Gents:
An email prompts this more detailed post. Of the hundreds and hundreds of entries I skimmed over returned work was for refinish (stock and barrel), strip cleaning, and a few miscellaneous items such as length of pull, a shotgun with rifle barrels added, etc.,
Not ONE entry for "Rifle returned for…" (take your pick)--broken main springs, broken strikers, off face, sights broken or fell off, ribs separated, muzzle wedge loose, ejectors or extractors not functioning as they should, re regulation, poor accuracy, bulged barrels or chambers, and I can't think of anything else.
Damn, the old rifles are nice!
Cal

So now I'm confused!! Does Shootaway have the best double in the world or not?

That depends on the volume of lithium in his system at the time!

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Very good post Mike. Butch certainly does build nice rifles and on these field grades, he did exactly what many of us advocated Sabatti SHOULD have done, that is to build a properly functioning and well regulated rifle, leaving all the pretty window dressing off in order to hit the entry level price point.

In sixty words Todd summed up the proper way to build a double rifle to meet a price point that is low enough so more folks can get an opportunity to own a working double rifle! Rather than put a lot of lipstick on a pig that is lucky to put both barrel’s shots in the same county! No matter the low end or the top end with Searcy you get a rifle that is regulated properly.
.......................................................................

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
both are good representatives of todays modern trash doubles

FOAD you piece of shit.
Cal
PS: Excuse me friends and viewers. I try my best to be polite and non judgmental but I could not control myself on this one. I beg forgiveness from all of you. CP

Cal just put him on ignore.

Cal,

Having read Shootaways comments over the past few months I feel its safe to say that he calls his aunt and uncle.... mom and dad...

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Very good post Mike. Butch certainly does build nice rifles and on these field grades, he did exactly what many of us advocated Sabatti SHOULD have done, that is to build a properly functioning and well regulated rifle, leaving all the pretty window dressing off in order to hit the entry level price point.

In sixty words Todd summed up the proper way to build a double rifle to meet a price point that is low enough so more folks can get an opportunity to own a working double rifle! Rather than put a lot of lipstick on a pig that is lucky to put both barrel’s shots in the same county! No matter the low end or the top end with Searcy you get a rifle that is regulated properly.
.......................................................................

But you spend 2-3X the price, and get a gun that looks like dog shit, has terrible fit and finish, and shoots no better than my Sabatti.

So I have a gun that looks better, shoots better, and cost significantly less.

I'm sure Butch can build a good gun, but he certainly didn't when he put together the one we all see spammed over AR.

Hopefully you won't miss when you get a shot at that one.

Still waiting for a front sight!

I appreciate the fact you placed your rifle on a woodpile. I am sure you and your dad had many good times there in your youth!

Matt

Come on guys. I got one of the Searcy Field Grades when Butch offered them, and while it definitely is not a high end Westley Richards, or H & H, I got exactly what I paid for. My wood is not as tight as the H & H but I didn't pay the H & H price either. The regulation is as good or better than expected. 2 shots less than 1/2" apart and level at his regulation distance. It fits me perfectly and functions exactly as it is supposed to. He is building me one of the higher end doubles in .470 and I'll be willing to bet there are no fleas on it when it gets done. For the money, it's one hell of a practical double made to be used.

I am convinced my Searcy Field grade is capable of less than an inch at 50 yards. Weak link being me, the shooter. It looks good, metal finish is excellent and it fits likes a glove.
Remember, Shootaways rifle is a special model made for a lesser price (about $2k less) so there has to be compromises made somewhere.

To even try to compare a bottom end 45-70 or 9,3x74r to an accurate well regulated 500 NE is pointless.

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
I am convinced my Searcy Field grade is capable of less than an inch at 50 yards. Weak link being me, the shooter. It looks good, metal finish is excellent and it fits likes a glove.
Remember, Shootaways rifle is a special model made for a lesser price (about $2k less) so there has to be compromises made somewhere.

To even try to compare a bottom end 45-70 or 9,3x74r to an accurate well regulated 500 NE is pointless.

2K less than what? I bought a field grade and paid for it what everyone else did.If you think yours is better in any way why dont you post some pictures of it and show us? Where in the world did you here that I paid 2K less for mine?
Did you pay 2K less for yours? Your are just jealous because mine is nicer

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Gents:
An email prompts this more detailed post. Of the hundreds and hundreds of entries I skimmed over returned work was for refinish (stock and barrel), strip cleaning, and a few miscellaneous items such as length of pull, a shotgun with rifle barrels added, etc.,
Not ONE entry for "Rifle returned for…" (take your pick)--broken main springs, broken strikers, off face, sights broken or fell off, ribs separated, muzzle wedge loose, ejectors or extractors not functioning as they should, re regulation, poor accuracy, bulged barrels or chambers, and I can't think of anything else.
Damn, the old rifles are nice!
Cal

Someone had an old vintage double at a hoot and shoot and wanted me to try it.One of the triggers was so stiff that made the rifle almost useless for hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
2K less than what? I bought a field grade and paid for it what everyone else did.If you think yours is better in any way why dont you post some pictures of it and show us? Where in the world did you here that I paid 2K less for mine?
Did you pay 2K less for yours? Your are just jealous because mine is nicer

You bought one of the special runs made by Butch for $8,750. Not the same rifle he used to sell for about $10,500 which used to be the base price of his PH model. The $1,750 difference in all in the final finishing.

