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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Lot # 1327
Estimate 800.00 - 1,200.00 USD
Lead RUGER NO. 1 FALLING BLOCK SINGLE SHOT RIFLE.
Description
Cal. 458 Win. Mag. S#. 130-07126. Bbl. 24". Pre warning bbl. w/ banded ramp front sight w/ white bead. Quarter rib w/ flip up rear sight. Bbl. band sling swivel. Checkered Alex Henry forend. Pistol grip stock w/ Ruger grip cap & Kick-Eez black recoil pad; unaltered stock, 14 1/4" LOP. UNATTACHED ACCESSORIES: printed Ruger No. 1 instruction manual. Original Ruger red pad w/ screws; rough edge damage to red rubber especially at heel. CONDITION: metal retains 98% of its original blue w/ some faint sharp edge wear. Forend is sound w/ a few minor handling marks & sharp checkering. Nicely figured buttstock has a few handling marks w/ sharp checkering. Bright bore. (18-4885/BT). MODERN. $800-1,200.
https://poulinantiques.hibid.c...-shot-rifle-?cpage=7
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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That Ruger No.1 could be considered the ultimate .458-caliber sporting rifle.
It laughs at the SAAMI-restricted, bastardized, .458 Lott which surely must cause Jack Lott to spin in his grave.
It deserves some engraving and gold inlay and a leather-covered pad.
tu2
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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xausa has measured some Newton rifles chambered for Newton cartridges, many thanks for this:

I did a little measuring with my Sinclair Seating Depth Gauge and here are the results:

The maximum OAL for the .256 Newton is 3.40”. The chamber throat would allow the bullet to be seated out to an OAL of 3.488”

The maximum OAL for the .30 Newton is 3.35”. The chamber throat would allow the bullet to be seated out to an OAL of 3.451”.

In both cases, a bullet seated to the correct OAL would have a jump of about .100” before reaching the lands. I don’t know whether this is enough to qualify as “free bore”.

In both cases boat tail bullets with secant ogives were used. In neither case would there be very much full diameter bullet to go in the case mouth for a firm seat.


That is good enough for me to say that the few measured Newton throats that I have been informed of
are not of the "coned-up" variety like a .458 WIN.

Must have been inspired by the likes of the 10.75x68mm Mauser performance with long-leade throat,
and the practices of H&H "coning-up" the throats of old BPCR rifles to make them into smokeless-capable "Express" rifles,
etc.
Then there was Roy Weatherby who had some success with long throats over 10 years before the .458 WIN.
tu2
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by RIP:
Craig Boddington defeated Denyin'Ross
in one neck-banging tussle.
Craig spoke most highly of the 450/400 NE 3" (originally created
as the .400 S. Jeffery)
which was a shooting firearm before any other
Nitro Express existed.
It was a single-shot rifle with a Farquharson action.
Craig advised Hornady and Ruger that the 3-incher was the way to go.
Denyin' Ross wanted the 450/400 NE "Magnum" 3.25".
Denyin' Ross Would have all believe that the 3.25-incher was superior in some way.
He denied the .400 S. Jeffery just like he denied the .458 WIN.
Well, we all know how that has turned out
on both of those denials.
Try not to think about the victor getting the "spoils,"
as if Boddington was a bull giraffe and Seyfried was another.
Some things are hard to unthink.
tu2
Rip ...


People like Don Heath and Craig Boddington, who previously, were very outspoken about their dislike of the .458 have now called a truce with it. Why? Because there is nothing to criticise.. and there hasn't been for some time. Don Heath states that today there is nothing wrong with the .458 and Craig Boddington credits the .458 "as the gun that saved Africa".

But I think that Craig sums up the .458 nicely with the following post:

"Even though (years ago) Winchester boldly dropped the .458 Winchester Magnum, it needs to stay. It is still the least expensive option for a true big bore, and despite the current popularity of .458-bashing, it is absolutely adequate for the world's largest game." And I couldn't agree more.


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ColdBore 1.0 - the ballistics/reloading software solution
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Posts: 740 | Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina | Registered: 14 January 2001Reply With Quote
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Gustavo,

The Watcher speaks!
Excellent homily. Plumb spiritually enlightening!

quote:
Don Heath


Words on the "All-Around Rifle" that he concluded does not exist, but several come close:

All Round Rifle
'The "All Round Rifle" And Other Slippery Shibboleths'
by Don Heath
"The question as to the most efficient and generally useful rifles for shooting the various kinds of game is a wide one, and a matter upon which it is difficult to attempt to give entirely unprejudiced advice, seeing that the very fact of one's having formed an opinion implies a certain prejudice in favour of the style of weapon upon the efficiency of which he bases those opinions" F Vaughan Kirby (In the Haunts of Wild Game, Blackwood, 1906)

https://www.shakariconnection....all-round-rifle.html

If you are sturdy enough yourself, the .458 WIN will do nicely to do the most with the least fuss.

Bolt action primary: Good ol' Four Five Eight Winner.
Single-shot secondary: For display of prowess at one-shot kills (Practice speed-reloads!). animal
Double rifle: "If you are feeling wealthy." To paraphrase Dirty Harry, "Do ya feel wealthy, punk?" rotflmo
And if you want to be persnickety about using a flanged cartridge only, in the single-shot or double rifles:
.45-100 Sharps-WT the .458 WIN Twin.
It does the most with the least fuss, just like its twin brother cartridge.
tu2
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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The .458 WIN denier is a clinger to a slippery shibboleth. Shibbolethers!

