quote:

Originally posted by BFaucett:
Whether a .45-70 will kill a Buff or is adequate for Buff (or other game) is not the topic of this thread. The discussion is about this:

quote:

Originally posted by JJHACK:
... His buddy says that in his Siamese mauser he can easily equal the 416 rigby and it's more powerful then the 458 Win Mag. He claims 2100 fps with a 500 grain bullet.

My question is this, how does a shell that holds only 55 grains or so of powder do all this? The rigby is over 100 grains and the win mag is stuffed to the gills to get 2100fps?

Am I missing something here?

As Canuck replied to someone else above:
"JJ was only wondering how someone could possibly think they can equal the performance of a 458 Lott or 416 Rigby with 45/70."

-Bob F.

thanks for the focusing bfaucett. i would not push the envelope that far. the 45-70 is not a 458 winnie or a 416 and does not need to be.

boom stick posted:
thanks for the focusing bfaucett. i would not push the envelope that far. the 45-70 is not a 458 winnie or a 416 and does not need to be.[/QUOTE]

Thanks brother, yes we did drift some and I do agree with you. With proper loads at close range
I think it will work. It ain't a Lott or a 416
it is a round that has passed the test of time like few have.
surestrike--- I'll admit to redneck
Lets get the lotto up and running and I'll get to the load data.

I wasn't trying to be stern, or rude or anything. But I do (and I think most of do) get so tired of the ".45-70 and Cape Buffalo" threads. I was just trying to steer the discussion back on topic.

Thanks,
-Bob F.

I try to avoid posts where there are individuals that make excessive use of the "quote" option, but here goes. The argument that a 45/70 can kill a Cape Buff is not in question here for after all, it's been done with arrows, spears and a host of smaller calibers, even a 22 lr.
That does not make it an adequate caliber but more of a "circus act" by folks with insecurities that feel they have something to prove or are trying to SELL something by making a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

Moreover, to anybody that says they can equal a 416 Rigby with that antiquated POS round, well, they're either morons (as in they can't read a chrono) or liars. I suspect both. jorge

lets get all of the anti 45-70 crowd to antie up $100 to saeed and we'll have a lotto and see how many people will sign up for the hunt. that will separate the wheat from the chaff

Gents,

Do you think I should get another 45/70 buff hunt raffle going?
Maybe I could talk Ganyana into doing the PH work. He has E-mailed me as to the possibly of a non-throphy Ele hunt that wouldn't run too high in cost. Maybe a combo hunt. One buff with 45/70 and one Ele with gun of choice.

Toss it around and let me know.

Roger QSL

Boom Stick,

You're new around here. Do a search on the phrase "buff hunt raffle". And, yes, the past raffle was about using a .45-70 to take the Buff.

-Bob F.

quote:

Originally posted by Roger:
Gents,

Do you think I should get another 45/70 buff hunt raffle going?

I'm not a naysayer, and I'd certainly be in, but didn't you just try this? I guess there could be enough new members now to pull it off, but...

yeahaw! count me in i'll be lotto holder #1

Roger: you find a place that will let me hunt both the buff and ele with a 45-70 and I'll hire and pay for the camera operator. May even bring the bow along and poke a big old non trophy ele with it too!

Anyone man enough here to run the camera? How about jorge he runs of at the mouth fairly often like in his last post.

Charles,

Just pryor to the very nice hunt that Saeed and the guys gave away, I had been discussing with Ganyana the possibility of another raffle for a buff hunt. We didn't follow up as the hunt Saeed gave away, killed any prospect of doing something again along the lines of a raffle.

Now that the fire has been stoked with this posting on the 45/70, maybe interest will again make a 45/70 hunt raffle work.

Ganyana has mentioned to me that non-throphy ele are possible at a very reasonable cost.
Non-throphy ele simply means no Ivory to be transported out of country.

If any more interest in this shows up, I will contact Ganyana and see what we can arrange.
Anything beyond this post must be with Saeed's approval. I will not proceed beyond this feeler until a large response is indicated.

Roger QSL

roger , how much per lotto ticket and can you buy more than one?

we would have to start a new thread titled "45-70 buff hunt lotto, intrested?" and also post it on other catagory discussion groups like the big game ect

The .45-70 is like Beetlejuice in the movie. Say it's name three times and someone is ready to go pester cape buffalo with one.

The topic was that some goober thought you could load it to surpass the .416 Rigby or .458 WinMag. My Guide Gun is interesting enough with 350gr @ 2,000fps. I'll pass on 500gr @ 2,100fps out of a 7 pound rifle thank you very much!

