sep...

True story. Once upon a time while at the range with a buddy...
He was shooting a brand new S&W Mod 19 in 357 Mag. He and I both had shot the revolver around 60 rounds or so. He accidently bumped the revolver and it fell off the bench onto the concrete pad. When we tried to sjhoot it after that the cylinder would not lock up correctly so te firing pin would hit the primer shooting double action.

So, as in your experience, a revolver can be put out of action by rough handling...

Also I totally agree with Phil.

IMHO, any handgun that has much more recoil than full power 44 mag loads, is too much of a good thing for a Bear PROTECTION handgun...

When ever I hunted with my FA 475 Linebaugh, with full power loads, I always carried either a 1911 or a 4" 44 S&W Mag, for animal PROTECTION.

Well that's a pretty good endorsement for a G20

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
I know of no handgun that will stop one of these guys with anything other than a CNS hit. And for that a .357 with 180 or 200 gr hard cast or fully jacketed or any other caliber giving 1000fps with a heavy for caliber bullet should work.
And most of the super powerful handguns are difficult to control and getting a second shot off is a lot slower than with moderate calibers. Two quick shots with a 357, where one actually hits the brain, will be more effective than a 480 or 500 that hit somewhere near the shoulder.

And ever seen a Glock not function due to rough handling? Didn't think so.....

How do you argue with Phil? Very cool to see him post on here.

I had an loved a wheel gun in 41 mag, used it for years. The feel of it vs. the feel of a Glock...the Glock is almost gross but it's a tool.

I chose the Glock 10mm a few years ago for this reason in Phil's earlier post: "And most of the super powerful handguns are difficult to control and getting a second shot off is a lot slower than with moderate calibers."

For me there was no comparison between how many hits and number of rounds down (close) range I could get rushing shots with a Glock semi-auto vs. a revolver. I write "rushing" because if i was ever in that situation I'd most likely be shitting myself while shooting. Some of you might be way cooler/steadier under extreme pressure!

The 10mm Glock is appealing and I too have looked at them due to their user friendliness and ability to put out a lot of lead accurately and quickly. They are a great tool.
But I have carried S&W revolvers for 40 years, and practice quick, instinctive shooting by throwing small targets into the air and shooting double action. I have faith in them, which is important when you are betting your life on it.

I might also feel that way with a Glock with a little experience.

What has always concerned me is that the bullet would ricochet off of the sloping head and fail to penetrate. How would you minimize this? Would one style of bullet be substantially better than another? I'm using a heavy cast WFN 250 gr. in my .41 mag. hoping that it would be the answer, but I really don't know.

I think the old bullet ricocheting off a bears skull must be scary over from the blackpowder era and round lead balls.
A heavy cast WFN is about the least likely load to ricochet .

quote:

Originally posted by swampshooter:
What has always concerned me is that the bullet would ricochet off of the sloping head and fail to penetrate.

I hear you but what concerns me is actually hitting anything at all and hitting it as many times as possible, not skull penetration. Trained police lose gun fights regularly and I'm a far cry from them. Many shots quickly, at least for me.

In Montana the chances of an encounter are so slim, even right outside Yellowstone Park's hunting closure zone, that is almost worrying over nothing. In Alaska it's got to be a very different story.

I've been thru this question many times in my head. Many many times as. I'm sure most bush Alaskans that r gun nuts have. I've packed most of the carts mentioned here with the exception of the 460+500 .
I now pack a Glock 20 with Lone Wolf OEM length SS barrel ss guide rod and 22 lb spring. I shoot Buffalo Bore 220 gr TC hard cast loads that chronographed 1200 fps + from the gun.
The reason I switched is I can hit far better and faster with it than I can with a revolver. Hits are what count. And confidence.
I don't start fights with bears with a handgun. But if things go bad like the bear or moose won't leave and I can't either. Then I have confidence I can keep me and mine safe with the Glock.

quote:

Originally posted by gunslinger55:
And ever seen a Glock not function due to rough handling? Didn't think so.....

Haven't been around many street cops have you they can do amazing things to any fire arm they carry

quote:

hear you but what concerns me is actually hitting anything at all and hitting it as many times as possible, not skull penetration. Trained police lose gun fights regularly and I'm a far cry from them. Many shots quickly, at least for me.