More from Shakari Connection, for THE MISSION.

'The .458 As A PH's Weapon' by Brian Marsh



Are two fast shots from a double better in our more open bushveld conditions than four slower but reasonably fast shots from a magazine rifle? Photo by Dave Christensen
https://www.shakariconnection....8-caliber-rifle.html
tu2
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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All this 458 stuff sort of got my blood flowing again and what a beautiful day in N. Texas, Sunny and 65-70F.
Threw together some loads last night and went out to do some testing with my Oehler 35.
Found some old factory fodder in my closet and tested that first.
Browning safari graded: 24" barrel.
All 5 shot strings

1)Federal cape shock 400 gr. Trophy bonded
ADV. VEL 2380 FPS: Oehler Chrono: 2290 FPS

2) Hornady super perf. 500 gr. DGX
ADV. VEL 2260 FPS: Oehler Crono: 2123 FPS

3)Handload 73 GR A2230: Win brass: Fed 215
500 gr. Swift A frame: Oehler Chrono 2180 FPS

4)Handload 73.5 gr. A2230 Win Brass: Fed 215
500 gr. Swift A frame: Oehler Chrono 2203 FPS

No extraction issues: Shoulder is a little tender... The Browning safari is a lightweight 458.
I want to try some 450 TSX's and 450 North Forks in the hear future.

EZ
 
Posts: 3051 | Location: Texas | Registered: 06 January 2009Reply With Quote
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Brian Marsh started his PH career in 1967 with a .458 WIN custom rifle made on a re-barreled .350 Rigby by his local gunsmith buddy in Rhodesia.
Prior to that he had used a "Birminghammish" .470 NE double for elephant culling and such on about a million acres.
He was never disappointed with the .458 WIN, stuck with it throughout his PH days.
Why not? All the client hunters left their unused .458 WIN factory loads with him, and he never had to buy a box of ammo himself. animal


Bottom: .458, 480gr by Woodleigh. Centre: .458, 500gr by Winchester - note excellent jacket thickness. Top: .458, 500gr by Remington. Photo by Richard Harland.

Marsh does say that the 500-grain FMJ "solid" from Winchester was superb.
He relates that a factory rep from Winchester admitted to a problem with early ammo.
Supposedly long since rectified by 1967, according to Marsh,
I am guessing it was caused by the same bean-counting, idiot-savants that killed the Pre-'64 Winchester M70!


.458 bullets recovered from elephants, fired by four different rifles. The majority are Winchester factory loads, a few are Remingtons, used about 1965-1968. Note how few are deformed and none have split or broken open. The Winchester bullets could hardly be improved upon for elephants. Photo by Richard Harland.

I do believe those were dead elephants that the bullets were recovered from.
tu2
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Outstanding! Thanks for THE MISSION support, eezidr. clap

quote:
Originally posted by eezridr:
All this 458 stuff sort of got my blood flowing again and what a beautiful day in N. Texas, Sunny and 65-70F.
Threw together some loads last night and went out to do some testing with my Oehler 35.
Found some old factory fodder in my closet and tested that first.
Browning safari graded: 24" barrel.
All 5 shot strings

1)Federal cape shock 400 gr. Trophy bonded
ADV. VEL 2380 FPS Oehler Chrono: 2290 FPS

2) Hornady super perf. 500 gr. DGX
ADV. VEL 2260 FPS Oehler Crono: 2123 FPS

3)Handload 73 GR A2230: Win brass: Fed 215
500 gr. Swift A frame: Oehler Chrono 2180 FPS

4)Handload 73.5 gr. A2230 Win Brass: Fed 215
500 gr. Swift A frame: Oehler Chrono 2203 FPS

No extraction issues: Shoulder is a little tender... The Browning safari is a lightweight 458.
I want to try some 450 TSX's and 450 North Forks in the hear future.

EZ

tu2
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by RIP:
Gustavo,

The Watcher speaks!
Excellent homily. Plumb spiritually enlightening!

quote:
Don Heath


Words on the "All-Around Rifle" that he concluded does not exist, but several come close:

All Round Rifle
'The "All Round Rifle" And Other Slippery Shibboleths'
by Don Heath
"The question as to the most efficient and generally useful rifles for shooting the various kinds of game is a wide one, and a matter upon which it is difficult to attempt to give entirely unprejudiced advice, seeing that the very fact of one's having formed an opinion implies a certain prejudice in favour of the style of weapon upon the efficiency of which he bases those opinions" F Vaughan Kirby (In the Haunts of Wild Game, Blackwood, 1906)

https://www.shakariconnection....all-round-rifle.html

If you are sturdy enough yourself, the .458 WIN will do nicely to do the most with the least fuss.

Bolt action primary: Good ol' Four Five Eight Winner.
Single-shot secondary: For display of prowess at one-shot kills (Practice speed-reloads!). animal
Double rifle: "If you are feeling wealthy." To paraphrase Dirty Harry, "Do ya feel wealthy, punk?" rotflmo
And if you want to be persnickety about using a flanged cartridge only, in the single-shot or double rifles:
.45-100 Sharps-WT the .458 WIN Twin.
It does the most with the least fuss, just like its twin brother cartridge.
tu2
Rip ...