But I'd have to try a buff-with-45/70 raffle anyway.

There is never a "DEAD HORSE" icon, when you really really need a "DEAD HORSE" icon!

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
There is never a "DEAD HORSE" icon, when you really really need a "DEAD HORSE" icon!

rusty, does this mean you want a lotto ticket?

if you over beat a dead horse you end up with mcdonalds patties i think we need a hamburger patty icon "hamburger patty icon"

quote:

Originally posted by cats:
Roger: you find a place that will let me hunt both the buff and ele with a 45-70 and I'll hire and pay for the camera operator. May even bring the bow along and poke a big old non trophy ele with it too!

Anyone man enough here to run the camera? How about jorge he runs of at the mouth fairly often like in his last post.

Cats

Tell you what. I'll pay my own way. Supply the Video Camera an help with the hunt. In return you prove that the 45-70 and any Bow Arrow combo you choose is a Dangerous Game weapon.

You will do this by taking a charging buffalo with your bow, straight on, with no back up. Also a charging non-trophy Ele, straight on, with no back up with your lever action 45-70.

If you are successful we will have the tape to prove it and probably a spot on Television. If you are not, well you will still be a spot.

If a weapon will not kill under the worst conditions it is not a Dangerous Game weapon but just another toy that works, mostly.

i am not cats, but the 45-70 with a garret tungsten bullet is a buff stopper. elephant, i dont know but if i am backed up i will try. a bow on a charging buff... maybe i would do it backed up with a p.h. with a 45-70 i can do ten arrow 5" groups at 50 yards. maybe that would be good enough

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
There is never a "DEAD HORSE" icon, when you really really need a "DEAD HORSE" icon!

Amen brother!!!!!

Here you go!



George

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
i am not cats, but the 45-70 with a garret tungsten bullet is a buff stopper. elephant, i dont know but if i am backed up i will try. a bow on a charging buff... maybe i would do it backed up with a p.h. with a 45-70 i can do ten arrow 5" groups at 50 yards. maybe that would be good enough

boom stick

If you are sure it is a Buff Stopper than you won't need back up.

Can you do your ten arrow group in 4 seconds?

"Don't tell me how well you shoot at 50 yards, tell me how well you shoot at 5 yards."

Why not send them after the Buff (with a 45-70 lever gun) alone and let Mr. Darwin decide?

quote:

Originally posted by Mickey1:

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
i am not cats, but the 45-70 with a garret tungsten bullet is a buff stopper. elephant, i dont know but if i am backed up i will try. a bow on a charging buff... maybe i would do it backed up with a p.h. with a 45-70 i can do ten arrow 5" groups at 50 yards. maybe that would be good enough

boom stick

If you are sure it is a Buff Stopper than you won't need back up.

Can you do your ten arrow group in 4 seconds?

"Don't tell me how well you shoot at 50 yards, tell me how well you shoot at 5 yards."

"maybe" not a stopper on elephant...

4 seconds, i will practice, maybe 2 aimed shots but point taken(no pun)

5 yards...easy i will go to the range and let you know. i will draw a buff head and take pics. this gives me a good excuse to pull out the mathews ultralite and work on the bow arm

quote:

Originally posted by Zero Drift:

ZD -- nice smilie collection!

Don't know why the 45/70 brings out such a range of horse dung, but it never fails to entertain...

If you can get one of these "way beyond book pressure" guys to the range on a HOT day, try this- Let the rifle bake in the sun for an hour then fire 4 shots as fast as they can hit a 12 inch target at 50 yds, wait 5 minutes or so while the next round is cooking in a chamber you could fry eggs in, then fire 2 more quick shots (reload as needed). And see how things go in a "hits the fan" situation. BTW stand way back!!! Have been suprised by extraction problems, really flat primers and change in point of impact when trying this on what I thought were medium pressure rounds (not 45-70).

So like I answered the question originally as to if a .45-70 can be loaded to .458Lott levels and such........the answer is still....



I propose that from now on when the .45-70 is refered to as a DG rifle that we will call it the .458WTR (White Trash Redneck.)

quote:

Originally posted by cats:
Roger: you find a place that will let me hunt both the buff and ele with a 45-70 and I'll hire and pay for the camera operator. May even bring the bow along and poke a big old non trophy ele with it too!

Anyone man enough here to run the camera? How about jorge he runs of at the mouth fairly often like in his last post.

wynwood

YEP

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:

quote:

Originally posted by cats:
Roger: you find a place that will let me hunt both the buff and ele with a 45-70 and I'll hire and pay for the camera operator. May even bring the bow along and poke a big old non trophy ele with it too!

