I have 16 synthetic stocked rifles in P-64s, Brno ZGs and 21/22 actions, FNs and even a sts Classic for leaving in vehicles, tents, etc. for extended periods. I also have my Dakota 76 customized by Ralf Martini and it has both a lovely wooden stock and a Micky. I hunted with it in northern BC and the wood stock worked fine, but, a synthetic is definitely superior in such circumstances.

I ALWAYS have good, adjustable irons on my hunting rifles and won't do without them, but, I spent most of my working life in the BC and Alberta wilderness, usually working alone and I do not use the same type of gear that one sees the "dudes" from foreign countries with, as their guides lead them to their "trophies".

The most experienced BC guide and former outfitter I know who is still living, was born and raised in the Stone's Sheep country of northern BC and he has shot 50 Grizzlies himself and a whack of other game. He is a bushman who is the finest tracker I have ever seen, a wizard with horses and has spent his entire 50+ years in the remote northern BC bush.

He has had quite a few rifles and his choice for a working gun to protect his "dudes" from Grizzly attacks, etc., is a wooden stocked Mauser in .35WhelenAI and, it has a Q-rib with irons, which he prefers.

I still enjopy using my Mannlicher-Schoenauer carbine, my Oberndorf Type B and several other wood stocked hunting rifles here in BC and always will. I prefer "point" checkering to "fleur-de-lis", but, then, I have seen some FDL patterns that I liked very much.

I am glad that I live in BC as I do not have to fly and be guided to be a "hunter" of big game.

FMC,

that's the bed liner. The body and bed are steel!

I admire your taste is cars, love to have an AM someday.

Not to be cross, but a Ferrari or Aston Martin is all about style first and performance second. A properly optioned Shelby Mustang GT500KR can be a 1+G cornerer and slide past 200mph. Like good walnut though, your cars have, ummmmmm, Panache!

all in good fun...

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by FMC:
JDS. Dude I got the $ I just spend it on function not form. Saving $- I just don't believe in nigged out BS- quarter ribs,iron sights, integral nonsense, faggoty fleur de lis and ribbons- pure useless crap.

Again, I'm a hunter not a poser....registered in '04, 458 posts......I spend more time hunting than bullshitting....errrr typing.

When I spend $5-10K on a rifle you bet the bitch'll shoot. I just don't care what it looks like.

And you don't want to get me started on the ACGG. They make purty rifles, but I'll take an Echols, Holehan, Miller, Sisk over one any day. function over form. Look at their prices, they ain't cheap I know I got 2 Holehens coming.

Like I said, I pity you. For several reasons, actually.

You any kin to Boss Hoss? You two sound a lot alike.
Regards, Joe

quote:

How sad. I don't see why you guys don't use Savage 110s or AK-47s, they're LOTS cheaper and then with the money you saved you could afford a bunch of extra hunts!

How sad. No aesthetic sense whatever, it appears. I pity you, you're missing SO MUCH!

But, different strokes....
Regards, Joe

I use the GMA actions but besides the point I love woodstocked guns adore them but field them no like ive stated im very ocd when it comes to scratches dings and dents so I hunt with syn stocked guns same set up as the walnut stocked guns quarter rib etc except the 416 which is fluted

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:

quote:

Originally posted by FMC:
JDS. Dude I got the $ I just spend it on function not form. Saving $- I just don't believe in nigged out BS- quarter ribs,iron sights, integral nonsense, faggoty fleur de lis and ribbons- pure useless crap.

Again, I'm a hunter not a poser....registered in '04, 458 posts......I spend more time hunting than bullshitting....errrr typing.

When I spend $5-10K on a rifle you bet the bitch'll shoot. I just don't care what it looks like.

And you don't want to get me started on the ACGG. They make purty rifles, but I'll take an Echols, Holehan, Miller, Sisk over one any day. function over form. Look at their prices, they ain't cheap I know I got 2 Holehens coming.