Jedi Master, Obi-Wan Kenobi , Watcher of the Mission!

Should Craig and Don have listened to you...those heretics would have chosen their words differently before speaking wrong of the Almighty animal


------------------------------------------------------------------------
ColdBore 1.0 - the ballistics/reloading software solution
http://www.patagoniaballistics.com
 
Posts: 740 | Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina | Registered: 14 January 2001Reply With Quote
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Full Nitro Express ballistics from a Ruger No.1 .45-70 Govt. is just a handjob away.
Jack Lott did his .458 Lott in the beginning by handjob on .458 WIN rifles.
Here's his drawing of the reamer:



And a cleaned-up copy of the above:

 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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The .45-100 SWT can equal the .458 Lott-LJB (LIKE JACK BUILT),
and thus exceeds the SAAMI-Restricted .458 Lott-Not-LJB.

The 1-3/8" dimension in the drawing below,
by Dave Manson,
is a distance that is longer than the actual leade of the chamber,
because that leade-cutting portion of the reamer tapers down to smaller than the pilot, which is smaller than bore diameter:



To review, the Winchester genius of circa 1955 was old hat for H&H by 1903:

**************************************************
**************************************************
Wal Winfer, Vol.5 (The Holland & Holland volume) pp. 165-168:
**************************************************
The .400 Bore ...

Hollands Test the .450/400 3-1/4 Cartridge

This cartridge saw early nitro testing by Hollands
but it does not seem to have been too popular with
them in other than black powder break open single shots
and rifles built on the Field action.
A series of of nitro for black powder loads were worked out
in the late 1890's, but nothing else seems known;
Hollands were working on both the .450/400 2-3/8" and the 3-1/4" length cases at that time.

We first meet the .450/400 3-1/4" cartridge in two single shot rifles,
ordered by a Captain A. Wilson, spaced over a five year period
built to Holland's patent.
The first rifle, serial No. 19682, was completed 1/3/98 and chambered,
judging from the date, for a black powder cartridge.
The rifle was returned to the factory for testing and re-sighting
for a light nitro load. This work was finished October 19th, 1901 ...

Captain Wilson's second rifle, a full nitro .450/400, No. 24198,
was tested on November 7th, 1903, when velocities were taken
after the breech was archer coned up, i.e., free bored ...
From the remaining records it seems obvious that Holland's only interest
in the .400 bore for single shots centered around developing Captain Wilson's special cartridge.
We do not see it again in falling blocks, although some doubles were produced in .450/400 nitro
and no doubt re-barreling would have been undertaken ...
*****************************************************************************

Thus, "coning-up" the breech of a rifle was the H&H lingo for "free-boring" the chamber throat
of a strong-enough-barreled BPCR's for "full nitro" loads,
giving it a leade that was wider at its start and longer in length,
i.e., a more acute, more gradually tapering leade angle.
tu2
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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LOVIN THE BIG BANG

BOBS BACK AT IT AGAIN THIS MORNING

https://bigborefan.wordpress.c...cs-a-closer-look-p3/


WANT TO LEARN HOW TO LOAD AND SHOOT YOUR 458 CLICK ON THE LINK ABOVE -- REAL DATA --


Anyway it matters not, because my experience always has been that of---- a loss of snot and enamel on both sides of the 458 Win----
 
Posts: 1016 | Location: SLC Utah  | Registered: 13 February 2009Reply With Quote
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Thanks for that, stradling.
Keeping up with Bob's blog is like studying the scriptures, here at THE MISSION.
My next rifle to be named for Bob the Apostle:



She will be christened "Bobbee Boom-Boom Ruger."

"Boom-Boom" is for the two primary types of ammo: .45-70 Govt 2.1" and .45-100 SWT 2.6".
Not for the sound of two quick shots,
or at least not until I get practiced-up on the quick reload. Big Grin
She can fire off-the-shelf .45-70 Govt. "light loads" both cast and jacketed,
Bob's .45-70 LT heavy loads,
and .458 Full Nitro with .45-100 SWT.
tu2
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Same number of characters in each barrel stamping:
.45-100 SWT
.45-70 GOVT
The rifle will have to be marked with both, one above the other: Boom-Boom Big Grin
I grin at the thought of not X-ing-out the .45-70 Govt.
Might have to get a professional engraver to do the Boom-Boom. Big Grin



Some loads with powder-coated, grease-grooved, or paper-patched cast bullets, 550-grainers at 1500 fps or more from the 2.6" case, possibly accurate?

The 1:20" twist will be better for cast bullets,
and seems to be OK for the 500-grain TSX if the bullet is moving fast enough.
2300 fps will surely not be necessary in this 7.25-pound rifle with 22" barrel.
Maybe just 2250 fps. Ouch.

A lot of BPCR throats for paper-patched bullets are like the forcing cone on a shotgun chamber.
The throat is a leade as wide as the case mouth of the chamber,
no 45-degree chamfer-down to the a start of throat leade,
just a 5-degree angle of leade being all there is from neck diameter to bore diameter.
That is way wider though more abrupt in angle than the leade of the .458 WIN.

Finally a real reason to paper-patch some bullets, I must procrastinate no more,
for THE MISSION.
Similar to that newspaper headline quoted by Chief Lone Watie in THE OUTLAW JOSEY WALES:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRX6hSGeZs4
"Indians vow to endeavor to not procrastinate."
Josey Wales: "Huh?"



