The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Just how "easy" is it to get a cat?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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After seeing the debates here, and reading some of the commentary about the various hunts, I have been wondering how easy it is to get a big cat, either Lion or Leopard? I have seen all this about outfitters with darn near 100% luck with either Leopard or Lion. Heck I booked with 2 of them... I have hunted Leopard twice, with no spots, and Lion once with no joy. Now all of these hunts are "wilderness hunts", and I have yet to even see a male Lion and while I have seen a shootable Leopard (unfortunately when I couldn't hunt him...) I have not gotten one of those either. Am I just that unlucky? How many of you guys had to go back repeatedly to get the big cats? While I enjoyed each experience immensely, is this typical of those of you who have tried to get these beasts? Thanks! | ||
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crbutler, Just out of interest where and whom did you hunt with? If you did not experience any Lion activity during your hunt and did not see a Lion then this sounds odd in itself. Note time of year can also be a factor and cats are much less energetic during the very hot months. If you are in a good area then the success rates should be as high as 80% and you will interact with Lions on a daily basis. Leopard are a bit more tricky and you need to find a PH who knows his stuff and can advertise a high success rate. There are some areas both in Zimababwe and Zambia that I know of that are very prolific and you could probably shoot one in the camp kitchen. However hunting Leopard is considered an art and is one of the more difficult hunts, unless of course you choose dogs. Enough said about that. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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As the other gentleman said. A lot depends upon the area and PH. Although this would apply to most game, the big cats have 9 lives or more so seem to know when something is not right and dont always play along! A lot of hunters also seem to have problems with making the shot or controlling themselves! Perhaps the proximity or the presence of such an animal has something to do with it. | |||
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The Ph's i've asked about leopards all said it's very difficult and demanding. Leopards are damn smart, especially those on former cattle farms which are well trained. Like fairgame said it's an art. Best Regards from germany | |||
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crbutler, Most has been said, I would just stress that area is the first and most important point especially on lion. There simply needs to be a population to hunt one. This is not to take away from Leopard they are a single minded hunt and demand effort and expertise. Point being mostly that leopard can be found and therefore hunted in a variety of areas and countries. | |||
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crbutler, Sorry forgot to answer your question. In short my opinion is "no they are not easy". Lion has become a high dollar hunt and leopard more affordable but by the traditional method of bait and blind has always been challenging. Hounds as mentioned do offer a higher success rate . | |||
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Vaughan got it right about populations. Assuming there's any kind of a decent population in the area you're hunting it all boils down to who you're hunting with and how he gets the cats to bait...... but no matter how good he is or how skilled his hunting methods, if the cat's ain't there in the first place, you won't get one to bait. | |||
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It is always easy when you at the right place at the right time. I have been 15 times and have certainly gone home without a cat even with in a quality area with a good PH. I find cat hunting to be difficult, demanding and often boring. I say this because of the constant driving many miles over bush tracks to check baits. This really wears me out and candidly, all the driving bores the hell out of me. Lions are more & more difficult if you take only a mature male that is no longer in the pride. I went on two 21 days hunts without firing a shot at a lion. I connected in my 3rd trip. Being honest, I would not shoot that cat today. I next time I tried was unscheduled. I shot 3 cattle killers in a single night. My next hunt was lucky and I shot a nice full maned lion while tracking on the first day. I then made three 21 day hunts to Tanzania with some quality PH's in quality areas. In 2 of those 3 hunts, I didn't see a single male lion. In one of those hunts we only saw 4 sets of tracks. I did see some young males in the 3rd trip but I passed and was under no pressure by the PH. Finally, last October was my next try. I got a very nice lion in the SAVE. As far leopards, they can also be difficult. In my first attempt, I never got in a blind. My second attempt resulted in a massive cat the second night. My 3rd & 4th attempts yielded no cat (never got a male on bait on one of those trips). My next attempt yielded a decent leopard in broad daylight on the second sitting. Had I not sneezed the first sitting, i think I may have well got him the first sitting. The following year, I took a truly massive old cat the first afternoon. He was so old, some of his teeth were flat. My final attempt was last October in the SAVE. In spite of lots of baits, we never got a male on bait. I went home with no leopard. There is definitely an art to it. In come places the cats are very educated which makes them really difficult. | |||
