My partner and I have a house in Mexico. We bird hunt during the months between Sept. and Feb. We average a couple of trips a month. This really opens a can of worms for us.

When you are on the AES site filling out your EEI, be sure to turn off pop-up blocker before you try to submit your EEI.

I was having fits trying to complete this process, due to my pop-up blocker being on.

Once I turned off the pop-up blocker, my EEI sailed through and I had my ITN via email within about 5 minutes.


Tim

quote:

Originally posted by peashooter:
My partner and I have a house in Mexico. We bird hunt during the months between Sept. and Feb. We average a couple of trips a month. This really opens a can of worms for us.

My understanding is that shotguns are not covered by this.

What if you are going to use a loaner but have to take ammo with you?

quote:

Originally posted by Rich Elliott:
What if you are going to use a loaner but have to take ammo with you?

Do not pass Go, Do not collect $100.00, and Do not travel with ammo unless you have an ITN for it. See: https://www.ice.gov/cpi/faq

Welcome to "The New World" as envisioned by our Dear Leader, Comrade Obongo.

OMG this is pissing me off

Taking ammunition into an African country without a rifle in the same caliber can cause you some serious problems!

quote:

Originally posted by gunslinger55:
OMG this is pissing me off

Yup. SUCKS ... Big Time! The Regime tried first with assault rifles and then an AR15 ammo ban. Too many people affected by that, so there was a huge push-back. Hunters/Sportsmen are a much smaller class, so the Regime probably figures it is "safe" to continue on with its social-engineering/gun control desires using our little group as its next "target."

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
Taking ammunition into an African country without a rifle in the same caliber can cause you some serious problems!

It's possible in Ethiopia IF you have a permit ahead of time. You would also have(on the same permit) the info on the rifle you are using in that caliber.

Just received this in an email from Shunneson & Wilson Adventures. Not sure if this duplicates or adds to the information above, but someone might find it useful:

http://campaign.r20.constantco...e4-9f1e-d4ae5292c4bc

we need to flood our representatives and senators about this regulatory overreach. This really infringes upon or rights and is totally unnecesary

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Just received this in an email from Shunneson & Wilson Adventures. Not sure if this duplicates or adds to the information above, but someone might find it useful:

http://campaign.r20.constantco...e4-9f1e-d4ae5292c4bc

Nice summary. It should help those who elect to go down that path.

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Vining:
we need to flood our representatives and senators about this regulatory overreach. This really infringes upon or rights and is totally unnecesary

Agreed. Whether they will (or can) do anything remains to be seen. If there ever was an issue that the NRA-DSC-SCI should join forces on, this is it.

I was at the Denver CBP office today and the agents on duty knew nothing about the new policy and said Washington had told them nothing about it. Interesting.....

So.... I went through Ken Wilson's excellent detailed process and came to the line that said
"Don't add "shells" or "bullets" or "cartridges" or ammo." That's what the help line told me."
So how would one only export ammo? There no serial number on cartridges (yet!)and most likely there wouldn't be many (or any) returned because they are used up. This in NUTS!

Use to one would show up at the airlines counter and declare that one had 3 boxes of ammo in the original container. In some cases you would have to prove (show) that you had an import permit and that was it. Oh well.....

I just called Coppersmith (NY office). Was told they are waiting on new forms to come in and they would get in touch when that happens to start the AES filling process.

quote:

Originally posted by hunteratheart:
I just called Coppersmith (NY office). Was told they are waiting on new forms to come in and they would get in touch when that happens to start the AES filling process.

Call Coppersmith's Dallas (Irving), TX office...they did mine 2 weeks ago.

Ask for Cheryl Woodyard.

quote:

Originally posted by Rich Elliott:
So.... I went through Ken Wilson's excellent detailed process and came to the line that said
"Don't add "shells" or "bullets" or "cartridges" or ammo." That's what the help line told me."
So how would one only export ammo? There no serial number on cartridges (yet!)and most likely there wouldn't be many (or any) returned because they are used up. This in NUTS!