The Chief's advice to Bobbee Boom-Boom:



tu2
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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RIP
Why not a 458 Win throated 45-70 reamed out to 45-90? You could still use 45-70 ammo.


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
 
Posts: 27533 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by boom stick:
RIP
Why not a 458 Win throated 45-70 reamed out to 45-90? You could still use 45-70 ammo.


boom stick,

Thank you for THE MISSION support.
Are you talking about using a .45-90 2.4" instead of a .45-100 2.6"?

Bob has already done the .45-70 Long Throat with a 2.1" .45-70 Govt. case plus 0.3" length of extra COL.
That is effectively a .45-90 2.4".

Admittedly it is not ideal to fire the shortCOL .45-70 Govt in my .45-100 SWT 2.6",
but it can be done with any jacketed-bullet loads without too much mischief.
I want primarily to use the long case as the first Boom in Boom-Boom.

The 2.6" case holds 97.5-grains H2O.
This can be reduced to same capacity as a 2.5" .458 WIN case (94.5 grains H2O) by inserting a cardboard wad of 0.070" thickness.
The throating is identical for the belted and the flanged chamberings.
Loads for the .458 WIN LongCOL 2.5" can thus be used for same ballistics in the .45-100 SWT 2.6",
if the rifle and the shooter can survive them.

How would your suggestion be better?


tu2
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by RIP:
Thanks for that, stradling.
Keeping up with Bob's blog is like studying the scriptures, here at THE MISSION.
My next rifle to be named for Bob the Apostle:

She will be christened "Bobbee Boom-Boom Ruger."

"Boom-Boom" is for the two primary types of ammo: .45-70 Govt 2.1" and .45-100 SWT 2.6".
Not for the sound of two quick shots,
or at least not until I get practiced-up on the quick reload. Big Grin
She can fire off-the-shelf .45-70 Govt. "light loads" both cast and jacketed,
Bob's .45-70 LT heavy loads,
and .458 Full Nitro with .45-100 SWT.
tu2
Rip ...


Had a Ruger N°1-H Tropical...obvioulsy chambered for the Almighty (in case you ask...the .458WM what else???) what a beauty, what a performer!!!

Mine was the blued model, not as purty though as this one in SS with the greyish laminate stock. Love her skin tone! tu2


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ColdBore 1.0 - the ballistics/reloading software solution
http://www.patagoniaballistics.com
 
Posts: 740 | Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina | Registered: 14 January 2001Reply With Quote
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Ah, yes, I longingly recall my first girlfriend, a blued and walnut Ruger No.1 .458 WIN!
I let her slip away! CRYBABY



In my days of ignorance I thought the SAAMI .458 Lott was better so I got a factory Ruger No.1 so chambered, but soon corrected her
to .450 NE 3.25"-Thin-Rim.




She is fully 2 pounds heavier and has a 2" longer, fatter barrel than Bobbee Boom-Boom:



Bobbee's barrel stamping will be prettier.
tu2
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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I learned a lesson with this 20"-barreled .475 Linebaugh:



Bobbee Boom-Boom's quarter rib will be removed, degreased, and J-B-Welded back onto the barrel.
Same was done to above rifle after I shot it loose with scope mounted.



Also learned: Do not use Warne-Ruger rings.
The OEM Ruger rings are best.
Make sure they are properly installed and check tightness of main mounting nuts FREQUENTLY.
tu2
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Buffalo Arms Company! https://www.buffaloarms.com/

Cowboy toys galore!

Remember that anything a .45-100 SWT can do in a single-shot or DR, so can a .458 WIN in a bolt-action rifle, or a single-shot, or a DR. Smiler
Barrel twist and barrel length are considerations for fine tuning loads for gunning fun.
Quigley-style plinkers and meat-getters are to be explored further to show how fun and flexible the .458 WIN can be,
Re-chambering .45-70 Govt rifles to a .458 WIN equivalent is a great boon to THE MISSION, and hence, for the benefit of man.
Smokeless versus BP loads, paper-patched versus grease-grooved, or powder-coated bullets ... many are the possibilities for getting this thread to 459 pages.
tu2
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Found at BACO, to ease the seating of long and full-figured bullets:



... and paper for patching, .45-cal template for cutting the paper, Rooster lube for paper-patched pills, full sets of RCBS dies for .45-100 Sharps 2.6", Lyman crimping dies, etc.
And a few ready-made bullets and moulds galore.
tu2
 
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Hard lead and powder-coat paint to be allowed at the new "Mounted .458 WIN" event at the cowboy shoots?


tu2
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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We are exploring the ancestory of the .458 WIN, best big bore rifle ever made.

H&H coned-up breech (pre-1903) and belted brass of 1912.
The old one-two like a belt and suspenders on your pants.

We have worked our way back through John Rigby's .450 Special (later called the .450 NE 3.25") of 1897-1898 origin as a double rifle,
developed simultaneousy with W. Jackman Jeffery's .400 S. Jeffery (.450/.400 NE 3").
The latter was actually "Fielded" first as a Farquharson.

Both of our later-named, first-ever Nitro Express loadings therefore trace back to the drawn-case .450 BP cartridges of the 1870's.
Before that, the .577/.450 Martini-Henry was developed out of the coiled-case .450 rifle trials of the late 1860's.