Having trained many hundreds of LEOs most are not very good shots. For 90 percent their side arm is something they have to have on their belt.

7 percent are decent shots.

3 percent are gun guys and shoot a lot and rank up right up there.

I shoot semis and revolvers equal well many 10 of thousands of round through each type.

For woods work I prefer a good revolver but had carried a semi auto also.

A hot loaded 357 41 44 mag and bigger bored revolvers are a hand full for fast 2nd shots.

Carry what you like that's what I do.

No flies on a 220gr bullet at 1200 fps no matter what its shot out of.

Thanks Phil, your reply is greatly appreciated and highly valued. IMHO experience is 10 times more valuable than book theory.

I do not own a Glock as I don't particularly cotton to plastic firearms, but I do own both 44 Magnums and a 7-1/2" Model 83 in 454 Casull. I will unequivocally state that recoil of the two cartridges are night and day. The 44 is completely controllable, even in 4", and although the same can be said about the 7-1/2" Casull, the recoil is quite vigorous, and more than most are comfortable with.

FWIW, my load in the FA is 25 grains of WC 820 behind my own hard cast 325 grain SWCS, dropped from a Hensley and Gibbs mould.

I would far better take my chances with whichever round I shoot the best. I fail to believe the bear would ever know the difference...

That load sounds pretty good I will have to get some

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
I've been thru this question many times in my head. Many many times as. I'm sure most bush Alaskans that r gun nuts have. I've packed most of the carts mentioned here with the exception of the 460+500 .
I now pack a Glock 20 with Lone Wolf OEM length SS barrel ss guide rod and 22 lb spring. I shoot Buffalo Bore 220 gr TC hard cast loads that chronographed 1200 fps + from the gun.
The reason I switched is I can hit far better and faster with it than I can with a revolver. Hits are what count. And confidence.
I don't start fights with bears with a handgun. But if things go bad like the bear or moose won't leave and I can't either. Then I have confidence I can keep me and mine safe with the Glock.

Double your pleasure, double your fun! I couldn't decide on one gun, but I found a .44 Magnum 629-5 Mountain Gun for a really good price which I bought, and I have a Glock 20 in 10mm on order through my local dealer. The Glock will also get a .22 LR conversion kit so I can shoot it at home without rattling the neighbor's cages too much.

One of the great things about the G20 is it loves 40S+W ammo. When I first got mine, I didn't have any 10mm ammo but did have 40 ammo. It feeds,fires and ejects 100% . Its accurate and produces full velocity for 40 S+W. . To date I have been unable to get my G20 to malfunction with any ammo that chambers in it. 3 different 10mm and 7 different 40 . I have friends that have killed black bear. Up to 6 1/2' square with their 40 S+W duty pistols with body shots. So even if a guy is out of 10mm ammo. The gun is still useful. And with a 22 lr conversion kit it would really be something. Also for any that would like to shoot lots of 40 in their G20. A Lone Wolf drop in 40 S+W barrel is available.
Yesterday we did our biannual town trip. I could only find 1 load of 10 mm at Sportsman's Warehouse in Wasilla. But they had lots of 40. They did have Hornady TiNi dies and plenty of 10mm bullets tho so I got a set and some bullets. No one had any Accurate #7 or IMR 800X or Blue Dot. But, I have some powder that will poke a bullet out of the barrel.

For anyone wanting 454 like performance from their Ruger or FA 44 mag revolvers. Buffalo Bore has a 340 gr WLN +P+ load that chronographs over 1400 fps from a 7 1/2" Super Blackhawk. In penetration tests it is similar to the 335 gr 454 ammo. And it has a wider meplate than the 325 gr cast bullet BB loads in the 45 Colt +P ammo. Flat out penetrates any 45 Colt ammo I have shot. No doubt a 5 shot 45 Colt could be loaded to equal it.
There is a world of difference between shooting the 10 and the high velocity , heavy bullet revolvers tho.
My next experiment is to try a reflex sight on my G20. Like the Burris FastFire or Leupold. I make my own holsters so it shouldn't be a problem making either an iwb or full flap belt holster.

Here in central WA seeing even a small black bear is rare so I usually carry a Glock 20 though occasionally I'll go back to my 686 for the ability to fire shotshells (for snakes).
I like the 10mm because it's a bit more powerful than the .357 in all but the biggest revolvers and a substantial increase in capacity.

