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I will wager that the combined experience of 465H&H - who has experienced the same fine performance with Woodleigh RN's that I have, but who has more experience - and myself exceeds the combined experience of the four or five you name. But that isn't very material unless each has done the DG shooting and then the bullet digging, etc, to discover and record the performance of the bullet used. Regarding time, I will continue this post later, if I find the time. I need to leave the office to catch an Oriels/Yankees game. But hey, wait a moment, aren't you the one who has written, a couple of time, that modern FN's don't rivet, divot or bend? They do, but pine boards are not enough to cause substantial riveting. And uniform riveting at the nose actually enhances shoulder stabilization, it does not detract from it. The reason that RN's out penetrate FN's in solid media is because there is no shoulder stabilzation in solid media, only aquaeous and gaseous media. TBC JPK  Free 500grains | |||
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peterdk,
What do I make of this? In February this year you posted the following at NitroExpress.com: On the same day I replied with:
Now I am thinking: 1. Why did you not contact Elmarie, myself or Gina? We are not difficult to contact on email. 2. Gina is in the USA so she can state whether she can find any mail from palsn(at)yahoo.com, I have no record of mail from such an address. I have just checked Elmarie's email and it also comes up with "no matches found" for palsn. 3. Given your posts above, if you want to test our FNs in oddly dimensioned bores, surely you do not expect us to guess what those dimensions are? You would have to tell us so that we can produce the correctly dimensioned bullets. 4. Standard price list item orders would be routed through our dealer in Denmark but if custom dimensions are required, we have to run the bullets specially and I would be contacted. So, now I would like you to post on this forum the emails containing your order and anything that you can produce that will give some small credibility to your claim that you have ordered bullets. What did you order and for what caliber? What are the major and minor diameters of your Henry and Lancaster bores? What are the twist rates? Surely, as a gunsmith you would know that I would require that information. Why did you not contact Elmarie when I asked you to do so in February past? You tell me what should I make of your "complaint" for which none of us can find any information? | |||
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The statement is frequently made that many many more DG has been shot with round nosed solids than what has been shot with FN solids. This is true. FN solids have been around a relatively short time, compared to RN solids so this is logical. The statement has also been made that many many more DG has been killed with RN solids than what has been killed with FN solids. This is also true, for the same reason as above. What is not said is that many many more DG is wounded with RN solids than what are wounded with FN solids. Once again, the reason is in the total numbers of DG that has been hunted. However, it is the proportion of shot animals that are wounded, that is the important number and in this matter the FN solid is far superior to the RN solid. Once again I refer to proper FN solids that are the correct length for the twist rate of the rifle and exclude flattened round nosed solids. | |||
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 <yawn> That's it? you turn it into a pop-phsycology insultfest? OKay .. ya'll let me know when johnny decides to play with the adults, ya here? opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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dear gerard let me start with this one dated may 11 2009 from gina, then i can post the rest tommorow from my workshop computer so my credibility can raise a bit  Dear Peter Thank you for your PM to Gerard. He forwarded to me and now I just need some more information from you. Can you confirm that the caliber is a 577 Nitro Express or something else? The time in which we have to get bullets to you is a concern, especially if don't have them in stock and have to manufacture them for you. Air Mail shipping from here to you, will take 3 to 4 weeks by itself. I hope that we will be able to work something out given the time frame and I look forward to hearing from you. Regards, Gina Gina Schultz GS Custom Bullets More Accurate, More Consistent, Most Reliable. 0027 84 300 3006 GS Custom cc i especially like the one, from your scandinavian dealer where he tells me he is a lawyer and the heavens will come down over my head if i try to import direct as it is a very hard process, which if negated i could face jail time and loosing my licenses as well  he is but a law student, and should have studyed a bit more on that tidbit.peter since i have the mails i find it worrying that you cant find it in your computer.... | |||
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gerard try checking your PM's as well.
