There have been so many rumors and comments about Montana Rifle Company (MRC) lately and while most have been good there have been some negative as well. We believe most negative comments to either be from a misunderstanding or misinformation about our products.

First of all let me start by saying we are no longer the same company. The overall product line has not changed but just about everything else has. We have new owners; who have a completely new philosophy about the product we are producing along with how we will deal with our customers. The previous thought process was “ We are not building a $2000 action, if you want anything different do it yourselfâ€. While we still believe we are building the starting point for a custom rifle, we also understand the changing dynamics of the custom rifle industry. While there are still a handful of gunsmiths who prefer to build a custom rifle from scratch, there is a large majority who want the action in more of a finished state before they get it. Because each person has a comfort level that they are willing to start with, we have decided to do two things;
1. All actions will have the raceways smoothed and the receiver/bolt squared and lapped. The trigger pull will be set to between 3-4 lbs. The actions will be semi-blueprinted.
2 We are going to offer the actions in different levels of finish (obviously with different pricing structures). The more you want your action “finishedâ€, the higher the price will be. However we will still keep the overall costs below all others actions that are in the same category, as far as features. These pricing increases will begin 6/1/07

One of the biggest complaints we have had is the lengthy time frames to get any of our long and short actions. Let me give you all the assurance that within the next 30-60 days we will have inventory of every variation of action we currently make. Right and left handed, stainless and CM, long and short, standard and magnum. We have made it our mission to provide you with inventory, but also to make that inventory the highest quality we can provide.

Another thing we want to do is help those who feel they had a bad experience with us. For those of you that fall into this category, please give us a call and we will try to work that out on a one on one basis.

The PH and the Mini,…..wow…where do I begin? Well first let me start by saying we are going to complete these projects sooner than later. We will be starting with the PH and hope to have it going by SHOT Show 2008. I know….you’ve heard that before, right? Well you’ll either have to just trust me or wait and see. The mini is one we hope to start by mid 2008. We will not be doing these the same way we did the short and long actions, by using customers money to produce them. This time we will be doing it with our own money and will charge the customers on shipment. While we pursued every option available to keep the price of the PH at the introductory offering of $525.00, with the rising costs of steel and machining costs of parts there is no chance that we will be able to fulfill that. The pricing of the introductory offer will be around $625.00-$650.00 This pricing will only be for the customers that have pre-ordered the PH’s and have an order in before 6/1/07. All orders after 6/1/07 will be at regular pricing, around $750-850.

There will be other updates as we grow and we want to thank you for your patronage and especially your continued patience.

Jeff & Devin

I only wish good luck with your current endeavor. You have had, in the past, a good product that could, perhaps, have used a little refinement. I hope that is what your future will bring. There is definately a desire for your products and I don't think the increase in pricing will damage sales. Again, good fortune to you.

Jeff, I would like to join in and wish you the best of luck! I had good experience with the "old" Montana Rifleman Company, and I'm sure I'll like dealing with the company and its changed management.

The problem to correct first and foremost is availability! It would be great if you guys can build up inventory, but even a limited (and above all advised and adhered to) production delay would probably be acceptable. Problems start when deadlines announced are not met.

It is great if you guys are willing to focus more on quality. I'm sure your customers will be willing to pay for that. You have delivered a good product in the past, but it can be made better. I personally believe there is room to maneuver with respect to price. I doubt your customers are willing to accept compromises with respect to quality.

Your customer service has always been good. Keep it that way!

IMHO, don't try to announce availability of future products too far in advance. You'll end up paying for it in the end if you don't meet deadlines. It is fine if you declare your intention of manufacturing the PH in the future, it is even fine if you share your intentions (or hopes) of having a prototype ready for the Shot Show in 2008. However, many people won't make the connection that availability of a prototype does NOT mean production has started, or even less that a product is available for sale. We all tend to be optimistic and exited about new projects, reality often sets in with unexpected problems. If and when you do finally make the PH (or Mini) available, there will be a market for it, even if you did not pre-announce the product. You can always spill the beans when delivery draws closer.

Good luck in your new endeavour!

- mike

Glad to hear things are moving forward at MRC.

Wishing you folks the best of luck!

Regards,
Dave

Let me see if I understand this correctly. The old PH list has been dumped, and if one wants to be on the new PH list one has to call in an order by June 1st. Is that correct?

22WRF - No, the orders are still in the system, if you have one on order it will still be there. In fact someone will be calling all of the PH orders in the next few weeks to confirm them and to explain the new pricing.
If anyone has any questions as to whether they are on the list, just give us a call.