Like I said, I pity you. For several reasons, actually.

You any kin to Boss Hoss? You two sound a lot alike.
Regards, Joe

Joe,

Not to be rude but please kiss my ass not on the right side and not on the left side but Right in the Middle!

Have A Nice Day!

Oh forget the KMA Comment because I do not even want you thinking about my rear end !!!

Here is a pic -- no finish yet but blank was turned yesterday for my SS Number 1 in 375 H&H note the very small burls that will light up when finish is applied.

Nice wood, BH!

Guess I must have touched a nerve....
Regards, Joe

Always in fun!!!

"Nice wood, BH!"

I hear that lot LOL!!!!!

i might get labeled a heretic, and while some wood is very nice, to me, a custom gun is about function and metal ... the stock is a handle ... i like em all .. even stainless.. bbq paint is cheap to make it a proper color

OK I just can't resist being a wiseass...

Been to BC, adequate to average trophies not as nice as our rockies, or as beautiful as New Zealand but prostitution is legal and the US $ goes a long way, eh. I guess you wouldn't know that though. You should get out more and broaden your horizons......

I don't understand your point though, of course anyone who guides for dangerous game has iron sights not a scope, after all he is there to shoot a dangerous animal at close range as a last resort. Common sense dictates that telescopic sights would be dangerous in that instance, I guess the ol fart forgot to tell you that. Hell even I knew that, my .416 and .375 have em. Type less, hunt more.

(Sorry couldn't help that.....just jerkin your chain I don't really care- life's too short to get in a lather- actually my most memorable hunt was a 2 week horseback hunt in the Kootenays)

But in all seriousness, like Allen Day, I ain't drinkin the [I]artisan[/] Cool Aid........done with that BS

That is why I mentioned the gunbuilders earlier, they ensure a rifle functions flawlessly first and care less of the embellishments. I know it'll feed, eject and shoot. Which I can't say for some of my other projects.

I don't want to embarass anyone who is well known here, but it is one thing to make a rifle pretty, but the basic function of a bolt action rifle is to reliably feed, eject and of course shoot (hopefully accurately). The ACGG projects I had commissioned, while beautifully built, functionally are (were) an embarrassment to the industry as a whole. Inexcusible mistakes. All I can say is at least any POS you can buy at WalMart will actually chamber a round, which is more than I can say of the "coveted" ACGG masterpieces. 2 different smiths, in all 3 ACGG members. That is all I will say.

Again, wood, synthetic I don't care as long as they shoot.

Frankly I wish one of you posers put your $ where your mouth is and take my G33/40 LW .270 action and blank off my hands...pics are someplace here. Bad taste in my mouth on that one.

PS For everyone's sake don't try to goat me, all it'll do is make me laugh & put a smile on my face and I'll wind up typin some wiseass quips....

quote:

Frankly I wish one of you posers put your $ where your mouth is and take my G33/40 LW .270 action and blank off my hands...pics are someplace here. Bad taste in my mouth on that one.

My guess is you don't make your living as a salesman

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
i might get labeled a heretic, and while some wood is very nice, to me, a custom gun is about function and metal ... the stock is a handle ... i like em all .. even stainless.. bbq paint is cheap to make it a proper color

Ok--now you are on the hook LOL! Define please--function and metal. I agree with your thought process I think.

IMO:

Anyone who would spend money on appearance INSTEAD of function is a fool.

Once flawless function is assured, anyone who would NOT spend money on appearance is either broke or spiritually & aesthetically null & void.

All big-game rifles need iron sights and many guides' rifles need scopes that can be instantly mounted for the case of a wounded & fleeing animal, ESPECIALLY a dangerous animal.

All braggarts are punks and lots are really trolls.
Regards, Joe

quote:

Not to be cross, but a Ferrari or Aston Martin is all about style first and performance second.

Rich, how would you explain this Ferrari then?




