quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

As I have never had anyone have an accidental discharge while hunting.

Saeed, Im am thinking that you dont have anywhere near the turn around/variety of hunters in your camps,
as a fulltime PH has Each season.
IF such a PH was to say he has never had an AD in his group,. id be most surprised, to say the least.

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:
It's the guys who have NOT had ADs who are going to be, on average more careless.

What an absolute load of rubbish. Please don't attempt to excuse your own AD by slurring those who have never had an AD or any other accident with a firearm.

Does it not occur to you that those who have not had an AD are obviously up to this point of time the safest firearms handlers. The guy who has driven a car for years without accident does not suddenly become a careless driver on average than one who has had an accident.

I write this from a point of having spent the majority of my 62 years of age hunting in all types of country under all types of conditions and have been a warranted firearms safety instructor for over 30 years.

Give us a break please and no excuses.

eagle

Agree. Tendrams is way off the mark.

quote:

Originally posted by Chuck Nelson:
Here is the fact. He did it on camera and then said he didn't. That has bugger all to do with how anyone else waives their gun about.

Shootaway denying it, is not much different to someone shooting someone,then quickly & conveniently putting it
in the context of being 'just an accident', which could appear to be an attempt to quickly vindicate oneself of any
irresponsible firearms handling.

Like politicians, some people believe if they say certain things soon enough and repeat it enough times,
[and get the celebrity dazzled public to repeat it for them]
people will eventually [and blindly] regard it as the truth.
Some people might also conveniently perceive the truth as being just an unsavoury-unfounded rumour mill.



Q./ Why is it that people wont accept that Shootaway drilling a cow was 'just an accident'
and not negligence,carelessness and incompetence on his behalf >
but wilfully accept that T.Herald & B.Boddington drilling a PERSON rather than the animal, was 'just an accident'
and not negligence,carelessness and incompetence on their behalf?

Shootaway didnt listen to the PH and the others didnt listen to their own better judgement.

with each situation ending in a clusteRf**k, to one degree or another....

quote:

Shootaway didnt listen to the PH and the others didnt listen to their own better judgement.

with each situation ending in a clusteRf**k, to one degree or another....

I see one major difference, Shootaway (the shooter) is the only one who "paid a price" for HIS mistake VS Tim Herald (the shooter) walked away and left someone else to cover the tab.

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:

I'll tell you exactly how the rest of us would look, Like George.



Steve[/QUOTE]

I would agree that most, probably all of us have swept someone from time to time. However, I doubt that I have pointed my gun at someone's back repeatedly with the safety off. Regardless, it is not acceptable whether it is George or me.

We have now made the predicted 10 pages I see.

Since this does not seem to want to die, just one question for everyone making responses.

How many of us have Total Recall concerning All of our gun handling action on Every hunt we have Ever been on from DAY 1 of our individual hunting careers?

I know I don't, and I have serious doubts that anyone else does. I am not defending shootaway by any means.

But, from experience on both sides of the coin, as the hunter/client and as the guide, in the heat/excitement of "Battle" mistakes are made, and in the vast majority/overwhelming majority since nothing bad happens, many potential deadly gun handling mistakes go either un-noticed or are ignored.

Many of us casting stones might not be so vociferous if a cameraman was walking behind us recording how we were handling our self and our firearm.

quote:

Originally posted by 505G:
eagle

Agree. Tendrams is way off the mark.

Not making excuses at all and am not slurring anyone....but I would still bet, on average, that guys who have screwed up once are less likely to think themselves "invincible" to doing something stupid and more likely to be careful in the future. I know I am. I do believe that there are two types of people in the world...those who have had an AD and, given enough time and experience, those who very likely will. To extend your example, would I rather drive with a 25 year old who has never had an accident or a 25 year old who just had a bad one and was almost killed last year? Generally, I think the latter. Now, obviously, things change when you are talking about a 60 year old who has never had an accident.