just so you know, i found your credibility remark utterly offensive, just because you and yours have a F**ked up filing system, dont mean i have. i do hope your quality control is better. looking forward to tommorow peter | |||
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Peter, I am not one bit surprised that you are having "fun" with our local Rasputin. When cornered, he will usually put another spin on things. Blaming you is obviously the first one that comes to hand, and if that does not work, he will throw a dagger at you to incriminate your character - and so as you are saying .... "i found your credibility remark utterly offensive" My experience is that any discource with him is an utter waste of time, and as you can see in his memo, how his paranoia comes through to discuss me and Alf with you, who has nothing to do with you wanting to order bullets from him. He deems it necessary to bring it into your discussion with him to muddy the waters. I can only offer you my deepest sympathy. Warrior | |||
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Peter, Thanks. It is a fun gun to shoot and will go to Africa. The K-Gun is a good solid shooter also. | |||
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This is true but when it comes to doubles rifles, the rifles care what sort of bullets are shot out! This has been a fascinating discussion. I am wondering, does this just apply to elephants? Won't a Woodleigh or some kind of flat nose bullet work equally well on buffalo and lesser game? Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
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Failed FN mono-metal solids.     | |||
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Well they did when I used them and as it happened, I had a Woodleigh Hydro and a Woodleigh SN out of my 465 hit the buff 2 or so inches apart and they both tracked Exactly the same path, the hydro exited, the SN just stayed in under the skin but the skin had stretched tremendously. IMHO, the RN expansion - broad flat frontal area of the expanded bullet - stopped it from exiting. But a very good discussion overall. | |||
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500N: With respect to bison anyway, my experience is exactly the same as yours. Woodleigh softs from my .404 wound up in the hide on the off side and RN Woodleigh solids went straight, clean through. With the .500 Jeffery, on a broadside shot, the Woodleigh softs go clean through as well. I confess to not knowing which is "best" but one thing that does recommend the Woodleigh solids in your double is that, in all probability, that is what your double was regulated with. In doubles, as we know, barrel time is everything. The right velocity and and bullet contour is important. I will probably never have a chance to shoot an elephant but I think Woodleigh bullets are superb for most double rifle applications and I sure wouldn't hesitate to use a Woodleigh soft or solid for any other application. In a bolt rifle, I would not hesitate to shoot a flat nose solid but now that we have the TSX, for animals other than elephant, I am not at all sure that solids are even required anymore. Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
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Dave I am of the view still that if you are on a good thing, stick to it - and as far as I am concerned, I still haven't been convinced to change from using Woodleigh Softs and Steel Jacketed solids.. However, when it comes to bullets, bullets design etc etc - everybody has a different opinion, different likes and dislikes so it's no wonder we get healthy (and some not so healthy) discussions like this one. You are right about bullet contour can be important in regulation of a double. Depends on how finicky the double is / can be. Because not all the bullet bears on the barrel and the steel jacketed solids are a fraction undersize, I like the Woodleigh's. Plus of course they work !!! Now I know the Woodleigh Hydros were designed to work in Double's as it was important. | |||
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Another reading comprehension problem,eh? Try re-reading my post, or reading it slowly, so it sinks in. It points several additional errors you have made and how you have priorities reversed since no one hunts wet paper, and it won't try to kill you. "Always wrong, but never in doubt," your moto, don't forget it. You will never know when I choose to play with adults, until you grow up! JPK AKA Lead Neck, AKA Trouser Neck Free 500grains | |||
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You had enough yet, i agree that somebody's credibility is at stake here, but i feel mine is pretty secure. I suggest that you look at ron vella's post regarding russ gould, there are a lot of sound advice regarding good buisness practise. the best part is dont blame the costumer for your wrong doing. peter | |||