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That's really impressive! | |||
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+40 Days after Mr Spots. Never seen a cat !I have been in very good areas but not the best time of year. But im gettin closer...Someday he will make a mistake... | |||
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Four Leopard hunt attempts before closing the deal with Mr. Spots. All enjoyable hunts. Is Leopard hunting "easy"? Not sure this is the right word as it encompasses many factors? Larry Sellers SCI Life Member | |||
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Mr. Dahlgren - I am sorry to hear 40+ days and you have not even seen a cat, honestly that just shouldn't happen. Maybe we need to talk? | |||
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That's bad. Where have you been? I walked into two leopards on my last hunt on a friends farm in RSA but i didn't want to hunt one by chance. | |||
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21 Days in the Save Conservancy and Mahenye and almost 3 weeks at different places in Namibia. | |||
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As to the where/with who: I had hunted Leopard the first time on a 15 day Buffalo and Plains game hunt with Mokore Safaris in the Chewore South concession of Zimbabwe. I was hunting with Hilton Nichols, who is a long time Zim PH, and while Leopard was not my initial goal here, we saw a lot of sign and spent 7 days working on spots. The second time was a 18 day Lion hunt in Zambia's Luangwa valley with Muchinga Adventures, and I had Alister Norton as my PH. We got within 10 yards of lioness and cubs, but not a single male was seen, not even a track. My hunt broke Alister's perfect Lion record. The latest hunt was 15 days primarily for Leopard in the Save conservancy with Mokore Safaris again. Early season, right phase of the moon, planned in advance 2 years to get a plan. Saw little sign and the only cat I saw was a female in the tree. I worked with a good booking agent, and my research indicated these guys were all top notch. | |||
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I also see from Mr. Dahlgren's post I'm not alone here.  | |||
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Vaughan hit the nail on the head IMHO. The more cats, the better your chances, and single minded hunt is the only way to hunt Leopard if that is your primary concern. My last Leopard hunt was A: in the right place, B: held not only lots of Leopard but is managed properly, has LOTS of game Leopards love to dine on (young Warthog, Impala, Bushbuck, Dassie's and the pygmy antelopes) and C: my PH is so single minded about Leopard he has tunnel vision. On two occasions, he wouldn't take away from our baiting schedule (first 2 days I was on the ground) and we passed up two separate Bushbuck that were in the 16 inch range. He advised, "we'll get them later." Well, my partner took his tom the first hour he ever sat in a Leopard blind and I took mine on the sixth evening. We never found another Bushbuck of that caliber the rest of the hunt. That's just hunting. My last client had been Leopard hunting 3 times...no cat. I booked him last May and he took his cat on the first sitting. Mind you they stayed in the blind all night and shot the cat at first light. Sometimes you get the Bear, sometimes the Bear gets you. LDK Gray Ghost Hunting Safaris http://grayghostsafaris.com Phone: 615-860-4333 Email: hunts@grayghostsafaris.com NRA Benefactor DSC Professional Member SCI Member RMEF Life Member NWTF Guardian Life Sponsor NAHC Life Member Rowland Ward - SCI Scorer Took the wife the Eastern Cape for her first hunt: http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6881000262 Hunting in the Stormberg, Winterberg and Hankey Mountains of the Eastern Cape 2018 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4801073142 Hunting the Eastern Cape, RSA May 22nd - June 15th 2007 http://forums.accuratereloadin...=810104007#810104007 16 Days in Zimbabwe: Leopard, plains game, fowl and more: http://forums.accuratereloadin...=212108409#212108409 Natal: Rhino, Croc, Nyala, Bushbuck and more http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6341092311 Recent hunt in the Eastern Cape, August 2010: Pics added http://forums.accuratereloadin...261039941#9261039941 10 days in the Stormberg Mountains http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7781081322 Back in the Stormberg Mountains with friends: May-June 2017 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6001078232 "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading" - Thomas Jefferson Every morning the Zebra wakes up knowing it must outrun the fastest Lion if it wants to stay alive. Every morning the Lion wakes up knowing it must outrun the slowest Zebra or it will starve. It makes no difference if you are a Zebra or a Lion; when the Sun comes up in Africa, you must wake up running...... "If you're being chased by a Lion, you don't have to be faster than the Lion, you just have to be faster than the person next to you." | |||
