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416Tanzan,

Thanks.
I was forced into it by what I now believe to have been chamber rings in the factory-chambered .458 Win.
Not my doing.
Just trying to make lemonade out of a lemon.
tu2
Rip ...
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Picture of 416Tanzan
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quote:
Originally posted by RIP:
416Tanzan,

Thanks.
I was forced into it by what I now believe to have been chamber rings in the factory-chambered .458 Win.
Not my doing.
Just trying to make lemonade out of a lemon.
tu2
Rip ...


That lemonade looks like it comes with a little Tequila. beer
It really does look like a great cartridge, even if you had your arm twisted. It should send the 400GSC out at a good clip.


+-+-+-+-+-+-+

"A well-rounded hunting battery might include:
500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" --
Conserving creation, hunting the harvest.
 
Posts: 4251 | Registered: 10 June 2009Reply With Quote
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Lemonade to move on to page 67, for THE MISSION:

 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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The factory barrel lug:

 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Barrel lug bedding and crossbolting:

 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Primary/action recoil lug bedding:

 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Hidden crossbolt between magazine well and trigger well:

 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Timney trigger:

 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Ha! Page 67!
Scope bases readied with 8X40s and J-B Weld, rifle weight dry and empty like this is 8 lbs 6oz.



There's no going back to .458 Win. for Woodie, but there is for me!
tu2
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Picture of 416Tanzan
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quote:
Originally posted by RIP:
Barrel lug bedding and crossbolting:



Exactly.

I assume that there is a hidden crossbolt under the epoxy ramp on the right side of the picture. It does wonders for stock longevity and shooter confidence. Looks like you are ready to put it through some paces. We'll be watching and it should be interesting. 458 Win/Ruger.

I briefly flirted with the idea of a 458 Lott about ten years ago, before getting another 416 Rigby. A 458 Win/Ruger would have been quite inexpensive before the Rugers and CZ started a considerable climb in price.


+-+-+-+-+-+-+

"A well-rounded hunting battery might include:
500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" --
Conserving creation, hunting the harvest.
 
Posts: 4251 | Registered: 10 June 2009Reply With Quote
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Look in good Ron !
tu2


Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle."
 
Posts: 1934 | Location: Eastern Central Alaska | Registered: 15 July 2014Reply With Quote
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Is it just a shadow or is the bedding cracked in the upper left corner.
 
Posts: 18077 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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Picture of 416Tanzan
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quote:
Originally posted by RIP:
Lemonade to move on to page 67, for THE MISSION:



Those pictures are pretty nice.
They actually look very close to the 500AccRel, where everything is just fattened up about .057"-.052"



Left is an unfired 500 AccRel Nyati, right is a 375 Ruger for comparison. (Firing helps to define the shoulder edges a bit.) It's a 'his' and 'hers'. Nice, huh?


+-+-+-+-+-+-+

"A well-rounded hunting battery might include:
500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" --
Conserving creation, hunting the harvest.
 
Posts: 4251 | Registered: 10 June 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
Look in good Ron !
tu2


CTF,

You do have such a way with words, for THE MISSION.
tu2
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Is it just a shadow or is the bedding cracked in the upper left corner.


p dog shooter,

No cracks. This is a great opportunity to zoom in on the former .458 Win. now a .458 WinRuger to expain herself/himself, for THE MISSION:



Are you referring to the crease in the epoxy at the red arrow?
It is upstream from recoil, just a small void.
IIRC, the lighter grey Steelbed dates back to about 1991,
by Bill Alexander in Tallahassee, FL, when Woodelle was a safe queen.

The darker grey Marinetex is from Rusty McGee's recent handiwork.
I asked him to hide an allthread crossbolt behind the barrel lug as I probably was not smart enough to ask for one in 1991.
tu2
Rip ...
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Here is the old primary action lug bedding:

 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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The web between magazine and trigger wells seen from bottom view of stock:

 
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Woodelle before gender-reassignment:

 
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... sigh ...
tu2
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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416Tanzan,

Your 500 AccRel Nyati is a beauty.
Maybe the .458 WinRuger will "grow on me."



But I refuse to carry a man-purse like some Blaser user!
tu2
Rip ...
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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tu2
Rip ...
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
But I refuse to carry a man-purse like some Blaser user!


The 375 Ruger, pictured above beside the 500 AccRel Nyati, is for a woman's purse, Lady Tanzan herself. Here she is, all 110 lbs of her, firing her 375 at the bench:


+-+-+-+-+-+-+

"A well-rounded hunting battery might include:
500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" --
Conserving creation, hunting the harvest.
 
Posts: 4251 | Registered: 10 June 2009Reply With Quote
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Picture of 416Tanzan
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quote:
Originally posted by RIP:
416Tanzan,

Your 500 AccRel Nyati is a beauty.
Maybe the .458 WinRuger will "grow on me."



... tu2
Rip ...