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Peter, I suggest you burry this bad dream - call it a bad dream and convince yourself this is not real as if it never happened. Turn you back and walk off; you convinced every one that can read, save Gerard that will come up with another excuse ... like perhaps the bad weather affecting the electronics of his computer or Telkom's poor service on tele-lines. Ineteresting observation is that he goes on attack as you say ... even if you are a customer. Warrior | |||
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Poor little rich boy. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Hey, DA, another error, or did you quote me and then intentionally edit my quote? "Rich", eh? That is something you cannot know. Making assumptions and leaping to conclusions again, eh? "Often in error, but never in doubt", your moto, don't forget it. BTW, what the hell would be wrong with being "rich?" If I were poor, I would wish I were "rich." If I were "rich", I would wish I were richer. I know imagination and mental flexibility are traits you utterly lack, and thinking out of the box is difficult if not impossible for you, but just try to imagine the rifles a fellow could built, the hunting trips a fellow could take if he were truly "rich." JPK AKA Lead Neck AKA Trouser Neck Free 500grains | |||
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"While Woodleigh solids look the same on the outside (even to the point of the .470 having the weird shape the John Taylor disliked), internally they are very close to the famous Rigby, with a lead core inside a steel cup inside a gilding metal jacket. They have a deep pressed cannelure that allows a vise-like crimp. Altogether, the Woodleigh is a superb solid." Terry Wieland, Dangerous Game Rifles Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
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Dave & 500N, FWIW the North Forks regulated well in my 470 K-Gun. I have not tried any in my Boswell but it is more particular about loads than the K-Gun. | |||
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I ran some interesting test last night with plywood and Hardy Board. Will share the results hopefully tonight if I can put everything together. I was very suprised with the results. A couple of comments on these threads. I know plenty of game has been killed with Woody's. I know North Forks are not perfect. (Although pretty darn close  )I know nothing about GS Custom as I have never even touched one. I know Hornady is really trying to make good bullets and is doing plenty of good for the Big Bore Shooters. I believe my test were conducted properly. I believe for elephant the North Fork bullets have an advantage. I believe properly sized North Forks are easier on a barrel than properly sized Woodleighs. I would (and have) hunt elephant with Woodleighs if North Forks were not available. I would rather hunt elephant with North Forks. I cannot understand how some of these thread have deteriorated into the cesspool they have become. I know at times I have contributed to the above comment. Sure is plenty of I's and thanks for reading. | |||
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Mike, were the North Forks 500 grainers as well? Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
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Yes they are 500 Grains and about .085 longer. | |||
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peterdk, I think this is bogus. None of those e-mails you posted is an order, or even tells what you want, they are just inquiries. Working in the business I can tell you we get 10 inquisitive people just asking questions before someone orders. But you have no order info. No payment arrangement, no shipping info, no size information (you say they are standard, but you did not mention that in your e-mails, how are they supposed to know?), no LOCAL LAW INFORMATION OR PAPERS! So how can you expect GS to ship you bullets? They cannot, legally or morally! When they check they find nothing, just as they did back in 2009 when you played the same game on NitroExpress. This isn't because they have a F'd up system, it's because you didn't order, and your insulting says the same. How come thousands of other customers and orders, even from Denmark, have gone through, without even a hickup, but yours hasn't? How come 1000's GS HV's and FN's have been shot out of doubles without damage, and even increased barrel life, yet you are set on getting a free barrel? Are you just trying to get free bullets? And you certainly know the bullets will not GSR your barrel, as you say, but you will do everything you can to get a free gun, and that makes you a customer NO company would want to deal with. How can you say that and expect anyone here to hold your word credibly? I think you are a snake! Say what you will, we all answer to someone in the end. Warrior, You are just loving this, arn't you? All you have ever wanted to do is bring GS down, and you have done everything you could possibly think of to do so, and you have still failed. For you it's only personal, and you go out of your way to prove it. Do you post on bullet performance? NO, you just keep on trying to make GS suffer for your own personal gain because you work for another company. That's sad. -Extremist "Pain is weakness leaving the body" -Instructor Victory in life is dying for what you were born to do. "I hope you live forever" -300 "Never judge an enemy by his words, he might turn out to be a better shot then a writer" http://www.gscustomusa.com | |||