Use to one would show up at the airlines counter and declare that one had 3 boxes of ammo in the original container. In some cases you would have to prove (show) that you had an import permit and that was it. Oh well.....

I was told ammo would go on its own commodity line. it has its own code as I explained on my PDF form of the same instructions.

http://www.docdroid.net/xrsx/a...nstructions.pdf.html

I was also told that you do NOT want to enter your company EIN as the USPPI. I believe you want this to be in YOUR NAME, not a company name. I can see possible issues when you are trying to explain to a customs official that your company is the one exporting the firearms not you...

Thanks for posting the pdf of the screen shots of the AES account. However, you suggest that the serial number of the firearm be included in the description of the article to be exported. I wonder if that is necessary, required, or even lawful? If there is the slightest bit of concern that this is a backdoor attempt at Federal gun registration, then disclosing that information would move us a lot closer to that ultimate goal. Secondly, I couldn't find anything in the EO or the relevant regs. that require the "exporter" to supply the serial number of the firearm in order to get the precious ITN. (I am not saying that requirement isn't buried in some other obtuse rule or reg., it's just that I haven't found it.) Thirdly, the disclosure of the serial number in this context may actually be unlawful. A very good argument can be made that the Firearm Owners Protection Act, 18 U.S. Code 926(a)(3), prohibits the disclosure or inclusion of the serial number in the AES filing. See: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/926

I called and talked to a custom officer at the main customs office in San Diego. They had no idea what I was talking about. The officer said they are still using the 4457 form. It wold seem that any of the powers that be would see this needs to be put on hold until all of the custom agents are at least on the same page. I guess this is too much to expect.

That's a very nice pictorial for sure. Nice work!

I chose to have a customs broker do mine because I wanted to make sure it is done right (don't trust myself), and I don't want any issues of any kind to pop up. I have a copy of the "Shipper's Letter of Instructions and Forwarder Authorizations" that was filled out by the broker, and on the "Description" column I have two entries: the first is my rifle make, model and serial #, and the second is the ammunition. They both have a $$$ value listed as well.

Just got an update from a friend who is sitting in the Dulles airport, going on his 28th safari. Nobody showed any interest in the ITN # except for United Airlines representatives, who did check that he had his ITN #. He told me after United checked it, gave it the thumbs up, TSA couldn't have cared less about it. All went pretty much without a hitch, but he found it odd that United brought it up and not customs/TSA.

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider: ... he found it odd that United brought it up and not customs/TSA.

That is what's troublesome: Different responses and different application of the reg. based upon the airline ... the airport ... the particular CBP/TSA Officer. "... Who's On First ... What's On Second ..."

quote:

Originally posted by ftbt:

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider: ... he found it odd that United brought it up and not customs/TSA.

That is what's troublesome: Different responses and different application of the reg. based upon the airline ... the airport ... the particular CBP/TSA Officer. "... Who's On First ... What's On Second ..."

Ain't that the truth.......

quote:

Originally posted by ftbt:
Thanks for posting the pdf of the screen shots of the AES account. However, you suggest that the serial number of the firearm be included in the description of the article to be exported. I wonder if that is necessary, required, or even lawful? If there is the slightest bit of concern that this is a backdoor attempt at Federal gun registration, then disclosing that information would move us a lot closer to that ultimate goal. Secondly, I couldn't find anything in the EO or the relevant regs. that require the "exporter" to supply the serial number of the firearm in order to get the precious ITN. (I am not saying that requirement isn't buried in some other obtuse rule or reg., it's just that I haven't found it.) Thirdly, the disclosure of the serial number in this context may actually be unlawful. A very good argument can be made that the Firearm Owners Protection Act, 18 U.S. Code 926(a)(3), prohibits the disclosure or inclusion of the serial number in the AES filing. See: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/926

I agree, but common sense would lead me to believe that there should be something identifying the firearm I am exporting. right? I am just picturing the worst case scenario with a customs officer saying "how do I know what rifle you are exporting???" so thats why I decided to include serial number on the commodity description line. Would be nice to get clarification on it.

quote:

Originally posted by bobby7321: I agree, but common sense would lead me to believe that there should be something identifying the firearm I am exporting. right? I am just picturing the worst case scenario with a customs officer saying "how do I know what rifle you are exporting???" so thats why I decided to include serial number on the commodity description line. Would be nice to get clarification on it.