F430 Scuderia 16M in matte black. No Leather seats (or any leather for that matter), no carpeted floor, no shiny paint, not even a radio. Everything is stripped down bare bones in the name of performance.

Even Ferrari makes a synthetic version.

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:
IMO:

Anyone who would spend money on appearance INSTEAD of function is a fool.

Once flawless function is assured, anyone who would NOT spend money on appearance is either broke or spiritually & aesthetically null & void.

All big-game rifles need iron sights and many guides' rifles need scopes that can be instantly mounted for the case of a wounded & fleeing animal, ESPECIALLY a dangerous animal.

All braggarts are punks and lots are really trolls.
Regards, Joe

Joe---got to give you credit. Could not have said it better if I typed the words myself. Beauty is nothing without function and ACCURACY is included within the definition.

If you are buying a rifle as a tool a smart shooter will get the best one for the job. If you are buying one to show off -- get whatever turns you on.

heya phil, im gonna go on record and state that your signature is the best one in this whole nasty bowl of AR soup!
and damn if it is not spot on in just about every squable herein, like this one!
lol

at the end of the day this whole thread is fu@%in useless. it all comes down to taste.

hey...heres another thread....Blondes vs Brunettes.

Sevens,

that is marketed as a stripped-down, competition version of the road going car. For a considerable markup! Looks the same on the outside. Funny, though, just for racing homologation; but they destroyed a few crash/safety testing them and then certified them emissions legal so they could sell them to people who would occasionally drive them on the streets. I do believe they have air conditioning though!

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Boss Hoss:


Here is a pic -- no finish yet but blank was turned yesterday for my SS Number 1 in 375 H&H note the very small burls that will light up when finish is applied.

I thought this one was going on your 375?

quote:

Originally posted by Boss Hoss:
This is going on a SS Ruger #1 in 375 H&H


Just got the pic----will have SS hardware as well and a English deep subtle red pad.

Are you building 2?

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:
IMO:

Anyone who would spend money on appearance INSTEAD of function is a fool.

Once flawless function is assured, anyone who would NOT spend money on appearance is either broke or spiritually & aesthetically null & void.

All big-game rifles need iron sights and many guides' rifles need scopes that can be instantly mounted for the case of a wounded & fleeing animal, ESPECIALLY a dangerous animal.

All braggarts are punks and lots are really trolls.
Regards, Joe

That about nails it, as Allen Day, whom I greatly respected and liked very much, used to say!

Well put, Joe, ya ornery character!

quote:

Originally posted by CAS II:

quote:

Originally posted by Boss Hoss:


Here is a pic -- no finish yet but blank was turned yesterday for my SS Number 1 in 375 H&H note the very small burls that will light up when finish is applied.

I thought this one was going on your 375?

quote:

Originally posted by Boss Hoss:
This is going on a SS Ruger #1 in 375 H&H


Just got the pic----will have SS hardware as well and a English deep subtle red pad.

Are you building 2?

Long story but we switched. The other one is for sale now--has the red pad on it call Luxus if you want it.

I own 21 long guns 16 of which are synthetic stocked big game rifles. The metal is either stainless or weather proofed chrome moly. I fully admit that a wood stocked rifle with a satin metal finsh is a thing of beauty and I do appreciate that but as a hunting tool particularly in adverse weather they just do not hold up in comparison to a Tupperware rifle. Beside the fact that swollen stocks and rust can ruin your shooting and the function of a wood/blued rifle I just don't want to spend a piece of every evening in camp cleaning a rifle.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:
IMO:

Anyone who would spend money on appearance INSTEAD of function is a poser.

Um, ain't I been sayin that all along?

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
I own 21 long guns 16 of which are synthetic stocked big game rifles. The metal is either stainless or weather proofed chrome moly. I fully admit that a wood stocked rifle with a satin metal finsh is a thing of beauty and I do appreciate that but as a hunting tool particularly in adverse weather they just do not hold up in comparison to a Tupperware rifle. Beside the fact that swollen stocks and rust can ruin your shooting and the function of a wood/blued rifle I just don't want to spend a piece of every evening in camp cleaning a rifle.

