quote:

Originally posted by kaschi:
Yes, make that detachable version with a flush fitting magazine. Nothing should extend out below. How about the idea of a rotary magazine like on the Ruger 77 22 Hornet? I never understood why Ruger never adopted that idea for their Model 77 in 223. Maybe a good opportunity for you guys?!

Nothing will extend beyond the floorplate of the bottom metal. When we first started this project a lot of people said how much they hated the CZ mini because of the clip magazine extending beyond the floorplate as they thought it was ugly. We listened and once it is stocked nobody would be able to tell that it has a removable clip.

Dan

quote:

Originally posted by Timan:
I saw some parts cut with a wire where the water flush was repalaced with and oil flush.

The oil flush gave a surface finish that looked like a mirror!! Now that; was awesome.

The beauty of your project is there is no c-ring and such that is locking you into a traditional design.

By all means wire it.

I be willing to bet you could source a wired receiver blank for around 175.00 per piece material included.

Then you can fixture off the wired hole. Fixturing for the wired hole could also be made on the wire. Exactamundo, deadnuts accurate.

If I ever make a round action thats how I'm doing it.
TIMAN

It is going to be a wonderfully smooth action with tight enough tolerances to make it function very well but enough tolerence to make it function all the time.

Dan

all the machining processes that have been mentioned are common to the industry. I fail to see what could possibly be gained by keeping the processes secret other then to make people think you have something to hide.

If Dan isn't machining it, maybe he just doesn't know.

I've got a black magic machine that cuts the third lug recess for a Mauser 98. I could show complete pictures with prints to manufacture it. But............ Without knowing which moon phase that's required and the CORRECT type of toad to rip the tongue out of, the newt eyeballs crushed and shaken, not stirred, it would be physically impossible for anyone else to use it. You also have to know which side of your mouth you have to stick your tongue out of while operating it.

quote:

Yes, make that detachable version with a flush fitting magazine. Nothing should extend out below.

I'd like it to support a 20-round AR magazine, but that's just me. Would it be possible to have it available with a flush-mounted magazine for those who want that as well as have it support an AR magazine?

Good enough for me. I always keep a set of keys to the castle too. Hope to see your actions soon.
Stu

quote:

Originally posted by Howard:
all the machining processes that have been mentioned are common to the industry. I fail to see what could possibly be gained by keeping the processes secret other then to make people think you have something to hide.

Sorry, haven't been in here in a while. Should have answered this and all of your questions earlier.

The processes of machining are not a secret. Pretty standard stuff. There are attributes to the action that we aren't ready to release yet. Latest word right now is that the 1st two prototypes are leaving heat treating today (9/2/08) and will arrive back at the machine shop in a day or two. Once in the machine shop they will check the machined parts to ensure that there is no unexpected movement to them. There are still more than a dozen prototypes waiting on these two pieces before they are completed. We should see these 2 prototypes next week. If all goes well I would expect to be in production within the month.

It's definately been a long process, but in the end I think everyone will be happy. I can't wait to show you the finished product!

Dan

yawn<

thanks for the update...........ignore the petty little ankle biters.

quote:

Originally posted by Howard:
thanks for the update...........ignore the petty little ankle biters.

+1

Go Dan, go!

- mike

Dan, this may have already been asked and answered but,,,,Is the footprint of this action going to be the same as anything on the market now? In other words, what about a stock? Once the action comes out are the buyers going to to wait to get a stock for it or not?

If it does, would you mind divulging which make the action resembles?

If it doesn't could you tell us about plans to stock these?

Thanks,
Terry

PS. SDH will come around once a REAL action hits the market. I've read his thoughts about this on another thread. He wants it for us, He wants it for you, but there are always' a bunch of promises around these custom actions that never seem to be met. Remember the Montana's? Rough road. Never even saw the PH did we? Remember the Williams custom action? We were supposed to see it at the SHOT show 4 yrs ago As much as I really want to disagree with him he's batting a 1000.

Eagerly waitin'...

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:
Dan, this may have already been asked and answered but,,,,Is the footprint of this action going to be the same as anything on the market now? In other words, what about a stock? Once the action comes out are the buyers going to to wait to get a stock for it or not?

If it does, would you mind divulging which make the action resembles?

If it doesn't could you tell us about plans to stock these?

Thanks,
Terry

PS. SDH will come around once a REAL action hits the market. I've read his thoughts about this on another thread. He wants it for us, He wants it for you, but there are always' a bunch of promises around these custom actions that never seem to be met. Remember the Montana's? Rough road. Never even saw the PH did we? Remember the Williams custom action? We were supposed to see it at the SHOT show 4 yrs ago As much as I really want to disagree with him he's batting a 1000.

It will be similar to something like a Remington 600. We are going to be sending the prototypes to stockmakers so that they can do patterns. We won't leave you guys hanging on stocks.