That is part of the problem with this POS: Too many unknowns and too much uncertainty. If I was traveling in the near future, I would still use (or at least attempt to use) a 4457 with my firearm listed in the normal/customary way, with the serial number on the 4457. Obviously, I would obtain the precious ITN, but I would rather establish an account myself and obtain my own ITN without listing the serial number, and take my chances, as long as I had an ITN and a 4457. Assuming I had both the ITN and a 4457, I would respond to the Customs Officer by showing him the 4457 with the serial number. Again, I have found no specific instructions REQUIRING the listing of the serial number on the AES filing. If I am wrong ... I am wrong ... but at this stage I don't feel compelled to contribute to the government's gun registration data base, if I can possibly avoid it.

Can we all agree that we have become a third world country. We are no different than Mexico or some podunk little country in Africa. In fact Mexico has streamlined their rifle registration and is easier than it's been in 30 years.

The main thing this situation should teach us is to try and put our differences aside at election time and support the Republican Party. We have to turn out to vote and not let not having our favorite candidate on the ballot keep us from voting. If the once comfortable population in this country don't start realizing we loose if we're not energized...things like this will happen more and more until they have us boxed in and acting like good little subjects.

If they have a (D) behind their name...vote against them! As the last 6 1/3 years have taught...the Democrats are so partisan...that even the ones who seem sensible...will hold the party line when push comes to shove.

Amen, brother, Amen!

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
The main thing this situation should teach us is to try and put our differences aside at election time and support the Republican Party. We have to turn out to vote ...the Democrats are so partisan...that even the ones who seem sensible...will hold the party line when push comes to shove.

You are right. The Democrats have drunk that liberal pink Obongo Kool-Aid and they just goose-step along in tribute to the Dear Leader.

Living in South Texas, I was once a registered Democrat if you can believe that. Had to be as every contested election occurred in the Democratic primary.

Fast forward. Lane is right. I would never vote for anyone for any office, dogcatcher on up, who had a (D) after their name on the ballot. Thanks to Obama and his cronies -- and that includes Hilary.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Living in South Texas, I was once a registered Democrat if you can believe that. Had to be as every contested election occurred in the Democratic primary.

Fast forward. Lane is right. I would never vote for anyone for any office, dogcatcher on up, who had a (D) after their name on the ballot. Thanks to Obama and his cronies -- and that includes Hilary.

+++1

Kudos to Steve Turner and his crew at Travels with Guns, in particular Fred Salinas, for handling my upcoming Botswana AES dilemma on short notice. I am leaving on the 25th. I started the process (thru Fred) on Tuesday and he got everything done by Thursday evening. Outstanding. That is one example of why I continue to work with Steve and company.

Earlier today, I gathered my firearms, ammo, 4457's, and ITN paperwork and visited the Customs and Border Protection office located near the Houston Intercontinental Airport. My understanding was that one had to present the above to a CBP officer 8 or more hours prior to departure. The first officer that I interfaced with was only partially aware of the new regulations. The officer then summoned his supervisor. The supervisor advised that the firearms and associated paperwork (ITN) had to be presented to a CBP officer on the day of departure (and not earlier). When I told him that I was flying from Houston to South Africa via Atlanta, he advised that I will need to check my rifles to Atlanta, take possession of them, and then present them to a CBP officer located in Atlanta (port of international departure). I asked if CBP is currently enforcing the regulation and he responded that the regulation has been implemented and that it is currently being enforced. My impression is that he had a full understanding of the regulation and it's associated expectations.

