Peter,
I started here on my own, test on my own, hunt on my own, and continue to do so. I have been this way since day one, regarless of whether I only have time for 185 posts, and they are limited to the few threads I visit, because I only have so much time to spare. And I still have not worked for GS one day, nor made one penny from them. Now if you had read my posts you would see how much I talk about other bullets, ask questions and make recomendation. I don't go screaming about GS being the best, but I do believe they are amunst the very best bullets ever made, and so why not talk about them? I started with you because of the slander against GS, so that has it's point. I did ask for the evidence, and I am a defensive man when it comes to wrongfull accusations such as "GS is scared..." and "F'd up filing system" and the likes, but still no evidence. If the snake comment really bothered you, and I did recend, then you may feel free to count how many times you have taken a stab at me, insulted me, and then expect me not to be so defensive. Yes, upset is what I was. I will keep the peace from now on.

Macifej,
It is a fine product, and I have been a fan now for as long as I have been shooting them. Regarding bringing your name here, I ment no harm. It's not anything you did, and why shouldn't someone talk about their own product. EdHuble has his 12GFH thread with all his work, Jeff with his AR series, Michael with his MDM and B&M, you with yours and me with mine. It's what we all do to try and show everyone what we see, our perspective on those products, and that's fine. So you need not comment. Pissing contest this isn't, you know this, and it was not self induced. You bring up your points because you are objective with your own reasoning. There are not a myriad of individuals who have issue with GS, rather just one. Oh, we have been questioned, and point/counter point has ensued, but issues are rare indeed. Even Warrior is all speculation and pushes engineering questions, where by his own words the only bullets of GS he has shot were good and worked great! Naysayers have there reasons, and that is ok, but please don't fuel the fire and join in unless you really want to be part of this. A simple "leave me out" would be fine, as I ment nothing by it, but you just had to put in so much more. Yes, I have't posted much because it takes up entirely too much time, but I found these few threads to be worth some of it. But to say I am doing a disservice is not right. You are not fond of me, and I know why. I have questioned you, called out points and we are compitition, but I have been nice about it...you don't like to be. You are upset because I have made solid points that you could not dispute, pointed out certain issues...but then let things be. You do make a damn fine bullet, and we all know that, but we have different approaches to bullet design and it's normal to discuss such. I have been nice, so can you also?

Extremist,

You are so full of crap. You act holier than though after saying things on the board you would never say in person.

You have earned a place on my very short ignore list.

quote:

Originally posted by Extremist458:
465H&H,
Besides the fact I have never made one cent from GSC, I have been shooting them and promoting them for 8 years. And I have admitted to being part of the GSC group before, and no one else seems to mind. Now because I am with them you say that takes away from my objectivity? Is everything Macifej says useless and only objective? Or someone selling a rifle, using a rifle or testing bullets? No, it's what they see and believe. Why does this really matter now when it hasn't for 8 years in the past.

Peter,
Why do you insist on being so rude and insulting to me, even after back off? I did ask, both you and Gerard, and Gina as well, and no one can come up with ONE e-mail that shows an order, order details, payment, address, NECESSARY RIFLING PROFILE INFORMATION (this is by your own word vitally important), or the ever-so-important laws, which you even admit you never asked about. We are not the importers, and we have recieved no information regarding local laws. And if warned by one who does import, the why would we not be cautious? And especially cautions when you, the customer, has so sternly cautioned the details of your rifling profiles. They do listen to the customer, and they do take caution when told to do so, so yes, they would need those exacting details above before proceeding to send you bullets. That is what this discussion has been about from the beginning, not whether I am in the family or working for them, because that is not relivant. You insult, not make valid points and statement, and that pisses me off. I have not ever been paid by GS actually, and that still does not change the fact that you are wrong. I do post for myself, and the simple fact that I was asked not to also shows just that. I have been open about my views from the beginning. Why don't you just try sticking to the point, the supposed order, the facts, the e-mails, and the logic behind your posts. GS is a fully custom shop that has made more cutom configurations then you know. Their standard line is now over 260 bullets, and they do not have a min. order. They do custom bullets all the time, so fitting one to your rifling profile isn't anything new, but it must be specific and details, and those guidelines and importation requirement were not given. Now I cannot possibly understand why any further insulting needs to continue, so let's try and stick with the reason why we are here. Give us a story.

I see where Gerard has posted links to other threads here on AR where apparently you made your affiliation/relationship known. I haven't looked at the links but presume they are what Gerard says they are.