The Brits and Americans were leap frogging each other reducing their .58-caliber cartridges to smaller bores using leftover percussion musket parts.

USA Percussion ERA .58-cal >>> rimfire & Berdan experiments >>> .50-70 Govt (1866) >>> .45-70 Govt. (1873) >>> .45-caliber became the standard of the Sharps Rifle Company in the mid 1870's,
for sporting, target, and buffalo rifles.
.40-cal and .50-cal and other offerings were special-ordered.
.45-cal was THE STANDARD.

UK Percussion ERA >>> .577 Snider (1867) >>> .577/450 Martini-Henry (1871) >>> .45-caliber became the great "small-bore" sporter of the 1870's >>> transition to smokeless Nitro Express ballistics, .458 Full Nitro (1897-1898).

Certainly the .458 WIN owes most of its pedigree to the British, but the Americans gave it the good go eventually: .458 Winchester Magnum of 1955-1956.

Sumbuddy who know different or can add more, please do, for THE MISSION.
tu2
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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The Quigley challenge:

Use the .45-100 SWT AND the .458 WIN to shoot a wooden water bucket from the bad guy's well at 900 yards.
I have access to a cow pasture where I have 942 yards.

The load to be duplicated or bettered, from the movie lines quoted at this link:

https://www.wideopenspaces.com...-quigley-down-under/

"Eric is clearly a big fan of the film and of Selleck, and can't seem to say enough nice things about the famous pro-Second Amendment actor. We feel pretty much the same way about Tom Selleck.

"As Selleck says, while in character, in the film when describing the rifle to the villain (Alan Rickman):

"It's a lever-action, breech loader. Usual barrel length's thirty inches. This one has an extra four. It's converted to use a special forty-five caliber, hundred and ten grain metal cartridge, with a five-hundred and forty grain paper-patched bullet. It's fitted with double set triggers, and a Vernier sight. It's marked up to twelve-hundred yards. This one shoots a mite further."



Hey! The .458 WIN is ICONIC, can be related to about any bit of pop culture, always on the good side of it, of course.
tu2
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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The few, the proud, the Sharps Forty-Fives.
All used .458-caliber bullets.

1875: .45-75 Sharps Straight aka .45-70 Sharps was the adoption by the Sharps Rifle Co., identical to the .45-70 Govt. 2.105" case.
Bullets of 330 to 500 grains, most commonly a 400-405-grainer at 1330-1350 fps MV.
(My first-blush SAAMI .458 WIN cast lead loads yielded 400-500-grainer, MOA, plinkers at just under 1400 fps, 1:14" twist, 24"-long barrel.
A half-full case of AA-5744 would ring the 600-yard gong. Gee, I need to try some BP too.)

1876 Jan.: .45-110 Sharps 2-7/8". Rifles were marked simply with .45 and a 2-7/8" designators.
You will read of bullet weights from 293 grains to 550 grains,
and powder charges from 90 grains of BP, all the way up to 120 grains.
The classic factory load by Sharps was a 550-grain, paper-patched bullet plus 110 grains of BP for 1360 fps MV, 30-inch barrel.
That "Sharps .45-120" in Andrew Garcia's TOUGH TRIP THROUGH PARADISE was no doubt a .45 Sharps (Straight) 2-7/8".
IIRC, it did kill the grizzly, good read.
This was no target or match rifle, despite Quigley.
It was a late-comer buffalo rifle, for the well-heeled visiting sportsmen who could afford the $46 price of the rifle in 1877, and the hide hunters.
It arrived barely in time to finish off the southern herd in Texas, then head to Montana to clean up the northern herd, just short of extinction.


1876 Nov.: .45-100 Sharps 2.6" discontinued in 1877.
It is the rarest of the original .45 Sharps rifles,
but it was still being loaded by Winchester as late as 1899 with 500-grain paper-patched bullet and 100 grains of BP at just over 1300 fps.
That was most probably from a 30-inch barrel 1:20" twist.
Mike Venturino says the late-1876 purpose of this cartridge was for Creedmoor target shooting at 800, 900, and 1000 yards.
Rarest of the original Sharps chamberings, it shall be resurrected as the .45-100 SWT 2.6". archer

1877: .45-90 Sharps 2.4" aka "THE .45 Sharps."
Everybody and his brother had one of these. It was factory loaded with 100-grains of BP and paper-patched 550-grainer shallowly seated.
It was a great target round too.
Thus was the .45-2.6" obsoleted by the 2.4" case, similar to the .458 WIN slaughtering the .458 Lott.
The .45-2.6" will become "The Revenger."
The .458 Lott will not.
horse

.45-120/.45-125 Sharps 3.25": A pretender that was never chambered in an original Sharps factory rifle
nor was Sharps factory ammo made for it before the demise of Sharps Rifle Co. in 1881.
It may have been conceived for the 1878 Sharps-Borchardt, but never made it to fruition for Sharps.
Some old .45 Sharps were re-chambered to the 3.25" straight case to freshen their eroded throats, or even re-barreled, after the buffalo were gone.
Winchester did the rare .45-3.25" (straight) in their Model 1885 Hi Wall, thank you John Browning,
as well as their slightly bottle-necked .45-125 Winchester 3.25" (.45 Express) with 300-grain pill, circa 1886.
The .45-3.25" Straight "So-Called-Sharps" might have been loadable to close to 1500 fps with 550-grainer, 30"-long barrel, 1:20" twist most likely.
So will be the .45-100 SWT 2.6", the Mighty Mite of single-shot and double-rifle cartridges, due to being a flanged .458 WIN Twin,
if not with BP, then easily with smokeless.
But hey, even a .45-70 Govt. Ruger No.1 can do that with smokeless powder.
tu2
Rip ...
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by RIP:
The Quigley challenge:

Use the .45-100 SWT AND the .458 WIN to shoot a wooden water bucket from the bad guy's well at 900 yards.
I have access to a cow pasture where I have 942 yards.