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I have hunted leopard three times and taken cats the last two times. I agree that it's the area that you pick, the PH and the time of the year. My first hunt was in South Africa, and I had two PH's for the hunt. Didn't even see leopard tracks. Then I got smart and went to Zimbabwe. For me, the successful formula has been the following: Southwestern Zimbabwe, near West Nicholson; End of July-first part of August; and, leopard specialist, PH John Hunt of Georgia Safaris. Here's PH John Hunt and my last cat:  | |||
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Don't automatically dismiss the RSA. Perhaps 7 years ago, I was in the RSA with my kids. I have forgotten the name of the ranch. It was near Hoedspruit. We had shot a bunch of stuff and there was a lot of meat around. I decided to educate my kids a bit. We put up several baits (I think 5) from quarters that had been shot up pretty badly. We didn't even drag. These were put in places that were super easy to get to. All I was trying to do was show them how this was done. The next morning, all of the baits had been hit by leopards except for one that had been hung really close to a river. That bait had been taken by a croc that had come out of the river. I got out of the truck & saw the croc tracks. I couldn't believe it. I wasn't sure of myself and didn't opine that a croc had taken it. I didn't want to look like an idiot. The PH immediately concluded that a croc had taken the bait. I have never seen that before. However, I have seen it once since. | |||
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I have been extremely lucky on the little cat hunting I have done. Hunting with Samaras and Fulvio Gianola as the PH, I saw leopard all three times I sat in a blind. Shot a leopard the third night, after shooting an elephant that morning. Eight days later I shot a lion. For me the bugaboo is big buffalo. Of the six that I have shot, one was maybe right at 40. My last two Tanz hunts I left one on license because I never saw a big one. There is a tremendous amount of luck involved in hunting. In North America, I have had great luck on elk, but not on deer (although I have never hunted deer on a guided hunt). Years ago a guy asked me about hunting elk using a guide. I asked him how disappointed he would be if he didn't get one. His answer: "Very." I told him not to go. As we have often said, you aren't buying the animal; you are buying a chance for the animal. | |||
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I have been hunting since 1982. And every time I go on safari both lion and leopard are on our list of animals. But, despite all our efforts, I only managed to shoot 4 leopards and 5 lions. So yes, they are difficult to get. | |||
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I always find it interesting how cat, esp leopard behaviour changes from area to area and that shows just how clever they are. There's an area in Botswana I've been hunting on and off for about 12 (ish) years and it has more leopards than anywhere else I've ever seen. On average they get one leopard licence every 3 years (we have one for this year BTW) and 3 year ago when we were hunting for one, we had several occasions when we were hunting bait and came across freshly killed impala etc...... backtracking proved that as we'd been stalking the herds, ol' spots had been paralleling us and when the herds baled out, they just stepped in and nailed one as they went past....... now that's what I call clever! Here's the one we took 3 years ago:  and FWIW, here's how I like to hunt 'em: http://www.shakariconnection.c...unting-mr-spots.html | |||
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I know guys that have been 2-4 safaris and not pulled the trigger on Mr. Spots,seen some yes none worthy of a shot. My father- 4th night in the blind- beautiful tom leopard, Myself- 3 hrs. 15 mins in the blind first evening shot 20 mins. before dark(I am quite sure it's my once in a lifetime leopard),beautiful tom.Both mine and my father's were on the same safari in Zim. Sometimes its just good to be lucky. Wesleyt1 | |||
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That my friend would be a good PH, good area and good time of year, and a tad of good luck. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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I'd say in a top area with the right PH, a cat hunt will range from relatively easy (say less than three times sitting in the blind) to seriously challenging. Success is not guaranteed, period. In a bad area with the wrong PH, a cat hunt will range from seriously challenging to virtually impossible. For example, I could guide you on a leopard hunt on my farm in Alabama for the next 100 years and we probably would not get a cat on bait. Moral: Best area + best PH gives you the best chance at a cat, but it still takes some luck. Will J. Parks, III | |||