That said, I don't have an issue with you putting forth an argument for GSC's, hell, I'm an ardent supporter, when the application is preferred. But I do think you ought to have mentioned it at some early point. No perticipant, or reader, ought to have a duty to research the affiliations of another, the fair duty is to disclose, without being asked (and you did disclose when asked, to your credit.)

Of course, I have issues with youe argument, but that isn't the issue addressed here in this post.

On pissing into the wind, well, others have made the point.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:
Extremist,

You are so full of crap. You act holier than though after saying things on the board you would never say in person.

You have earned a place on my very short ignore list.

No doubt. Maybe Warrior isn't so far off base regarding these goof balls.

Hey Extremist - still waiting on that data from you that I "can't dispute". If you had been paying attention the last few years you'd have figured out that I'm in this business because of GSC's screw-ups. Your customers asked me to make product you apparently weren't capable of producing/delivering. Hopefully you'll get it together stateside so I can go back to workin' the Jack in the Box Drive Thru ... that would be more productive than responding to your inane commentary here.

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:
Extremist,

You are so full of crap. You act holier than though after saying things on the board you would never say in person.

You have earned a place on my very short ignore list.

No doubt. Maybe Warrior isn't so far off base regarding these goof balls.

Hey Extremist - still waiting on that data from you that I "can't dispute". If you had been paying attention the last few years you'd have figured out that I'm in this business because of GSC's screw-ups. Your customers asked me to make product you apparently weren't capable of producing/delivering. Hopefully you'll get it together stateside so I can go back to workin' the Jack in the Box Drive Thru ... that would be more productive than responding to your inane commentary here.

Ex458,Gerard will be paying you to speak highly of his products. He won't pay you to report problems with the bullets that you may see. Ever have a car salesman point out all the problems with his product? If ypu received a picture of a bent and failed NF solid would you post it here? Would you do the same if it was a GS Custom? I think not! Your being payed to actively hawk Gerards product and that defines a loss of objectivety. But don't fret. I am not being critical as we never expect any factory rep to be unbiased.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
JPK,
The .425 and the two 470s loaded with Woodleigh FMJs worked flawlessly with five brain shots and one heart shot.

OzHunter recently returned from a four elephant hunt.

Thought his report on bullet performance would be insightful.

JPK

465H&H,

quote:

Ex458,Gerard will be paying you to speak highly of his products. He won't pay you to report problems with the bullets that you may see.

Wrong on two counts. I am not paying Anthony anything and I would most certainly expect that any problems that crop up with a GSC product be reported pronto. So far we have had none with the FN range and very little with the rest.

quote:

Ever have a car salesman point out all the problems with his product?

No, but how many car salesmen are there who are also involved with the design, testing and manufacture? Your analogy is out of line and if this is the way you think, good luck to you, you are ill informed.

quote:

If ypu received a picture of a bent and failed NF solid would you post it here? Would you do the same if it was a GS Custom? I think not!

You think incorrectly. If it were appropriate to a discussion I would expect both pictures to be posted. Your hypothetical question is exactly that.

quote:

Your being payed to actively hawk Gerards product and that defines a loss of objectivety.

See my first comment.

Jay,
Ditto.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:
465H&H,

quote:

Ex458,Gerard will be paying you to speak highly of his products. He won't pay you to report problems with the bullets that you may see.

Wrong on two counts. I am not paying Anthony anything and I would most certainly expect that any problems that crop up with a GSC product be reported pronto. So far we have had none with the FN range and very little with the rest.

quote:

Ever have a car salesman point out all the problems with his product?

No, but how many car salesmen are there who are also involved with the design, testing and manufacture? Your analogy is out of line and if this is the way you think, good luck to you, you are ill informed.

quote:

If ypu received a picture of a bent and failed NF solid would you post it here? Would you do the same if it was a GS Custom? I think not!

You think incorrectly. If it were appropriate to a discussion I would expect both pictures to be posted. Your hypothetical question is exactly that.

quote:

Your being payed to actively hawk Gerards product and that defines a loss of objectivety.

See my first comment.

Jay,
Ditto.

If that is truly your position then I applaud you. It certainly is way beyond the ordinary.

465H&H

465H&H,
See my previous reply to you on the preceding page. The last section, where I repeat posts I made on NE.com is relevant. You decide whether I am sincere in what I say or not.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:
465H&H,
See my previous reply to you on the preceding page. The last section, where I repeat posts I made on NE.com is relevant. You decide whether I am sincere in what I say or not.

Gerard,

your a hard person to give a compliment to.

465H&H

I am sorry. Ten years of defending a different line of thinking probably takes its toll in more ways than one. Point taken.

