They could have offered more money for someone to leave!!


Don't airlines have anyone who can actually THINK??

A few weeks ago I posted an article about an old man who refused to pay $12 for a blanket he required on the flight.

They had to divert the plane because he created a fuss.

Imagine, trying to save $12, by diverting the flight to another airport??

When they tell you to get off the plane, they mean get of the fricken plane NOW.

Snowflakes just don't get it.

quote:

Originally posted by Opus1:
When they tell you to get off the plane, they mean get of the fricken plane NOW.

Snowflakes just don't get it.

Oh I get it.

The airline screws up, and instead of them paying for it, they make a criminal of a passenger??

With Saeed on this one. Poor performance.

Check this out..This guy will end up owning United Airlines...


http://www.foxnews.com/travel/...erbooked-flight.html

Here is what I can't believe: United made an announcement that FOUR of their employees had to get to Louisville so they could fly the next day.

United needs to change their policy and avoid putting their employees on the last flight of the day, especially when it is overbooked.

I seriously don't understand why United didn't keep upping the ante until they got someone to volunteer. At some price point, someone will volunteer.

Back when I was traveling a lot. I always bought tickets on a flight that I knew was oversold every Friday. I was able get so many free tickets (that's when they actually gave tickets and not vouchers that expire). I took lots of free trips and never had to touch my miles for a domestic trip. I still always ask if volunteers are need, a voucher is better then nothing.

As bad as United problems were, the big issue is the behavior of the police. What right does the police have to lay a hand on this guy? He was doing nothing but peacefully sitting in his seat. What law was the law enforcement enforsing? United airline law?

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana1:
As bad as United problems were, the big issue is the behavior of the police. What right does the police have to lay a hand on this guy? He was doing nothing but peacefully sitting in his seat. What law was the law enforcement endorsing? United airline law?

Failure to obey a lawful order of a flight crew. Violation of Federal law.

quote:

Originally posted by Wesheltonj:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana1:
As bad as United problems were, the big issue is the behavior of the police. What right does the police have to lay a hand on this guy? He was doing nothing but peacefully sitting in his seat. What law was the law enforcement endorsing? United airline law?

Failure to obey a lawful order of a flight crew. Violation of Federal law.

Maybe....No safety issues. This "order" was a result of the fact that UA would loose $$ if the crew did not arrive. Not sure if it is a valid legal order. I am sure lawyers are all over this.

Two points:

1) You can be denied boarding if the flight is overbooked. They screwed up and let all of the passengers board, denying no one. Why....:

2) The flight wasn't overbooked. That's an excuse. It was fully booked which is why they let all of their ticketed customers board, AFTER which they realized they needed 4 of their own employees to deadhead in order to avoid a 4 hour drive. All their mistake. If they'd denied boarding the passenger wouldn't have a leg to stand on, figuratively speaking.

Poor planning on their part. All involved should be fired for being terminally stupid as to the big picture and costing UA millions in bad PR, when they easily could have just upped the offer progressively until they had 4 volunteers. Out of 70 passengers I'm sure it wouldn't have taken more than a few $k x 4 and avoided all of this. For all they knew the man didn't speak English, was deaf, mentally handicapped or impaired, etc.

Even if, and it is a big if, UA succeeds in a law suit against the 69yr old you know lawyers are right now burning up their phones checking if any of the other passengers might have been traumatized by being forced to witness this assault, now have ptsd, a fear of flying, require lifetime counselling, etc. An enterprising lawyer could even argue the passengers were being forcibly detained/threatened when the manager boarded and told them the plane was going no where until four people "volunteered." Not right, but very reasonably foreseeable in this day and age.

Again, stupid should be a firing offense.

quote:

Originally posted by Wesheltonj:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana1:
As bad as United problems were, the big issue is the behavior of the police. What right does the police have to lay a hand on this guy? He was doing nothing but peacefully sitting in his seat. What law was the law enforcement endorsing? United airline law?

Failure to obey a lawful order of a flight crew. Violation of Federal law.

Well, I didn't see the pilot in any of the videos here. He is ultimately responsible and he (or she) totally blew it.