Anyone man enough here to run the camera? How about jorge he runs of at the mouth fairly often like in his last post.

wynwood

quote:

Originally posted by Mickey1:

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:

quote:

Originally posted by cats:
Roger: you find a place that will let me hunt both the buff and ele with a 45-70 and I'll hire and pay for the camera operator. May even bring the bow along and poke a big old non trophy ele with it too!

Anyone man enough here to run the camera? How about jorge he runs of at the mouth fairly often like in his last post.

wynwood

And Charles whathisnameagain.

if i cant do the hunting, i'll do the camera, just pay my way, i got plenty of vacation time. i know, get all us 45-70 freaks on the same hunt and wipe us all out at the same time then we won't clog up the board with our petty redneck can't punch through a paper target 125 year old pea shooter ideas. it will be the four five seveno's against africa.

surestrike... the 45-70 will never be the lott or the 416. i like both of those verrrrry much but the you know what will do a buff and i would be glad to show you just like others have

Thanks guys this thread was really great entertainment. Zero Drifts dead horse icons were fantastic, can we please have them in instant gremlins?

I've shot a few animals with a Marlin GG in 45-70, it worked fine, on deer, elk and black bear at short range. I also reloaded all my ammo and with 350 or 405 grain bullets brass started to flow, get big nasty bulges in the side near the case head when the velocity got over 1900 fps.

2200 with a 500 grainer, was that before or after you ate the pretty mushrooms...

Bullet choise seems to be a big topic around here and from what I've read this seems to be something the DG with a 45-70 advocates spend lots of words on and seems to be the telling point on how the 45-70 does. Hunt cape buff with a 46-70? Sure as long as the PH has a Lott or some other suitable stopper, sign me up. But the ammo I use better include some form of FMJ flat metplat.

quote:

I also reloaded all my ammo and with 350 or 405 grain bullets brass started to flow, get big nasty bulges in the side near the case head when the velocity got over 1900 fps

you have to find better brass. what kind were you using

Back on topic.

We aren't talking about a crap tube magazine Marlin lever action here. A Siamese Mauser is as strong as a Ruger No. 1 so will allow considerably more powerful loads. Not .458 Win Mag though.

What I find funny about these "bizzaros" is how they never understand a 400 grain bullet at the 'same' velocity out of a .416 is not the same as out of a .458 calibre.

quote:

surestrike... the 45-70 will never be the lott or the 416. i like both of those verrrrry much but the you know what will do a buff and i would be glad to show you just like others have

Boomstick,

I've killed several buffalo with a .458 lott. Also with a .470NE. I've also dealt with one very nasty close range charge in thick jesse.

And in that case a head shot was impossible. Like all things natural and violent, charges do not occur in a text book fashion. I was forced to drop that bull with a neck/ shoulder shot from my .470NE and a 500gr solid at very close range.

Until you've experience an honest to god short range in the shit charge I suggest you leave your "I read it in an African adventure novel." DG hunting knowledge in California. It may save you and more importantly the men working with you from having to make a very sad long distance telephone call.

This is all just a fun games until something goes wrong. It does happen, and when it does you'd be better off with the best tool for the job.

I am damn glad I had the correct tool in my hands when the SHTF.

Would I have been able to stop the bull with a .458WTR.. Maybe..But I'm glad that I didn't have to find out.

No offense intended. But I have a whole new outlook on this DG hunting stuff and I take it deadly serious.

Greg

P.S.

Tim Sundels of Buffalo Bore ammunition recomends Starline Brass ONLY for his monster thumper .45-70 loads. I use his loading data to get a maxed out 1900FPS out of a 405gr bullet.

I am not anti .458WTR I'm just anti stupid use of the .458WTR.

surestrike. if you read my earlier post i wrote that i would chose a 416 as my first choice. but i said it "can" be done with the 45-70. and i would do it backed up like anyone else. if it is just me alone i would probably want the 450 rigby (sorry lott) great story, like i said before there is no shame in getting old, but there is if you have no great stories to tell

Zero, Thanks! Just when I thought there was no hope!

Yes lots of horse dung! They must like it? They seem to want to feed a bunch of it to others?

Surestrike, I like the new caliber. Could it also be known as the 45/70 TrollMag?

I would say that in many cases ,velocities are measured the same way as groups on chat rooms ,and that is measured at the key board. I never bother saying what my groups were because they are always going to be much worse than billy bobs old blunderbuss can shoot.