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Looking for a new handgun for packing/hunting trips here in Colorado, and to carry on my annual trips in the Alaskan back country. I already have a Smith 629 .44 that started life with an 8-3/8" barrel, that I had Smith put a 4" barrel on. I carried the 629 for years, but I am going to put the 8-3/8 barrel back on it because it is fun to shoot and is a tack driver with the long barrel. However, I will need (want an excuse) to replace it. I keep going back and forth with trying to decide on whether to buy another 4" 629, a 4" 329, or go another direction and either get one of the Ruger Talo .454 Super Redhawks or cut a standard Super Redhawk back to 4 or so inches, or go with a Glock 20 in 10mm. I know, all are very different guns. I already load for and am familiar with the .44 Magnum, and the 629 would be familiar. I am not recoil shy with handguns and have shot a friend's 4" Bowen Redhawk .500 Linebaugh (not fun, but manageable), so I can live with the recoil from the Smith 329 or the .454 Ruger. I am also used to striker-fire autos, so adjusting to the Glock would not be a big issue. The Ruger would be heavier than the others, but I like the idea of the versatility and the additional umph at the upper end. The Glock 20 in 10mm is a completely different consideration, but sure changes the equation in terms of firepower. In a perfect world I would have Bowen build me a .454 on the Redhawk frame, buy another 4" 629, and buy a Glock 20, or buy all three in off-the-shelf versions, but I can only afford one and it is not a Bowen custom. So what would you do, and more importantly, why? One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got into my pajamas I'll never know. - Groucho Marx | ||
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Get either a Ruger Alaskan or a Ruger Toklat in 454. The Toklat is a special run item but they are around for about $850. | |||
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Hi LJS. Please post why. In this case, the why is of more interest than the what. Thanks. Dave One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got into my pajamas I'll never know. - Groucho Marx | |||
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I'll chime in here. I have a Redhawk Alaskan and think its great. Recoil with 400 grain hardcast is severe. But there are a few load options out there. Also very versatile as you can use 45 LC, and cut it for a moon clip and use .45 ACP. It is heavy, but it needs to be heavy. Perfect for where the really big bears live. If you are going to spend a lot of time in Grizz country I would consider it (with a chest holster) The regular redhawk .44 mags have a longer chamber and beefier as well. I have a 5 1/2" and I know they make a 4" now. You can shoot the extra heavy cast bear loads in these guns that you are unable to do in a Colt or Smith. That is a good option as well. A little heavier than the other 2 .44's The other option that I use is a Glock 20 10mm loaded with 200 grain bullets. Great gun, easy to shoot well and 15+1 capacity. Others use 10MM 1911's, same idea. FMJ's would be good penetrators, and a heavy duty hollowpoint good all around, 2 and 4 legged critters. I got all 3 so I feel pretty well armed. The Glock gets carried way more and I think is the most useful of the 3, but a full power .454 with heavy hard cast flat points is a bear killer for sure. The glock is way easier to shoot well and faster follow up shots. The .44 would be in the middle. Since you have a .44 go casull and get the cylinder cut for moonclip and you can shoot all 3 loads in it. In AK it would be very useful My 2 cents White Mountains Arizona | |||
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I have a 5.5 7.5 and 4 inch Red hawks load the with 315 hard cast at around 1200 to 1300 depending on the pistol and they well work just fine. I also have a 5 shot Taurus tracker but I shoot the 315s out of that at around 1050 it only weights 30 oz. Why because I have reloading stuff for the 44 and no 454 been thinking about one but haven't found one on the free market. | |||
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I have a Ruger Alaskan in .454, and I love it. It is really worth a look. I have found it to be very accurate and the recoil to be very manageable. | |||
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I received the following from LJS and thought I would throw it into the mix for everyone's benefit.
One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got into my pajamas I'll never know. - Groucho Marx | |||
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I have edited the post a bit. I had not thought about the 10mm Glock, but now you guys have given me more to mull over. One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got into my pajamas I'll never know. - Groucho Marx | |||
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Jake Jefferson could weigh in here I believe he carries a 1911 10mm. His theory, and he would know I think, is the idea to turn a bear not necessarily kill it in its tracks. Was on another thread here somewhere. The full power 10mm loads I use is 200 grains at 1300 FPS out of the 4.3" barrel. That's pretty stout for an autoloader Hi cap. Get a little more out of a 5" 1911. .41 mag ballistics with 15+1 and a fast reload White Mountains Arizona | |||
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Heck I would be pretty happy with a +P .45 ACP with heavy hardcast. But the 10mm at full power (730+ ft/lbs) is hard to beat as long as your bullet can penetrate.
