he able to do that?" The implication to the uninformed is that you must be in shape to do something outdoors, especially in a place like Africa where the commenter has never been.

BIGBORE hit the nail on the head. Great insight into the reality as it exists. But yes, we owe it to ourselves to be in the best shape that time, age, and genetics will allow for. The guy that knows his limitations, acknowledges them to his PH and does the best he can ,is a pleasure when compared to the out of shape guy who demands and expects a 60 pound elephant when he can only walk two miles a day. And there is no shortage of that guy out there.

Being way over weight should not diminish your chances of getting good trophies.Just have those trackers carry you on one of those things they carry people on. They are getting paid for that.The important thing is to make the best of everything.

Height: Too short
Weight: Too heavy
Body Fat: Too much
Looks: Excellent

At my recent 45 yr. high school class reunion I was voted "Most Handsome in my Weight Class"

I'd prefer that everyone had to post a picture of themselves and their current wife before posting any comments about the shape of anyone else. The shape of your wife is a lot more important to the men on this website than any of you with game you have taken.

Frankly, it concerns me just a little that anyone here of the male gender gives a dead rat's ass about how any of the other guy's physique. Go to the nearest gym if you want to look at fit men. You can see a lot more of them than what is shown in hunting pictures; and in person. Sweaty and everything.

Some of you guys crack me up...

Rich

I nominate Dave Fulson and MJ for the AR swimsuit issue...

With me it still goes back to believing that only some stereo-typical Stewart Granger type is all that should be allowed to represent what hunters are supposed to look like, and I think that is wrong thinking.

quote:

Originally posted by BEGNO:
Height: Too short
Weight: Too heavy
Body Fat: Too much
Looks: Excellent

At my recent 45 yr. high school class reunion I was voted "Most Handsome in my Weight Class"

And in the yearbook......"Most likely to be bloodied by a Buffalo".

My favorite picture of the year on here, unfortunately at your expense. I'd have that sucker blown up bigtime.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
With me it still goes back to believing that only some stereo-typical Stewart Granger type is all that should be allowed to represent what hunters are supposed to look like, and I think that is wrong thinking.

It may be, but some folks think it nonetheless. I'd rather be in the best shape that my time, energy and genetics allow. Makes life easier to live for me. Your mileage may vary.

quote:

Originally posted by just-a-hunter:
Just thought I would repulse some by posting a photo of a perspiring fat guy with a tattoo he designed himself out of elk antlers wearing too small of cloths because his bags were lost the first days of his safari having the time of his life with awesome friends. I really hope some of you gag at the sight of me.



I also sincerly hope you have as much fun on your on your next safari as I had on mine..

Todd

Zat you in the middle?

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Fulson:
. . . we owe it to ourselves to be in the best shape that time, age, and genetics will allow for. The guy that knows his limitations, acknowledges them to his PH and does the best he can ,is a pleasure when compared to the out of shape guy who demands and expects a 60 pound elephant when he can only walk two miles a day. And there is no shortage of that guy out there.

Spot on. Fact is that each person's physical ability and conditioning will impact the quality of their hunt. The better shape you are in, the more opportunities you are likely to enjoy. The worse shape you are in, the fewer opportunities you are likely to enjoy. Nothing particularly insightful (or incite-ful) about that observation.

quote:

Spot on. Fact is that each person's physical ability and conditioning will impact the quality of their hunt. The better shape you are in, the more opportunities you are likely to enjoy. The worse shape you are in, the fewer opportunities you are likely to enjoy. Nothing particularly insightful (or incite-ful) about that observation.

Again, a statement I have no trouble with nor disagree with.

However, this whole discussion arose over the visual appearance of a person and not their actual physical shape.

Same as equating a persons shooting ability with their looks.

In my opinion, we do not need stereo-types representing us, but real everyday hunters.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

Spot on. Fact is that each person's physical ability and conditioning will impact the quality of their hunt. The better shape you are in, the more opportunities you are likely to enjoy. The worse shape you are in, the fewer opportunities you are likely to enjoy. Nothing particularly insightful (or incite-ful) about that observation.

Again, a statement I have no trouble with nor disagree with.

However, this whole discussion arose over the visual appearance of a person and not their actual physical shape.

Same as equating a persons shooting ability with their looks.

In my opinion, we do not need stereo-types representing us, but real everyday hunters.

Then it appears that we have no difference in opinion. My comment pertained to watching folks that are obviously out of shape. As noted with the example about the fellow that hunted with a prothestic leg, he was obviously not out of shape or hampered in a material way by his disability (and I admire his heart and dedication). There have been plenty of hunts with hunters that appear overweight who are clearly in good shape too. On the other hand, there have also been plenty of shows where the hunter featured was obviously out of shape and struggling. Just my opinion, but I prefer the former to the latter.