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

1/ George is certainly not handicapped in any way- infact he runs a pretty successful little business.

So he just acts like a retarded sociopath for fun then?

Did you ever think, He is just a bit different than others? How about a bit of tolerance?

Honestly, I'd rather share a camp with George than most of his detractors in this thread.

This has shown me what a bunch of sourpuss old ladies this sport has in it.

Ahh isn't that cute? A sensitivity lecture from the very same guy who was commenting on a critically injured ladies sexy panties just a short time ago.

Dude shut up, seriously, you are doing nothing more than juicing this thread for your entertainment and you know it.

But it is kind of funny and please by all means lets have the sensitive new age man "Nganga" giving care and compassion for the socipathic hunt and hunt report soon. Please proceed as stated and build your karma, good karma is always a positive thing.

Just replying to you makes my crystal aura shine with karmic happiness, you enlightened SOB you.

LIKE, GIVE ME A BREAK DUDE!!

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:

quote:

Originally posted by 505G:
eagle

Agree. Tendrams is way off the mark.

Not making excuses at all and am not slurring anyone....but I would still bet, on average, that guys who have screwed up once are less likely to think themselves "invincible" to doing something stupid and more likely to be careful in the future. I know I am. I do believe that there are two types of people in the world...those who have had an AD and, given enough time and experience, those who very likely will. To extend your example, would I rather drive with a 25 year old who has never had an accident or a 25 year old who just had a bad one and was almost killed last year? Generally, I think the latter. Now, obviously, things change when you are talking about a 60 year old who has never had an accident.

I understand what you are saying. You are probably right with some people. Others will never be effected.

Sir,

Interesting but you will be vilified for that statement and you are 100 % correct. They ate the pretty people, can shoot people and cry accident. Then if you question gun safety they crawl out of the wood work to cuucify you. In the Military or State Police they would have been gone! Shootaway is not loved so he is treated like an animal for shooting the wrong animal or passing a gun in an unsafe manner.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

1/ George is certainly not handicapped in any way- infact he runs a pretty successful little business.

So he just acts like a retarded sociopath for fun then?

Did you ever think, He is just a bit different than others? How about a bit of tolerance?

Honestly, I'd rather share a camp with George than most of his detractors in this thread.

This has shown me what a bunch of sourpuss old ladies this sport has in it.

Ahh isn't that cute? A sensitivity lecture from the very same guy who was commenting on a critically injured ladies sexy panties just a short time ago.

Dude shut up, seriously, you are doing nothing more than juicing this thread for your entertainment and you know it.

But it is kind of funny and please by all means lets have the sensitive new age man "Nganga" giving care and compassion for the socipathic hunt and hunt report soon. Please proceed as stated and build your karma, good karma is always a positive thing.

Just replying to you makes my crystal aura shine with karmic happiness, you enlightened SOB you.

LIKE, GIVE ME A BREAK DUDE!!

DUDE, You need to retract that statement. I have no idea of what you speak about a critically injured woman. OK, DUDE.

It has nothing to do with sensitivity. It's called being a civilized human being, DUDE.

Gentlemen it seems the posts have brought a mix of things not germane to the original thread. This is why the thread has made it to page 10, and not justified IMO.

George’s only problems have been expanded by the posters here to include accidental discharge, which did not happen. Then shooting the wrong animal which did happen, but in heavy cover in a herd situation could happen to anyone.

The crime here is not killing the wrong animal, he paid for that! The real crime is the fact that he fired his rifle after being told to WAIT! That to me indicates that what we have here is a case of a person who seems to be disconnected from reality when under stress and seemingly tunes things like others warnings out simply getting lost in his own thoughts, and disregarding input from anyone.

Then he was seen sweeping the PH on several instances during the stalk, and after being told on several occasions to WAIT, he simply ignores the order and fires his rifle killing the wrong animal.