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456H&H, Thanks for posting those pictues. It just goes to show what I've been saying, "Both the GS Custom and Bridger bullets offered very deep penetration regardless of whether the target was soft tissue or an elephant's head." JPK, See, no failures. Yes, other FN's have failed, and anyone can make any bullet fail if they want to, but the GSC and NF bullets are superior. Have a nice day. -Extremist "Pain is weakness leaving the body" -Instructor Victory in life is dying for what you were born to do. "I hope you live forever" -300 "Never judge an enemy by his words, he might turn out to be a better shot then a writer" http://www.gscustomusa.com | |||
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First off, a review of your previous posts reveals that your previous statements read, paraphrazing, "mosern FN bullets don't rivet, bend or divot." But these photos prove just the opposite. Of the 14 fired bullets depicted, 13 show deformation of one sort or another. I included in this count the last bullet depicted in the bottom photo, which shows very mild riveting, and the fourth from the left, which shows more but minimal riveting, fyi. There were no NF's mentioned in that article, which was written by my friend Dan McCarthy, who was 500Grains here until banned for disagreeing with management. there was also no mention of Bridger bullets in any of your prior posts. I don't see any Bridger bullets in the photo, so let assume that all of the bottom photo's bullets are GSC'c. That sample of five reflects no failures, but 100% deformation, contrary to your earlier, repeated assertions that FN's don't rivet, divot or bend or deform otherwise. The GSC'c rivet and divot too, as shown, and they will bend as well. I certainly agree that NF and GSC make superior FN's, but they are not perfect and the will fail on occasion. JPK Free 500grains | |||
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extremist I think that your next test should be your own head as any penetration through that oak trunk on your neck would be a great sucess. So i will spell it out to you, hopefully you are not as much a dumbass as you sound. and yes it is very clear that you work in the buisness, it actually wouldent surprice me much if you were selling GSC bullets, so are you ? regarding your tirarde i will just wait for gerard to answer, regarding the free gun, i actually make them myself in london so it were clearly a joke, go back and see the smily face. you think im a snake, that is all good and well, now go back and ask what you should post next for your employers, rather a free snake than a cheap whore. are we done with the insults now ?, then let gerard answer for himself. peter | |||
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Yes, modern FN's such as the ones we shoot don't rivet, divot or bend...and that is still true. The NF's and S&H's are hard enough not to deform much if any, but they can still fail in extreme situations, as any bullet can. The GS bullets are designed to swell and expand, and that is just what I described before, but you have forgot this. I even recall asking you what you where refering to about riveting. They do have deformation in the nose, as this is what they are supposed to do, and as you can read from the caption below, they still penetrate straight and deep, through bone and tissue. Precisely my point. The photo's show what the bullets do, they work. No bending, no tumbling, and I do not see where it is written the bullets veered. I just don't see it. And as I said, it's not that any bullet will never fail, just less likely too, but you simply cannot understand that. The other bullets are failures, yes, and some FN's do fail. Just as you with your one bullet and design basis, we have chosen to speak about a select few FN's that have worked better for us then any other bullet. Bridger and NF are the same, really, but if you choose, you can take NF out and replace it with Bridger, but they are no longer made. If people are banned, is is likely because they cannot keep a cool head about themselves. I am victim to this as well, but I try to make it right and don't let it keep on going. I have made my points and I have nothing further to say if you have not gotten any of what I written herein. We do agree on that last line, and I have said it twice before, so nothing more needs to be said. -Extremist "Pain is weakness leaving the body" -Instructor Victory in life is dying for what you were born to do. "I hope you live forever" -300 "Never judge an enemy by his words, he might turn out to be a better shot then a writer" http://www.gscustomusa.com | |||