Mark

Well said, this sums up the entire situation very nicely. In Sept-Oct. here, it can be quite warm and dry and gets to about 10*F at night; I often have and do use my nice old classic wood stocked rifles then and really like doing so.

Now, it is raining and windy and the best deer hunting is just starting as Elk and Moose seasons wind down. I am restricted as to my hunting this year due to my wife's health issues and will only hunt Vancouver Is. Blacktails; I will use my Mannlicher as I love it and have never hunted with it and also my Dakota in it's new Micky and a P-64-1946 with an Edge stock and sts. Classic bbl. if it pours as it often does.

Why not use and enjoy a variety of rifles, once you have your basic battery of about 4 big game rifles built to withstand everything? It's all about FUN, to me and I like to pack an old Type B 9.3x62 and enjoy it's superb accuracy and fine functioning in it's 73 yr. old wooden handle.

One of my minor personal pet peeves as a guide are folks who spend time babying their rifles. Are you reading Lon ? haha
Although we have raised synthetic stocks up on some pedestle, wood stocked rifles are tough. Heck, boat paddles, snowshoes and ax handles are made of wood. If you have a nice wood stocked rifle you like to use then don't be afraid to use it. A few extra scratches and dents just add to it's character. Just look at some of the 03 Spfld sporters Michael Petrov has in his collection. Many were used by Alaskan guides and all were well used. most probably more than the average synthetic sporter of today. And they are still gems.

esthetics VS functionality. Is it only in rifles, or do you apply the same standards in other facets of your life?

Function, does that mean you wouldn't buy a DR because they aren't stainless and synthetic?

Rich

quote:

Even Ferrari makes a synthetic version.

That Syn. Ferrari gives me a woody!...

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
esthetics VS functionality. Is it only in rifles, or do you apply the same standards in other facets of your life?

Function, does that mean you wouldn't buy a DR because they aren't stainless and synthetic?

Rich

Rich, Where does aesthetics fit in when your life - or outcome of an expensive hunt - is on the line ? Functionality means choosing the best tool for the job . If you are a serious rifle user and a double rifle, Echol's legend, Barrett, M-4 or SAW, is absolutely the best tool for the job then you would be foolish for choosing otherwise no matter how pretty you think it is.
Pure functionality has a beauty all it's own.
And I certainly apply that in other aspects of my life as well.
I am not opposed to aesthetics - so long as it in no way compromises function.

And of course here come the ritualistic pats on the back "jolly good show, old man.......harrumph....bully bully"

IIRC, Allen Day got fed up and left this sight because he caught a lot of flack for not cow-towing to the ACGG crowd and caught quite a pile of shit for his Echols- utalitarian overpriced rifles...."bully bully....harrumph..." And of course he didn't build a shrine to the mauser 98, and preferred the Mod 70..........but now he was "well respected"...by the same guys whom he felt were not worthy enough for him to share his expertise and experiences.................

Funny also, the biggest poser I ever met was at a camp in ol Mexico 5 or so years back, came from Alaska or sumpin up north. Bragged about his Biesen, Otmar and ? custom rifles (don't remember), and was hunting with his fancy ass custom Dakota .270 Wby, looked down his nose as I only had a measely synthetic ("travel rifle") .270 Win......he asked me "what am I looking for," I didn't know how to answer ? I'll never forget this, he said; "No, I mean you looking for a 30in deer? What?" I said "I dunno, a nice deer."

Well of course he looked the part, had those skinny grandma Swaro binocs, etc. Well when he came back to camp that evening there was a commotion his guide was talkin to the others. The outfitter asked him why he didn't shoot a deer, guy said "I didn't come here to shoot a whitetail." Outfitter said "you fool that was a record Coues deer......" I just looked and winked at the outfitter. Next day he comes back and talks about the running shot he put on a mule deer, then blamed the guide as he had shot a young 3 x 4 mulie.....Fn poser.