Terrible behavior.

Simply keep offering free tickets - at 2k they would have had a line of people wanting to get off the plane.

Mike

Maybe that's one of the reasons United remains at the bottom of the customer satisfaction list just published.

As the NBC news reported they can throw you off the plane if they wish even tho you payed for the seat. I think it sucks but they make the rules and this poor fellow paid the price. I will try not to use them in the future.

If you order a television, pay for it, and put it in your car at the big box store after picking it up, can a store clerk come out to your car and demand you give it back because they accidentally sold too many and your TV needs to go to someone else? Can he take it by force? Can he drag you out of your car to get it back?

I think there is more to this story than the short clip shows. I can understand the doctor being upset. However, I would never let it get to the point where I was being physically dragged off the plane.

Just copied the following:

Anyways, sum up this discussion. Often it is so hard to tell the difference between right and left wingers b/c human beings always allow their emotions to be manipulated by the media.

1) This incident is a lot longer than the 30 sec clip. The man in the video was the 3rd passenger asked to leave. When he refused, the police were called in. The police asked him nicely to leave and tried to reason with him. He refused to cooperate. A 3rd police was then called in and they forcibly removed him. The amount of force they used is the only thing debatable in this incident - whether it was excessive or reasonable.

2) When you purchase a plane ticket, READ THE FINE PRINTS. Overbooking is a common practice, this thing happens all the time. In most cases, people jump at the opportunity to get the compensations. Legally by contract, airlines are only obligated to refund your ticket. If they are offering you cash and hotel stay, that is out of their good will. This flight was offered $800 + hotel expenses for a $300 flight! I would take that in a heartbeat.

3) When no volunteers are available, the an algorithm will select candidates based on ticket price and time of purchase. So no, his race has nothing to do with it, you can check the race of the other 3 passengers if you like. These people are "forced" volunteers, they still get the compensation. However, by their contract in purchasing the ticket, they have to leave. If you do not like this policy, then don't buy the ticket. Unfortunately, ALL airlines have the same policy.

4) By not complying with contractual obligation to leave the plane, this man is now a criminal. He is both trespassing on United property and also delaying the flight, which violates the FAA regulation and can face up to a year in jail. The employees called the police, just like any other business would when you have someone on your property that won't leave. At this point, United is no longer involved in the situation.

5) Now you can argue whether the police used reasonable force or excessive force, that is the only thing questionable in this incident. However, it doesn't clear the man of his crime. He still violated FAA regulation by delaying the flight and he still trespass on United property because his ticket was no longer valid. Will he sue United or the FAA? He might, but probably not b/c he probably want to stay out of the radar since he isn't being prosecuted for his crimes. If he sues, United is legally right, but they may shell out settlement for PR. If he sues the FAA for excessive force, most likely a judge would clear the cops.

This is really not any different than a drunken passenger becoming unruly and needed to be forcibly removed. The fact is if this man really is a doctor, he should act more civilized and just obey the rules. If he has a grievance, file it with the company, with BBB, or with a lawsuit. Acting like an overgrown child and making the cops pull you off your seat? He should be embarrassed.

The above very well might be relaying facts but the one item ignored was perception. This incident will cost UA as the perception the public gets from this incident is completely negative. It will cost UA considerable dollars to try and correct the negative PR from this incident. It was a foolish and poorly thought out decision to bring in the police. This incident will undoubtedly be used by many airlines in future managerial training and very well might force policy changes.

quote:

Originally posted by Icafrica:
The above very well might be relaying facts but the one item ignored was perception. This incident will cost UA as the perception the public gets from this incident is completely negative. It will cost UA considerable dollars to try and correct the negative PR from this incident. It was a foolish and poorly thought out decision to bring in the police. This incident will undoubtedly be used by many airlines in future managerial training and very well might force policy changes.

Doubtful, there are only so many airline seats and when you need one you will purchase one. If I never flew all the airlines that have pissed me off, I would be walking or driving everywhere.

This was a sold out flight, not an over sold flight. Difference. The only reason why passesngers were kicked off was to make room for United employees.

