quote:

Originally posted by mho:
Dan, it is very shrewd of you to listen to your potential customer base. The Internet offers potential for this unheard of in the past.

I hope the participants here will prove experienced enough to understand at which level of the process this action is currently at: early design level. That means, no promises have been made in terms of when this product will hit the street in commercial numbers. In all the action development processes I have followed over the last 4-5 years, *something* has always managed to delay the new products in one way or the other. This action is not likely to be an exception in this respect. What matters is that it does eventually happen, and that the product is right.

-mike

Mike,

Thank you for the kind words. You are correct, there is always something that goes wrong when you begin production or simply prototyping. We hope that with our experience this won't be an issue. And because we are machining it should be easy to catch and fix almost immediately.

Dan

quote:

Originally posted by Howard:
Maybe this has already been posted elsewhere. McGowenRifle where can one find you contact info.........website address............pricing and purchasing and specs etc on your products?

Howard,

You can find us at http://www.mcgowenbarrel.com

Dan

Dan,
It's better to be late to market with a damn good product than be on time with a POS product that you will have to defend every day. Wise ol' saying "hurry up and #### up". I have a 22 cal Lilja sitting in my safe that I bought anticipating delivery on someone else's mini action and it's been sitting there for about 3 years now. Would like a look at what you're doing but if I buy I expect a damn good product. Good luck! Let us know when it's ready!

quote:

Originally posted by clowdis:
Dan,
It's better to be late to market with a damn good product than be on time with a POS product that you will have to defend every day. Wise ol' saying "hurry up and #### up". I have a 22 cal Lilja sitting in my safe that I bought anticipating delivery on someone else's mini action and it's been sitting there for about 3 years now. Would like a look at what you're doing but if I buy I expect a damn good product. Good luck! Let us know when it's ready!

Clowdis,

Well said.

We know how fast word can get around when it comes to quality. You can have 100 people who are absolutely thrilled with your product but all it takes is one unhappy camper to bring you back to reality. As much as we want to get this on the market we will take the necessary steps to ensure that it functions flawlessly and is safe. Only then will we come out and show everyone what it looks like and announce its actual release. We don't want to become another one of those companies that say they are going to make something and then say that we "hope" to have it out by a certain date.

Because we are machining this action we don't have the long drawn out problem associated with other methods of making actions. And again because we are machining it, if we run into a problem it is much easier to fix it at that time rather than having to wait even longer to get the tooling right. We know other companies will say that they are going to make a Mini action and to be perfectly honest we are not concerned with these companies. They will have their following and we'll have ours. Our only competition is within ourselves to make the best product possible.

McGowen Rifle Barrels, formerly owned by Harry McGowen was in business since 1959. We have taken Harry's company and revitalized it and the word is already getting out there concerning the quality that we are producing. It is the same with American Gun Company, we will produce a product that some may like and some won't, but those who like it will talk about the quality hopefully for many years to come.

Dan

Seems that I have been away for a while.

I can say that I had Harry McGowen build my first rifle back in 1973. Several followed over the years from Harry and a few others until I became a machinist. I currently have several ( New Guys)one hole McGowen barrels and as long as the quality remains I will not buy a barrel anywhere else. These barrels far exceed the quality of any barrel I own from Harry. In fact these barrels rate equal to any barrel regardless of who made it, costing 2 and 3 times what we pay for big names.

I first got tipped many months ago before Dan and the boys walked out of the door from Montana
Rifle and went out on their own. I got the first barrel I know of from these guys when I had Scott Null show me his work on a Striker. If you go to the mcgowen.com website and click on trophies, there is a pisture of my wife after shooting groups with several guns. The center target was made with 6 bullets from the Scott Null using the McGowen barrel 338X300. That particular gun is the red-white-blue gun behind my wifes arm.