Since I am probably the epitome of the type person that so upsets MJines I have never really given any thought at all about the appearance or physical condition of anyone I've watched on one of these programs. I have never at any time in my life been in what anyone in their right mind would call excellant condition.My mother and father were rather corpulent as I have been all my life. But there can also be other reasons that people are not in the physical condition that some on here feel they should be. I have had arthritis since I was 18 years old which precludes doing some things I might like to do. I am also diabetic which doesn't restrict me very much except to deny many eating pleasures. Even being overweight by any measures all my entire life I managed to serve the military obligation that I had of 6 years. I have also managed to make 8 safari's and that includes 3 elephants. I will admit I wouldn't particularly want to watch me on Television chasing around Africa,huffing and puffing. I tried running after Francolin in Zimbabwe once and it was not a pretty sight as I have NEVER been able to run under any circumstances and in fact most people have a stride such that I don't even keep up at a normal fast walking pace. Even with all these terrible aflictions I still managed to totally enjoy the 8 safari's I was able to do. And I don't think it's anybodies business what condition I'm in if I pay my way and don't disadvantage them.

I have no problem with Kim's statement. I watched the show yesterday; and after reading his post this evening I have to admit that those thoughts crossed my mind when watching.

I think it's a natural response from someone who watches alot of these shows - who can deny there is a large percentage of "clients" that seem unfit and are poor shots. I think it unfair and a "regrettable prejudice" to connect these two traits, but that's what I did.

I also cringe when watching CEOs of firearms or optics companies hunting on shows when it is obvious to any practiced observer that they have spent very little time behind a rifle - makes me wonder if they recenlty bought the company or were just hired by the board. They typically have no problem reading the prepared script about ballistics and the glorius virtues of product, though.

I watch, but would rather not; or better stated, I'd rather be watching someone who knows what they're talking about - like Bill.

And then there's people like me. I'm now 54, 5'9", 210 lbs., and have a hard time following a squirrel dog through the Tennessee hills.

When I was 49, I was a professional firefighter/emt, had a physical every year, did better in the physical agility tests required by the F.D. than many 15 years my junior, had great blood pressure, low cholesterol and was in "great shape." That same year, I had three heart attacks!

Now, I'm 30 lbs. heavier, but still trying to get out hunting every chance I get. But, I'm not ready to dig a hole and crawl in.

Would I look good on TV, gasping and wheezing? No! But do I enjoy every minute in the woods? YOU BET!!!

quote:

Originally posted by BEGNO:
Height: Too short
Weight: Too heavy
Body Fat: Too much
Looks: Excellent

At my recent 45 yr. high school class reunion I was voted "Most Handsome in my Weight Class"

Butch,

I've never met you but I notice from your bloodied picture, you are not 6'4", 200 lbs, with a 32" waist. You probably don't leap from rock to rock carrying your backpack, rifle, and gear with the greatest of ease. I'll bet you can't run down a buffalo or elephant on foot, rifle in hand.

But I'll also bet that if your buffalo hunt had been filmed and presented on TV or DVD, it would have made for some pretty damn interesting and exciting footage watching you stand there and pump lead into that buff while your PH was being attacked, and then going for the ride of your life as well.

I'm sorry you had to go through that and am glad everyone came out OK, but I bet that was one hell of a lot more exciting than watching some gym rat on a hunt. Hey, one of Mark Sullivan's DVD's had a body builder client for over 1/2 of the kills. He wore a tank top the entire time. Why no accolades here for that DVD? "Death by the Ton" I think it was.


Originally posted by Hizzie:

"I don't understand why anybody would not want to be in shape."

Sometimes it is not a matter of choice. It's possible that permanent injury can affect a person's exercise capabilities.

On the Boddington on Buffalo II DVD, Craig stated that a person owes it to himself to be in the best shape possible, whatever that may be due to age, injury, or limitations. That is a statement that I agree with 100%. But it also does not mean each and every person who goes on Safari is going to be able to be ready for the Olympics!

As far as how a hunter appears on DVD or TV, editing can work wonders! There is an old story about John Wayne during the filming of "The Sons of Katie Elder". In the scene where he and Dean Martin are under the bridge engaged in a shootout with the bad guys, he is giving them hell. Running from here to there and diving behind trees all the while shooting and barking orders to the other "brothers". The story is that during the breaks, he was helped into a tent where his IV was plugged in and an oxygen mask strapped on his face. He had already had a lung removed due to cancer at this point. His handlers were very good at concealing any of The Duke's mortal weaknesses, but he had them nonetheless. Interesting how he was so "out of shape" but still made a good movie!