#NewUnitedAirlinesMottos

"Not enough seating, prepare for a beating"

quote:

Originally posted by Wesheltonj:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana1:
As bad as United problems were, the big issue is the behavior of the police. What right does the police have to lay a hand on this guy? He was doing nothing but peacefully sitting in his seat. What law was the law enforcement endorsing? United airline law?

Failure to obey a lawful order of a flight crew. Violation of Federal law.

Laws matter and this snowflake does not have much of a criminal case however, he can wage a PR smear campaign and make a few bucks in order to fix his broken nose. Unfortunately, there is no cure for his entitlement/snowflake affliction.


Resistance is futile and will result in a proper assbeating.

Not that I have time to view it but I would like to see a video of the 5-10 minutes before the confrontation. I suspect the good doc isn't without fault in this matter.

I fly so much that nothing surprises me anymore.


Shame that flight attendants don't carry Tasers and use them often. The traveling public has de-evolved.


My last trip from JNB back to ATL was delayed by 45 minutes while we had to head back to the gate to offload a passenger that refused to sit in the middle seat and threw a fit. Time before that a passenger lost his shit during the middle of the flight because the poor peasant next to him apparently hadn't showered in months. It is getting to the point that a disturbance free flight is a rarity. With 550 people on board, seems one or two will cause problems.

Have any of you flied United Airlines?

If you have not, I congratulate you. If you have, I offer you my condolences!

I fly from Salt Lake to Midland Texas often. When I did not know any better, I would have my Secretary book me the "cheapest" flight. As you could probably guess, it usually ended up
being a United flight.

Constantly issues with them. The last straw was when they delayed my flight to Denver, then the flight to Texas was cancelled. Missed my meeting, finally made it to Texas a day later. On the return flight, my flight from Denver to Salt Lake was cancelled. Finally, was able to get a stand by flight. There were always issues with them! I would never fly United.

OK, rant is over.......

We flew United First class from Guatemala city to Houston a month and a half ago and it was THE WORST. It was an older plane and the food was terrible. They didn't even serve dessert because the Stewardess said it was unpresentable!!! I sent United customer service an email when I returned home and they said they would try to have better food?

May United will open a new class of service:

quote:

Originally posted by Wesheltonj:

quote:

Originally posted by Icafrica:
The above very well might be relaying facts but the one item ignored was perception. This incident will cost UA as the perception the public gets from this incident is completely negative. It will cost UA considerable dollars to try and correct the negative PR from this incident. It was a foolish and poorly thought out decision to bring in the police. This incident will undoubtedly be used by many airlines in future managerial training and very well might force policy changes.

Doubtful, there are only so many airline seats and when you need one you will purchase one. If I never flew all the airlines that have pissed me off, I would be walking or driving everywhere.

It will cost them something; fares are now roughly equal, and with so many American/United non stop overlaps, some people will choose American simply because of this.

For the life of me, I don't understand why they don't just keep upping the ante. Over 15 years ago I was on a flight where they offered $1000.

Mr. Shores.

I am surprised at the number of frequent travelers that do not know that information. But then again now days most people have an aversion to rules and obedience if it is applied to them.

More background on our little snowflake. Certainly past performance does not automatically necessitate an assbeating, but it certainly sheds a little light on his wiring.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new...-secret-gay-sex.html


I like his Psychiatrist's analysis - he is lacking 'the foundation to navigate difficult situations'. Seems he has more than a few "issues"...


Maybe not a PR disaster after all.

Actually in the case of involuntary denied boarding the airlines are required to provide compensation in the form of cash or a check (not vouchers). The amount depends on the delay. If the airline gets you to your destination within an hour of your originally schedule time no compensation is due. 1 to 2 hours later they have to pay you 2 x the one way ticket price up to a maximum of $675. More than 2 hours later they have to pay you 4 x the one way ticket price up to a maximum of $1,350. These amounts are set by the DOT so an airline policy can not supercede the policy. In the event that you decide to take an airlines offer of travel vouchers rather than cash you have now changed your status from involuntary denied boarding to voluntary denied boarding. You do not have to accept vouchers or any other sort of scrip, you can insist on a check. These rules apply to domestic travel, international travel the wait times are doubled.

