The Accurate Reloading Forums
Nice job Phil Shoemaker
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
10 August 2016, 20:32
PSmithHoly smokes. Hats off to Mr. Shoemaker.
Paul Smith
SCI Life Member
NRA Life Member
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Life Member of the "I Can't Wait to Get Back to Africa" Club
DRSS
I had the privilege to fire E. Hemingway's WR .577NE, E. Keith's WR .470NE, & F. Jamieson's WJJ .500 Jeffery
I strongly recommend avoidance of "The Zambezi Safari & Travel Co., Ltd." and "Pisces Sportfishing-Cabo San Lucas"
"A failed policy of national defense is its own punishment" Otto von Bismarck
10 August 2016, 20:39
Fury01Well Phil has "Ole' Ugly" and now has "Ole' Tiny"
Well Done Phil. All those years of experience served you well. The pistol and ammo did too.
"The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights."
~George Washington - 1789
10 August 2016, 20:42
buckeyeshooterSounds like the guy to have around in a tight spot.
10 August 2016, 20:48
Bill/OregonThat took a very cool head and a steady hand for such a favorable outcome with a 9mm. I'd be a little less interested in the fishing after that episode and very interested in a double martini.
There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t.
– John Green, author
10 August 2016, 20:54
GrenadierKudos for a good job, Phil.
.
10 August 2016, 21:32
BrettAKSCIGood shooting Phil and glad you were all safe!
Brett
DRSS
Life Member SCI
Life Member NRA
Life Member WSF
Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter
May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick.
And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too.
May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep.
May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip.
-Seth Peterson
10 August 2016, 21:39
martWow Phil! Exciting story. Glad you're alright.
"...I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprize, and independance to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks." Thomas Jefferson
10 August 2016, 22:31
NortonNice job by PS.
Amazing, 9mm is good enough to stop a raging grizz but not "enough" for self-defense.
10 August 2016, 23:34
Fury01The Solids vs. expanding on "big game" debate all over again in another context.
I am a subscriber to straight line penetration in the handgun fight context as well on 2 legged combatants. If it fails, it fails after they are down with a hole, or 3, through the vitals.
"The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights."
~George Washington - 1789
10 August 2016, 23:45
FrostbitEvery time I read one of these stories, or an actual attack story, I thing I'm far too casual in the bush and even my own driveway.
11 August 2016, 01:13
ted thorn2 debates end here
Solid vs expanding handgun ammo and placement means everything
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11 August 2016, 01:47
A7Davequote:
Originally posted by Frostbit:
Every time I read one of these stories, or an actual attack story, I thing I'm far too casual in the bush and even my own driveway.
Exactly.
Dave
11 August 2016, 05:24
boom stickGreat job Phil! I think Phil will be BB salesperson of the year!
11 August 2016, 12:21
458Winquote:
Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
That took a very cool head and a steady hand for such a favorable outcome with a 9mm. I'd be a little less interested in the fishing after that episode and very interested in a double martini.
You been talking with the clients ?
The fact is that it was an unfortunate incident and, although I had tested the Buffalo Bore ammo in a number of handgun calibers and was satisfied that it would work, there was a certain amount of luck involved.
Even though the bear was only 6 feet away, had the bear come directly for me I am certainl I would had killed it. but the fact that it went for my clients, and was between me and them, made shooting dicy as I certainly did not want to hit them !
I guess in that one situation it was a good thing that the 9mm rounds stayed in the bear. Of course it was a large male that probaly weighed over 900 pounds .
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
Alaska Master guide
FAA Master pilot
NRA Benefactor
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com 11 August 2016, 16:31
swampshooterGreat job Phil, good shooting. You'll go down in the hunting history books for this one. Hunters will be talking about this for a hundred years. Well done.
velocity is like a new car, always losing value.
BC is like diamonds, holding value forever.
11 August 2016, 17:39
meteKept a cool head, confidence in the ammo and his skills !!
Anyone know what hard cast alloy was in the ammo ??
11 August 2016, 19:53
Bill/OregonPhil, is there a lot of paperwork with Alaska Fish and Wildlife after one of these incidents? My guess is yes.
There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t.