Mike70560,
I would have fully expected different from you. I am not holier then though, nor do I even act so. I state my opinion, call it just what it is and dispute, but I do not claim to know everything. I have learned many things, even from you, and I make that public, just like the complaint that started this. If you walk and talk in public, expect to be addressed in public. I would have rather handled this differently, and I even said I was out of line, admittedly thick in the head and a little hot at times. Thing about me is that I would not hesitate one second to say any of this in person, and if you knew me or anything about me, you would agree. You would also know I have plenty of ground to stand on, plenty. You and I have had one issue, and I did my research and found myself to be in error, so how can you say such? Because I defend the honor of those people I come to know and respect? Just like I respect you and Michael, you respect him, he respects you, and so forth, yet you two have not spend nearly as much time together as The Schultz family and I have. I can say without question they are good people and would not fall under the catagory those here have put them in. That is just how I feel, and my opinion of those that attack them is just that, all on me. If the worst I have done here on AR is to call out something I didn't believe, learn from it and rescend, and call someone a snake, and appologize for it, then I'm not so bad, am I? I do stand for what I believe, as all of you here do or you wouldn't be here. What is so wrong with that? If I am wrong, I admit it and stand down, but I will not allow people to come on here and walk all over others, regardless of who they are. I have only claimed to be just like everyone else, no better, and no worse.

Macifej,
Give one reason why you should say this? You only aim to gain from this, and that is it. You, sir, have no reason for any of this. I have been very plesant with you and your snide remarks. You have said many things that did not make sense and when I have questioned them, you got pissed. I stopped because I didn't want to start a pissing match, but you know we could go on. You cannot dispute the engraving forces, the higher wear and tear your bullets put on a barrel vs GS custom bullets, and you are not in business because of GSC's mistakes. The only fault you can find in this company is the lack of time they have to offer to the customers. Yes, they are back-logged a month, constantly taking orders and answering e-mails. If you want to call this a screw-up, then so be it, but wager to think that comment was based off a difference in design ideas. If that is so, it's no screw up, it's only the difference it what you feel is best vs what GS feels is best. GS offers more documentation on the basis of their design then any other company. Gerard has spend countless hours researching materials, design shapes and terminal effects; it is his life and his life's work. Questioning that as a screw up is a mistake. You spend some spare time machining brass bullets, not your every waking moment like Gerard has for the last 17+ years. Spend some time looking around the web page and see why he does what he does, or you can just ask him. Yes, that's a great idea! You should start a thread of bullet design concepts and ask why people have come to where they are, rather then insulting and thowing in snide remarks. GS is capable of producing far more then you ever could, and better, but they choose not to do certain things if they know it will fail. GS has done more custome projectiles then you have dreamed of, but you don't know about them because he doesn't post them here...should he have to? Yes, he is short on spare time, but he does more then you think, so sorry you haven't seen it. GS also serves 18 countries, so he is quite busy, but we are trying to help him with that. Funny thing is, I have actually complimented your bullets, along with North Fork, many times. I've learned a respect for them, and I have seen the positive changes you and North Fork have made. Even point out some of the great features. Never once called your bullets bad, or attempted mockery like you. So because I like to question, yes, I questioned a few things, you blow up? We have even spoke over the phone before and I recall thanking you and complimenting you, not calling you a Jack-in-the-box operation. Inane I am not, but I still do not have the mental capacity to understand where you come from. I guess I am at fault, so carry on.
One thing that has given me my opinion of you is your signature line:
"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest."
It just says something about you. Not bad, because it's true, and in fact I can see why you would post it, but then why do you have the audacity to attack me for defending GS? Only asking you to sit back and look at this from another perspective.

465H&H,
I am not payed by GS or Gerard, nor have I ever been. I also have not ever seen a failed GS custom bullet. I know they exist, and I did see a few that failed from bad metalergy and two cases where the target shooter was using too slow a twist for the SP (target) bullet they were shooting. One design fault that came up durring testing that I learned from greatly, and a case where the guy used the wrong size bullet...but still no failures in the field. Yes, I'm sure it happens, but I have not seen it...so what do you hear me say? I have said it happens, bullets fail, it's just which bullet is less likely to fail. Ask yourself this, have I ever posted one bad picture of NF, S&H or started an attack of a bullet company? No. I posted pictures of failed RN's, as requested, and one pic of a failed FN to discuss design, but I did not attack the manufacturer. I speak of the why's when questioned, that is it. On occation I get defensive, that is my fault, but not GS. NF is a good bullet, and they do have failures, and I have seen them, but I'm not going to post about it unless I have to. Please note I didn't start on NF, in fact, I defended them as well as Mac's bullets and all other top quality FN's. In my persuit of the ultimate hunting bullet, perfection in design, I have asked many questions, and disputed many concepts...that is what we do here. It's the basis for AR, design, dispute, learn and have fun.

