quote:

I resist these debates as I know they are mostly for fun….but here’s my take! Smiler

I, for one, am appreciative of you chiming in, for after all, who knows how many hundreds of intrepid elephant hunters may be saved by your words of wisdom. Nay, how many thousands may be saved?

I know that I, for one, will be calling the U.N. to nominate you for a humanitarian award. And not one of those obscure awards like they give to Kadafi and Mugabe.

Possibly the Nobel Peace Prize if it isn't going to be awarded to O in perpetuity. Maybe O can invite you in for a beer and a joint award ceremony.

I know that I, for one, will be sleeping easier tonight!

Thanks Fizz, if there is anything else that I can do for you just let me know.

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
....And Julius Malema is proof that a brain is an optional extra in humans...

Now you just gone and ruined my day. How can anyone bring that name up in the same conversation as elephants.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill C:
The challenge for a guy (self included!) using a “big boy bore” is to not think that just because they are shooting 500+ grain bullets that they can take low percentage brains shots. As has been stated the first shot is all about placement which requires knowing the location of the elephant’s brain at various angles, and resisting those with low probability of success. In my mind this is the argument for the .375. If a guy hunting elephant w/a big bore can PLACE the first shot on an elephant then he has the best of both worlds.

Bill
You nailed it!

Bill C...well said

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:

I personally like a higher velocity round for brain shots- purely subjective, but I have the impression that faster bullets hitting the front of the brain or just nicking the brain are more effective than slow ones. Watching those parks films of the culls, the .450 watts definately drops the bulls with more style than Kens .458. Also, the back legs don't always go first when they are running at full speed.

It is herasy to many African Hunters but a bit of velocity is useful on head shots. . . on any animal.



450 dakota with 450 grain NF FN at 2550 fps makes much larger than diameter sized hole through cow elephant skull.

Pink box shows 450 grain FN impact on cross cut of skull. Blue outline is where the brain was which had hemorage from not so near miss.

Andy

Shoot the biggest calibre rifle you feel most comfortable with.

While I have never travelled to Africa to hunt DG, I have shot a number of times with the .375 H&H and a .458 Win Mag. While the .458 certainly has a lot more noticable kick, I could shoot it quite accurately. If i had the choice between the 2 it would be the .458 - I like the confidence a 500gr 45cal projectile gives.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
I'll never understand the attitude about the PH being there to back up the hunter. I just don't think that way. My position has always been that I am the one that intends to kill the beast and there is the possibility that I might have to shoot the beastie off of the PH. There are Ele vids that clearly show the PH being backed-up by the client. Just ask my friend Ivan Carter.

If you haven't hunted Ele then you really don't belong in the conversation because you haven't been amongst them. If you cannot learn to shoot enough gun then perhaps you should't be hunting ELE. Please stick to PG or squirrels. JMO

Yes sir,

I feel the same way. You should be shooting something that is capable of handling any situation for the area you are hunting.

But the .375 is capable. You just need to shoot straight! Isn't that the whole point? If not, aren't you just saying I'm not capable of shooting straight, but I am capable of carrying something big enough to compensate for my inadequacy!


Just being facetious!

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
For all the baloney spewed by PH's about the adequacy of the .375 H&H, I don't know one that uses one.

I'm with you Will, you know that, but PH advice on this subject is entirely predictable and understandable.

Every PH with much experience can tell at least one, and probably several, true life stories about Joe Average client hunter who showed up with a howitzer that he couldn't shoot for shite.

The .375 is best for those whose rifle skills are no better than the lowest common denominator.

Wow. That's the Wally Johnson smackdown of the weekend.

I would like to ask a modified version of the original poster's question, directed at the PH's in the crowd.

Here is the scenario: You have a client on his second African safari, hunting his first elephant and using a .375. You and your client have discussed the details of the hunt, and he has indicated that he wants to get close...no shooting at 50 yards. He also prefers not to have you "collaborate" on the shot. You have explained to him that the final call on whether or not you shoot is going to be yours, and he understands this.

Will his choice of caliber influence your decision to shoot or not shoot? Would the use of a larger caliber cause you to delay your back-up shot a bit to see the results of the client's shot? Also, would the caliber choice influence you to avoid stalking as close as possible?

I realize that there are many other factors to consider here, i.e. the client's shooting ability and overall level of competence/nervousness/goofiness, and maybe other considerations as well...but how much weight would the use of a .375 as opposed to, say, a .458 or larger carry in the equation?

Hopefully this isn't considered a thread highjack...my apologies if it is.

John

quote:

Originally posted by jsl3170:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
For all the baloney spewed by PH's about the adequacy of the .375 H&H, I don't know one that uses one.

I'm with you Will, you know that, but PH advice on this subject is entirely predictable and understandable.

Every PH with much experience can tell at least one, and probably several, true life stories about Joe Average client hunter who showed up with a howitzer that he couldn't shoot for shite.

The .375 is best for those whose rifle skills are no better than the lowest common denominator.

Wow. That's the Wally Johnson smackdown of the weekend.

But there is also a difference between the professional who was hunting ivory himself for a living, another who is/was actively involved in herd culling, or one who is now a PH guiding clients...

Does anyone have a sense of humor anymore?? And Wally Johnson was a PH.

Whenever I read one of these threads---which caliber for ______, or which is better, the 458 WM or Lott, I'm reminded of the line from George Carlin...

"Have you ever noticed? Anyone driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a moron."