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I just read an older hunting rag where Wayne van Zwoll took an elephant with his .375 H&H magnum using the new Norma 350 grain PH ammunition. Even at 350 grains, isn't this a little light for the task? I've seen that .40 caliber/400 grains and above is pretty much the norm these days. No experience on elephant here at all but I can't imagine taking an elephant with anything but a .470 or .500 double after viewing a few videos on hunting them. Anyone here ever chase elephant with such a small caliber? Thanks, jfm | ||
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I think most PH's would rather have a client who shoots well with a .375 that has a .458 Lott they are scared of. with brain shots on elephant- hit the brain and it dies. Miss the brain and it runs away or over you - and I have seen precious little differnece in the speed they go down with whatever caliber you use. Todate I have only ever killed one elephant with something bigger than a 9,3. And have used 7,62 Nato a couple of times when that was all I had to hand.( when bad people with guns are the main threat you carry a semi auto 7,62 and make it work for elephant, buff etc as the need arises.- people are far more dangerous.) I have guided two children onto elephant- one came with a .375 that he was scared of and borrowed a .30-06. made a perfect one shot kill - side brain on a tuskless. The other used a ruger No 1 in 9,3x74 R- same result. Come to think of it...I have only ever needed to get involved on an elephant hunt when a man with an over powerful rifle has shot badly  Wayne made a perfect frontal brain shot as the elephant came uphill towards him in some really thick jess. one shot, end of story. Why did he need more gun? Bullet traversed the whole length of the elephant and came out the back hip...you could say he was overgunned  | |||
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JFM I am sure you will get plenty of responses to your question, however the 375 H&H has certainly been used widely for elephant. A great many PHs would use the 375 as a weapon of preference if hunting for themselves. I have a cz550 375 that has been one of my best buddies for nearly 20 years. | |||
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I'm trying to keep quiet! ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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How much bullshit, or rather elephant shit, came out the back end?  ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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375 gets it done, no problem. | |||
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Tell you more about August 15. I'm going to use a 375 H&H on a tuskless ele. Mad Dog | |||
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Is there anything that penetrates elephant better than a 300-350gr .375 solid? Steve "He wins the most, who honour saves. Success is not the test." Ryan "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Stalin Tanzania 06 Argentina08 Argentina Australia06 Argentina 07 Namibia Arnhemland10 Belize2011 Moz04 Moz 09 | |||
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I still never understand why bigger means better? I've shot 3 elephants bulls with a .375 RUM, with 270 gr. Barnes solids. Two buddies of mine have used my gun/bullet combo, while I filmed the hunts to do the same thing. All 5 bulls, fell dead with 1 shot! If we shot them with a bigger caliber/bullet, would they be more dead? | |||
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Truth be told, when one considers culling and sport hunting, is there any caliber that has been used to kill more elephants than the .375 H&H? I think it highly unlikely. | |||
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I'll bet lots were culled with the 404 Jeffery as it was a standby for many game departments. | |||
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If you buy Will's book you can look at the "penetration index" and see what calibers rate better. By the way , Will,, I enjoyed your books.. you can make more money, you can not make more time | |||
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More than "Enough Gun"!!!  | |||
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It "Will" work.  | |||
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The 375 is the legal minimum for Elephant, to your question yes it will work. Would it be my choice hunting Elephant however, no. | ||
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Harry Manners and Wally Johnson each took over 1000 ele with off the shelf .375 H&H's. Worked for them. Maybe they knew where to place the bullet, or just got lucky a few thousand times.  | |||
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Don't know how many of Johnson's trackers got squished but even Manners related one (or more?) of his trackers getting killed. Not much of a recommendation in my book. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Just out of curiousity, how many did they shoot and lose? SSR | |||
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Bill - I also would reckon had any of us shot over 1,000 elephants, regardless of caliber, we too likely would have had several close/disastrious calls. What do you recommend as a minimum for elephant? | |||
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The 416's. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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If memory serves Billy Pickering used a .577 and was beheaded, Robt. Foran used a heavy rifle and had a tracker/gunbearer killed as did Boyes while Neumann was pummeled and used a heavy rifle. I think it goes back to bullet placement/construction and confidence. Just my two cents worth. I'll be using a 450-400 3 1/4 with a 400 grainer myself. Dutch | |||
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Sadly many trackers and hunters have been killed when using the big bores too. | |||
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Yeah. That's it! Luck! | |||
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I've booked a tuskless cow elephant hunt and find this thread quite informative and interesting. Since I was in the artillery during my army days, I'm looking for a large capacity magazine rifle chambered in 8" howitzer round. Granted, the shells may be a little on the heavy side (200 lbs.) but what the heck, talk about power. If I can't find a custom gun maker that will make one, I guess I'm stuck with my .416 Winchester. | |||
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Be sure to have the hunt filmed. One of these days someone hunting elephant with a .375 is going to get some footage that will sell a bunch of DVDs. I will vote for bigger. Mike | |||
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Glad you enjoyed them. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Maybe I missed something, but it sure seems that a lot of videos have been sold that show clients flubbing things up using big-bores. I'm not saying that all these guys would have done any better using a 375, but I suspect that many would. I absolutely believe that many client-hunters believe that they can just "shoot" the elephant and their big rifle will take care of the rest. On the other hand, I believe the guys who use the smaller stuff(416 on down) focus a bit more on bullet placement. To answer the original question: I have killed an elephant bull with my 375H&H. One shot at 23 yards, side-brain, as he tried to leave the area. The 300gr Woodleigh exited and the elephant went down and dead as a doornail. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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I have also killed a number of Ele with lovely side brain shots, BUT they are not the concern. | |||
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I beg to differ. The original question was:
No doubt the 375 is pretty light for defensive work or dealing with a wounded elephant(that was what you were getting at right?), but my guess is that there would be fewer wounded elephant to follow-up if everyone used the 375. Just don't tell Will.  Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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"Adequate" is a word that goes along with "minimum" when discussing a .375 on Elephant. Neither word encourages confidence. "Good" calibers for Ele start at .416 IMO. I will take my next Ele in September and I will be carrying a .458Lott. And yes, I killed my first Ele with a .375. I then began searching for a bigger gun. All this crap about clients shooting better with a .375 is exactly that. If you can shoot a .375 you can certainly shoot a .416. The real problem is a lack of practice with the large bore rifle. I will fire upwards of 100 full house .458Lott loads prior to departing in September. Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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I believe the .375 to be more an all-around caliber. Good for everything until you get to game the size of elephant where it drops into the adequate range. I would have no problems shooting elephant at distance with a .375 as I know it has the penetration capabilities to do the job but I think they are mostly hunted at very close range and usually in thick brush. I believe I would prefer something more specialized for up close and personal on an animal the size of elephant. More specialized as in true large bore, 500 grains or more. Thank you for your responses as they are always informative. jfm | |||
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The only people I have met who have genuinely shot more than 1000 elephants used a 30-06 or 7,62 x54 for most of them... I supose you could say that the professionals used a .30 cal and the amateurs use .45 and up Not entirely true- all the top culling boys had a heavy rifle of some descrition to hand for the big bulls - but the only guys who used a .375 or bigger on cows in Zim parks were those of us still 'learning'. | |||
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Soon to be overtaken by the 375 Rooger, the new King of the 375's! | |||
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It worked for me (the .375H&H 300 gr solid) and I am on Buzz's first video. I doubt though that my hunt was the reason he's sold lots of DVD's. ~Ann   | |||
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