My .454 makes me comfortable even when saber tooth wooly mammoths are circling my camp at night. It's certainly not something I can shoot as fast as the Glock but with practice I can get two shots off pretty quickly (any more than two and I have to readjust my grip, even the FA 83 grip rolls in my hand). The trick is practice but it's not a fun (or inexpensive) round to practice with.

ETA: My favorite carry system for an outdoor gun has become my HPG Kit Bag. I wasn't sure I'd like it at first but it keeps my sidearm easily accessible yet completely hidden from the elements.

quote:

One of the great things about the G20 is it loves 40S+W ammo.

It is head spacing off the extractor not a good thing. Your getting away with it but your pushing your luck. Your asking for a weaken or broken extractor.

Shooting short rounds in a semi-auto is not the same as like 38spl in a 357.

Yes, and now that I have some 10mm dies , brass and bullets. However the fact is that it does work with 40 ammo so that's bettern a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.
The fact that it is accurate with the 40 is a bonus.

If you want to shoot .40 S&W in a Glock 20, just get a .40 S&W barrel for the gun from Lone Wolf Distributors. According to their website, it is a drop-in change, with everything else staying the same as for the 10mm.

The .480 Ruger must be dead, eh?

This thread has really gone the Glock route it seems.......

I certainly think the Glock is a reasonable and sane choice and will most likely give one a try just to make an honest comparison.

I'm glad I brought it up LOL heck I am going to rethink it myself vs. the others

quote:

Originally posted by loud-n-boomer:
If you want to shoot .40 S&W in a Glock 20, just get a .40 S&W barrel for the gun from Lone Wolf Distributors. According to their website, it is a drop-in change, with everything else staying the same as for the 10mm.

Wasn't a want thing. More a need thing. Got the gun, needed ammo. No 10 ammo or brass available at the time. Now that the hording craze has slacked off I have been only shooting 10 in it. And yes, I do plan on getting a 40 barrel for it.

I have been practicing with my favorite handgun - Glock 22 for about 16 years. Beside its 100% reliability (so far) I am not concerned of the 40 S&W cartridge power. Penetration of any of those 180 gr FMJ bullets is tremendous while its recoil is very manageable. I am convinced any of these bullets would penetrate the skull of any bear regardless of its size. Given the choice, in a bear country, I would prefer this gun&cartridge combination over any ultra magnums. A well placed shot is everything.

quote:

Originally posted by HawkCreek:
Here in central WA seeing even a small black bear is rare so I usually carry a Glock 20 though occasionally I'll go back to my 686 for the ability to fire shotshells (for snakes).
I like the 10mm because it's a bit more powerful than the .357 in all but the biggest revolvers and a substantial increase in capacity.

My .454 makes me comfortable even when saber tooth wooly mammoths are circling my camp at night. It's certainly not something I can shoot as fast as the Glock but with practice I can get two shots off pretty quickly (any more than two and I have to readjust my grip, even the FA 83 grip rolls in my hand). The trick is practice but it's not a fun (or inexpensive) round to practice with.

ETA: My favorite carry system for an outdoor gun has become my HPG Kit Bag. I wasn't sure I'd like it at first but it keeps my sidearm easily accessible yet completely hidden from the elements.

I hope this works as I don't think I have ever posted on here before.

I cast and load for five 10mms and ninteen 357s, in no case have I ever beat the 357 with the 10mm
when using the 187gr cast fngc in the 357.

With a six inch barreled GP100 357 you will have no problem getting 1500fps, with the g20 10mm and a
6.6'' barrel 1400 is pushing it with a 183gr cast or jacketed.

This Buffalo Bore 180gr cast load is a factory load that is close to my load.
https://www.buffalobore.com/in...product_detail&p=100

Take note of the BB data with different barrels, even in the shorter barrels the 357 wins, don't get me
wrong I like the 10mm but it is not more powerful than the 357 with the best loads in both.

One other reason I like my wheel guns is that I like not having to chase down my brass.