I for one do not think he can help these things, and really believes he did not do the things he has been accused of, things that are clearly presented in his own film. That is just a layman’s opinion

So! Many have brought into the discussion accidental discharges, because of George’s sweeping of the PH with his rifle. Some say they see the safety in the fire position, maybe but I don’t see that.

In any event one must remember that all accidental discharges are the result of poor gun handling. Some are the result of poor mechanical design, like the well known problem with some well known rifles that are prone to DISCHARGES when the safety is pushed to the fire position. This becomes poor gun handling only when the AD happens when the shooter has the rifle pointed at someone when it happens, or when the owner continues to use the rifle once he knows this.

………………………………..10 PAGES ?????????????????????

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
Gentlemen it seems the posts have brought a mix of things not germane to the original thread. This is why the thread has made it to page 10, and not justified IMO.

George’s only problems have been expanded by the posters here to include accidental discharge, which did not happen. Then shooting the wrong animal which did happen, but in heavy cover in a herd situation could happen to anyone.

The crime here is not killing the wrong animal, he paid for that! The real crime is the fact that he fired his rifle after being told to WAIT! That to me indicates that what we have here is a case of a person who seems to be disconnected from reality when under stress and seemingly tunes things like others warnings out simply getting lost in his own thoughts, and disregarding input from anyone.

Then he was seen sweeping the PH on several instances during the stalk, and after being told on several occasions to WAIT, he simply ignores the order and fires his rifle killing the wrong animal.

I for one do not think he can help these things, and really believes he did not do the things he has been accused of, things that are clearly presented in his own film. That is just a layman’s opinion

So! Many have brought into the discussion accidental discharges, because of George’s sweeping of the PH with his rifle. Some say they see the safety in the fire position, maybe but I don’t see that.

In any event one must remember that all accidental discharges are the result of poor gun handling. Some are the result of poor mechanical design, like the well known problem with some well known rifles that are prone to DISCHARGES when the safety is pushed to the fire position. This becomes poor gun handling only when the AD happens when the shooter has the rifle pointed at someone when it happens, or when the owner continues to use the rifle once he knows this.

………………………………..10 PAGES ?????????????????????

WOW, this thread has really gone off the deep end, straight into LaLa Land!! Attempting to link this to the Boddington and Herald mishaps is WWWWAAAAYYYY off the mark and incredibly short sighted.

Mac, nice attempt to bring it back on point! You came close in the highlighted statement above, but you still missed the mark. Yes, George shot the wrong animal. That could happen to anyone and is certainly forgivable, once the fine has been accessed and paid. And to your point, he did so mainly because he disregarded his PH's instructions. Yeah, now that's a bit less forgivable but still something that could have just been an honest failure to hear, misunderstanding, or at worse, downright disregard. If the latter, then we start to have a real problem.

So now the real gist of this entire thread ... once he disregarded Blake's instructions to wait, he blamed the PH instead of taking responsibility for the screw up. That's the 1st of the two major issues I have with the guy on this particular event. Blaming someone else for his screw up. Then to top it off, it isn't enough for George to wrongfully blame the PH, but ... and here it is ... wait for it ... the MAJOR BULLSHIT aspect to this entire sad saga ... he attempted to tell us all, in the previous thread that led to this one, that his superior hunting and bushcraft skills resulted in obtaining meat for the camp specifically as a result of disregarding the PHs instructions which he believed would lead to an unsuccessful stalk! So he therefore took to the field alone, without help from anyone, and procured the camp's meat (that's the way he told the story). Of course he left out that he shot the WRONG animal in the process. But more to the point, and many here are still missing this:

BY STATING IN THE PREVIOUS THREAD, THAT HE DISREGARDED THE PH'S INSTRUCTIONS AND SHOT CAMP MEAT ON HIS OWN, SUCCESSFULLY KILLING THE BUFFALO, HE IS IN FACT ADMITTING THAT HIS PLAN ALL ALONG WAS TO DISREGARD THE PH'S INSTRUCTIONS AND JUST PICK HIS OWN ANIMAL TO KILL!! THERE WAS NO UNINTENTIONAL MISTAKE MADE HERE. HE PLANNED TO DISREGARD THE PH. HE PLANED TO SHOOT WHATEVER ANIMAL HE WANTED TO. CONSEQUENCES BE DAMMED. THEN WHEN IT TURNED OUT BAD, IT WASN'T HIS FAULT, IT WAS THE PH'S FAULT, THE SAME PH HE WENT AFIELD PLANNING TO PAY NO ATTENTION TO!!!!!