I would like to see a video of the minutes leading up to this incident.

I fly a lot, a hell of a lot actually. I am closing in on 4 million miles with Delta. Some years ago, I was taken off a plane . Not the same circumstances but wrongly taken off the plane. This was before electronic tickets. They had dropped my ticket. I was madder than hell. I was absolutely wronged. Having said that, I did not conduct myself in such a way that they had to call any form of security. That type if behavior is wrong.

I suspect the good doctor has serious issues.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Not that I have time to view it but I would like to see a video of the 5-10 minutes before the confrontation. I suspect the good doc isn't without fault in this matter.

The good Dr. is a convicted felon with previous anger issues. The police report says he took a swing at one of the cops right before the SJW video begins. The truth will come out eventually. In the meantime the damage is done.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new...-secret-gay-sex.html

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:


Well, I didn't see the pilot in any of the videos here. He is ultimately responsible and he (or she) totally blew it.

Not true. The CSR owns the airplane until the cabin door is closed. Once LE is called it's their baby. In this case it's highly likely that the pilot wasn't even aware there was a problem until after things ramped up.

The PIC can have a PAX removed but they don't physically do it themselves. A CSR does it and if they can't handle it LE is called. But on the ground with the cabin door open a CSR does not need the PICs permission to remove a PAX.

I'll just tell you this, there are a lot of layers of bad that have to happen before LE is called on board.

On behalf of all medical doctors and especially all Vietnamese medical doctors I have known and worked with,
whom I have found to be highly intelligent, hard working, and honorable,
I wish to apologize for the behavior of the fruitcake that got slapped and dragged off that airplane,
screaming and babbling afterward like a psychotic.
He may well be psychotic, or a conman and a sociopath, just to be redundant for emphasis.
There is a normal distribution of highest to lowest quality in the character of members of all professions.

But what are the odds of both MD and Vietnamese? Apparently it happens.

This fruitcake cooled his heels by playing semi-professional poker, quite profitably,
while waiting to get a limited-practice medical licence back,
after serving his 5 years of probation for felony convictions.
He said it was a point of honor to get the medical license back.
Honor!

United may have earned their bad luck in that encounter.
The conman-sociopath earned whatever he got too.
He has a new game of poker now.
"Deal the next hand!"
So screams the conman-sociopath with fat lip.
He's surely thinking his bloody lip will improve his poker face.


There is more than one way to skin a wildcat.
Riflecrank Incurable Permanente

His behavior is one issue..but the bigger issue to me, is the idea that an airline choses to kick off paying customers to transport their employees around. What they have the legal right to do and what is good business is a whole different deal. If it's common practice then it's clear airlines have no idea how to treat the people that pay their salaries.

'Well Mr. Munoz, according to TripAdvisor, the world's largest travel site, not only are we a real airline…we are the best airline,' the commercial reads

Apparently, Mr. Munoz made the above statement a few years back about Emirates. Etihad and Qatar airlines.

And he seems to be putting his foot in his mouth right now too.



They promised regulators that ALL ticketed passengers will get seats??!!

Less than three years before a passenger was forcibly removed from one of its aircrafts, United Airlines assured federal regulators that all ticketed passengers are guaranteed seats on flights. The promise was delivered in federal filings reviewed by International Business Times.

In September 2014 comments to federal officials, the Chicago-based airline outlined its opposition to proposed rules that sought more disclosure of the fees airlines charge to customers. One of the rules at issue was designed to compel airlines to more explicitly disclose fees charged for reserving specific seats.

“Including advance-seat-assignment charges among the ‘basic ancillary service’ fees that must be disclosed as part of initial fare displays makes no sense,” the airline wrote to the Department of Transportation. “Every ticket, of course, guarantees a passenger a seat on the plane, with no additional mandatory seat-assignment charges."

Later in the filing, United Airlines expanded on its promise to regulators that it guarantees every ticketed passenger a seat.