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
2K less than what? I bought a field grade and paid for it what everyone else did.If you think yours is better in any way why dont you post some pictures of it and show us? Where in the world did you here that I paid 2K less for mine?
Did you pay 2K less for yours? Your are just jealous because mine is nicer

You bought one of the special runs made by Butch for $8,750. Not the same rifle he used to sell for about $10,500 which used to be the base price of his PH model. The $1,750 difference in all in the final finishing.

Did you pay 10,500 for your field grade?

Snowwolfe,
I knew when I bought it that it was supposed to be a working rifle, not a showpiece. You're right. I'm still happy with it. The action and pieces, parts and barrels are the same quality as in the finest double he makes, just not as much time put into aesthetics. Fit and finish. And when he marketed them, I knew after talking to Butch what I was buying.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
2K less than what? I bought a field grade and paid for it what everyone else did.If you think yours is better in any way why dont you post some pictures of it and show us? Where in the world did you here that I paid 2K less for mine?
Did you pay 2K less for yours? Your are just jealous because mine is nicer

You bought one of the special runs made by Butch for $8,750. Not the same rifle he used to sell for about $10,500 which used to be the base price of his PH model. The $1,750 difference in all in the final finishing.

Did you pay 10,500 for your field grade?

George, you purchased a "Field Grade" rifle from Butch. A special run. You paid about $2K less than the previous bottom level Searcy which was the "PH Grade" Snowwolfe is referring to. Understand?

Again, IMO, this was the proper way to go with a basic entry level rifle. Instead of the laser cut engraving of the Sabatti in an attempt to dress it up, Butch focused on making a very reliable, properly regulated double rifle, built with his normal quality, but just leaving off all of the "dressings". I like a pretty rifle. But I'll not sacrifice looks for function. And in the event one of these rifles develops an issue, I'm 100% confident Butch will correct it in the proper manner, unlike Sabatti did with the dremel. I'll also bet that as time goes on, and hundreds of rounds are shot from these Field Grade Searcys, the quality of workmanship will become evident. We are already hearing of barrels separating on the Sabattis after a few hundred rounds of use ... and that from one of the "good ones"!

From what I understood from his post he describes his field great as being perfect and then says that mine is crap because it costs 2K less than his.I understand that the PH costs more but mine is not a PH it is field grade.
If he does not mean this then fine however his way of saying things causes me confusion.

quote:

Originally posted by pagosawingnut:
Snowwolfe,
I knew when I bought it that it was supposed to be a working rifle, not a showpiece. You're right. I'm still happy with it. The action and pieces, parts and barrels are the same quality as in the finest double he makes, just not as much time put into aesthetics. Fit and finish. And when he marketed them, I knew after talking to Butch what I was buying.

Pagosawingnut,
Sorry if my intentions were not clear but I was trying to imply the differences to Shootaway.
I agree with you on all counts and if I were ever in the market for a 500 NE one of Butch's $8,750 special would be high on the list.

Shootaway, actually my Searcy PH cost around $11K because I ordered it with the built in scope mount in case I ever wanted to add an optic to it. The only reason I mentioned the differences between the Field Grade and the PH and the $1,750 was to shed some light as to the final finishing differences. My fault as I knew I should of kept my mouth shut in any discussion with you.
Field Grade or PH, it is confusing to mesometimes.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
From what I understood from his post he describes his field great as being perfect and then says that mine is crap because it costs 2K less than his.I understand that the PH costs more but mine is not a PH it is field grade.
If he does not mean this then fine however his way of saying things causes me confusion.

Yea, his original statement was confusing due to his reference to his Field Grade, but he clarified in the second post, referring to the PH.

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:

quote:

Originally posted by pagosawingnut:
Snowwolfe,
I knew when I bought it that it was supposed to be a working rifle, not a showpiece. You're right. I'm still happy with it. The action and pieces, parts and barrels are the same quality as in the finest double he makes, just not as much time put into aesthetics. Fit and finish. And when he marketed them, I knew after talking to Butch what I was buying.

Pagosawingnut,
Sorry if my intentions were not clear but I was trying to imply the differences to Shootaway.
I agree with you on all counts and if I were ever in the market for a 500 NE one of Butch's $8,750 special would be high on the list.

Shootaway, actually my Searcy PH cost around $11K because I ordered it with the built in scope mount in case I ever wanted to add an optic to it.

Do you have the PH model or the Field Grade?
You say here that you have the PH and you list that you have the field grade at the bottom of your posts and above in your first post.

If you have a PH instead of the field grade then just ignore my previous posts.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:

quote:

Originally posted by pagosawingnut:
Snowwolfe,
I knew when I bought it that it was supposed to be a working rifle, not a showpiece. You're right. I'm still happy with it. The action and pieces, parts and barrels are the same quality as in the finest double he makes, just not as much time put into aesthetics. Fit and finish. And when he marketed them, I knew after talking to Butch what I was buying.