Now why would he do such a thing you might ask? Well, a little history here. On George's previous hunts, Blake, the PH in this video, was an appy. George has a serious lack of respect for others. Because of that, he believes that since Blake was an appy when they hunted together previously, in his mind, he is still an appy and always will be. He doesn't respect Blake's completion of the PH requirements and he doesn't respect Blake's now full PH license. It's that pure and simple.

That, gentlemen, is why George deserves every bit of ire he has drawn from this forum. Mentally retarded? I don't know. Certainly strange. But that really has nothing to do with it. The fact is that George is an asshole! Pure and simple. Nothing more and nothing less. He has no respect for anyone, including himself. You boys that want to share a camp with him, be my guest. I'm sure fairgame could arrange a group hunt for you all. A happy camp that would be, I'm sure.

Personally, I've got no use for the asshole! And were it not for the fact that he attempted to discredit a good fellow, and young PH, just getting his career underway, and building his reputation, I would have refrained from entering this fracas!

If anyone is wondering about the camp meat I took on my own it was a guinea foul I shot in Makuti.It was just a few yards away from the truck-you can see it on my video album.It was funny to read what Todd can think up.Like Buzz said,things like this only happen to the best hunters!

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

Personally, I've got no use for the asshole!

Todd!

As a colorectal surgeon I must tell you; actually you do!

Good Hunting
CF

That is hysterical!

quote:

Originally posted by Carl Frederik Nagell:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

Personally, I've got no use for the asshole!

Todd!

As a colorectal surgeon I must tell you; actually you do!

Good Hunting
CF

This is the most crucial and meaningful thing that has been brought up in this whole thread.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
Gentlemen it seems the posts have brought a mix of things not germane to the original thread. This is why the thread has made it to page 10, and not justified IMO.

George’s only problems have been expanded by the posters here to include accidental discharge, which did not happen. Then shooting the wrong animal which did happen, but in heavy cover in a herd situation could happen to anyone.

The crime here is not killing the wrong animal, he paid for that! The real crime is the fact that he fired his rifle after being told to WAIT! That to me indicates that what we have here is a case of a person who seems to be disconnected from reality when under stress and seemingly tunes things like others warnings out simply getting lost in his own thoughts, and disregarding input from anyone.

Then he was seen sweeping the PH on several instances during the stalk, and after being told on several occasions to WAIT, he simply ignores the order and fires his rifle killing the wrong animal.

I for one do not think he can help these things, and really believes he did not do the things he has been accused of, things that are clearly presented in his own film. That is just a layman’s opinion

So! Many have brought into the discussion accidental discharges, because of George’s sweeping of the PH with his rifle. Some say they see the safety in the fire position, maybe but I don’t see that.

In any event one must remember that all accidental discharges are the result of poor gun handling. Some are the result of poor mechanical design, like the well known problem with some well known rifles that are prone to DISCHARGES when the safety is pushed to the fire position. This becomes poor gun handling only when the AD happens when the shooter has the rifle pointed at someone when it happens, or when the owner continues to use the rifle once he knows this.

………………………………..10 PAGES ?????????????????????

Hi Mac,

I think you're right. Perhaps my asking for civility has extended this thread as Suresrtike has proposed.

It has reinforced my belief that people have a genuine dislike and or discomfort for people not like them. A lesson I have learned the hard way.

If simply requesting for people to refrain from name calling, statements of ones mental state are out of line, society as a whole has devolved faster than I thought.