The load to be duplicated or bettered, from the movie lines quoted at this link:

https://www.wideopenspaces.com...-quigley-down-under/

"Eric is clearly a big fan of the film and of Selleck, and can't seem to say enough nice things about the famous pro-Second Amendment actor. We feel pretty much the same way about Tom Selleck.

"As Selleck says, while in character, in the film when describing the rifle to the villain (Alan Rickman):

"It's a lever-action, breech loader. Usual barrel length's thirty inches. This one has an extra four. It's converted to use a special forty-five caliber, hundred and ten grain metal cartridge, with a five-hundred and forty grain paper-patched bullet. It's fitted with double set triggers, and a Vernier sight. It's marked up to twelve-hundred yards. This one shoots a mite further."



Hey! The .458 WIN is ICONIC, can be related to about any bit of pop culture, always on the good side of it, of course.
tu2
Rip ...



Hold up now Pard. Couple of ground rules to ponder. First thang is, got to get past this troublin notion of putting a telescopic sight on a proper big bore rifle. That 900 yard shot at the bad guy's water bucket has to be made with good ole iron sights!!! And to top it off, it has to be done off hand. No silly restin on a pair of shootin sticks, or nuthin!! And several pokes at that bucket has to me made in rapid succession!!

That's the way Roy, err, Mathew Quigly done it!!!
 
Posts: 8272 | Registered: 09 January 2011Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Hold up now Pard. Couple of ground rules to ponder. First thang is, got to get past this troublin notion of putting a telescopic sight on a proper big bore rifle. That 900 yard shot at the bad guy's water bucket has to be made with good ole iron sights!!! And to top it off, it has to be done off hand. No silly restin on a pair of shootin sticks, or nuthin!! And several pokes at that bucket has to me made in rapid succession!!

That's the way Roy, err, Mathew Quigly done it!!!

HA HA HA Todd!
Thanks for THE MISSION support.
You know that was just Movie Make Believe.
They had to make an aluminum barrel for one of the three Quigley rifles used in the movie,
'cause Tom Selleck could not whip the real rifle around like they showed in the movie,
shootin' offhand and clobbering and such with the rifle.
On my one trip to Hawaii with the family, I saw Tom Selleck play a benefit baseball game at the Honolulu stadium.
That was back during the hay days of Magnum PI.
Now, Tom is a big 'ol boy and if he cannot do it for real, or even for fakin' in a movie,
then we will settle for shootin' the bucket from a rest,
and you get one sighter at 900 yards for readin' the wind.
Kentucky windage and Tennessee elevation with iron sights.
I will install a Soule Long Range sight on the heel of the Ruger No.1 stock,
and shoot from a back-lie-position,
and I will keep increasing the barrel length from 22" on up until I can hit the bucket at 900 yards!
The bucket might be real or just painted on a 4x8-foot sheet of plywood.
I am going to have to get some bucket dimensions if I can't find or make a real wooden bucket.
I might settle for a 5-gallon plastic bucket full of water to see if I can catch the bullet at 900 yards.
Hell yeah! That's it.
The Quigley 900-yard Bullet-catchin' Bucket. animal

I can start practicing with my scope-sighted .458 WIN LongCOL rifles,
for load development that will transfer exactly to the Soule-sighted .45-100 SWT.
I also have a Pedersoli Long Range .45-70 Govt. with 34" barrel that is dying to be converted to .458 WIN Twin,
for BP and smokeless trials.
tu2
Rip ...
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Additional Information: Included with the lot are Extracts from Appraisal by Phil Spangenberger and a notarized affidavit from Mr. Tom Selleck.