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Peter, Yes, I have an oak trunk for a head, will not deny it. And unless I shoot Michael's guns, the barrels are too long to test on myself. But see how insulting you are? You call names, insult and degrade, and I simply responded. If you feel bad about what I said, then so be it. I do not recall a smily face, and it is still a bad thing to say. No matter how you slice it peter, it's still derogatory, and regardless if you make the barrels, saying those things are not going to instill credibility. You did start this, and in public, and why? The only reason I can see is to degrade GS. You can argue all you want, you know the better solution would to have been to address it with the company. This thread was started about bullets, and about the 470NE, not about insults and slandering a company. I promote GS, use them, am in the family now, and will work for them in the near future, and have been a fan for 8 years. That still has nothing to do with your false claims, and I have not been nearly as insulting as you. I called you a snake for those reasons above, and if it were not true, you would have nothing to worry about then. If you were joking, then I appologize, but I will continue to think ill of you for what you say. Regardless, you do not have reason for your slander. Yes, let Gerard answer, but I do not believe what you have said. One question, London or Denmark? I do not post for anyone but myself. And as I said, we all answer to our Lord in the end. Gerard actually advised me not too reply, and I likely shouldn't have, but I cannot stand the things you say, and that remains. And I love you too -Extremist "Pain is weakness leaving the body" -Instructor Victory in life is dying for what you were born to do. "I hope you live forever" -300 "Never judge an enemy by his words, he might turn out to be a better shot then a writer" http://www.gscustomusa.com | |||
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You wrote: "Yes, modern FN's such as the ones we shoot don't rivet, divot or bend...and that is still true." How in the world would you describe or explain the defromation exhibited by the GSC's depicted in the bottom photo? THAT IS RIVETING AND DIVOTING! Swelling and expansion ARE riveting. And they do bend too. Bridgers and NF's are not the same, the Bridgers were substantially harder than the NF's, made of an alloy, I think bronze. And none are depicted in the htree photos 465H&H posted. 500Grains was and is a cool hand. But he went too far for management's tastes on the political forum. Too far for mine as well, but unfortunately, the political forum is a forum where it is "advertised" that anything goes, while it was not in his case. GSC's and NF's are superior FN's, and work better for some purposes than Woodleighs or the steel jacketed, RN Hornadays now out of production, but the Woodleighs and Hornadays, and maybe the newer Hornaday steel jacketed flat nose solid, work better than GSC's or NF's for some purposes. Penetratiing heavy bone that is potentiall encountered on elephant brain shots is one example of a purpose best suited to the steel jacketed RN Woodleigh and Hornaday, and maby the flat nose hornaday. Broadside shots on buff, or even elephants, in a herd situation, from a rifle with decent velocity is but another. The FN's, GSC's, NF's or others, are not a panacea. Only experience will teach you that. JPK Free 500grains | |||
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But everything gerard and you just accomplished now is pissing me of to a degree where i have a hard time seeing how i can be fair about your product, gerard has been called out for his blanket statments before here on the double rifle forum, it has not allways faired well to a degree where a lot of double rifle people even distrust NF and all the others, so maybe there is something about this wonder bullet. Or maybe gerard didnt take into account the different rifling types that exsist, and there is an extreme danger that users of GSC bullets will wake up with a bad taste in there mouths and OSR creeping up their barrels. Knowing British double rifles can take a life time and you will still have something to learn, i have not even begun to discripe the different rifling types that exsist and can cause problems, even what looks like conventionel rifling can be a big no-no, but apparently i will have to find some free time to write about this when ever GSC FP are brought up. peter | |||
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Extremeist458 working for GS Custom. Well there goes his objectivity. 465H&H | |||
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Sounds like he married into the family .... yes/no ??? Warrior | |||
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Just reposting the evil comment that gerard had to cut up a bit, to make it fit into his game. so extremist you see the whole quote ? if i have to explain "no seriusly" as well, i will but i dont think i have to.... see reading before commenting can have its upsides too. how long have you been in bed with GSC and promoting their product without telling people here that you had a vested interest in doing so ? peter | |||