Believe me when I say I know exactly what you guys are saying when it comes to "we're going to make an action, oops no we're not". I lived through that at one time. The nice thing about this action is that as long as we keep our priorities straight and don't get in over our heads we will do good. Remember that this is a machined action and from what I heard today the prototypes came out of heat treating and there was absolutely no distortion on the receivers. We should have the first couple of prototypes next week and the rest of the prototypes the week after next.

Dan

quote:

Originally posted by SDH:
yawn<

Ye of little faith..LOL...... Understandably so seeing what some of the companies out there have promised and never delivered. We hope to make a believer out of you.

Dan

quote:

Originally posted by mho:

quote:

Originally posted by Howard:
thanks for the update...........ignore the petty little ankle biters.

+1

Go Dan, go!

- mike

Thanks Mike. It's nice to get support from across the pond....

Dan

Dan while you are at it might as well come out with a Kurz action too. You would have a gold mine !

quote:

It will be similar to something like a Remington 600.

I hope that the footprint resemble the Remington 600 and not the action itself, not that I necessilary have a horse in this race.

quote:

Originally posted by D Humbarger:
Dan while you are at it might as well come out with a Kurz action too. You would have a gold mine !

Well....... We are looking at doing a couple of standard bolt actions (30-06 length) in both a push and a controlled round feed. Keep watching our website for more info. http://www.americangunllc.com

quote:

Originally posted by 30 Caliber Mag Fan:

quote:

It will be similar to something like a Remington 600.

I hope that the footprint resemble the Remington 600 and not the action itself, not that I necessilary have a horse in this race.

No, basically going to be a round bodied action, stockmakers love those as they are easier to bed and inlet for. Keep watching!

Dan,

If the price point stays around what you've alluded to thus far, then I'd very much like to buy your first left-bolt action. Let me know when you'll accept my order.

Best,

Ian

We are working at keeping the price as low as possible. We are working hard with our vendors to keep our pricing down. It doesn't do us any good to go out and offer another $1000+ machined action to compete with everyone else at that price point. We haven't sat down and figured all the pricing out just yet. We are still working with vendors on 1st articles/prototypes before we commit to buying large quantities of parts.

Dan

quote:

Originally posted by McGowenRifle:
basically going to be a round bodied action, stockmakers love those as they are easier to bed and inlet for.

Not this stockmaker.

Are you speaking from experience? Or quoting a Lane Simpson article?

I'm not slamming your product, just questioning where you came up with the design parameters/marketing points from. IMHO the round action design is only for economy but constantly touted for other reasons. If you say you're building a round action to keep costs down, it's a valid point and I'd believe you. The other claim just sounds like spin to me. But then again, what do I know?

Another problem the most copied (Rem) round action has is the rear tang. It is so steep that you CAN'T make a gracefull looking stock for it without radically changing the angle tang. That's why the grip pull on most Rems are so short. Most SPIN this by claiming that the vertical grip makes for better shooting form. Making the grip pull longer with the steep tang makes the profile of the grip WAY too thin.

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:

quote:

Originally posted by McGowenRifle:
basically going to be a round bodied action, stockmakers love those as they are easier to bed and inlet for.

Not this stockmaker.

Are you speaking from experience? Or quoting a Lane Simpson article?

I'm not slamming your product, just questioning where you came up with the design parameters/marketing points from. IMHO the round action design is only for economy but constantly touted for other reasons. If you say you're building a round action to keep costs down, it's a valid point and I'd believe you. The other claim just sounds like spin to me. But then again, what do I know?

Obviously not every stock maker feels that way (what I said earlier) but a couple of synthetic stock makers we deal with regularly said they prefer a round action.

Dan

Kurz means (short) action.

quote:

Originally posted by D Humbarger:
Kurz means (short) action.

You are correct, where was my head? I looked right at one on the internet earlier and knew that. We, just so you know, are making a 308 version of our Mini Action.

Dan

Just to let everyone know, we have the 1st prototypes of the Mini Action in our hands. The tolerances are tight! Action is smooth. It is becoming a reality. We just are waiting for some of the other parts to come in so that we can assemble these and start the testing.


Dan

It would appear from looking at the website, that your actions won't be available unless accompanied by a barrel. Am I reading that correctly? Looks like the mini will have to be barreled by you guys?