*TOM SELLECK’S SHILOH SHARPS RIFLE FROM THE MOVIE “QUIGLEY DOWN UNDER”, PROBABLY THE MOST FAMOUS MOVIE GUN IN HISTORY. SN 8886. Cal. 45 2-7/8 (45-110). This rifle is one of three that Mr. Selleck had created especially for his now epic Australian Outback movie “Quigley Down Under”. All three were used in the movie, however conversation with Mr. Selleck disclosed that this is the rifle that remained in the best condition and the one that he had elected to keep for himself. Mr. Selleck uses only his personally owned firearms in his movies, stating that he has found the rental agency firearms unacceptable and usually in poor condition. Mr. Selleck related to this cataloger that in the filming of this movie his intention was for the theme of the movie to revolve around the rifle rather than the character and that is one of the reasons the rifle was not uncased until Quigley’s arrival at the ranch when he was required to demonstrate his shooting prowess. Mr. Selleck stated that all of the material that accompanies this rifle was used in the movie and was created especially for the movie. Most of the items were created in duplicate, as with any movie there are always backup items just in case there is a malfunction so that production is not delayed. He stated that each of the items with this rifle were the ones that he selected to retain for himself and did so until late 2007 when he was tempted into selling them. Mr. Selleck stated that the other cartridge belt was probably retained by the prop master in Australia. One of the other Sharps rifles was donated to the National Firearms Museum of the National Rifle Association (NRA) and the other was also donated to the NRA in 1999 to be raffled to support the shooting programs sponsored by the NRA, which raised several million dollars. Accompanied by a copy of a letter from the Shiloh Rifle Manufacturing Co. of Big Timber, Montana, which states that this rifle was “one of three specifically built for the motion picture ‘Quigley Down Under’, starring actor, Tom Selleck as Mathew Quigley”. It further describes the rifle with the gold inlay with sights with extra length of pull to fit Mr. Selleck. It also states that all three rifles were shipped to MGM Grand Studios, Hollywood, Cal. in 1989. This lot includes the following: Shiloh-Sharps rifle, a dummy aluminum barrel so that when it was installed the rifle could be handled more easily & effectively one-handed, the one & only fringed buckskin, decorated rifle scabbard, the tooled & buckstitch laced cartridge belt with laced on loops for 21 cartridges that now contain 13 dummy cartridges that Mr. Selleck stated were some of the ones he carried in the movie (others were given away as souvenirs), a fine stag handled custom Bowie knife marked “STAPAL” and its custom leather sheath with beaded & embroidered doeskin facing, a small wood & pewter handled boot knife and an autographed DVD of the movie “Quigley Down Under” having Mr. Selleck in full costume holding this rifle on the cover. It is also accompanied by a copy of the poster from the NRA depicting Mr. Selleck holding this rifle. Rifle & accessories are described as follows: Cal. 45-110 special made Shiloh Sharps Hartford Model with 34″ medium weight oct bbl, globe front sight and Lawrence Patent style ladder rear sight with vernier tang sight that has a 4″ staff. Mounted with very nicely figured, uncheckered American walnut with standard pewter tipped forearm & straight stock with Model 1859 patchbox in right side of butt and a smooth Sharps steel buttplate. Top flat of bbl is marked “SHILOH-SHARPS MODEL” with small flourishes of foliate arabesque pattern engraving at each end and the caliber is marked over the chamber. Right side of receiver has a 1-1/4″ x 5/8″ gold wire oval inlaid with the gold initials “MQ” and it has dbl set triggers. The dummy aluminum bbl is also 34″ and of the same dimensions as the real bbl with duplicate sights. The cartridge belt is about 45″ overall length, including the buckle & tongue billets. It is 3-5/8″ wide, of medium weight belting leather having tooled decorative edges with two panels of bucklace stitching which are the ends of the cartridge loop strap. Cartridge loops are laid out in patterns of three on each side near billet ends with fifteen more in the center. It has a square brass buckle and the buckle billet is riveted. The Bowie knife has an 8-1/2″ clip point blade with 4″ back grind and is 1-1/2″ at ricasso. Left ricasso is marked in script “Stapal”. It has an oval German silver handguard with a rnd stag handle with flat, bevel edged, German silver pommel cap. Sheath is nicely made of two pieces of belting leather with a wedge near the top and a long belt loop to fit over the cartridge belt. Sheath is faced with embroidered cloth and has beaded doe skin around the top. The boot knife has a 5-1/2″ flat ground blade almost 1/4″ thick with faceted walnut handle without handguard and with a pewter band near the blade & a pewter pommel cap. Rifle scabbard is 62″ long including a 9″ flap with folded & sewn edges. It is 8″ wide at the butt end x about 3″ at muzzle end with 21″ of fringe buckstitch laced along bottom edge at the muzzle. Entire face of one side has Indian style decorations in red, green & white. Certainly in recent memory and probably for all time, this is the single most famous firearm ever used in a movie. There are numerous famous actors who have a trademark firearm that was used in much of their career but none of their movies were actually built around the firearm as Mr. Selleck did with “Quigley Down Under”. The only one or two other firearms that come close would be “Winchester ’73” with Jimmy Stewart but that movie was built more around the characters than the rifle even though the Winchester One of One Thousand rifle did play a prominent role, it was relegated to second place behind the characters. John Wayne also made his large loop lever Winchester model ’94 carbine famous and used it in many movies, but it was never a featured part of any of his movies, whereas Mr. Selleck made this rifle the focus of Quigley Down Under. Offered without estimate. PROVENANCE: Tom Selleck, Actor. CONDITION: Rifle is very fine. Bbl retains about 95% thinning orig blue with a few light scratches and wear at the balance point on the bbl which is just over the bbl marking. Receiver, lockplate, lever, hammer, buttplate & patchbox retain about all of their moderately faded orig factory case colors, strong & bright in sheltered areas. Wood is sound with a few light scratches & nicks and retains most of its orig oil finish. Mechanics are crisp, bright shiny bore. Dummy bbl retains about 90% orig black anodized finish. Cartridge belt is lightly soiled & stained with light verdigris from brass cartridge casings and marks from the cartridges. Bowie knife has a dark patina in the hollow ground area and on ricasso. Handle is fine. Sheath doeskin facing is soiled & stained with some damage to the flap. Boot knife is a blue/brown patina with solid clean handle. Sheath is moderately soiled & stained but completely intact with orig buckskin ties. 4-35576 JR501 (Estimate: PLEASE CONTACT FIREARMS DIVISION)

Auction: Firearms - Fall 2008
Please Note: All prices include the hammer price plus the buyer’s premium, which is paid by the buyer as part of the purchase price. The prices noted here after the auction are considered unofficial and do not become official until after the 46th day.