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You can increase your odds of success by picking a PH that specializes in cats, have him pick the area to hunt and go early in southern Africa. I maean the months of April and May. That is at the end of the rains and prey can be hard for a cat to find then. Hungry cats come to bait quicker and earlier in the day at this time of year. 465H&H | |||
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safari-lawyer: Can I book my next leopard hunt with you in Alabama?  | |||
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UEG: Sure. I actually have a plan. There's a large cat rescue in Gadsden, AL about 45 miles from my farm. We will use a scent drag up Interstate 59 (we will slow down to 55mph), across Sand Mountain, through Lake Guntersville (on the bridge, of course), and right to the base of a bait tree that I've selected. We might get a leopard, a jaguar, a panther, a mtn lion, a lion, or even a tiger if we're lucky. It would be best if we plan your hunt the next time a big cat escapes from the preserve. Thus, I will put you "on call". Be ready to leave on a moment's notice. I'd not book my return travel as it may take as long as the rest of our combined lives to make this happen. Would you like me to begin pre-baiting? Will J. Parks, III | |||
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Only speaking for myself and friends who have hunted them, I would not say they are easy, no cat is easy, but then they are not real difficult if you have a good area and a good PH. Leopards are quite common in some areas of Zim, and you should be able to take one. I shot one once, and I had not even planned to shoot one. When I was in Chete, two leopards were taken, only a day apart. I would say lions are a bit more difficult than leopard. | |||
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safari-lawyer: Better wait to pre-bait until you've got notice of an escape. Let me know the daily rate, the trophy fees, and your lodging accomodations, etc. I suppose that your lovely wife will plan and prepare all meals. (Send pics) If you hear that a circus will be going through your area, then that, combined with the big cat rescue facility, will likely provide us with an excellent chance of multiple trophies! | |||
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How does the moon phase affect leopard hunting? I'm shopping for a leopard hunt in Namibia or Zim. Been told by one PH to hunt the full moon and another told me the new moon phase was best. Both were baited hunts and not with hounds. | |||
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There's definitely "polar opposite" opinions on this one, and they have been discussed here on AR before. I personally believe that the dark of the moon is the best, and I have planned my leopard hunts accordingly. Others will tell you that it doesn't matter or that the full moon is best. All three of my leopard PH's have recommended the dark of the moon. Just my 2 cents worth. | |||
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You guys are hilarious. Thanks for the wit. | |||
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I wouldn't get too bogged down in the moon phases. You hear that all the time down here in Texas; "don't hunt deer during a full moon, they will be feeding at night and sleeping in the daytime", or some say the opposite, they will be more active during a full moon. You can shoot leopards in the daytime or you can shoot them at night in some areas, I have no idea what the moon was doing when I hunted leopards, I think it was dark. | |||
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My choice; dark of the moon. Secondary choice; 10 days either side of the dark of the moon. Leopards have no problem seeing on pitch black nights, neither does game. But it's in the Leopards favor and advantage to stay hidden from game or danger. Bright moonlight will illuminate all things reflective, and it's surmised game and predators see UV reflection (I buy that thought from experience). The very bottom line is: you kill Mr Spots when you kill him, I just prefer my own Mojo working. LDK Gray Ghost Hunting Safaris http://grayghostsafaris.com Phone: 615-860-4333 Email: hunts@grayghostsafaris.com NRA Benefactor DSC Professional Member SCI Member RMEF Life Member NWTF Guardian Life Sponsor NAHC Life Member Rowland Ward - SCI Scorer Took the wife the Eastern Cape for her first hunt: http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6881000262 Hunting in the Stormberg, Winterberg and Hankey Mountains of the Eastern Cape 2018 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4801073142 Hunting the Eastern Cape, RSA May 22nd - June 15th 2007 http://forums.accuratereloadin...