Holy smokes. Hats off to Mr. Shoemaker.

Well Phil has "Ole' Ugly" and now has "Ole' Tiny"

Well Done Phil. All those years of experience served you well. The pistol and ammo did too.

Sounds like the guy to have around in a tight spot.

That took a very cool head and a steady hand for such a favorable outcome with a 9mm. I'd be a little less interested in the fishing after that episode and very interested in a double martini.

Kudos for a good job, Phil.

Good shooting Phil and glad you were all safe!

Brett

Wow Phil! Exciting story. Glad you're alright.

Nice job by PS.

Amazing, 9mm is good enough to stop a raging grizz but not "enough" for self-defense.

The Solids vs. expanding on "big game" debate all over again in another context.
I am a subscriber to straight line penetration in the handgun fight context as well on 2 legged combatants. If it fails, it fails after they are down with a hole, or 3, through the vitals.

Every time I read one of these stories, or an actual attack story, I thing I'm far too casual in the bush and even my own driveway.

2 debates end here

Solid vs expanding handgun ammo and placement means everything

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
Every time I read one of these stories, or an actual attack story, I thing I'm far too casual in the bush and even my own driveway.

Exactly.

Great job Phil! I think Phil will be BB salesperson of the year!

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
That took a very cool head and a steady hand for such a favorable outcome with a 9mm. I'd be a little less interested in the fishing after that episode and very interested in a double martini.

You been talking with the clients ?

The fact is that it was an unfortunate incident and, although I had tested the Buffalo Bore ammo in a number of handgun calibers and was satisfied that it would work, there was a certain amount of luck involved.
Even though the bear was only 6 feet away, had the bear come directly for me I am certainl I would had killed it. but the fact that it went for my clients, and was between me and them, made shooting dicy as I certainly did not want to hit them !
I guess in that one situation it was a good thing that the 9mm rounds stayed in the bear. Of course it was a large male that probaly weighed over 900 pounds .

Great job Phil, good shooting. You'll go down in the hunting history books for this one. Hunters will be talking about this for a hundred years. Well done.

Kept a cool head, confidence in the ammo and his skills !!

Anyone know what hard cast alloy was in the ammo ??

Phil, is there a lot of paperwork with Alaska Fish and Wildlife after one of these incidents? My guess is yes.

Nice shooting, glad everyone is OK.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Phil, is there a lot of paperwork with Alaska Fish and Wildlife after one of these incidents? My guess is yes.

There certainly was paperwork and I called and reported the incident immediately after it happened. the real work was getting the hide and head out of the field and then into F&G.
It was a large enough old boar that my daughter and I took care to skin and flesh it so that it might be of some use to F&G.

This situation is similar to Captain Sullenberger getting that Airbus down in the Hudson River in one piece. A man trains and prepares his entire life just in case some emergency happens, and one day all those years of being ready pay off. The clients were saved. Really awesome.

Phil, I am glad you and the clients are safe. This is a lesson to all of us. Always prepare for murphey.... Kudos

I would love to see all of your writings in a book form. You can put me first on the list to buy.

After reading this though, IMHO, I will choose the 10mm as minimum. Although the 9 "got 'er dun". Any handgun is at an extreme disadvantage in a situation such as this. It's certain that this isn't Phil's first rodeo. Not everyone could have pulled this off so successfully.

Happily in this scenario with an experienced guide shooting it worked out okay. Obviously the 9 millimeter firing a magazine full of quality bullets ultimately killed it but it probably took longer than most people would want in that situation. I also read your subtle comment about penetration in this instance . Phil I wonder if you're now going to go back to your 44 Mag? Or if you would consider stepping up to a double-stack magazine 10 millimeter carrying similar quality ammunition.

PS when you skinned it out what did you determine was the Fatal shot or was it just a combination of multiple lung hits?

quote:

Originally posted by mete:
Kept a cool head, confidence in the ammo and his skills !!

Anyone know what hard cast alloy was in the ammo ??

Tim does not publish his alloy as far as I have seen-
typically his hard casts run 22 BHN or better on the ammo I have tested-

So a heat-treated NO.2 or Lino would work--
Maybe he can be enticed to post on this--


Phil, happy you and the clients are safe

Well done, Phil!