We can talk about it further after you gather some data.
The 458 WinRuger has a nice pedigree.


+-+-+-+-+-+-+

"A well-rounded hunting battery might include:
500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" --
Conserving creation, hunting the harvest.
 
Posts: 4251 | Registered: 10 June 2009Reply With Quote
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RIP, that .458 Ruger cartridge looks great. Have been pondering building one for a while now. With a .458 Win throat, my calculations suggest that top end loads should pick up about 100 fps over the Win at same COL. With slightly slower powders than are suitable for the Win Mag, 500 gr @ 2400fps should be possible with a 3.6" COL.

One thing that has given me pause pursuing a project like yours, RIP, is that Ruger basic brass seems to no longer be available. I note your solution with .416 Ruger ammo, which can be initially expensive... Perhaps with the release of the new .300 Hornady Precision Rifle Cartridge, which is basically a .30 caliber Ruger case, brass will drop in price. What are you going to use for dies?
 
Posts: 118 | Location: SC | Registered: 10 March 2017Reply With Quote
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So, this is how we are going to get past 458 pages on this thread?
Trot out something about the .458 WinRuger to get some action?
Unintended Consequences?


(Woodelle/Blind Justice taken hostage by Woodie)

Or method to my madness?

bcelliott,

I had heard of the 6.5 Hornady PRC, a shortened .375 Ruger case, IIRC,
but a .300 Ruger PRC??? Please do tell more.

I will look into Hornady dies for the .458 WinRuger.
They worked well for .395 Ruger Max, .375/404 Jeffery Saeed of 2012, and 12.7 x 68mm Magnum, custom dies.
Redding did my .395 Tatanka and .500 Mbogo dies, though they quit making +50-cal since then (2007-2008).
CH4D did an excellent job on the 400/.395 NE 3" Aboriginal dies (10.03 x 74mmR).
All good.
Until I get dies I will see if I can get by with FL sizing in .416 Ruger
and necking up in stages with maybe a .423 Dakota expander in a .450 Dakota die and a universal .375-to-.458 Neck expander,
or a cut down .460 Wby die, ground short at the base of the die.
I already have that from previous madness.

As long as I do not bulge the shoulder with a too-vigorous, single-pass neck-up I should be OK.
Lubricating the inside of the necks with a graphite dip might make single stroke neck-up possible.
Annealing necks before neck-up ought to help too.
I have bulged some shoulders on the few feed dummies I hastily tried with a single pass and no preliminaries.

A little pocket plate would be nice to get the magazine capacity back to 3 down in the box.
Duane Wiebe total drop box would be nice, but would require a new stock,
or just letting the drop box hang below a B&C Medalist stock,
like I did on the .500 Bateleur.



Even Saeed is "practical" enough to do similar with his Dakota M76 African in .375/404J.


tu2
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Alrighty then, wookie76 brought the news to Medium Bore Forum. I gotta get out of the Big Bore Forum more often.
The new SAAMI 300 PRC is like the .458 WinRuger necked down to .308 Wink
but with a Weatherbyesque throat like the 6.5 Creedmoor has.
tu2
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Another way to look at the 458 Ruger/Win is.
Maybe a guy could get a full 2400 fps with a 400 gr bullet from a 16 or 18 " barrel . tu2

Boy, then We'de be loggin !


Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle."
 
Posts: 1934 | Location: Eastern Central Alaska | Registered: 15 July 2014Reply With Quote
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quote:
Unintended Consequences?


A book that every body that owns firearms should read.

And thanks for the extra bedding pictures.

Is bedding compound so expensive that they just used dabs of it.

I tend to bed with a bit more than that amount.
 
Posts: 18077 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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A nice thing about the 300 Precision Rifle Cartridge (based on 375Ruger with the shoulder set back a tad) is that it will work great for a 338, too.

The 375 Ruger had the shoulder too far up to allow for a simple neck down. But the 300 PRC looks like a neck expansion to .338" will leave a neck of around .333". Just about perfect. Just saying. Whistling


+-+-+-+-+-+-+

"A well-rounded hunting battery might include:
500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" --
Conserving creation, hunting the harvest.
 
Posts: 4251 | Registered: 10 June 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by p dog shooter:
quote:
Unintended Consequences?


A book that every body that owns firearms should read.

Amen!

And thanks for the extra bedding pictures.

Is bedding compound so expensive that they just used dabs of it.

Rusty has filled my barrel channels and everywhere else inside a stock, at times. I guess he is getting tired having to re-order epoxy so often.
At least he is not allergic to it like one gunsmith I knew in Alaska.


I tend to bed with a bit more than that amount.

tu2
Rip ...
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
Another way to look at the 458 Ruger/Win is.

CTF, Old Man, that is a bit careless of you to call the .458 WinRuger such an impertinence as "458 Ruger/Win." One too many shots of Buffalo Trace? Wink

Maybe a guy could get a full 2400 fps with a 400 gr bullet from a 16 or 18 " barrel . tu2

Boy, then We'de be loggin !