Living, working and playing outside Yellowstone I've carried single actions on 45 copy and up. Now I want lighter. Tried the g lock, couldn't warn up to the grip angle after shooting 1911s for forty years. The 10mm is OK but I also don't have a five gallon bucket full of brass. So I tried a Springfield xd compact 45. Becoming my favorite with a 250 lfn at a thousand. Can't shoot a Smith and Wesson as it beats the bone at the base of my thumb and one round will hurt like hell. The XD is a good tool, I havn't had to buy a barrel to be able to shoot lead, stock spring is perfect. I did add TFO sights which are wonderful even in the day. Very good in dark timber when you wake one up.

And for Mr. Shoemaker, the 30/06 with a 220nosler put a very snotty black bear on the ground last year. And I didn't wish for anything bigger. It was my model 70 featherweight that my dad bought when I was born. It has been a good friend.

Not all glocks work 100%, I have six of them now, sold a g23 because it jammed too much.

One of my g20's have had three jams in one ten
round magazine with factory ammo.

I trust my revolvers more.

That is a pretty high pressure .357 load

quote:

Originally posted by happie2shoot:

quote:

Originally posted by HawkCreek:
Here in central WA seeing even a small black bear is rare so I usually carry a Glock 20 though occasionally I'll go back to my 686 for the ability to fire shotshells (for snakes).
I like the 10mm because it's a bit more powerful than the .357 in all but the biggest revolvers and a substantial increase in capacity.

My .454 makes me comfortable even when saber tooth wooly mammoths are circling my camp at night. It's certainly not something I can shoot as fast as the Glock but with practice I can get two shots off pretty quickly (any more than two and I have to readjust my grip, even the FA 83 grip rolls in my hand). The trick is practice but it's not a fun (or inexpensive) round to practice with.

ETA: My favorite carry system for an outdoor gun has become my HPG Kit Bag. I wasn't sure I'd like it at first but it keeps my sidearm easily accessible yet completely hidden from the elements.

I hope this works as I don't think I have ever posted on here before.

I cast and load for five 10mms and ninteen 357s, in no case have I ever beat the 357 with the 10mm
when using the 187gr cast fngc in the 357.

With a six inch barreled GP100 357 you will have no problem getting 1500fps, with the g20 10mm and a
6.6'' barrel 1400 is pushing it with a 183gr cast or jacketed.

This Buffalo Bore 180gr cast load is a factory load that is close to my load.
https://www.buffalobore.com/in...product_detail&p=100

Take note of the BB data with different barrels, even in the shorter barrels the 357 wins, don't get me
wrong I like the 10mm but it is not more powerful than the 357 with the best loads in both.

Happie
I didn't know the .357 could handle loads that hot. That is even hotter than the "Encore/Freedom Arms/Blackhawks ONLY" loads in my manuals (and some of those are with 14" barrel velocities).

When I said it was "a bit more powerful" I meant the emphasis on the "bit". In my manuals it's got just a touch higher velocity with a fatter usually slightly heavier bullet (but again nothing approaches the load you mention).

180 at 1350 and 200 at 1300 out of 4.3" in my Glock 20 around 725 Ft/lbs. 220 hardcast sounds like a winner too

Ten round mags are a known problem. Sounds like there is something else going on as Glocks are one of the most reliable weapons ever. In training and competitive shooting I have seen many self induced malfunctions. Happens with Glocks a lot due to the lightweight frames. A problem you WON'T have with a revolver

quote:

Originally posted by happie2shoot:
Not all glocks work 100%, I have six of them now, sold a g23 because it jammed too much.

One of my g20's have had three jams in one ten
round magazine with factory ammo.

I trust my revolvers more.

Never owned a Glock till I bought a Glock 20 in 10 MM. Quite a bit more controllable than my S&W model 29 I have owned for 35 years.

I have not carried the S&W since buying the Glock worked up some 220 Gr Cast loads that shoot great and are accurate and reliable. I like the idea
of a 220 gr bullet and 14 of its friends!

Never a failure to feed or function with my Springfield Pro. Shooting bonded 235g Golden Sabre HPs at 25 yards all are in one ragged hole.

It's what I feel comfortable carrying and shooting if need be.

When it first arrived.

quote:

Never owned a Glock till I bought a Glock 20 in 10 MM. Quite a bit more controllable than my S&W model 29 I have owned for 35 years.

Yea that's because the 10mm has a bit less vel than the 44. Less velocity with the same weight bullet means less recoil. Load your 44 to 10mm levels and it well be more controllable also.