As a bit of an anal machinist I will say that the internal and external finish on the barrel are exceeded by no one! The tolerances on the Savage barrel thread are so tight that I and others only hand tighten the barrel not. I have several of these incredible shooting barrels and have many more on order. Why would any one order something they have never seen you ask? Remember the slick little mini-husky action? Well mate it with a Remington model 7. No I am not giving top secret information because basicly all bolt actions are alike, this company however has paid attention over the years and watched Remington mis-market the Xp ( Yes I am solely a handgun hunter) and Savage basicly doing the same thing. Whether it be in handgun or rifle, add a jewel trigger from the factory, $150 barrel, SIngle shot or from the bottom Mag feed. CUstom trued action tuned to the tenth at the factory! That is why I am waiting to order several of these new actions. That and Scott Null builds super rifles with these barrel makers, barrels that come with a written accuracy guarantee and has been using these barrel makers for 15 years. They have stood the test of time.

That 338X300 came with a .3 written guarantee and it has yet to shoot any load over .250! When I get my mini action this sping in 6br we are going to take that rear grip handgun and compete here against the rifle benchrest boys. That is how amazed I am with the workmanship and quality.

ANyone reading this can rest assured that when these guys become famous with the quailty products they will not be jacking their prices up like many other famous barrel makers. These guys and Scott Null as well, are good ole boys that believe a business is built and sustained with quality and repetition over time.

For what its worth.

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:

quote:

Originally posted by Fish30114:

quote:

Originally posted by Oldmodel70:
Dan, don't let the guys talk you out of a "clip"/ detachable magazine on the Mini..... I own a Sako L461 6X47, and an L46 222 Rem.; which, of course, has the detachable mag. I wish they both were the "clip" model...
Grant.

Dan, + 1, One big 1.

I don't know about all the 'traditionalists' not liking a DBM. Get over it! if you don't want to remove it, don't!

The problem is it's far too easy for the 'traditionalists' not liking a DBM TO get over it. They simply won't buy one. I know I won't. CZ and SAKO already make that. As a matter of fact I'm talking to someone right now that's very serious about making a hindged straddle floorplate and 3-position safety for the CZ 527 now. If it happens I'll be out of the market all together because I can't think of a nicer package once slicked up. The idea is to sell as many of these as possible and I bet when they hit the shelves the floorplate models will out sell the removable magazine models 2 to 1 if they actually become avalible. I would think the idea would be to make something most people want, but nobody else makes. Maybe I'm wrong.

Dan's action, my money. Only time will tell.

Terry

Right on, Terry! Keep us informed about the
upgrade parts for the 527. It would sure fix everything I don't like about the little action. I still coukdn't help myself....I bought one anyway!

Absolutely not everyone will like our action, but I think once everyone gets a look at the finished product it will have its following. We didn't go into this with an exaggerated ego thinking that we would replace every mini action on the market. We are just offering an alternative.

Dan

Dan,
I am not sure how much of your market would be purchased by people for use in constructing a custom gun, even if you did incorporate what they wanted. You probably have a better idea of this than I do. I suspect it would be small. Of course, it also depends on your price. It is good that you are here discussing the project with us. And yes, we have had people who have discussed proposed actions on here that seemed to just be talk. I have a strong feeling that you are busy enough that you don't have that kind of time to waste just "blowing smoke".

Best of luck to you in your new project. Keep us informed.

I'm wondering, what is the market for a mini bolt rifle? CZ must have sold thousands of the 527's. Are the Rem M7, Browning micros and MK-X in the same class?

Can/would there be a significantly larger market, IF the CZ only had a Floorplate, IF the rem 7 had CRF, IF the MKX had CRF, etc...?

So, I believe, the market is in "pretty" complete rifles. The CRF comes in second to the bottom metal.

Don't go by me. I've liked the CZ back when it was a Tradewinds??

Rich

quote:

Can/would there be a significantly larger market, IF the CZ only had a Floorplate, IF the rem 7 had CRF, IF the MKX had CRF, etc...?

So, I believe, the market is in "pretty" complete rifles. The CRF comes in second to the bottom metal.

Two questions:
Why on is CRF considered "essential" or "desired" for a short or mini action? These thing are not going to be used as DGR's.

Isn't it a bit more complicated to make a short fat cartridge feed correctly (or at all) on a CRF type action?

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Fish30114:
I don't know about all the 'traditionalists' not liking a DBM. Get over it! if you don't want to remove it, don't!