=810104007#810104007 16 Days in Zimbabwe: Leopard, plains game, fowl and more: http://forums.accuratereloadin...=212108409#212108409 Natal: Rhino, Croc, Nyala, Bushbuck and more http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6341092311 Recent hunt in the Eastern Cape, August 2010: Pics added http://forums.accuratereloadin...261039941#9261039941 10 days in the Stormberg Mountains http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7781081322 Back in the Stormberg Mountains with friends: May-June 2017 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6001078232 "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading" - Thomas Jefferson Every morning the Zebra wakes up knowing it must outrun the fastest Lion if it wants to stay alive. Every morning the Lion wakes up knowing it must outrun the slowest Zebra or it will starve. It makes no difference if you are a Zebra or a Lion; when the Sun comes up in Africa, you must wake up running...... "If you're being chased by a Lion, you don't have to be faster than the Lion, you just have to be faster than the person next to you." | |||
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 That's damn funny!! Everybody here says the same thing, and quite frankly everybody is right! Priority #1 - Location, location, location Priority #2 - Best time to go to that location, and it can even vary within the same country Priority #3 - Experienced and successful cat hunter/ph Priority #4 - Luck Problem I often see with clients though is they are not always willing to go to the "Actual Best Places", either because they can't afford what is really the best, which I totally understand that, or someone else has told them that XYZ is the best, simply because that guy went there and got one! Buddies often recommend what they know from limited experience, not necessarily what might be the BEST! Quite frankly, some agents are guilty of that too. Not only do you want an experienced PH, but if booking a hunt with an agent, you want him to have diverse experience. Now this might sound biased, and I don't mean it that way, but in my opinion, that's why a GOOD booking agent is really the very best way to go! As an outfitter myself for a long-time now, of course I am gonna believe that my hunts that I offer, are the best. But a really experienced and un-biased agent is going to listen to what you really want, and make a recommendation based on your criteria, not just the ONE hunt he has to sell, in the one area that operates in, as is the case with specific outfitters. I'm not bashing outfitters in anyway, I am just stating what I believe to be true. For example, I have sold a hunt or two for Adam Clements in Masailand for buffalo over the last couple years, but really Mark is the guy to turn to for that. Although I don't want to lose a client, fact is, if a really big buffalo is the client's only goal. Booking a Masailand buffalo hunt with Mark, at the right time of year, is probably your very best bet for the biggest one possible. That's just the facts! As LDK said as well, if getting the cat you want is REALLY the goal, you need to make that the priority, period! Too often guys want the cat, but they want other things too. Sometimes to get those "other things", the area then changes to NOT THE BEST CAT AREA, or timing is sacrificed, etc. Plus, when considering getting one, are you considering just getting one to be the goal, or are you looking at getting a BIG ONE as the goal? Getting a big, full-maned lion, and getting just a decent lion are two different things. Often the difference is the location and the price! Not that both areas can't be equal in success percentages, but they are often not equal in quality of the cats available in the first place. Just getting a leopard, and getting a big leopard, is also two different things, and often the same theory applies. Just ask Fairgame, I'll bet he will agree with this. If I was going to Zambia and the goal was to get a leopard, period. He would tell you to come with him to the Luangwa, but if you want a bit less odds of success, but a shot at killing a much bigger leopard, he'll tell you to come with him to the Kafue. If money was no object, and I wanted the BEST odds on a leopard hunt for the biggest leopard possible, I would book with Brittingham and go to Mt. Kitinbine (spelling), no question about it! If Lion was my goal, and money no object I would go to Lunga Luswishi in the Kafue, and a close second might be the Rungwa or Lukwati game reserves in Tanzania. But unfortunately not all of us have the un-limited budget to go wherever we want, so that too has to be factored in. After spending the past 15 years chasing cats in at least 6 different countries, and having been successful on shooting 15 lion/leopard myself, plus being with 6-8 clients that have shot lion/leopard, I have managed to come to a few conclusions. Leopards are without a doubt, the most difficult overall. Not that they are any smarter than lions, but they are simply more secretive. Lions are bold, even though they are cautious. They often just don't exhibit the same shyness as a leopard. Not always but more as a generalization. I personally have not had near the success on leopard, as I have with lion, even though I was hunting some very good places. But some of that lack of success has been that when I do lion/leopard hunts, I am always more focused on lion. Several times I have passed sitting on big tom leopards, simply because we had lion hitting other baits, and that's where I chose to go first. Well, this is all just my opinion, and what the hell do I know anyway??? | |||