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dear extremist i just felt like answering this as my first answer didnt cover many of your misconceptions
i am looking so much forward to seeing gerards answer along with yours tommorow, so untill tommorow, i bid you both good night peter | |||
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465H&H, Besides the fact I have never made one cent from GSC, I have been shooting them and promoting them for 8 years. And I have admitted to being part of the GSC group before, and no one else seems to mind. Now because I am with them you say that takes away from my objectivity? Is everything Macifej says useless and only objective? Or someone selling a rifle, using a rifle or testing bullets? No, it's what they see and believe. Why does this really matter now when it hasn't for 8 years in the past. Peter, Why do you insist on being so rude and insulting to me, even after back off? I did ask, both you and Gerard, and Gina as well, and no one can come up with ONE e-mail that shows an order, order details, payment, address, NECESSARY RIFLING PROFILE INFORMATION (this is by your own word vitally important), or the ever-so-important laws, which you even admit you never asked about. We are not the importers, and we have recieved no information regarding local laws. And if warned by one who does import, the why would we not be cautious? And especially cautions when you, the customer, has so sternly cautioned the details of your rifling profiles. They do listen to the customer, and they do take caution when told to do so, so yes, they would need those exacting details above before proceeding to send you bullets. That is what this discussion has been about from the beginning, not whether I am in the family or working for them, because that is not relivant. You insult, not make valid points and statement, and that pisses me off. I have not ever been paid by GS actually, and that still does not change the fact that you are wrong. I do post for myself, and the simple fact that I was asked not to also shows just that. I have been open about my views from the beginning. Why don't you just try sticking to the point, the supposed order, the facts, the e-mails, and the logic behind your posts. GS is a fully custom shop that has made more cutom configurations then you know. Their standard line is now over 260 bullets, and they do not have a min. order. They do custom bullets all the time, so fitting one to your rifling profile isn't anything new, but it must be specific and details, and those guidelines and importation requirement were not given. Now I cannot possibly understand why any further insulting needs to continue, so let's try and stick with the reason why we are here. Give us a story. -Extremist "Pain is weakness leaving the body" -Instructor Victory in life is dying for what you were born to do. "I hope you live forever" -300 "Never judge an enemy by his words, he might turn out to be a better shot then a writer" http://www.gscustomusa.com | |||
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Extremist ... Personally, I am not concerned about your relationship with GSC. It's a fine product and you are obviously comitted to their/now your cause. Carry on I say. However, please leave me out of your pissing contests (self induced mostly) with the myriad individuals who seem to have difficulties/issues with you/Gerard/GSC. I'm not part of that equation and have no desire to be. Regarding your tenure here there or anywhere, you have 185 posts (most of which are on the current three of four threads) on AR which is probably the reason no one knows who the hell you are. You're doing your business and your associates a disservice by perseverating. Have you considered switching brands of booze ...?? Might make you more insightful if not agreeable ...  | |||
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peterdk, Thank you for the information you gave. Now we have a starting point and some partial explanation for what happened. What follows is lengthy but it is my last word on this subject. If you want a solution to the situation that has developed, say so and I will work with you. If you want to spoil for a fight, go ahead, it will be a one sided affair. ------------------------------------------------------- 1. In my PM reply to you (which you quoted) I asked for good reason: "it is easier and faster if you would drop me an email to gscustom@wol.co.za so that we can reply directly." I do not visit forums frequently and often do not notice the PM icon. Information asked and given on PM does not enter into our email system normally and becomes difficult to find and link to a thread of mail exchanges that may develop. I requested this more than a year ago and since then, circumstances have changed. To contact me directly, use gerard@wol.co.za My reply to you on NE.com included: "It is best not to contact me on PM at forums, I forget