I continue to say, I am not defending George or his actions, I am not.

Surestrike: I still see no retraction nor proof of me saying anything like you said I did. Regardless, I won't post on this anymore. I don't need the last word.

Steve

what Todd said...George is a fkn idiot and gets exactly what he asks for. Anyone who has been on this forum for the last several years will already know this.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
If anyone is wondering about the camp meat I took on my own it was a guinea foul I shot in Makuti.It was just a few yards away from the truck-you can see it on my video album.It was funny to read what Todd can think up.Like Buzz said,things like this only happen to the best hunters!

the camp meat you procured was a single guinea fowl?? must be a small camp. and you need to re-read your post. you absolutely gave the impression you went off alone and shot a buffalo for camp meat. when people questioned the legality of that, you made no comment. this is the first anyone has heard of the guinea fowl bullshit.

That is a real crime equal to shooting people in the back. You need to get real!

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:
I would still bet, on average, that guys who have screwed up once are less likely to think themselves "invincible" to doing something stupid and more likely to be careful in the future. I know I am. I do believe that there are two types of people in the world...those who have had an AD and, given enough time and experience, those who very likely will. To extend your example, would I rather drive with a 25 year old who has never had an accident or a 25 year old who just had a bad one and was almost killed last year? Generally, I think the latter.

I know a young commercial pilot who had a low-level tail rotor strike,he and the pax were ultra fortunate to survived.
NO one will be in pax seat next to him ever again, because the incident really spooked him and he decided to never pilot again.
A person who has had a major incident with firearm, aircraft or vehicle and decides to give it away, is no where near as dangerous
as the one who brushes it all OFF and continues on with their bad practices that caused the disaster in the first place.
>>
Example: I know another young commercial pilot who wrote a helicopter off, flippantly brushed the whole major incident off,
then continued to do other silly and dangerous things in the course of their flying career.
Hard Experience seemed to teach that person nothing in the diciplines of safety & regard for people and equipment.
I could not imagine their 'blase' attitude being any different with say different equipment, like a firearm.

quote:

he disregarded his PH's instructions.

Bad George!! ....

But dont worry too much,
there are people out there who when the PH instructs them to shoot[or quickly shoot again.. !! ]
cannot manage to get effective shot[s] off, because of fear,panic,fumbling and bumbling.
And if they somehow haphazardly do, can end-up hitting a person in the process.

yep,just like others in difference scenarios, they also fail to do what the PH has clearly instructed them to do.
but they dont get verbally castigated like others do.

quote:

Originally posted by Carl Frederik Nagell:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

Personally, I've got no use for the asshole!

Todd!

As a colorectal surgeon I must tell you; actually you do!

Good Hunting
CF

Now THAT's funny Carl!!

But ... I'm not sure I'd want your job!!

This POS is beginning to rank right up there with some of the Mark Sullivan threads and those about Capstick being such a fraud.

I would like to buy some of you for what your worth and sell you for what you think your worth.

People Not One Damn Thing You Have Said Or Are Going To Say Is Going To Affect Shootaway IN ANY MANNER, Other Than Giving Him The Attention He Is Wanting!

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:

quote:

Originally posted by 505G:
eagle

Agree. Tendrams is way off the mark.

Not making excuses at all and am not slurring anyone....but I would still bet, on average, that guys who have screwed up once are less likely to think themselves "invincible" to doing something stupid and more likely to be careful in the future. I know I am. I do believe that there are two types of people in the world...those who have had an AD and, given enough time and experience, those who very likely will. To extend your example, would I rather drive with a 25 year old who has never had an accident or a 25 year old who just had a bad one and was almost killed last year? Generally, I think the latter. Now, obviously, things change when you are talking about a 60 year old who has never had an accident.

Tendrams,

I also think you are way off the mark. All people are not rational with reasonable intelligence. Some people are predisposed to do the same stupid shit over and over again.