Fish,
it's not the removable part...

it's the FUGLY part that I can't get over on a cz 527

FUGLY



NOT fugly
AMAZING

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:

These pictures have cost me a small fortune That is one beautiful barreled action.

Terry

Let's not forget the huge difference in price to go from fugly to Amazing. I too prefer the floorplate model but how many will put their money where their mouth is when it comes time to pony up?

Why doesn't the Kimber 84 get any mention for a small action?

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:
It's a Harre Mini action. Bolt diameter is around .550". I did the bolt, barrel, recut bases & rear tang etc.

Gunmaker:

Is the Harre still available?? Last I heard, they were out of production. If still available, do you have any contact info for Mr. Harre?

Thanks,


Jordan

quote:

Originally posted by Howard:
Why doesn't the Kimber 84 get any mention for a small action?

I know of one rifle builder who uses the Kimber, but the only way to get one, seems to be to cannibalize a Kimber rifle. Even after that, they modify the action quite extensively. Expensive stuff...

- mike

We are tying up the loose strings on the Mini design right now, hoping to go to prototype within the next 2-3 weeks.


Dan

update?

Dan,

How is the prototyping coming?

quote:

Originally posted by Jordan:
Gunmaker:

Is the Harre still available?? Last I heard, they were out of production. If still available, do you have any contact info for Mr. Harre?

Thanks,


Jordan

Jordan

Sorry I didn't respond to this earlier. I was pretty busy at the time and did not follow the post. I did find out that the little Harre actions are not currently available. There's rumor of more possibly being made sometime in the future. I wouldn't get any hopes up for any being done in the next two years. The problem is they take the same # of setups & machine time as a Rigby action. The Rigby actions will sell as fast as they are made for much more money than a mini action. There is a market for the mini action but it is not the same crowd as the safari hunters. So, I think Harre is concentrating on the bigger stuff at the moment. I don't have his contact info. I did talk to a smith from New Zealand that said the mini Harre actions sold in New Zealand for around $2500 USD

I hope the McGowen gets one done that sells well and can be upgraded to a similar custom look. I of course will be looking to get paid for customizing them!!

My miniX helped me get into the guild and I thought it would generate more interest being one of the very few mini actions in the room. I was surprised that the there were very few who noticed that it was a true mini. Only one person commented on the M70 style Grisel trigger.

The Mini design is finished. Unfortunately because of the time it was finished and the coinciding Shot Show it put us a few weeks behind. Now that Shot Show is over we will be meeting with one of the machine shops either this week or next week. Hopefully have our prototype by the end of the month. I expect full production in March. We should be releasing images of the Mini Action sometime in the very near future.

Dan

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:

quote:

Originally posted by Jordan:
Gunmaker:

Is the Harre still available?? Last I heard, they were out of production. If still available, do you have any contact info for Mr. Harre?

Thanks,

I hope the McGowen gets one done that sells well and can be upgraded to a similar custom look. I of course will be looking to get paid for customizing them!!

I think our Mini action will take a lot of people by surprise. It is a traditional looking receiver with a few new twists. Right now we don't know what your cost will be right now but we are shooting for under $500 in both chrome moly and stainless steel.

Dan

Just a friendly suggestion, but I wouldn't mention any pricing until you have the actions in hand. Steel might go up between now and then or you production costs might increase and I'd hate to see you committed to something that's not profitable.

quote:

Why doesn't the Kimber 84 get any mention for a small action?[/I]

[I]

Our clients have been excited by mini-ring actions (1.140 receiver ring) and we've built a LOT of them on Kimber actions. Problem is as someone mentioned, we must start with a complete Kimber rifle and they are not available in LH. We machine off the Kimber recoil lug recess and TIG on an integral lug then re-heattreat the receiver before squaring up everything and building what becomes a Serengeti TigerCat.

The future for us is to find a replacement that is CRF, 3-pos safety, straddle floorplate (like the Kimber) with magazine lengths of 3.0 and 3.6 inches in both right and left hand.

Somebody please, please, please just re-create the Sako L461.