Dewey are those the "dudes" to whom you are referring? I guess he shoulda been happy to live in and stayed in Alaska and not made an ass outta himself.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
One of my minor personal pet peeves as a guide are folks who spend time babying their rifles.

I agree completely. I build some fairly fancy rifles for myself and I hunt with all of them regardless of the weather. Now, we don't get as much rain as the Pacific NW but we get more rain down here than in any OTHER part of the US and the humidity swings between 30-40% (early PM on dry days) to 99-100% (rain, fog, mist, etc and most summer nights). Everything down here either bites, stings or itches and that includes the vegatation, it's pretty thick in spots. My rifles have scratches, just like my brand-new F250 4x4 had scratches on the second day I drove it off the lot. So what? Both are still excellent tools and items of pride for me, regardless of scratches. IMO most folks who are worrying about scratches are really worrying about something else.....
Regards, Joe

FNC, I have no idea as I have never been to Mexico, although one of my best friends and hunting partners works there in the mining industry quite often. I also have never hunted in places where many people own or use Biesen or Ottmar rifles; I did buy a Biesen in 1968 and soon sold it while a former hunting partner of mine had a really lovely Ottmar.

I drooled over an Ottmar at Martini's and was just talking to Ralf an hour ago, about the synthetic stocked Brno ZG-47 and Classic sts. Mod. 70 he is finishing for me. I would love to own that Ottmar, which I think was bought by a member here, the same gentleman who sold me the synthetic stock for my Dakota, installed by Ralf to make a fine rifle even more useful for BC and what we do here.

The term "dude" is what guided "hunters" from other countries, usually the USA, are called here in BC. A few of these guys earn the respect of the various working professional bush people here, but, from my experiences with them over some 46+ years, most of them are loudmouths who have urban professions, have never spent any time alone in real wilderness and would piss their panties if left alone in the Kootenay mountains, up the Musqwa or maybe up the Chuckachida.

We get doctors, lawyers, dentists, real estate floggers and various other well-off "hunters" here and they are so often offensive assholes. Such dudes from suburban backgrounds who pay others to find their "trophies" make we make our living in the BC-Alberta-"Territories" wilderness, as I did for many years, just laugh at them.....I am sure you "get it".

Joe, again. well said and, as usual, Phil posts sound common sense based on mucho experience.

Back in 1967, I bought the first Mannlicher-Schoenauer I ever owned, age 21 and spent most of my first BCFS firelookout's summer savings on it. I had spent ninety days alone on top of a Kootenay mountain and felt I "deserved" another nice rifle.

I hunted that wooden stocked rifle hard all that long season, into December, as we could then and kept it waxed with "Kiwi Neutral" shoepolish. The West Kootenays, where I am from is VERY wet and snowfalls are huge, yet, while I backpacked that rifle for miles and in pouring rain and blinding snow, it never rusted and the stock never warped.

I am retired now, but, still am offered jobs in wilderness work, especially where one must be alone for extended periods and, if I were to go back, I would probably just use my 73 yr. old Oberndorf Type B-9.3x62 with 286 NPs, wooden stock with it's "war wounds" and all.....why not, it works.

Well then guys we have a commonality, albeit I am a wiseass (walking away from a plane crash gives one a joie de vivre and playful cynicysm).

I can think of 3 instances where I barely had time to get a rest on a boulder, tree branch etc that had I been worried about my wood/rifle the shot would be lost.

I'd like to hear from the guides-> though I know they couldn't care less as long as 1. the hunter and 2. the rifle can shoot.

The poser (doctor lawyer, banker etc) shows up with a pristine virginal rifle, and talks about his rifle, the wood came from the south side of a remote mountain in the himalayas, in an uber magnum caliber blah blah blah.....SOB cackles like a blue hair hen. Never shuts up during the hunt.