The problem with the requirement that a CBP officer has to inspect your firearms on the day of departure is that often CBP officers are not available here in Las Vegas due to international flights. We have had to work around their schedules in getting 4457s in the past and sometimes that means only going down to get them and the firearms inspected on certain days at certain times. Another screwed up requirement. I thought that the requirement was that the firearms must be inspected no less than 8 hours before your flight? Is that not so, and if so, why can't you have them inspected a few days before your flight?

quote:

Originally posted by ftbt:

quote:

Originally posted by bobby7321: I agree, but common sense would lead me to believe that there should be something identifying the firearm I am exporting. right? I am just picturing the worst case scenario with a customs officer saying "how do I know what rifle you are exporting???" so thats why I decided to include serial number on the commodity description line. Would be nice to get clarification on it.

That is part of the problem with this POS: Too many unknowns and too much uncertainty. If I was traveling in the near future, I would still use (or at least attempt to use) a 4457 with my firearm listed in the normal/customary way, with the serial number on the 4457. Obviously, I would obtain the precious ITN, but I would rather establish an account myself and obtain my own ITN without listing the serial number, and take my chances, as long as I had an ITN and a 4457. Assuming I had both the ITN and a 4457, I would respond to the Customs Officer by showing him the 4457 with the serial number. Again, I have found no specific instructions REQUIRING the listing of the serial number on the AES filing. If I am wrong ... I am wrong ... but at this stage I don't feel compelled to contribute to the government's gun registration data base, if I can possibly avoid it.

I'm going to agree with you. Seems logical that they would need some identifying number, as they do on the 4457. Which I am sure when we request the 4457, we get added to some database anyways... BUT after making two more calls and speaking to two different people at AES. They said that they do not require the serial. They said the most important part of the commodity descriptions is getting the Schedule B classification number correct.

I have updated my tutorial and removed any mention of including the serial #.

http://www.docdroid.net/xrsx/a...nstructions.pdf.html

This as received today: "SCI Member Alert -- Update on Procedures for Temporarily Exporting Your Firearms

SCI has received additional information about the newly implemented requirements for traveling with firearms out of the United States, including for international hunting and recreational shooting purposes. All individuals who plan to travel outside the U.S. with their firearms should carefully review the “Fact Sheet: International Travel with Firearms on Commercial Airlines Departing the United States” found below, well in advance of their travel. The Fact Sheet was provided by Customs and Border Protection (CBP).

SCI, together with representatives of several other hunting and shooting organizations, met with personnel from the key agencies involved in adopting, implementing and enforcing these new export procedures. At the meeting, we solicited information about current implementation and future plans concerning firearms and ammunition export reporting requirements. Our findings are below:

Please note that the information below is not intended to serve as legal advice. For additional information, SCI members should consult these sources:
• CBP; Traveling Outside of the U.S.
• ICE; Frequently Asked Questions
• CBP; Port of Entry Contacts
Registering with the Automated Export System (AES): The government is requiring hunters and shooters to use the AES for registering their firearms and ammunition that will be temporarily exported from the U.S. At this time, CBP personnel are not consistently implementing and enforcing these new procedures. In some locations, CBP is already enforcing the new procedures. In others, it is not. Some CBP officers remain unfamiliar with the new procedures. Despite these inconsistencies, the government expects all hunters and shooters who wish to travel with firearms and ammunition to register for and use the new AES system. The government flatly refused SCI’s request that implementation of the new procedures be delayed or suspended until CBP can achieve consistent application.

Dealing with the AES complexity: The government admits that AES registration is not user friendly. They are trying to simplify the registration process and hope these new streamlined procedures will be in place by the end of this year. In the meantime, a hotline has been set up to assist those who need to register. If you need assistance in completing an AES filing, you should call 1-800-549-0595 and press Option 1. Although the line is not open 24 hours a day, you can (and should) leave a message for a return call if you do not reach someone immediately. SCI was told that the people staffing this phone line will be well-prepared to answer questions posed by hunters seeking to travel with their firearms. Alternatively, you can submit questions about AES filing by e-mail to itmd.askaes@census.gov.