On Buzz's second DVD, he had a client that was injured in a motorcycle wreck. The guy manned up and went on his Ele PAC hunt (still legal back then), including crossing rivers and other obstacles, all while on crutches. For some reason, I've never found that segment less appealing to watch than the other clients on the DVD. The fellow worked hard for his Ele within the limits of his abilities and it was interesting to watch.

All things considered, it is obvious that the better shape a person is in on Safari, the better his personal experience will be. I somehow don't see how that necessarily makes for a better hunting show, especially considering how scenes can be edited. So from that standpoint, I think the comment on the other thread that started this discussion, was inappropriate. Just my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:For example, there was a hunt recently on Dangerous Game that featured a former sheriff's deputy that lost his leg in a motorcycle accident. I have all the respect in the world for that fellow, he was in good shape and even with his artificial limb, went on the hunt and did not let that slow him down. Hunters that go to Africa in poor shape are cheating themselves out of a part of the experience.

Mike, I watched that show with interest since I met that gentleman at Monty's booth last January in Dallas. We spent the better part of an hour discussing safaris. I wouldn't be surprised to see him again this year.

I'm scheduled to go on an elephant hunt in May 2013, and I've promised myself that I will weigh less than the elephant that I shoot. I hope I can keep that promise to myself .......

Dave fulson can't be the pin-up. Don't you guys remember that last week he sprained his ankle?
When I took my hunt this year in Zimbabwe with Chifuti, it was a disaster. Not their fault, it was mine. I had a nasty motorcycle wreck 5 weeks before the trip. Broke 8 ribs, punctured a lung and separated a shoulder, my shooting shoulder. My PH, Clint Edwards, had been informed that I was going to ride the short bus the whole trip. I was very up front with him and said that if he expected too much from me, I would let him know. He took very good care of me. I could keep up everywhere but the sand in the riverbeds. We climbed a few hills, dropped down a few ravines, and killed a nice Buffalo. they will cater to you. Mountains, at my age, 57, are a different story. I live at 7200 feet in the Rockies. THERE IS NO AIR UP HERE! I'm 6'4" and weigh 235. Thats a lot of weight to pack around plus the day pack and a rifle. Know your limitations. Walking in Africa, even all day, is not that stressful.....There is air down there.

Sometimes, being out of shape is not really a choice one has.

Due to some illness for instance.

Being in good physical shape while hunting certainly adds to the enjoyment of the hunt.

But, one can still enjoy hunting even if being out of shape. One will never get as much out of a hunt if he was out if shape instead of being fit.

If a person is out of shape, for whatever reason, wishes to go on safari, that is his choice. And he can decide if what he gets out of it is worth his money.

Personally, I love out of shape hunters. I would never have been able to shoot so many buffalo in Chete if all the hunters who went hunting there shot the buffalo they wanted. I went at the end of the season, and basically cleaned up all the quota

I remember asking Roy how many buffalo can I shoot.

"We will have to hunt buffalo every day to finish all the quota!"

Walter would answer "Good that I brought lots of books to read then while waiting for you mad buffalo hunters then"

"This is great, we don't just have the pleasure of hunting buffalo every day, we get the additional pleasure of being away from Walter too!"

"I will stay in camp and enjoy Rene's company. Much better than having to put up with you two"

Guys I have never felt so crap in my life. About 5 years ago I was diagnosed with Chronic Pancreatitis.(a lifestyle of late nights,lots of fine Scotch and women). I can honestly say that hunting has changed for me in every way. I am not as strong as I used to be or for my age of 37 years. Even my sex life has changed to some degree with me flat on my back most of the time. Most girls enjoy the ride! But seriously this condition has messed my hunting enjoyment a great deal. LOOK AFTER YOUR HEALTH GUYS.

HAPPY HUNTING!!!!!!!!

Mike,

If we could only get outfitters to donate hunts based on a "looks good naked" basis (who cares if they can't run 20 miles) then I'm sure you would see appropriate efforts made by all concerned. I'll even wager that wives will help their hunter husbands to win. I would even run the risk of Shootaway's prediction that I'll get dumber with each pound lost.

Unfortunately, the more money I make the more ass-time I log. A serious injury a few years ago slowed me down for a few years. Things have come around, but cold Canadian winters are much tougher due to a simple slip and subsequent fall.