The whole time the guide is shittin in his boots because he knows that if this douchebag manages to hit an animal on his fourth shot they'll be trailin all night for the wounded animal.

The hunter shows up at camp and is asked about his caliber: "it's a .270 or .300 Win" Some beat up old POS synthetic (or wooden - sounds like yours), etc.....but again, the bitch will shoot.

He sits quietley with his guide <- who is the one to initiate the conversation, etc etc etc oh and he's the one who bags the game


Been there done that....ain't my first rodeo

Frankly the most satisfying part of any hunt is when you say your farewells and your guide gives you a heartfelt warm handshake, looks you in the eye and says "I enjoyed that, I'd like to hunt with you again...."

PS I got you by 10 years, my Mod 70 is from 1927

Part of the decoration of a rifle are the scars it accumulates in honest service. Every scratch, every ding should bring back a memory. Worn checkering and bluing tell of days in the field and adventures to be recalled. Hanger queens may stay pristine but they just don't have the soul of a real veteran. I love good wood and blued steel and take care of my firearms but I do not begrudge them their honorable scars.

Jerry Liles

quote:

Originally posted by FMC:
PS I got you by 10 years, my Mod 70 is from 1927

Pretty good trick......NOT! Thanks for showing us just WHO the poser/troll REALLY is!
Regards, Joe

quote:

Originally posted by FMC:
..I don't want to embarass anyone who is well known here, but it is one thing to make a rifle pretty, but the basic function of a bolt action rifle is to reliably feed, eject and of course shoot (hopefully accurately). The ACGG projects I had commissioned, while beautifully built, functionally are (were) an embarrassment to the industry as a whole. Inexcusible mistakes. All I can say is at least any POS you can buy at WalMart will actually chamber a round, which is more than I can say of the "coveted" ACGG masterpieces. 2 different smiths, in all 3 ACGG members. That is all I will say.

Im interested to know what particular actions & chambering combinations you had done by those ACGG smiths, that dissapointed you.
Ive never had a basic unmodified factory m70,Mannlicher,rem700,Brno,Krico,Ruger,Sako,Weatherby or mauser that would not function.

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:

quote:

Originally posted by FMC:
PS I got you by 10 years, my Mod 70 is from 1927

Pretty good trick......NOT! Thanks for showing us just WHO the poser/troll REALLY is!
Regards, Joe

He he he......got me! I wish someone woulda taken the bait on the prostitution quip- I had a couple-three good one liners

Trax. The aforementioned Pre War Mod 70 did not feed from the left rail. I bought it a .270 win on GunsAmerica for peanuts (I assume it was inexpensive as it didn't feed) and used it as a donor action. I did not cycle the original action (I know irrelevent but I want to be thorough).

It was sent to ______________ who barreled & chambered the action to .270 Win. I don't recall throat length, but IIRC was a little long but cartridges do fit into the magazine well. I did not ask for a special throat, though my builder knew I reloaded. Again, I did not ask for anything special, however; one would think that the "craftsmen" would have had some sort of discussion and/or ask me. But I will take the responsibility for that. I don't remember how it shot at first.

I sent it to Kevin Weaver with another action to clone it albeit in synthetic and asked him to play with it. He fixed it and nonchalantly said the rail needed to be ? ground, dunno but it sounded like an easy & common fix. He also recrowned the barrel.

Second rifle I had posted on another thread, another Pre War, with a LW barrel. Sent to the same guy ______________. This was an '06- opened bolt face opened up to 7mm Rem. Freebore would even make Roy shudder (why I mentioned the ? throat earlier). Even using long bullets the case mouth barely engages the bullet shank. Kept the original standard box (which may be the SOP on a 7mm Rem, but certainly not with that freebore) so it is an inaccurate single shot. Also would not feed reliably from either rail. Kevin was back to the rescue, and made it feed. I did not ask him to accurize it.