I saw an old high school classmate recently. He just lost his job because of his 4th DUI ticket. I know several guys with multiple DUI's. I know another guy that killed someone in a car wreck while getting his 3rd DUI. I only know one person, that got a DUI, and actually changed his ways.

I'm an oil trader. I have seen several traders with really good jobs get fired for repeatedly blowing up their books. After getting fired 2 or 3 times, you would think a person would learn a lesson.

I know a broker that got fired 3 times for basically stealing from his employers. He was charging furniture, personal gifts and family trips on his corporate card. He was pretty good at his job and paid very well, but now no one will hire him. His is no longer in the industry.

I met a fellow recently that was complaining about his poor financial situation because he was going through his 6th divorce. To make it even more stupid, it is his soon to be ex-wife's 5th divorce. Both those idiots will probably get married again.

Some people never learn from their mistakes, Accidental Discharges included.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
This POS is beginning to rank right up there with some of the Mark Sullivan threads and those about Capstick being such a fraud.

Being a tragic alcoholic bartender in Botswana and buying his PH license in Zambia,
ie; in a time and place when anyone could conveniently do so for a mere fee,
without the requirement to work under a PH for a period and then do proficiency tests
both written and in the field to obtain a licence.

gee,why would anyone then suspect Crapstick of being a fraud?
.....

oh God, here we go again. another 5-6 pages....

quote:

gee,why would anyone then suspect Crapstick of being a fraud?.....

Fraud. Maybe so, but he sure wrote some high adventure books for me to enjoy.

quote:

Fraud. Maybe so, but he sure wrote some high adventure books for me to enjoy.

And for many other people also. I can see from past responses why shootaway came up with the jealousy angle. How many folks actually have any proof that Capstick was a fraud, and how many are/were simply jealous that he lived life on his terms and they are afraid to live life on theirs!

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

Fraud. Maybe so, but he sure wrote some high adventure books for me to enjoy.

And for many other people also. I can see from past responses why shootaway came up with the jealousy angle. How many folks actually have any proof that Capstick was a fraud, and how many are/were simply jealous that he lived life on his terms and they are afraid to live life on theirs!

I have read every book Capstick had written, and I have enjoyed them very much.

In fact, I think he was instrumental in getting me interested in hunting in Africa, something I am very grateful for.

But, I understand from talking to PHs in Africa that he had a tendency to hit the bottle while at the hunting camps. And that some of the stories he had attributed to him being involved in were not true, but others had done.

Again, I don't think any of us can be sure what the truth is.

I only watched one of his videos, and frankly, I was very disappointed about it.

It was nothing like his books.

Was he really a fraud?

I have no idea.

Am I jealous of him?

Absolutely not.

Shootaway saying that people are jealous of him is very hard for me to understand.

Are people jealous of him hunting?

I doubt it, as most here have hunted Africa.

Are they jealous of him shooting a cow by mistake?

I doubt it, as I am sure no one wants to get into that sort of situation.

quote:

...and how many are/were simply jealous that he lived life on his terms and they are afraid to live life on theirs!

If you are proud & encouraging of raging alcoholic writers-gun handlers like
Osa Johnson,Hemingway,Craptick and Ruark, be my guest.

I wonder how people like that never killed or seriously injured anyone while carrying a loaded gun,
specially since Ruark could polish off some 46 bottles of Gin over a 42 day Safari.
THose days and nights in the Bush must have seemed just like an alcohol induced misty blurr to him.

This is a post from a past AR member... Allen Day.

quote:

In 1995, when I first hunted in Tanzania, we had a Emmy Award winning video cameraman with us. He was hired him for the full season to film hunts, and as it turns out, this man was also one of the video photographers who filmed Peter Capstick's African hunting series of videos.

In a nutshell, he told me, under no uncertain terms, that Capstick was a physical wreck and a chronic alcoholic who had the DTs so bad that they had to prop him up with beer or two at the start of every morning, and that Capstick fumbled around in the bush, and did not demonstrate anything that would even remotely demonstrate familiarity, expertise or competence.