Mike, Thank you for your opinon, you are correct, I put "we hope" to have it by Shot Show because that is our "goal", but no one can predict exact time frames in Manufacturing. Thanks again.

Jeff
Best of luck

Great luck Jeff,
I have 3 of yours and they have always been a pleasure to own
Danny

If I have any advice for MRC (and yes, I know you didn't ask) it's simply this!

Before efforts are expended on marginally selling actions like the PH etc, make sure the standard 1999 action is corrected and what it should be.....and take about four ounces out of it too!

Get one right and then work on the next.

I have a 1999 in 404 Jeff that works swell....and this needs to be a safe purchase before we venture to other larger and smaller actions!

Jeff;

While I don't have any of your actions I have followed your up and downs over the past few years. I wonder just how your nose must look after all the grindstone work. Your stick-to-it performance makes the big guys look sick. Highest credibility to you and your efforts.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
Before efforts are expended on marginally selling actions like the PH etc, make sure the standard 1999 action is corrected and what it should be.....and take about four ounces out of it too!

Get one right and then work on the next.

I don't necessarily disagree (volunteering my opinion, although not asked for - but, hey, this is the Internet... ). The M1999 will stay your bread and butter product, and you have a great advantage in offering both LH and RH models (short, long, SS, CM - you name it).

Without changing the parameters of the casting process for the receiver itself, and without adding machining steps to the process, I wonder how much weight you might be able to shed from the bottom metal?? Perhaps not as much as 4oz (as Vapo wanted), but it might be the easiest place to start - yet largely protecting your investment in the production setup.

- mike

It'll be quite awhile before I'll have the sheckels for a 1999, but years from now when I am ready to build a .375 I sure hope there will be a stainless LH magnum action still in production.

Thanks for building a product that shooters want rather than marketing the hell out of something, and special thanks for delivering to we southpaws.

Jeff was great to me while buying my 1999 SA in 6.5X55 with the custom barrel profile. I really like my action and do not mind the weight, but then again I am a tad bit larger than most guys.

I wish them good luck and hope to start another rifle soon, just need toget this one done. BTW where is that Jim Dubell anyways? LOL

I wish Jeff and the gang great success! I am very happy with my two Long Actions. I was treated very well by the folks at MRC.

Jeff & Devin,

I don't have a dog in this fight (or any previous pretentions of an altercation, either) and like many here have visited your website, considered your products and observed some comments.

I would like to wish you both the very best in your endevour simply because anyone who makes a Left-Hand action at the prices you are indicating could EASILY become a supplier to me!

Just wanted to add my wishes for MRC's success to the list here.

Steve

i guess i am charlie brown and mrc is lucy with the action football but i am willing to take them up on their offer. thanks for the update and good luck.

'08 you say, hmmm. How long after that, to get to the distributors in Canada. Namely Bits Of Pieces.

366 If you are referring to the PH's, our distributors in other countries that have them on order will get them the same time as everyone else. For those of you that are currently waiting on the Long and Short Actions to be Exported, we appreciate your patience. Being new owners, there is a new registration process to become and Exporter of Firearms and Firearms parts.....and we are getting closer to being finsihed with it.

Jeff -

Do you know what the price increase in standard actions will be? Also, does it mean if we order by June 1 we can beat the increase?

Thanks.

SmallCal - the new pricing has not been finalized and yes if you order before that deadline you will recieve the old pricing.

Do Jon Frost and Dan still work there? I have always appreciated their great customer service.
I have three of your actions and about eight MR barrels of outstanding quality. The naysayers don't know what they are missing.

Jeff,

Have the new owners assumed all of the old company's warranties, etc?

Sambubba- Jon and Dan are no longer with the company, but you will always get the same great customer service from all our employees. If you don't, let us know.
Fjold- While it is new ownership we will continue to honor the warranty.

Jeff,

Should we go to your web site to place a PH order, or should we do it by email. I'm asking because your site's home page has not been updated since 8/06.

LHook7, Yes you can either send an order to me jeff@montanarifleman.com or Devin at devin@montanarifleman. The deal with the website is that it is owned by Montana Rifleman not Montana Rifle Company. We will have our own website soon and hope to get the info on Montana Rifleman's website updated as well.