“Importantly, every passenger who buys a ticket on a United flight or a flight on any of United’s partners or competitors in the United States will be assigned a seat at no additional charge (though in some cases this will still happen at the gate),” the airline wrote. “Therefore, the rule does not need to prescribe how carriers must disclose charges concerning advance seat assignments because passengers need not purchase this service to receive a seat assignment.”

United has faced withering criticism—and calls for a congressional investigation—after video surfaced of a passenger being forcibly removed from a flight from Chicago to Louisville, Kentucky. United issued a statement saying its flight was “overbooked” and asserting that “after our team looked for volunteers, one customer refused to leave the aircraft voluntarily and law enforcement was asked to come to the gate.”

The company’s CEO, Oscar Munoz, later apologized for having to "re-accommodate these customers.”

Federal rules do not prohibit airlines from overbooking flights. Despite United's assurance to federal regulators in 2014 that it guarantees seats for all ticketed passengers, the fine print of the airline’s “contract of carriage” agreement on its tickets says the company retains a right to bump passengers off flights for myriad reasons.

On Tuesday, senior Republicans and Democrats on the Senate Transportation Committee demanded answers from United Airlines CEO and the Chicago Department of Aviation about the removal of the passenger in the video.

"We recognize the importance of having passengers comply with the lawful instructions of airline crews and law enforcement, but it is hard to believe that some combination of better planning, training, communication, or additional incentives would not have mitigated this particular incident or avoided it altogether," wrote senators John Thune (R-SD), Bill Nelson (D-Fla.), Roy Blunt (R-Mo.) and Maria Cantwell (D-Wash.) in a letter that included a list of questions about the incident.

I heard it reported on the news that the flight was delayed by over 2 hours due to this guy. If I were a passenger on the flight and he delayed me that long by being a jackass, I don't think his problem would have been with United. I'd have had a cadre of fellow passengers help me remove the jackass.

Why did this idiot think it was OK for him to cause a ruckus for 2 hours, to the consternation of the other 99 passengers on board? Why didn't the other passengers get involved? What about them? They were screwed over in multiple ways, by this asshole and also the airline for not dealing with it in an efficient manner.

Well, my understanding is the flight was delayed "by this guy" for two hours b/c they had to repair the arm rest they broke with his face and clean the blood off of the seat. I don't think that's his fault.

Let's see how UA screwed up:

-CEO now says flight wasn't "overbooked." Earlier statements were CYA spin, ie, a lie.
-CEO says even though flight wasn't overbooked, they followed their overbooking procedures even though they weren't applicable.
-UA keeps referring to their CoC for "denied boarding" but the plane was already completely boarded according to....them.
-UA has backed off their assertion that the deboarded passenger were chosen "by computer" or "at random." Now they say it was EITHER by computer OR by a person or a combination. Sounds like more spin.
-Chicago PD has retracted story that the passenger "fell", causing his injuries. Another lie?
-UA said they had "no choice" b/c they HAD to get the flight crew aboard. It was only a 4 hour drive, so this again rings hollow (another lie) as the plane ended up taking over 3.5 hours to get there. The flight the deadheding members needed to met was supposedly 20 hours later.
-from UA's original story, it was a gate agent/manager who boarded the flight and directed the individuals to exit. Disobeying flight crew is a felony. Gate Agents? Meh. They need to release more info on this.
-CEO doubled down saying he backed the employees who now appear to NOT have followed their own procedures and apparently violated United's own CoC and possibly some CFRs.
-Video has gotten over 270 MILLION views in China, UA's biggest emerging market where people are known to be a bit touchy about perceived western arrogance and racism and other airlines are eagerly waiting to take up any slack UA's miscues afford them.
-The utterly tone deaf response really makes one wonder if they have the capacity to handle a real crisis such as a crash at the board room level. No way I'd touch their stock until they render a few scandal free year or change management.
-Their ham-handed response triggered calls for possible congressional hearings. Nothing says enchancing-shareholder-value like watching your CEO be perp walked into the Capitol and grilled on tv by grandstanding politicos. The is NO possible positive outcome.

And lastly...this was a crisis ALL of their own making! You cannot make this stuff up.

I predict a quick, large, and confidential settlement.