Extremeist458,

You stated that you were going to be representing GS Custom. Based on that it is natural to assume you will be paid. As for the rest of your statement, "good attitude", keep it up.

465H&H

quote:

465H&H,
I am not payed by GS or Gerard, nor have I ever been. I also have not ever seen a failed GS custom bullet. I know they exist, and I did see a few that failed from bad metalergy and two cases where the target shooter was using too slow a twist for the SP (target) bullet they were shooting. One design fault that came up durring testing that I learned from greatly, and a case where the guy used the wrong size bullet...but still no failures in the field. Yes, I'm sure it happens, but I have not seen it...so what do you hear me say? I have said it happens, bullets fail, it's just which bullet is less likely to fail. Ask yourself this, have I ever posted one bad picture of NF, S&H or started an attack of a bullet company? No. I posted pictures of failed RN's, as requested, and one pic of a failed FN to discuss design, but I did not attack the manufacturer. I speak of the why's when questioned, that is it. On occation I get defensive, that is my fault, but not GS. NF is a good bullet, and they do have failures, and I have seen them, but I'm not going to post about it unless I have to. Please note I didn't start on NF, in fact, I defended them as well as Mac's bullets and all other top quality FN's. In my persuit of the ultimate hunting bullet, perfection in design, I have asked many questions, and disputed many concepts...that is what we do here. It's the basis for AR, design, dispute, learn and have fun.

quote:

Extremeist458

You have no idea what the hell you're talking about as usual. Hopefully Gerard shipped you some of his meds with the equipment.

Anthony,
Take it whence it comes. The cook is into simple insults today.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:
Anthony,
Take it whence it comes. The cook is into simple insults today.

Indeed! Found another convert/proxy Gerard? You've trained him well - he even writes in the same nonsensical style as you. No worries - I suspect Warrior will be along shortly to offer you both an "adjustment" ...

Oh stop it with your inferiority complex, we all have to start somewhere. You will learn if you stay with it. Be careful of siding with Ignoranus, he will adopt you and the consequences take a long time to shake.

quote:

inferiority complex

Are you going to make it over to Niles anytime soon? If so try to make it out the the world for a couple days. We'll take you to the tractor pulls and a square dance ...

Macifej,

Im not sure if you are making a promise to Gerard, or making a threat.

Mean threat, if that is what it is.

JPK

Agent "J",

I'll leave this alone, as neither party here deserves this. So, we agree to disagree. I'm sure we will have plenty of time to debate our differences within AR, and look forward to doing so, but this isn't going anywhere.

You make a nice bullet, and I look forward to doing some testing with you some day. As to your offer, we should. Let's all get together sometime, or if you ever care to stop by, we'll be here. Might even venture your way as I do every so often, so I'll give you a "Halla" and we can do lunch. But as to your tractor pull and country livin', I'm your Huckelberry. I'm sure your west cost Cali-world don't know much 'bout that, but it's a good time. Would look forward to some old-school country activities with ya! How about some good-ol' armwrestling? Winner makes a better bullet!

Later

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
Macifej,

Im not sure if you are making a promise to Gerard, or making a threat.

Mean threat, if that is what it is.

JPK

You think tractor pulls and square dancin' is mean ...??

Jeus, someone is going to suggest they take him
to Hill billy country and "Squeal like a ........."


No offence meant to people who live in "Deliverance" country.

If it has an engine that makes big horsepower and turns the wheels, I will watch it all day. Square dancing.. I don't think so. Light recreation gets boring very quickly. F1 GP in Spain this weekend.

Gerard, I sent you an email a week ago. No response. I also see that I can't send you a PM. You have me blocked! Not sure why. In any case, all I want to do is buy some bullets (9.3FNs) from you, so, when you have the time, please reply to my email.
Thanks, Peter.

Peter,
Which mail address did you use? My address is gerard@wol.co.za

quote:

I also see that I can't send you a PM. You have me blocked! Not sure why.

I have not blocked you on PM, my PM system here on AR is deactivated. I have difficulty getting to all my mail and prefer not to have to contend with PMs as well.

Thanks for replying Gerard. I tried to contact you via the email address on your website (contact us). I just sent you an email using the address you just gave me (above).
Peter.