At 2600 fps from a 24" barrel,
2400 fps from a 16" barrel might be about right.
Surely from an 18" barrel.
tu2
Rip ...
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
A nice thing about the 300 Precision Rifle Cartridge (based on 375Ruger with the shoulder set back a tad) is that it will work great for a 338, too.

If you just increase the neck diameter by .030" (.338 - .308 = .030)
from .341" (as on the 300 PRC) to .371" (like used on the 338 RUM), the neck length increases from .308" long (300 PRC) to .334" long (338 PRC).
Good enough.
Same headspace gage/gauge for both.


The 375 Ruger had the shoulder too far up to allow for a simple neck down. But the 300 PRC looks like a neck expansion to .338" will leave a neck of around .333". Just about perfect. Just saying.

Yep, it was 0.334" on the RCBS Cartridge Designer, 'puter.
Whistling

In my pencil below, for those in Rio Linda, "PSFB" stands for Parallel-Sided-Free-Bore, and the numbers following that notation
are the diameter and length of that parallel-sided free-bore.
Leade is denoted by the leade angle (semi-angle) and,
for the Leade-Only throats, the diameter on the chamber's case mouth chamfer where it starts the taper into the rifling.

The 264 Ripmoor has the same throat as on the 6.5 Creedmoor.
The .458 WinRuger has the same throat as on the .458 Winchester Magnum.
Just a repeat for those in Rio Linda.



I have a .395 Ruger Max also, uses same headspace gage as .375 Ruger, .416 Ruger, and .458 WinRuger.
The .395 Ruger Max throat:
PSFB: .3966" diameter, .2000" length
Leade: 1*30'00"
Neck length on the reamer is .3390" min., brass neck length 0.3220" max.

The 264 Ripmoor shoulder is set back not quite so much as on the 300 PRC, designed to give it exactly .264" neck length at maximum brass length of 2.590".
The 300 PRC was designed to give exactly .308" neck length at maximum brass length of 2.580".

And Hornady made the 300 PRC LongCOL compared to the .375 Ruger:
3.575" versus 3.340".

So, 3.575" is the COL shown for the .458 WinRuger here.
But we all know it can be loaded to at least 3.780" COL.

The 338 PRC and the 300 PRC will make great chasers for the .458 WinRuger beer to chase a shot of Buffalo Trace.
tu2
Rip ...
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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The difference between the 458 Win Mag and the 458 WinRuger appears to be that instead of stepping down in diameter of the belt, the Ruger continues at the belt diameter, with slight taper until it gets to the neck where it narrows to the bullet diameter. Considering the vagaries of present day manufacturing, I'm wondering about the suitability of swaging the body of 458 WinMag cases out to the belt diameter. If this was an option, given the extensive availability of belted cases, it would solve the unavailable/discontinued aspect of several large cartridges. The remainder of sizing operations (increasing body diameter and necking to create a shoulder) would be easily done.


I'm wondering how much of an increase in case capacity would result from such an operation.
 
Posts: 1421 | Location: WA St, USA | Registered: 28 August 2016Reply With Quote
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quote:
But the 300 PRC looks like a neck expansion to .338" will leave a neck of around .333". Just about perfect. Just saying.

Yep, it was 0.334" on the RCBS Cartridge Designer, 'puter.


I tend to do a fast figure, on the fly in the meat computer. So thanks for the check.

Yes, those PRC cartridges would make a nice chaser to either of the Rugers 416 or 458 and/or the WinMag.

It's all good.


+-+-+-+-+-+-+

"A well-rounded hunting battery might include:
500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" --
Conserving creation, hunting the harvest.
 
Posts: 4251 | Registered: 10 June 2009Reply With Quote
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416Tanzan,
Your meat was pretty close to the RCBS 'puter.
0.3336" neck length rounds up to 0.334".
tu2
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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With the longer brass of the .458 WinRuger, rounding to the nearest thou,
the leade-only throat starts with a base diameter of 0.467" not 0.469" as on the .458 Win.
And the bullet free travel is reduced from 0.6725"
to only 0.5575".
This assumes a chamber length of 2.600" for the .458 WinRuger, with maximum brass length of 2.580".
The chamber length of the .458 Winchester Magnum is 2.520", 0.020" longer than maximum brass length of 2.500".

All of this is with the rechamber of an existing .458 Winchester Magnum using a .375 Ruger reamer and a .458 Lott reamer.
Eeker
The .458 WinRuger has a tighter throat than the .458 Win.!
rotflmo
Oh well, a purpose made reamer and a virgin .458 barrel could fix that, to specs on drawing above.
tu2
Rip ...
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Ray B,

I refuse to go there.
More brass for the .416 Ruger or .375 Ruger basic brass will surely be available down the road.
tu2
Rip ...
 
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