One would have to have rocks in their head to be proud or jealous of Crapstick.

Tendrams I think what you are trying to say, and this is a rather an old saying, is that we learn from experience and in your case you are intimating than learning from experience sets one up to be a better or safer person for it.

I have always found this concept rather silly as there are a million things in life that we do not or cannot learn from experience. For instance how do we now that holding a stick of dynamite in our hand and allowing the fuse to burn down will blow our hand off and most likely do enough damage to kill us? Do we need to experience this for ourselves? Of course not we listen to what someone tells us or deduce from our knowledge of what explosives can do to know that this is a very dangerous pastime.

I live in a snake free country so have no experience of snakes, have no experience of the effects of a snake bite but inherently know probably firstly from childhood reading that they are dangerous and can kill, obviously not all species but some. I have a natural aversion to them but have never come face to face with one.

Likewise with firearm handling and safety, I have never experienced an accident of any sort including an AD and have never seen the effects of a firearms accident but have a sound knowledge of safe handling of firearms under all conditions and know what the effects are likely to be if there was an accident.

Accidents with firearms never have to happen and only ever happen through careless use. IMO a person who has had an accident is more likely to have another, than one who has never had an accident.

Anyone who thinks because they have had a firearms accident that they will be safer from there on in or anyone who thinks accidents just happen or are inevitable are totally wrong.

I watched a fairly famous gun writer who is highly experienced in law enforcement, hunting and gun handling put a .300 WM round through the side of a travel trailer from the inside one day.

It was combination of familiarity, poor eye sight and a faulty safety all mixed into one. It can happen the part that saved anyone from injury other than a few damaged ear drums, was proper muzzle control.

If you don't think it can happen to you, you're kidding yourself. The last line of defense is to always have your muzzle pointed in a safe direction.

Over 10 years ago I was a Project Manager with the Corrections Department. The goal of the whole project was to reduce re-offending of people in NZ so that the crime rates dropped and also our social and financial costs reduced.

The actual stats were - 70% of first time offenders (theft, burglary, etc.) who were convicted by a court ended up offending again. The even more tragic stat was that over 90% of the re-offenders ended up in prison! Again over 90% of those who go to prison once, go there again.

On the other hand - the guys flying helicopters will tell you that it is only a matter of time before you have a crash. they also tell you that they learn a lot more from a crash experience than from actual training.

I think all that Tendrams is trying to say is that SOME will learn from their mistakes. Obviously, not everyone will.

quote:

originally posted by Trax:
Hard Experience seemed to teach that person nothing in the diciplines of safety & regard for people and equipment.
I could not imagine their 'blase' attitude being any different with say different equipment, like a firearm.

quote:

originally quoted by Texas Blue Devil:
Some people never learn from their mistakes, Accidental Discharges included.

quote:

originally posted by eagle27:
IMO a person who has had an accident is more likely to have another, than one who has never had an accident.

Anyone who thinks because they have had a firearms accident that they will be safer from there on in or anyone who thinks accidents just happen or are inevitable are totally wrong.

All of the above are very true statements in my experience. These type occurances are written off (usually by people too stupid to know better) as freak occurances or "accidents". When in all reality, they are caused by people that are missing a very important fundamental, and in reality, will probably metastasize elsewhere in the future. This should be of grave concern for some PH's hunting with particular people. But hey, anything to turn a buck, right?

This cracks me up. You all have to walk around with hot chambers so that you can save everyones lives when a charging beast comes barreling out of the forest. When it does happen we have documented cases of some shooting someone in the caravan instead. Then better still, some are hiring cameramen to document their feats of bravery and what is he armed with exactly? His saving grace is that he is at least behind the hero with the hot chamber. The poor tracker you send in after your episode of crappy shooting is the luckiest of all. He gets to stand between your loaded chamber and the beast you shot in the guts.