White Mountains Arizona | |||
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I have a Springfield V16 Longslide in 45 Super. Buffalo Bore sells 255g hardcast at 1090 fps for it. My own loads are 230g bonded Golden Sabre's at 1150 fps. It's a nice option but they're hard to find. https://www.buffalobore.com/in...=product_detail&p=76  Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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you're used to a smith -why change from it. if youf want more power go to a bigger round. sorry if i sound prejudice but ruger is a club (so is that huge 500 smith) and gluck is a beer | |||
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I have carried a 29 for years as both a field gun and concealed carry gun. As I am very comfortable with the platform, I went to a 500 SW. I like the 6 1/2 inch for field carry so I got a 6 1/2 inch 500 for field work. You might look at this; http://www.smith-wesson.com/wc..._lg/151189_01_lg.jpg Reason being of course, biggest boomer in a known package. A 325 grain Barnes XTP at 2000fps will equal 45/70 power in a handgun. Recoil on this load is less than a hot loaded 300 gain xtp in my 3 inch 29! | |||
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Lots to consider in this question. I have a super Redhawk in 44, an S&W 629 and I just sold a Glock 20 because I ordered a Glock G40 MOS which is the 6" long slide version 10mm. I envisioned the Ruger and S&W as chest holster pistols for fishing and either the 629 or Glock for Alaskan deer hunting. Realistically, I'll probably carry a rifle and one of the pistols for deer hunting. A handgun is a poor proxy for a rifle. People debate whether a revolver or pistol should be used for bear defense. Some say a Glock 10mm gives you 16 rounds of 200 grain hardcast firepower while others argue revolvers may offer fewer rounds but how many shots are you actually gonna get to shoot in a defense of life situation? (If you are handgun hunting bears that changes my perspective substantially) Still others argue, if the bear gets on top of you and you jam the autoloading pistol into the body or head of the bear you risk taking it out of battery preventing it from firing. Others argue that simply cannot happen with a revolver. I'm on the fence on the issue because I rendered a Super Redhawk completely inoperable on a brown bear hunt and I'm not even sure how. What I know is the cylinder would not swing open, the hammer would not cock and Ruger told me the revolver was unrepairable and offered to sell me a new one....which I bought at a reasonable price. I think more important than caliber is the ability to accurately shoot something running at you or surprising you in the brush. I have no doubt any of your choices will penetrate a bear skull at close range. The question is can you hit it? The more comfortable you are with shooting the handgun the better. That's the view from my seat on the bus. | |||
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IMHO a 4 inch S&W 44 Mag is the best all round field/hunters handgun. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Having a 4in. Barrel made for my 629 is a neat idea -- wondering what it would cost ? DRSS Chapuis 9.3 x 74 R RSM. 416 Rigby RSM 375 H&H | |||
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What loads were you using in the Redhawk? So what's your best guess? why it stopped working | |||
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Check out one of the new S&W model 69s in 44 mag before you decide. | |||
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Bearcat, I sent the gun to Smith and they fitted the barrel for $225, including the cost of the barrel. Mikelravy - I looked at the Model 69, and decided I would rather buy a used 629 Mountain Gun if i wanted to save some of the 4 oz. difference in weight between the standard 4" 629 and the 69. I am very comfortable with either the 4" 629 or a striker-fired (DAO) semi-auto like the Glock. Sort of a six of one, half dozen of the other thing. I realize that a handgun is not the ideal bear stopper, but it is better than nothing. A handgun verses a long gun is really more about convenience of carry when not actively hunting. One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got into my pajamas I'll never know. - Groucho Marx | |||
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You might want to consider the S&W 69 in .44 Magnum. I recently bought one and am quite happy with it. I had been looking for a Mountain Gun when they brought out the M69. It is a 5-shot .44 on the J frame, and weighs a few ounces less than the Mountain Gun. As it is a 5-shot, the notches in the cylinder are between the chambers, so the chamber walls are actually thicker than on the M29. The M69 also seems to be accurate, though I have a little trouble seeing the iron sights as I get older. | |||
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I think you meant K frame | |||
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Actually, according to Smith & Wesson the 69 is built on an L frame. One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got into my pajamas I'll never know. - Groucho Marx | |||
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After going through 1/2 dozen handguns I now carry a 4" S&W Mod 25. It's light easy to carry and is full of 300gr hardcst @ 900 fps. I've shot 1000's of lighter loads through it and am familiar with it. On my hip except when I have waders on and then in a Dirty Harry type of shoulder holster. | |||
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Yes, the Model 69 is on the L frame, not the J frame. I knew what I wanted to say, but my typing skills are somewhat limited. Anyway, the Model 69 I think is a great handgun, and about as small as I would want to go in a .44 Magnum. | |||
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Well J K and L are all right next to each other on the keyboard.  So, to avoid all of the typing confusion, I bought a GLOCK 20 as my everyday trail gun. Lightweight, reliable, accurate, affordable and plenty of penetration with good ammo."The difference between adventure and disaster is preparation." "The problem with quoting info from the internet is that you can never be sure it is accurate" Abraham Lincoln | |||