to action matters or sometimes don't notice the PM icon." After your PM of yesterday, I have now switched off my PM facility here as it seems that you do not understand that I do not handle business or tech matters on PM. ------------------------------------------------------- 2. I have given you my direct email address twice. You claim to have sent me mail. I have received no mail from you. Your original PM to me went this route: "I have copied and pasted your question in an email to myself" This explains why I do not have your email address on my system and why a search for your address turned up nothing. Apart from the PM, you have not sent me anything. ------------------------------------------------------- 3. http://forums.nitroexpress.com...547&page=2&fpart=all I am confused about your motive for all this. If you are genuinely interested in "testing" GSC FNs and it is clearly apparent that we misunderstood one another or that communication has gone astray, whatever it may be, why did you not contact myself or Elmarie as I politely asked you to do on the 8th of Feb? Instead you raise the same "complaint" here more than a month later. I have asked twice that we do business by email, yet, the only communication I get from you is another PM. ------------------------------------------------------- 4. on 24 October you said on NE.com: "as i told you, i am working on a design for a monometal bullet," http://forums.nitroexpress.com...117&page=2&fpart=all Therefore you have a vested interest in making your design look good, to be the solution, so to speak. It occurs that you choose to start by pronouncing other monos as dangerous, as you have done thus far with Barnes Banded solids and now with GSC. That is why I said that I do not know what to make of your "complaint". It seems to me to be directed towards making trouble, rather than coming to a solution. ------------------------------------------------------- 5. I asked politely for you to contact me or Elmarie and supply linked addresses. For months you do not respond and the first I get from you is the same "complaint" you posted on NE.com. Your first post of 29 April contains: "You had enough yet," You posted my question about why you did not contact myself or Elmarie. I asked you to do so on 8 Feb this year. As "proof" that you have made contact you post a mail from Gina dated four months earlier? I have difficulty accepting that this is the attitude of someone who is interested in resolving a matter. Fighting talk comes to mind. Maybe I am wrong? ------------------------------------------------------- 6. Your last post of 29 April contains some more remarks that go to running down other products, possibly in preparation of producing "The Solution" in your own design? You say: "gerard has been called out for his blanket statments before here on the double rifle forum, it has not allways faired well to a degree where a lot of double rifle people even distrust NF and all the others, so maybe there is something about this wonder bullet." "Or maybe gerard didnt take into account the different rifling types that exsist, and there is an extreme danger that users of GSC bullets will wake up with a bad taste in there mouths and OSR creeping up their barrels." "Knowing British double rifles can take a life time and you will still have something to learn, i have not even begun to discripe the different rifling types that exsist and can cause problems, even what looks like conventionel rifling can be a big no-no," "but apparently i will have to find some free time to write about this when ever GSC FP are brought up." From this I must conclude that you are interested in resolving a problem? If I am wrong in my assuption, I apologise and ask that we step back and find a solution. ------------------------------------------------------- 465H&H, 1. You forgot to caption the pictures you posted. Photo a) A bent mono solid - Cause of bending is tumbling due to insufficient stability factor for the impact velocity. Photo b) A broken mono solid - Cause of breakage is material that is too brittle and a stress riser caused by incorrect cannelure design. Photo c) Bent mono solid - Cause of bending is tumbling due to ogived design and insufficient stability factor. Photo d) GSC FN solids - No tumbling and no breakage, just reliable, deep penetration. Cause of this rock solid reliability? Correct material hardness and a design that accommodates stress and allows the bullet to deform in a manner that enhances penetration qualities, instead of detracting from them by breaking, tumbling and bending. This has been common knowledge for months now. If you paid a bit more attention to the rest of the forum you would have known. Ditto to Warrior (The Ignorant One), and peterdk. Below are links to posts on AR. http://forums.accuratereloadin...921039321#9921039321 http://forums.accuratereloadin...251007421#1251007421 http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/h...44_3086396_101_n.jpg http://forums.accuratereloadin...481035921#3481035921 The attitude and comments raise a question