Obtaining an Employer Identification Number (EIN): To complete an AES filing, you will need an EIN. Representatives of CBP and the Census Department informed us that they have consulted with the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) about the propriety of obtaining EINs not for business or commercial purposes, but solely for the purpose of making an AES filing to export firearms for personal reasons. SCI was also told that the IRS will be modifying their application process so that applicants can designate AES filing as their purpose for seeking an EIN.

The Importance of Advance Planning: An individual can complete his or her AES filing as early as 120 days in advance of his or her trip. By completing the AES registration, the hunter/shooter obtains the Internal Transaction Number (ITN) that he or she will need to present, along with his or her firearms and ammunition, for inspection to a CBP officer at the airport of departure. For those who are starting their travel at airports without CBP offices, the inspection will need to take place at the airport (involved in the travel) where a CBP office is located. Hunters/shooters should make every effort to arrange for adequate time (e.g. several hours) before or between flights to fulfill this inspection requirement. Ignorance of the procedures or avoidable failure to budget adequate time for the inspection will not encourage CBP personnel to assist with an expeditious inspection process.

Non-Airline Travel: The (below) Fact Sheet and information provided at the meeting attended by representatives of SCI, addresses only travel by commercial airline. We have no concrete information about the enforcement of these new procedures on individuals traveling by other means (e.g., automobile travel to Canada).

SCI Reaction: SCI is currently working with representatives of the National Rifle Association, National Shooting Sports Foundation, and the Congressional Sportsmen’s Foundation to find solutions to the problems presented by these new procedures and to develop more suitable alternatives for the hunter/shooter who wishes to travel with his or her firearms. We are also working on ways that our members can help to communicate our concerns about the problems caused by these new requirements. We will keep you posted with new developments."

quote:

The government flatly refused SCI’s request that implementation of the new procedures be delayed or suspended until CBP can achieve consistent application.

Yep - they have us all by the goolies, and they're not letting go. 2016 can't come soon enough for me, and God help us if we elect another Democrat!

I have a few questions for those who have gone thru the process and received an ITN from a third party (travel with guns, gracy, coppersmith, etc...)

1 - What type of document are they giving you? An actual printed copy of the Shipment info? like this

http://i.imgur.com/WJr4cNl.jpg

or simply the ITN number by itself?

2 - If the shipment was processed by one of these third party companies offering this service, are they listed as the "Freight Forwarder"? Seems that if the EIN used to register with AES is different that the USPPI (person going on the trip), the AES account holder's info and EIN are automatically added as the freight forwarder.

3 - If you were supplied with the actual shipment info form, it will list the commodities at the bottom. Can you give us an example of how the rifle and ammo are listed? Also what Schedule B commodity codes were used?

The classification numbers I am using are

Rifle: 9303307017 (updated)
Ammo: 9306304120


Here is a copy of my first ITN for reference. This was printed right from the AES system once the EEI was approved (withing minutes of submitting)

http://i.imgur.com/WJr4cNl.jpg

I think once we get the few last questions worked out it will be pretty simple. The easiest fix for now would be to simply allow SSNs to be used as EINs (like they are everywhere else in the US)

I have a copy of the direct shipment record, like the one you pdf'ed, which has the ITN # on it. I also have a copy of a "Shippers Letter of Instructions and Forwarder Authorization", which I'm not sure is necessary. What I was told by my friend while he was at Dulles heading to SA yesterday, all they asked for was the ITN, he gave it to them, and all was fine.

I contacted my source for the ITN earlier today, and she informed me her hunters hadn't had any issues via Atlanta, and in fact they hadn't even asked about it at all yet.

My classifications are as follows:
Rifle 930330817 Rifles, Centerfire Bolt Action
Ammo 9306304120

Not sure if you've already gotten your ITN yet, but the Rifle code you used 9303307012 "Rifles, Single Shot Centerfire Bolt Action.

ok so ammo we are on the same page. great.


I am trying to find rifles under 930330817, do you mean 9303307017 (bolt action rifles, other)?

I don't see anything ending in 817 anywhere on this list unless I'm just overlooking it.

http://www.census.gov/foreign-...ules/b/2015/c93.html

Also do you have someone listed as the Freight Forwarder?