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Period...The End. I have learned one thing about hunting. If taking the animal you are going for is at the top of the list of importance when you book a hunt, then at least 50% of your success is determined before you step on a plane. Education is the key like any field in life. They people with the most information are usually most successful. Here are some lessons I have learned. Don't just look the cheapest hunt when targeting a species. Better to wait until you can make the right choice. Not saying that the most expensive hunt is the best. You just have to have all the facts before making your decision. Great example is lion. You can find cheaper hunts in Zim, or very expensive in Tanz, or in SA (in the past) guaranteed hunts. How do you make a decision on where to go? Depends on what you want and the money you are willing to spend, but here is my thinking. Make a list of your priorities. A) Is taking a lion a higher priority than taking a MGM lion? B) How do I want to hunt the lion (or cat)? Bait, Dogs, tracking in the desert, ect. C) Will I be happy if I get a cat, but there are little other game? Build your own list, but this is a start. For me personally, I am not hung up on taking a MGM Lion. I want an old lion. So that opens up more options. But let's assume my priority was a free range MGM lion. First, I better have deep pockets. Second, I just made my decision. A company like TGT in Tanz. is probably one of a handful on places that I would have that chance. I would spend at least 120k and my chance at a MGM Lion is around 10% or less. Many are happy with that and would still have a successful safari without taking a lion. Research and education will give the inputs that I stated above. For the kind of money we are discussing, I would do lots of research. If taking a cat is the most important, there are areas in Zim that are very good and much more affordable. The Save in my opinion is the best value in Africa for lion. Few more points that went through my head. Through my research, I realized that tracking cats in the desert was not for me. So that eliminated some areas. Nothing wrong with it, I just wanted a more traditional experience. I also realized that looking at the dynamics in an area can be important. An example could be in the Luangwa Valley in Zambia. There is a great area, but the outfitters there all have different polices on the type of lions to take. Understand these differences through your research, get a map a determine which outfitter has each area. How much can other outfitters effect your objectives? Also know the time of year that is best. I like earlier for cats. Less hunters that year. Higher grass is tougher hunting for them too, so they seem to come to bait better. (This is an opinion) As the previous poster stated, area is key, the best areas in any country are going to be more expensive than the poorer areas in the same country. I have found I save money in the long run by booking the best areas. For the record. I came to the conclusion the the Save was going to give me the best chance to meet my objectives for the money I was willing to spend. I am booked in 2011 for 21 days. | |||
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I suspect that some who do not kill their cats have probably sought late season or discounted hunts. To hunt leopard in Zambia in the heat of October and what with all the new born impala you have very little chance. Ever heard the expression fart against the wind? ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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I've spent over 80 days hunting in Africa, with over 70 with Lion as primary desired animal--in the Caprivi, in Western Tanz, in NE Moz, in Moz south of Cahora Bassa, and around Etosha in Namibia . Haven't seen a mature male in that time. Got one nice Tom after he hit a bait several nights running. However, I've always had secondary animals that were also important, and have not gone to the "Best" lion areas. Steve "He wins the most, who honour saves. Success is not the test." Ryan "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Stalin Tanzania 06 Argentina08 Argentina Australia06 Argentina 07 Namibia Arnhemland10 Belize2011 Moz04 Moz 09 | |||
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Aaron posted some huge trophy Lion pics taken in one of his favourite areas in Zambia - see 'What trophy stands out in your memory? and although expensive I know the success rate here on big hairy Lions (in the past three years) is just a touch under 100%. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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