though. Who would you prefer to ask about technical aspects of any product - someone who is involved with the product or someone who has heard some stuff second hand? When you want to know how something works, do you read the instruction manual or do you ask your clueless neighbor? When you need to travel to new destination, do you stop and ask the local village idiot an hour away from destination, or do you follow the guideline given by the GPS? About the "testing" of GSC drive band bullets I repeat posts I made on NE.com: ------------------------------------------------------- "As for your suggestion to use a new H&H double for "testing", here is the answer I gave to the same inane thought that was put up on AR. -------------------- "Been there and done that in 1996. I did not use new doubles though, they were well used but in excellent condition. In the 13 years since then, that we have been supplying drive band bullets to double rifle owners, they have fired many, many times more than 200 shots with them. Old guns, new guns and in calibers ranging from 7mm through to 600NE. Not a single double has been reported to us that has delaminated or suffered OSR. What would 200 rounds through a new double prove? The major concern, as I see it, is damage to old and irreplacable guns and not with new guns. That is why I take issue with the false statements made by 400 Nitro Express." -------------------- This also why I said that I fail to see why these demands for testing are made towards mono manufacturers. I am a gunsmith (retired now) and I have seen my share of delaminated doubles. I have read reports of delamination and OSR and guess what? Guns have been delaminating and suffereing OSR long before monos were in general use. Why are there not the same demands that cup and core bullet manufacturers spend a small fortune buying doubles and testing them? ------------------------------------------------------- I have found the same attitudes here as I have found on AR. I have to state the same facts repeatedly, get the same inane suggestions, see the same "you only want to make money" attitude and the same general lack of attention to detail that will go a long way towards solving a problem. I am here to pass on what I have learned, listen to problems that may exist (not only with GSC product, how else will I know to avoid pitfalls?) and to be of help." ------------------------------------------------------- "I am in this business because I have a passion for shooting, hunting and all types of firearms. I am twice blessed because I can indulge my passion and make a living from it. At GSC quality is absolute. I have been building custom rifles since '79. For the last 17 years since '93, I have lived and breathed striving to solve every problem I could find around bullet design. Why? Because I have seen priceless works of art destroyed in a variety of ways, amongst them badly designed bullets. I have seen animals suffer for days because of bad bullet design and I made a pledge that this will stop." ------------------------------------------------------- "You take the attitude that it is you double owners against us, the manufacturers. You assume my only motive is selling more bullets and making more money. You assume that I crave an endorsement from H&H and want to advertise GSC product. You could not be further from the truth. I am an R&D man and I am on your side, if you will let me be there. My concern is as stated earlier in this thread (#153036 - 06/02/10), did you even read it? I leave the marketing to the bean counters and the admin executives and, you know what? There are none of those in GSC. We are a family business and our entire enterprise consists of 7 people. We could care less about endorsements and adverts. Our first and only concern is product performance - that is why we exist." ------------------------------------------------------- | |||
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Anthony I did'nt consider your last post as backing off, to me it came across as "im sorry i called you a snake, but you are still a liar". an appoligie with a swift kick in the groin afterwards, i rarely react on being called out but you and gerard did push the right buttons. Now regarding your questions, wouldent it have been prudent to have asked me about them in a mail instead of ignoring me as a costumer, a quick fuck off we dont want to do buisness with you could have been sufficient as well. I do agree that we dont need to continue to insult eachother, and your latest post is in very good form, so lets keep it at that just next time try not calling people a lair untill you have the facts, or admit you dont have the facts and dont care anyway, you seem like a nice enough fellow, and i think that you and gina should have a great chance to make it big in the states. Just remember, if you need or want information ASK for it, i am sure it will be given ASAP. peter P.S please post the link to GSC in your profile, so people know where you come from. | |||
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