I finally got a chance to look at the partially completed prototype yesterday. In general, I like the action. The action is not a Remington clone or a copy of anything else but uses features found on many. As with most prototypes, changes in manufacturing methods and even some design changes are likely to occur.
The prototype is fully machined and heat treated. The fits are very good. The bolt works smoothly and fits the receiver very well.
The action utilizes a full diameter bolt so there are no locking lug raceways. The bore of the receiver is smoothly reamed.
The bolt is a three lug design (I favor two lug actions but used to shoot Wichitas and liked them OK so three works. The only real disadvantage to the three lug design is that the camming on closing is necessarily limited. Not usually a problem on a target rifle or a prairie dog rifle but a possible shortcoming on a big game rifle.).
There are some things I might do differently than on the prototype but that doesn't mean it's wrong although I do like to think I'm usually right! All in all, I think it is something I will like to work with.
I won't try to give a full description at this time; that's Dan's job! Mostly, it looks good. As with other offerings, the quality control will be a critical part of the process and the guys are well aware of this. Regards, Bill.

quote:

Originally posted by pointblank:
It would appear from looking at the website, that your actions won't be available unless accompanied by a barrel. Am I reading that correctly? Looks like the mini will have to be barreled by you guys?

pointblank,

We are looking at a variety of options right now. I think that once you have seen the action and its concept you will understand ours. Unfortunately I can't post any pictures "just yet" but seeing it (as Bill Leeper has) you'll get the big picture.

Dan

quote:

The only real disadvantage to the three lug design is that the camming on closing is necessarily limited. Not usually a problem on a target rifle or a prairie dog rifle but a possible shortcoming on a big game rifle.

Thanks Bill. Just so everyone knows, this was never designed as big game rifle, and I'm sure you never meant it that way, but want to just make sure everyone knows this. This is a bench type or varmint type rifle action and should be really accurate as it is really stiff. The nice thing about this one too is that we will upon request have solid bottom receivers made (single shots) for those who ask for them.

Dan

[QUOTE]The action utilizes a full diameter bolt so there are no locking lug raceways.
~snip~
The bolt is a three lug design ...QUOTE]

Bill,

You have described the interior of a Parker-Ballard to a "T", except for the parts about "... fits are very good."

I also described the Sportco (Omark) 44 (crude) and the Barnard S (classy). There is nothing really new.
My comments regarding three lug designs were not meant as a criticism; just a comment. If I were to make a similar action, I would probably not go with a three lug but I have nothing against them for the purpose. I really like the Barnard, for instance, in spite of it's short cams.
Regards, Bill

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:
Another problem the most copied (Rem) round action has is the rear tang. It is so steep that you CAN'T make a gracefull looking stock for it without radically changing the angle tang. That's why the grip pull on most Rems are so short. Most SPIN this by claiming that the vertical grip makes for better shooting form. Making the grip pull longer with the steep tang makes the profile of the grip WAY too thin.

Agreed. On our Mini to accomodate everyone we have made it so that the gunsmith/stockmaker can shape it to the lines that they want. It is difficult if not impossible to make it perfect for everyone so we are giving the option.

Dan

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
I also described the Sportco (Omark) 44 (crude) and the Barnard S (classy). There is nothing really new.
My comments regarding three lug designs were not meant as a criticism; just a comment. If I were to make a similar action, I would probably not go with a three lug but I have nothing against them for the purpose. I really like the Barnard, for instance, in spite of it's short cams.
Regards, Bill

Oh, I didn't take it as criticism, on the contrary I appreciate your input. We've known each other for a long time and I respect all of your opinion.

We could have, I guess (I'm not a designer) made it with two lugs, but as you've seen it you know the concept we were going after. I think it will work out very well. We'll probably make a few changes to the design over time. The basic design (IMHO) is a good one and one to be built upon. As I've said before in here, because it is machined changes are actually much easier and less expensive to make than if it was forged or cast.

Thanks Bill

Dan

quote:

Originally posted by kitchen:
[QUOTE]The action utilizes a full diameter bolt so there are no locking lug raceways.
~snip~
The bolt is a three lug design ...QUOTE]

Bill,

You have described the interior of a Parker-Ballard to a "T", except for the parts about "... fits are very good."

The bolt raceway if you want to call it that, is honed at the machine shop or at least it will be in the production models to give you a glass smooth finish and flawless function.

Dan

I'm sure your tolerance quality will far exceed my P-B example, although the bolt slop I experience may also be a factor of a frisky buffing wheel some time before I came into it.

Can you confirm that it will be stainless only, no CM?

quote:

Originally posted by Ian (VA):
Can you confirm that it will be stainless only, no CM?

Right now our thinking is just Stainless. I know some won't like that but with all the high tech coatings out there we thought that the vast majority would want stainless. We are also working on some coatings for this action that will not only increase the slickness of the action but will also give a blued look.

Dan

quote:

Originally posted by kitchen:
I'm sure your tolerance quality will far exceed my P-B example, although the bolt slop I experience may also be a factor of a frisky buffing wheel some time before I came into it.

I played around with one of the prototypes and checked for sloppiness to it and could not find any. I also tried to get it to bind up and without really putting a lot of force upwards I couldn't get it to bind. It is very smooth.

Dan