Been to Africa a handful of times so I speak with some experience. Out of shape hunters on TV give those who have not hunted Africa the wrong impression of how physical an African hunt CAN BE. My two best friends have never been to Africa and both say "I can go when I'm older and fatter because you don't have to be in shape". Generally speaking most African hunts don't require you to be in great shape so there is some truth in that statement and their are tons of videos and TV shows to prove that. Would I rather watch a backpack mountain goat hunt or a 10 day Dall sheep hunt without horses? YES, but it doesn't stop me from watching an overweight, out of shape guy plod after a buffalo.

quote:

At my recent 45 yr. high school class reunion I was voted "Most Handsome in my Weight Class"

Hysterical!

And don't forget to use all the African PH slang at the gym, like Spot On, Make a Plan, incessant use of Excellent, ....

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
And don't forget to use all the African PH slang at the gym, like Spot On, Make a Plan, incessant use of Excellent, ....

You missed a couple Bill " Sort out the affair", and the most infamous of all "NO PROBLEM".

quote:

Originally posted by MJines: Ultimately it is everyone's individual choice, but choices have consequences. Someone in decent shape is more likely to have a hunt without being limited in opportunities than someone that is out of shape. That should be simple enough to understand.

Mike - I think simply your point alone is easy enough to understand and I expect everyone would agree, how can you not? Anytime a hunter is in good physical condition, their limitations are less, period!

For me personally, this is a very interesting topic at the moment, because its something that I am struggling with right now myself. And something that I have seen hundreds of clients over the past 20 yrs of guiding elk/deer/big horn sheep and mtn. goat hunts, deal with too. I cannot tell you how many times we've had hunters that were unsuccessful for one simple reason - they just couldn't get there! I've had hunters quit in the middle of the stalk, I've had hunters that were so SLOW that getting there 3 hrs later just wasn't good enough. I've even had some hunters simply refuse to go from the beginning. Bottom line though, the hunters who were in decent/good physical condition routinely were more successful, and took the biggest trophies.

Personally, I couldn't care less what the dudes on TV or video look like, I just want to see some good hunting/trophies, etc. However, as a guy that took great pride for years in my physical condition and physical ability, I'm down in the dumps at the moment. Prior to 2009 I spent the previous 15 yrs working out 6-7 days a week, watching my diet, and even spent 5 yrs seriously training as an amateur body-builder (5'10" & 205lbs - 4.6%BF) In 2009 I suffered a semi-serious lower back injury, one that seriously cut into my weight lifting activities, along with that, I kept my same appetite, but did not continue to be as limiting with my diet. Couple that with the fact that I will turn 40 next May, and I also was put on medication by my doctor in late 2009 - that she said would most likely make me gain weight (it did, 30lbs) and now I can definitely tell the difference in my physical ability. Which without any question, is a limiting factor in the field, that I have never faced until the past 12-24 months.

The interesting fact is, although I lift weights much less than in the past, I do quite a bit more longer/intense cardio workouts now - than ever before. Sometimes hiking in the mtns close to home 6 - 10 miles a day, 2-3 times per week. Yet, I still can't seem to drop the weight? My doctor tells me, the meds I am on will make weight loss difficult, great!!! Regardless, I've got to come up with a solution, as I dearly love high-mountain elk hunting, and where I hunt, its all on foot, carry it out on your back, tough hunting. I still shot two great bulls on public land this year (CO & WY), busted my ass packing the darn things, but its definitely harder than in yrs past, and I'm afraid if I don't get the weight off, I'm eventually not gonna make it either. I even noticed the difference for the first time this year (Sept) in Africa. When I shot my first buffalo with my new double (in the gut), and Phillip and I literally had to run after the bull for almost an hour, I was very disappointed in how much I was laboring to keep up with his 27yr old - skinny behind! Never really experienced that problem before. Had I been in poor physical condition, there's no doubt we would have lost that bull, and I would have been kicking myself all the way home.

But, I've decided on a new plan, and I have a perfect incentive to get the weight off soon. First off, I hired the nutritionist for the Texas Rangers to create a new diet program for me, which she did. Working out is not really my problem, I still do it all the time (combination of weights/cardio 5-6 days per week) obviously I've got to get back to a more sensible diet plan. Next is implementing the plan/workouts/diet, but that's gonna be a little tough until February, as we are traveling to shows alot in January. But, I am scheduled for a May 10-20, 2012 Brown Bear hunt on the Alaska Peninsula. This will be my 5th spring brown bear hunt, so I know what to expect, and I know how physically demanding a spring bear hunt can be. So, its my goal/intention to drop 30-35lbs by May, and make my hunt more pleasurable, and hopefully give me a better chance for that elusive 10 footer that I have always wanted.

Take it from a guy who's gone the wrong way in the past couple years. Stay in shape, keep the weight off if you can, and exercise regularly. Without question, not doing so does have a negative effect on your hunting abilities.

Good luck guys!!

I sure am thankful to be married to a chubby chaser.