The mini action design is complete. We are currently in negotiations with a machining company on the prototyping and production of the mini action. The design on the standard length action is about 90-95% complete. Once done we will address that action as well with the machining company. Once we have a rock solid date of production we'll jump in here and update everyone. We are also working on a couple of other projects that we hope to have completed in design and negotiations within the next month or two.

Dan

Dan

If the mini action design is complete, how about some pictures. I understand price cannot be set at this time due to negotiations for machining. A little eye candy would go a long way.

James

Dan,
Since you've quashed the rumors about going out of business, can you give us an update on the mini actions?
Blair

btt still interested still waiting

From what little I know of it, the McGowan Co. design looks like a good one for the intended purpose. The design is such the manufacturing should be relatively straight forward without the severe warpage problems encountered by some other manufacturers.
With a solid bottom, it should also make a pretty decent precision action.
It won't be a miniature square bridge Mauser but it should be a very functional and attractive action.
I don't think CRF is a critical requirement on a varmint rifle myself. I've not been a fan of detachable magazines but if the magazine is a proven unit and readily available, it should work out well. The tactical guys like 'em! Regards, Bill.

No pictures? Not even a computer-generated sketch? I'm interested...

Guys,

The Mini is "RIGHT NOW" in prototyping. The prototyping is almost complete. We should see the prototypes within the next 2 weeks (fingers crossed here). Being that it is going to be machined, we won't have any of the problems that other have encountered with warpage etc. We are using a company that does a fantastic job machining firearms parts as well as aerospace stuff. We are working hand in hand with them going over design changes and recommendations to make this a fabulous action. And good news, it will have a big brother in the 308 class of cartridges. As to images, please allow us the time to prove out the prototype before we show something completely different in design. Once we have proved out the design through destructive and functional testing we will immediately post images here and on American Gun Company's website. http://www.americangunllc.com

Dan

Do you know what process your vendor will be useing to cut the bolt raceways.
Wire EDM, progressive pull broach or single point pull broach.
Timan

This is all I need, sitting here drinking coffee and planning for a new rifle. My Ruger #1 in 400/.395 Nitro Express is currently in-process and I'm awaiting its finish.
HOWEVER, I have to have one of the new left hand mini's! My granddaughter frowns (ever get one of those little-girl-frowns?) whenever I mention "borrowing" her (my ex) .250 Savage on the Charles Daly mini.

quote:

Originally posted by Timan:
Do you know what process your vendor will be useing to cut the bolt raceways.
Wire EDM, progressive pull broach or single point pull broach.
Timan

I can't give away any secrets right now on the process but lets just say that it is going to be very tight tolerances and very smooth.

Dan

Dan,
I don't think the raceways are a big thing to keep a secret. I hope the are EDM.
Butch

Dan, you've pimped this action pretty hard on this forum. No need to get tight lipped about it now.

Terry

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:
Dan, you've pimped this action pretty hard on this forum. No need to get tight lipped about it now.

Terry

I've never been called a pimp before LOL.... Let's just say that they are cut and honed to perfection......

Dan

quote:

Originally posted by McGowenRifle:

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:
Dan, you've pimped this action pretty hard on this forum. No need to get tight lipped about it now.

Terry

I've never been called a pimp before LOL.... Let's just say that they are cut and honed to perfection......

Dan

Fair enough, it's all in good humor.

Terry

Yes, make that detachable version with a flush fitting magazine. Nothing should extend out below. How about the idea of a rotary magazine like on the Ruger 77 22 Hornet? I never understood why Ruger never adopted that idea for their Model 77 in 223. Maybe a good opportunity for you guys?!

I saw some parts cut with a wire where the water flush was repalaced with and oil flush.

The oil flush gave a surface finish that looked like a mirror!! Now that; was awesome.

The beauty of your project is there is no c-ring and such that is locking you into a traditional design.

By all means wire it.

I be willing to bet you could source a wired receiver blank for around 175.00 per piece material included.

Then you can fixture off the wired hole. Fixturing for the wired hole could also be made on the wire. Exactamundo, deadnuts accurate.

If I ever make a round action thats how I'm doing it.
TIMAN

Timan,
It would cost no more than that. Jerry Stiller,Viper Precision Firearms, did a few for folks at $100 ea. until he got too busy with his receiver business to do any more.
Butch