Gonna change your Signature Line from 30.06 to 9mm now??!!

quote:

Originally posted by JCS271:
Happily in this scenario with an experienced guide shooting it worked out okay. Obviously the 9 millimeter firing a magazine full of quality bullets ultimately killed it but it probably took longer than most people would want in that situation. I also read your subtle comment about penetration in this instance . Phil I wonder if you're now going to go back to your 44 Mag? Or if you would

consider stepping up to a double-stack magazine 10 millimeter carrying similar quality ammunition.

PS when you skinned it out what did you determine was the Fatal shot or was it just a combination of multiple lung hits?

Well done Phil,, I'm interested in the ? above as well. Blake is 2.5 away this summer,,I see him often.

Jim

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Phil, is there a lot of paperwork with Alaska Fish and Wildlife after one of these incidents? My guess is yes.

There certainly was paperwork and I called and reported the incident immediately after it happened. the real work was getting the hide and head out of the field and then into F&G.
It was a large enough old boar that my daughter and I took care to skin and flesh it so that it might be of some use to F&G.

It may be time to re-word your tag-line to "Anyone who claims the 9mm is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship"

So nice to see a civil discussion on AR about Phils actions vs. the whiny moronic ravings about the same article on 24 hour campfire.

The bear didn't stand a chance. I'd bet Mr. Shoemaker could hunt them with a fly swatter.

Way to go sir!

Amazing Phil. Glad you and everyone are safe. Congrats.

hello Phil,

thanks for the report and feedback.
will you continue to use your 9mm?

another Phil.

I have a great deal of respect for mister Shoemaker and I think he did a great job!
I have been using hard cast Bullets for many years and they are fantastic.
But anyone who depends on 9MM to stop a all out charge from a grizzly is asking for trouble!!!

In the circumstances he describes I can see how he killed the bear, But in a all out charge I think he would have lost.

Wayne, I have been hunting brown bears for 38 years, live within a Federal Wildlife refuge, see brown bears on nearly a daily basis and can assure you that it was an all out charge!

I am not recommending a 9mm, nor any other handgun calibers. The 357, 44 and larger rounds do give deeper penetration, and would be my choice if I knew I had to face a charge with a handgun, but loaded with proper bullets the 9mm does work.

I have been out in Wyoming on a back backing trip and just saw this.

Good shooting Phil but why didn't you use bear spray that you have highly recommended that people carry.

Personally I have always recommended a good firearm for bear protection.

I have carried my 3913 at times on this last trip I carried my Ti 41 mag.

Phil carries a gun to cover the folks using bear spray...

What a Dickhead you are to ?? Phil !!! Lots of times us bush dewelers don'thave any weapons on our person,, at times it's only a 22. Bearspray only would help if the bear is downwind,,MAYBE!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Wayne74:
I have a great deal of respect for mister Shoemaker and I think he did a great job!
I have been using hard cast Bullets for many years and they are fantastic.
But anyone who depends on 9MM to stop a all out charge from a grizzly is asking for trouble!!!

In the circumstances he describes I can see how he killed the bear, But in a all out charge I think he would have lost.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by waterrat:
What a Dickhead you are to ?? Phil !!! Lots of times us bush dewelers don'thave any weapons on our person,, at times it's only a 22. Bearspray only would help if the bear is downwind,,MAYBE!!! [QUOTE]Originally posted by Wayne74:

I only question Phil's not using spray because in past posts he recommended the use of spray as better then a firearm.

Then the one time he has to actual defend human life in a non hunting situation he uses a firearm.

If Phil had not been so adamant in recommending spray over a firearm in the past I would not be questioning him.

He brought on the question himself by his recommendation on using spray instead of a firearm.

As a guide I'm sure Phil was aware of the wind direction,,,if the wind is in your face you are just seasoning yourself!

I myself would never trust or carry spray for bear protection. Maybe in a city though..

Stick to spraying prairie dogs,,,

I fail to see where "what Phil said before" really matter in an instance that everything worked out and all parties are safe. Sometimes we all do something different than we said at one point. Don't make it wrong. We can change our standard operating procedure anytime we want. Don't have to clear that with anyone on the internet first.