Lots of pictures here:

https://www.morphyauctions.com...un-in-history-35576/


tu2
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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A 900-yard hit on a 5-gallon Bullet-catchin' Bucket ought to count as a Quigley,
instead of the smaller wooden bucket at 800 yards ...

http://bulletin.accurateshoote...hooting-usa-tonight/

* Based on the way the movie is edited, we figure the bucket is placed at about 800 yards. A typical speed for a horse galloping is 35 mph, and the horse ran (with rider holding bucket) for 46.5 seconds (0.775 minutes). To calculate yardage, divide 35 by 60 to get miles per minute, times 0.775 for distance traveled over time. Then multiply by 1760, the number of yards in a mile. That gives us 795.66 yards.

... With a .458 WIN LongCOL.
tu2
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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The 5-gallon buckets I have on hand are about
14" tall by 11-3/4" O.D. at top by 10-1/4" O.D. at bottom.
Close enough to bigger than 1 MOA at 900 yards.
An array of 12 of these water buckets will most likely catch every bullet that I fire at it, at 900 yards, after sighting in
with Kentucky windage and Tennessee elevation.

XXXX
XXXX
XXXX

Fine tuning will allow "pick the bucket" hits ...

XXXX
XXXX
XXXX

... with .458 WIN LongCOL scoped or .45-100 Sharps Winchester Throat 2.6" iron-sighted.
tu2
Rip ...
XXXX
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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RIP,
I had to chime in,years ago I watched Quigley down under,I had no guns,I looked up Quigley rifle on the internet,& BINGO ha ha my firearms hobby had just started,I ended up with three Shiloh's,45-70,45-90 & the 45-110,my favorite of all three,I learned how to reload & shoot,always took two guns to the range,my fellow high powered shooters always gave me funny looks & funny remarks,until they saw my paper,once I got the hang of reloading for these guns? they were super accurate,my range only goes to 300 yrds,used soule sights on these rifles,hunted twice with Sharp's,elk & bison,very easy kills,I spent many a hour on the range,I still have the 45-110,a Browning bpcr 45-90 & a Borchardt 45-90,the 45-110 is still my favorite tu2


DRSS
 
Posts: 2259 | Location: MI | Registered: 20 March 2007Reply With Quote
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When I acquired my CZ 550 (458 win mag) at a sportsman warehouse was closing its doors years ago I know I acquired it less than $500.00. Likely the reason I acquired it.
My problem with the 458 in that rifle was that the cartridges sloshed around in the magazine as the mag spring was not firm enough to hold them in place so I re chambered to the Lott. I have since acquire a 458 WM in a Browning Safari grade.
Where I am going with this is that OAL of my hand loaded Lott cartridges are 3.740" where typical in the hand loading books are 3.60.
I basically loaded just shy of the magazine box capacity.
Not unlike what some of the folks have suggested doing with the 458 WM in the CZ550
you can also do with the Lott. You can increase that capacity as well.
It has been quite a while since I did any loading for the rifle but the data I do have appears I settled on a 450 NF at 2420 FPS with A2520 (23" barrel). When I shake the cartridge I can detect some air space (no compaction). I had no detection of pressure and that was at OAL of 3.740.
Those CZ's have a big magazine and that things holds 5 down.
The WM and the Lott are both good cartridges.
 
Posts: 3051 | Location: Texas | Registered: 06 January 2009Reply With Quote
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Bill73,

My appreciative comments in red below:

quote:
Originally posted by Bill73:
... my firearms hobby had just started, I ended up with three Shiloh's: 45-70, 45-90 & the 45-110, my favorite of all three ...

That is flat-out outstanding man!

... I learned how to reload & shoot, always took two guns to the range ...

Yep, usually better to take two guns to the range instead of just one, especially on a really hot day. tu2

... my fellow high powered shooters always gave me funny looks & funny remarks, until they saw my paper ...

Jealous of your guns and your shooting, no doubt.

... once I got the hang of reloading for these guns they were super accurate, my range only goes to 300 yrds ...

Far enough to adequately test the gun and shooter, and the wind.

... used Soule sights on these rifles, hunted twice with Sharp's, elk & bison, very easy kills ...

I am hanging up the .375 H&H, .416 Rigby, 404 Jeffery, 460 Wby, .500 A2, and .500 Mbogo,
all my previous buffalo killers, for a while.


... I spent many a hour on the range, I still have the 45-110 ...

A Shiloh Sharps 1874 should be of proper Quigley chambering, though not for the faint of heart.

... a Browning bpcr 45-90 ...

Wonderful chambering for a Hi Wall. The old original Winchester M-1885 factory rifles were chambered for over a hundred different cartridges,
including the rare .45-120 "Sharps" 3.25-Inch, and the less rare .45-125 Winchester Express, along with most of Ye Olde English BPCR-NFBPE cartridges.


... & a Borchardt 45-90 ...

The Sharps-Borchardt 1878 designed by Hugo Borchardt, who also designed the Luger pistol, is my dream gun for a .45-100 SWT 2.6".
A modern steel replica could not be beat for strength.


the 45-110 is still my favorite tu2

Thanks for THE MISSION support.
tu2
Rip ...
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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