– John Green, author
11 August 2016, 19:58
LapidaryNice shooting, glad everyone is OK.
11 August 2016, 21:29
458Winquote:
Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Phil, is there a lot of paperwork with Alaska Fish and Wildlife after one of these incidents? My guess is yes.
There certainly was paperwork and I called and reported the incident immediately after it happened. the real work was getting the hide and head out of the field and then into F&G.
It was a large enough old boar that my daughter and I took care to skin and flesh it so that it might be of some use to F&G.
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
Alaska Master guide
FAA Master pilot
NRA Benefactor
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com 11 August 2016, 22:13
PSmithThis situation is similar to Captain Sullenberger getting that Airbus down in the Hudson River in one piece. A man trains and prepares his entire life just in case some emergency happens, and one day all those years of being ready pay off. The clients were saved. Really awesome.
Paul Smith
SCI Life Member
NRA Life Member
DSC Member
Life Member of the "I Can't Wait to Get Back to Africa" Club
DRSS
I had the privilege to fire E. Hemingway's WR .577NE, E. Keith's WR .470NE, & F. Jamieson's WJJ .500 Jeffery
I strongly recommend avoidance of "The Zambezi Safari & Travel Co., Ltd." and "Pisces Sportfishing-Cabo San Lucas"
"A failed policy of national defense is its own punishment" Otto von Bismarck
12 August 2016, 00:33
mlfgunsPhil, I am glad you and the clients are safe. This is a lesson to all of us. Always prepare for murphey.... Kudos
I would love to see all of your writings in a book form. You can put me first on the list to buy.
12 August 2016, 04:29
swampshooterAfter reading this though, IMHO, I will choose the 10mm as minimum. Although the 9 "got 'er dun". Any handgun is at an extreme disadvantage in a situation such as this. It's certain that this isn't Phil's first rodeo. Not everyone could have pulled this off so successfully.
velocity is like a new car, always losing value.
BC is like diamonds, holding value forever.
12 August 2016, 05:22
JCS271Happily in this scenario with an experienced guide shooting it worked out okay. Obviously the 9 millimeter firing a magazine full of quality bullets ultimately killed it but it probably took longer than most people would want in that situation. I also read your subtle comment about penetration in this instance . Phil I wonder if you're now going to go back to your 44 Mag? Or if you would consider stepping up to a double-stack magazine 10 millimeter carrying similar quality ammunition.
PS when you skinned it out what did you determine was the Fatal shot or was it just a combination of multiple lung hits?
"The difference between adventure and disaster is preparation."
"The problem with quoting info from the internet is that you can never be sure it is accurate" Abraham Lincoln
12 August 2016, 05:40
DuggaBoyequote:
Originally posted by mete:
Kept a cool head, confidence in the ammo and his skills !!
Anyone know what hard cast alloy was in the ammo ??
Tim does not publish his alloy as far as I have seen-
typically his hard casts run 22 BHN or better on the ammo I have tested-
So a heat-treated NO.2 or Lino would work--
Maybe he can be enticed to post on this--
Phil, happy you and the clients are safe
DuggaBoye-O
NRA-Life
Whittington-Life
TSRA-Life
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SCI
12 August 2016, 06:25
A10ACNWell done, Phil!
Gonna change your Signature Line from 30.06 to 9mm now??!!
12 August 2016, 08:13
waterratquote:
Originally posted by JCS271:
Happily in this scenario with an experienced guide shooting it worked out okay. Obviously the 9 millimeter firing a magazine full of quality bullets ultimately killed it but it probably took longer than most people would want in that situation. I also read your subtle comment about penetration in this instance . Phil I wonder if you're now going to go back to your 44 Mag? Or if you would
consider stepping up to a double-stack magazine 10 millimeter carrying similar quality ammunition.
PS when you skinned it out what did you determine was the Fatal shot or was it just a combination of multiple lung hits?
Well done Phil,, I'm interested in the ? above as well. Blake is 2.5 away this summer,,I see him often.
Jim
I tend to use more than enough gun
12 August 2016, 12:04
A7Davequote:
Originally posted by 458Win:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Phil, is there a lot of paperwork with Alaska Fish and Wildlife after one of these incidents? My guess is yes.