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Anyway you look at it a glock is going to have the better trigger. I have a 3.5 connector in my 20 (and all of my Glocks) and shoot handguns like this competitively so I will comfortably say you will be better shooting this than a double action revolver. unless you are Jerry Miculek. If you are going for ergonomics and shootability Glock wins over revo. Only real drawback is power
White Mountains Arizona | |||
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p dog shooter, I was using 300 grain Federal CastCores. Although I didn't get to load the revolver. My only guess as to what happened to the SRH is I had it in a large duffle. When we set up camp, I picked up and tossed the duffle to the side to get it out of the way to set up the tent. My revolver may have found its way to the bottom of the duffle and when I tossed it aside, the revolver may have impacted on the ground and bent the yoke. I discovered the problem after we had camp setup and I went to load the revolver. When we got out of the bush, I stopped by Wild West Guns to have them take a look at it and they weren't sure of the problem but said the yoke might have been bent and to send it back to Ruger. Ruger didn't explain the problem, they only stated in their letter it was beyond repair. So, the moral of the story is revolvers can also be damaged in the field and rendered inoperable. I now treat all my handguns a bit more carefully after having had this happen. | |||
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I have been carrying this 1st model S&W 44 Mtn gun for the past 15 years and before that I carried a M-65 .357. I gave it to my daughter when she turned 16 . With Norma FNJ 180 gr bullets both it and the 44 with anything from 240 gr and up hard cast bullets will shoot through a bears head or break the large neck bones.  But whatever you carry you need to be able to shoot well and quickly and have faith in it's penetration  Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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Phil, those skulls are huge....in my non professional opinion. Glad to see that you mentioned the .357. So many people avoide it now days, but it's a great round and does more than many people realize. Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum | |||
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Went through this awhile ago myself. Bought the S&W PC 460 snubbie. Carry Double Tap 335 HC in Long Colt for bear/moose repellant. It is a chunk of steel at 59 ounces. I carry it in Double D guide's chest rig. Of course as soon as I spent the money, and got everything together, Glock came out with a 10mm with the slide already cut out for a RMR. Had I to do it all over again, I'd get a Lone Wolf 10mm barrel, the G40, and put the RMR on it shooting HC. I'd get someone to modify the Double D chest rig for a RMR, and call it a day. | |||
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No flies on the .357 Magnum. However, my general theory is shoot the biggest gun appropriate for the task that you can shoot well. For me the .44 Magnum is not a problem in those regards, as I have shot mine quite a bit, so am accurate and comfortable with it. What I am leaning towards is saving my pennies and finding a 629 Mountain Gun for Alaska where a little more horsepower is appreciated, and buying a Glock 20 for here in Colorado where a little more firepower is appreciated. The difference in my mind is that the areas where I hike in Alaska I am more concerned about bears. Here in Colorado, people are more of a concern, though the 10mm should be adequate to dissuade even a large black bear. Much as I would like a .454, for my purposes it does not seem to offer enough advantages over the .44 Magnum to justify it. One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got into my pajamas I'll never know. - Groucho Marx | |||
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The difference between experience and theory. Phil is a doer. | |||
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Thanks for the reply Phil. I value your opinion much more than some of these guys who've shot a couple of deer and hogs and stayed at a Holiday Inn last night. I carry my 41 mag when I'm in Alaska fishing, loaded with 230 gr. hardcast WFN. I had serious doubts about it's ability but if a 357, 180 will do it so will my 41. Thanks again for your reply. Hope I never have to use it though. velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
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I thought about getting a swc or a wfn nose for my 357 in 200gr weight. it would give great penetration for sure I had no trouble shooting through black bears with my 41 The 44 with 315 wfn at 1320 well shoot through 4 plus feet of bear seen it happen. Bullet entered the chest and exited the rear ham. | |||
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I was mistaken on my bullet weights for the .41 mag. They are 250 gr. not 230. I'm a rifle hunter so haven't shot anything with my .41 except using it for the a coup de grace. velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
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Not enough different to worry about | |||
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Not really, but the 250 might be a little better at breaking bone. velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
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I shoot a 210gr hard cast out of my 41 TI at only 1050fps hasn't had trouble shooting through several bears I finished off with it. | |||
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A 210 at a bit over 1,000 is what I carry in mine except when I'm in Alaska. Were those big brown bears that you shot through with it or black bears? velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
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I know of no handgun that will stop one of these guys with anything other than a CNS hit. And for that a .357 with 180 or 200 gr hard cast or fully jacketed or any other caliber giving 1000fps with a heavy for caliber bullet should work. And most of the super powerful handguns are difficult to control and getting a second shot off is a lot slower than with moderate calibers. Two quick shots with a 357, where one actually hits the brain, will be more effective than a 480 or 500 that hit somewhere near the shoulder.  Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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