Pagosawingnut,
Sorry if my intentions were not clear but I was trying to imply the differences to Shootaway.
I agree with you on all counts and if I were ever in the market for a 500 NE one of Butch's $8,750 special would be high on the list.

Shootaway, actually my Searcy PH cost around $11K because I ordered it with the built in scope mount in case I ever wanted to add an optic to it.

Do you have the PH model or the Field Grade?
You say here that you have the PH and you list that you have the field grade at the bottom of your posts and above in your first post.

That's a good question and it is confusing to be honest. All I know is I paid about 11K for it and then Butch came out with his "special" model for less money and less finishing. The "special" model is what you have. Starting to make sense that maybe Butch made two types of PH models. Perhaps he can clarify.

PH: I just checked my records and my rifle is a Field Grade, paid $9995 plus I think $500 for the built in Talley mount. I apologize for not posting the correct information previously.

Confusing names.

So, what upgrades does yours have Wolfe that the current run of Field Grades does not?

The way I understand it is that the field grade is the only $8750 model.I believe you have the PH model.BTW,I think that if you take cheap close up pictures of any rifle things may appear strange.I cant find anything wrong with my rifle.I have even put it next to the bolt rifle Ralf built for me and all I see different is that one stock has been highly polished and also has nice checkering.The metal work on the Searcy looks perfect.There could be better closed grain wood on Ralfs build but that may be from the sanding-I dont know.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Confusing names.

So, what upgrades does yours have Wolfe that the current run of Field Grades does not?

Maybe intercepting sears? I remember something about these "specials" when they were offered and one of the game breakers for more than one person was the lack of intercepting sears as being a true safety issue.

Does your's have them Snowwolf?

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I think that if you take cheap close up pictures of any rifle things may appear strange.

A picture I just took of some old trash with old iPhone 3GS. Strange?

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I think that if you take cheap close up pictures of any rifle things may appear strange.

A picture I just took of some old trash with old iPhone 3GS. Strange?

Yes it looks as if there is a big edge or a poor metal to wood fit just in front of the factory like checkering.It looks as if someone forgot to blue the metal around the hinge pin.I would never buy that POS.Look how nice mine is pictured below-blows yours away!

Shootacow: I'd take frostbit's any day of the week.

quote:

Originally posted by JDA-CO:
Shootacow: I'd take frostbit's any day of the week.

Your opinion does not count you are just a losing rock thrower.

If you can't tell the difference between a bull or a cow, how can we honestly expect you to have much of an eye for detail?

Stick,

I thought I was hearing 105 mm howitzers going off all night. Now I am convinced it is Shootaway throwing a temper tantrum on the floor in Montreal. He must be tired by now.

Matt

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Moore:

I thought I was hearing 105 mm howitzers going off all night.

Matt

You were!! They were in my back yard I think. Some of the "small arms" fire is so melodic it lulls us to sleep.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I think that if you take cheap close up pictures of any rifle things may appear strange.

A picture I just took of some old trash with old iPhone 3GS. Strange?

Yes it looks as if there is a big edge or a poor metal to wood fit just in front of the factory like checkering.It looks as if someone forgot to blue the metal around the hinge pin.I would never buy that POS.Look how nice mine is pictured below-blows yours away!

I know!! Sucks I had to pay $2,000 more for that POS eh?

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
just ignore my previous posts.

We usually do just that!

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Confusing names.

So, what upgrades does yours have Wolfe that the current run of Field Grades does not?

Todd, Good question. What I remember is this:

Butch used to offer a Field Grade in the $10K range. I bought mine in 2009. At one point you could also order it with ejectors for about another $2K. Mine does not have ejectors and cost $9995 plus the scope mount. He made the Field Grades on and off for another year or two after mine was built then he stopped.
Then awhile back he announced a "new" Field Grade at the lower price of about $8750 or so. He clearly indicated this rifle would not be "finished" as well as the other rifles he built in the $10K range. You can most likely find all this in the archives if you wanted to search for awhile. Or perhaps Butch can chime in and clarify everything.

Mates:
From reading this it looks like I have saved a lot of headaches and arguments by buying only vintage English. They don't break down, only increase in value over time, and the wood to metal fit and finish is perfect.
But, that's just me.
I'm not Shootaway and never have been. (Except a the last AR dinner in Dallas. My name tag read "Shootaway" and I nearly got the shit kicked out me!
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by JDA-CO:
Shootacow: I'd take frostbit's any day of the week.

Your opinion does not count you are just a losing rock thrower.

Now, now Shootacow... Let's not be a grumpy French Canadian...

I just did a search and see that the field grade was available a few years back at a higher price.I understand that you have the field grade model and not the PH model.I remember seeing those pics back then.That said I still find mine more refined especially on stock shape and overall more looking like the classic lines of vintage doubles.I agree with the fellow that just recently sent me a pm in that the Searcy doubles are now more refined than ever.