This rifle will not shoot (hence my rant against LW barrels) no matter what. You name the bullet weight, type, manufacturer, powder, I tried it. No rhyme or reason- horizontal strings, vertical ones, spirals. A real fckn piece of shit.

Again, both chamberings done by the same guy, with same trends- longish throats, did not check to see if the cartridges fed. To some that may seem trivial, but to others......I'm sure that there are logical explanations and proper directions of blame, but regardless when one uses a standard of excellence to market oneself the consumer expects that the basic buiilding blocks of that field of expertise not be the ones that need to be worried about.

I know there are some standout ACGG members here, who have helped me get my crap back from Bill Soverns, (part three of the equation) but frankly when you send an item to an alleged "craftsman" one expects the work to be reflective of that, rather than that of a "worker" and hope it wasn't worked on a friday or monday. And I'm not talking about the fancy ass
acoutrements, just what happens when you cycle the bolt.

PS I do like a nice rifle and have no aversion against a nice piece of wood. But they're just rifles, objects, tools. Some people build them to be looked at, I don't. Some people think life is too short to hunt with an ugly rifle, I just prefer one that is accurate......or at least works..

quote:

Originally posted by FMC:

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:
IMO:

Anyone who would spend money on appearance INSTEAD of function is a poser.

Um, ain't I been sayin that all along?

What's wrong with spending a little more & having both?

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
esthetics VS functionality. Is it only in rifles, or do you apply the same standards in other facets of your life?

Function, does that mean you wouldn't buy a DR because they aren't stainless and synthetic?

Rich

I wonder how many would apply those standards to their women.........

quote:

Originally posted by Oddbod:

I wonder how many would apply those standards to their women.........

I started to go there but restrained myself. I realize that I am a lucky man who has a wife who is both.

quote:

Originally posted by FMC:
IIRC, Allen Day got fed up and left this sight because he caught a lot of flack for not cow-towing to the ACGG crowd and caught quite a pile of shit for his Echols- utalitarian overpriced rifles...."bully bully....harrumph..." And of course he didn't build a shrine to the mauser 98, and preferred the Mod 70..........but now he was "well respected"...by the same guys whom he felt were not worthy enough for him to share his expertise and experiences.................

I will take exception to that comment. Allen Day always came across as disparaging of any who didn't agree with his choices not the other way around. In fact he gave a lot of flack to anyone who didn't kow-tow to his shrine of a worked over M-70 in a synthetic stock as the only go to hunting rifle. A simple search of the forums will find many posts by Allen and him denigrating other actions etc. The "shit" he caught had nothing to do with his Echol's Legend and everything to do with his, anything less is not good enough attitude.

Also for the record he packed his tent and left in some silly protest of some "pagan" winter solstice holiday instead of "Merry Christmas" at the top of the AR pages. Not because of any "shit" he caught. Allen was more then capable of holding his own.

Posted by 458Win:
Rich, Where does aesthetics fit in when your life - or outcome of an expensive hunt - is on the line ? Functionality means choosing the best tool for the job . If you are a serious rifle user and a double rifle, Echol's legend, Barrett, M-4 or SAW, is absolutely the best tool for the job then you would be foolish for choosing otherwise no matter how pretty you think it is.
Pure functionality has a beauty all it's own.
And I certainly apply that in other aspects of my life as well.
I am not opposed to aesthetics - so long as it in no way compromises function.[/QUOTE]

That's about as well put as it get's!
I have a friend with a few extremely expensive, nicely figured wooden stocked rifles. But when it comes to using them in the wet rain forests, they get left in the safe. Sure wouldn't want to put an unsightly scratch in that $2,000 chunk of fine walnut; but sure is pretty to look at behind a sheet of glass.
I have both and am about to head out to hunt one with fine walnut; but then again there is no rain today. If it was I would grab the plastic stocked .375.