There certainly was paperwork and I called and reported the incident immediately after it happened. the real work was getting the hide and head out of the field and then into F&G.
It was a large enough old boar that my daughter and I took care to skin and flesh it so that it might be of some use to F&G.
It may be time to re-word your tag-line to "Anyone who claims the 9mm is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship"
Dave
12 August 2016, 21:54
hikerbumSo nice to see a civil discussion on AR about Phils actions vs. the whiny moronic ravings about the same article on 24 hour campfire.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
12 August 2016, 23:50
Rick RThe bear didn't stand a chance. I'd bet Mr. Shoemaker could hunt them with a fly swatter.
Way to go sir!
13 August 2016, 01:57
chuck375Amazing Phil. Glad you and everyone are safe. Congrats.
Regards,
Chuck
"There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit"
Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"
13 August 2016, 08:46
medvedhello Phil,
thanks for the report and feedback.
will you continue to use your 9mm?
another Phil.
15 August 2016, 04:34
Wayne74I have a great deal of respect for mister Shoemaker and I think he did a great job!
I have been using hard cast Bullets for many years and they are fantastic.
But anyone who depends on 9MM to stop a all out charge from a grizzly is asking for trouble!!!
In the circumstances he describes I can see how he killed the bear, But in a all out charge I think he would have lost.
Wayne Johnson
15 August 2016, 14:03
458WinWayne, I have been hunting brown bears for 38 years, live within a Federal Wildlife refuge, see brown bears on nearly a daily basis and can assure you that it was an all out charge!
I am not recommending a 9mm, nor any other handgun calibers. The 357, 44 and larger rounds do give deeper penetration, and would be my choice if I knew I had to face a charge with a handgun, but loaded with proper bullets the 9mm does work.
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
Alaska Master guide
FAA Master pilot
NRA Benefactor
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com 22 August 2016, 05:38
p dog shooterI have been out in Wyoming on a back backing trip and just saw this.
Good shooting Phil but why didn't you use bear spray that you have highly recommended that people carry.
Personally I have always recommended a good firearm for bear protection.
I have carried my 3913 at times on this last trip I carried my Ti 41 mag.
22 August 2016, 05:54
FourtyonesixPhil carries a gun to cover the folks using bear spray...
22 August 2016, 06:07
waterratWhat a Dickhead you are to ?? Phil !!! Lots of times us bush dewelers don'thave any weapons on our person,, at times it's only a 22. Bearspray only would help if the bear is downwind,,MAYBE!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Wayne74:
I have a great deal of respect for mister Shoemaker and I think he did a great job!
I have been using hard cast Bullets for many years and they are fantastic.
But anyone who depends on 9MM to stop a all out charge from a grizzly is asking for trouble!!!
In the circumstances he describes I can see how he killed the bear, But in a all out charge I think he would have lost.
I tend to use more than enough gun
22 August 2016, 06:56
p dog shooter[QUOTE]Originally posted by waterrat:
What a Dickhead you are to ?? Phil !!! Lots of times us bush dewelers don'thave any weapons on our person,, at times it's only a 22. Bearspray only would help if the bear is downwind,,MAYBE!!! [QUOTE]Originally posted by Wayne74:
I only question Phil's not using spray because in past posts he recommended the use of spray as better then a firearm.
Then the one time he has to actual defend human life in a non hunting situation he uses a firearm.
If Phil had not been so adamant in recommending spray over a firearm in the past I would not be questioning him.
He brought on the question himself by his recommendation on using spray instead of a firearm.
22 August 2016, 07:06
waterratAs a guide I'm sure Phil was aware of the wind direction,,,if the wind is in your face you are just seasoning yourself!
I myself would never trust or carry spray for bear protection. Maybe in a city though..
Stick to spraying prairie dogs,,,
I tend to use more than enough gun
22 August 2016, 07:15
FourtyonesixI fail to see where "what Phil said before" really matter in an instance that everything worked out and all parties are safe. Sometimes we all do something different than we said at one point. Don't make it wrong. We can change our standard operating procedure anytime we want. Don't have to clear that with anyone on the internet first.