Jeff- I am still wanting some if you can
make the barrel thread a little larger,
as I asked them before. Increasing the
tentative action diameter larger than the
Mauser/Enfield action diameter, while making
the barrel thread smaller than Mau/En isn't
right. We need actions than can handle real
large cases..Nyati/Trex/6ooOK aren't real
large cases, as they go into CZ and Ruger
real easy. I hope you can do this.Ed

MontanaJeff- I want to be sure that I'm still on the original order list for the PH action. I can wait.----Pegleg

Is the "New" pricing going to apply to the PH model when it comes out. And does the same price that we signed on at the beginning of the PH still apply?

quote:

Originally posted by Customstox:
Is the "New" pricing going to apply to the PH model when it comes out. And does the same price that we signed on at the beginning of the PH still apply?

I'm guessing the previous price we signed up for is a lost issue, Chic.

This from Jeff's opening post.....

While we pursued every option available to keep the price of the PH at the introductory offering of $525.00, with the rising costs of steel and machining costs of parts there is no chance that we will be able to fulfill that. The pricing of the introductory offer will be around $625.00-$650.00 This pricing will only be for the customers that have pre-ordered the PH’s and have an order in before 6/1/07. All orders after 6/1/07 will be at regular pricing, around $750-850.

I won't be following through on my order, and I know several others that won't be either. However, it appears that the action will be produced regardless of how many pre-orders are registered.

GV

GV, thanks, I missed that. If it is the price of steel going up, I will pay for all the steel in those I ordered and they can keep the price the same. It is interesting that something like the price of 2 or 3 pounds of steel or better yet the increase in the price is even discussed.

I don't want to get into the middle of this however I only think it is fair to point out that the new owners have started a whole new company. The old MRC is who we all placed the intro orders with...they are no longer around. The new group of investors has offered to honor some intro pricing on the PH action...yes it is higher than the old quite however remember this game started years ago...and ended up dead. I will pay the extra $100...hell has anyone looked at rifle prices recently. Rugers are selling for close to $1000..Remington for $800...weatherby for $1600....IMO $625 for a DSB Mag Mauser action is still a good value!

Jeff sent you a PM Thanks Al

Jeff-

I sent you an e-mail.

I think it would be good to know for those on the forum, including myself, when we would be called on to pay the $625.00.

Would that be on the order date or some date in the future, like, for example, just prior to or at delivery?

I think it is a point that needs to be clarified especially if you have had an outstanding order that is 2-3 years old.

Please advise.

Jeff
Will those dealers among us have to send in new copies of our ffls, or have you maintained your file? I like your actions and have used several of them for clients guns and am happy to see the renewed effort to get back to business. Walt

Roscoe, did they start a "whole new company" or did they buy the old one? They certainly have the same name. Even the old company did not have a legal contract with any of us on the PH model as no money had changed hands, it was only their word that they would come through on the deal. So if this company's first order of business is to tell us that they are not going to honor those prices that was part of the agreement, it does tell me something about their character, or lack of it.

And in retrospect, the previous offerings of actions were basically priced at what was a normal dealer price which I could have received anyway. Now maybe they will not offer any dealer discounts but the whole concept was that they would have our money to do the development and that discount was a win win.

I made the comment based on the following quotes...I have not spoken to anyone at MRC.

quote:

Originally posted by MontanaJeff:

First of all let me start by saying we are no longer the same company. The overall product line has not changed but just about everything else has. We have new owners; who have a completely new philosophy about the product we are producing along with how we will deal with our customers.
Jeff & Devin

And This one:

quote:

Originally posted by MontanaJeff:
The deal with the website is that it is owned by Montana Rifleman not Montana Rifle Company. We will have our own website soon and hope to get the info on Montana Rifleman's website updated as well.

What is all of the hub-bub about? If you can't afford another $100 for the PH action...you can't afford the rest of the custom rifle. I will take the PH action for $625 without pissing and moaning...just price a GMA or several other custom actions. You would be looking at $3000+ so quit your whining! You want it...buy it. If not...move on.

Woodrow, the hubub is not about $100, it about commitment and respect for your customers. I know what a GMA sells for and know the quality. I also have a great deal of respect for the people who make them and stand behind their product. All we have gotten from this company so far is that they will offer the same good service as was afforded by the previus owners, and by the way, we will not honor the prices as agreed to previously. I have not decided whether I will still buy or not.

Now in respect to your move it on comment, this is an open forum and subject to different views than your sublime one. I would offer if you don't agree with my view you can post your opposition to it. As far as you telling me to move on, you can shove that well thought out objection up your ass.

Customstox

I would offer that you should practice what you preach. Most of the time when you don't like what people say, instead of just allowing them to say what they want to say you put them on disable or ignore, or whatever they call it. Its like a "my shit doesn't stink but yours does" type of attitude.