quote:

Originally posted by SINNER:
...there's definitely some hurdles to overcome here

quote:

Originally posted by SINNER:

There is always room for more brother Tinker. Peter is well aware that I like to buy in bulk.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve from California:
I don't have a dog in this fight. No one seems to have seen current Rigby production.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:

quote:

Originally posted by Philip A.:

A Best English Gun can only be built by Brits, schooled in the trade in England, thinking like Englishmen, and working like Englishmen.

This is just so much

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Most everyone into Double rifles, agrees that the British doubles built before WWII, have the best "feel."
I know I certainly do.

What I do not understand is, WHY can't the modern makers just duplicate the "feel" of the British doubles.

."

quote:

Originally posted by jens poulsen:

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Most everyone into Double rifles, agrees that the British doubles built before WWII, have the best "feel."
I know I certainly do.

What I do not understand is, WHY can't the modern makers just duplicate the "feel" of the British doubles.

."

..Because they don`t have it in them.

They use different barrelprofiling, wrong stockdimensions, sights placed wrongly, + all the smaller details they don`t see, because again, they don`t have it in them.

quote:

They use different barrelprofiling, wrong stockdimensions, sights placed wrongly, + all the smaller details they don`t see, because again, they don`t have it in them.

quote:

Originally posted by peterdk:
Thank goodness for the 24 hour internet and Skype.

The Directors of John Rigby & Co. ( Gunmakers) Ltd. Have just finished an impromptu virtual board meeting.

We are cognisant of the fact that the few of you who have over the past years purchased a “Rigby” double rifle, made in California, may now feel that your investment has been devalued.

We here, are not desirous of a situation where the shooting and collecting public are harmed by our insistence on a quality hand built product. Quite the opposite.

We would like to extend the following offer to the few owners of these guns.

We will by private treaty, on an individual basis, supply you with a replacement equivalent John Rigby & Co. (Gunmakers) Ltd., gun for a sum representing the net cost of production of the replacement gun.
If you have had bespoke engraving, we will arrange for the duplication of that engraving, again at net cost.

You may retain your John Rigby&Co. Inc. gun and dispose of it in any manner you feel appropriate.

All such transactions will be strictly confidential agreements between such parties and ourselves.

The Board of Directors,
John Rigby & Co. (Gunmakers) Ltd., Jno.Rigby & Co.

quote:

Are any lights going off here yet? Be very careful here guys.

quote:

Originally posted by SINNER:
From a legal standpoint looking at the timeline, listed company history and Royal warrants on Rigby California website, it does appear they do have rights based in the UK. Wether those rights hold up I have no idea but they are there none the less. This is where I get confused on whom owns what..

Here are the links to them:

http://www.johnrigbyandco.com/...orical_timeline.html

http://www.johnrigbyandco.com/html/history.html

http://www.johnrigbyandco.com/.../royal_warrants.html

__________________________

John H.

..
NitroExpress.com - the net's double rifle forum

quote:

Originally posted by Mintyman:
If Inc. had ever made a decent gun then this could not happen. Nobody could do this to Purdey or H+H.

quote:

I have got the asking price of a C class shotgun and I am going to drop them an e-mail now. These first guns are going to be a piece of history I feel.

__________________________

John H.

..
NitroExpress.com - the net's double rifle forum

quote:

Originally posted by goshoot:
I am not an expert on US or UK trademark law but I can't see the courts allowing the new English Rigby to use the name. I'll bet Butch Searcy doesn't have his name registered in all the 160+ countries around the globe. Do you really think the courts would allow someone in Japan or elsewhere to use his name or one confusingly close to make rifles and sell them to customers here in the US? I don't believe the English courts will allow this either. If the California company is not doing so well perhaps the English company is just picking a fight to start negotiations the buy back the name.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Company name registration laws are national, not international and if the name is available in the UK and someone registers it and starts to trade under that name, even if its a similar name to another company elsewhere in the world, there's nothing a foreign court can do to prevent that.

quote:

Please refer to my earlier post and do a search at companies house in the UK.

No company by the name John Rigby and Co.(Gunmakers)Ltd. has ever been owned by persons registered outside of the UK.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

quote:

Originally posted by goshoot:
I am not an expert on US or UK trademark law but I can't see the courts allowing the new English Rigby to use the name. I'll bet Butch Searcy doesn't have his name registered in all the 160+ countries around the globe. Do you really think the courts would allow someone in Japan or elsewhere to use his name or one confusingly close to make rifles and sell them to customers here in the US? I don't believe the English courts will allow this either. If the California company is not doing so well perhaps the English company is just picking a fight to start negotiations the buy back the name.

Company name registration laws are national, not international and if the name is available in the UK and someone registers it and starts to trade under that name, even if its a similar name to another company elsewhere in the world, there's nothing a foreign court can do to prevent that.

Logos and trademarks are slightly different but that's not the issue here. No one is copying either of those things.

Whoever's right, as with the product, time will tell.

quote:

Originally posted by goshoot:
I am not an expert on US or UK trademark law but I can't see the courts allowing the new English Rigby to use the name. I'll bet Butch Searcy doesn't have his name registered in all the 160+ countries around the globe. Do you really think the courts would allow someone in Japan or elsewhere to use his name or one confusingly close to make rifles and sell them to customers here in the US? I don't believe the English courts will allow this either. If the California company is not doing so well perhaps the English company is just picking a fight to start negotiations the buy back the name.

quote:

Originally posted by goshoot:
If that is the case please tell me about other major name brand items sold here in the US with the same name but made in other countries. Most companies can't afford the time or money to register themselves in all 160+ countries. If it was easy to get a free ride on someone else's good name by just making stuff in China, India etc. with no legal problems I think there would be many items sold with the same name here but trademarked in other places. If I was on a jury here in the US and the California company showed they legally bought the Rigby name I would vote for them. With a judgement here they could seize any assets the English company had in the US including demo guns at a show. They also may be able to get an injunction against any importation of the guns.

quote:

Most companies can't afford the time or money to register themselves in all 160+ countries.

quote:

If I was on a jury here in the US and the California company showed they legally bought the Rigby name I would vote for them.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
I have forwarded you comments on to the lawyers for Coke, Pepsi, Intel, Microsoft, Tide, Budweiser, Dell, Conoco, Sprint, and the makers or Viagra

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:

quote:

Originally posted by goshoot:
If that is the case please tell me about other major name brand items sold here in the US with the same name but made in other countries. Most companies can't afford the time or money to register themselves in all 160+ countries. If it was easy to get a free ride on someone else's good name by just making stuff in China, India etc. with no legal problems I think there would be many items sold with the same name here but trademarked in other places. If I was on a jury here in the US and the California company showed they legally bought the Rigby name I would vote for them. With a judgement here they could seize any assets the English company had in the US including demo guns at a show. They also may be able to get an injunction against any importation of the guns.

You can vote on any jury you like in the US, no one will give a stuff what you or any jury in the US does.

They might own the name in the US but obviously not in the UK.

Pepsi, Coke, McDonalds and all those other companies hold international trademarks
or trademarks in each and every country.

Free 500grains

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:

Regarding a jury verdict being limited to the US, it isn't nessecarily so. There are a variety of means of enforcing a US judgment overseas and vice versa.

Assuming the California Rigby has enforcable rights - AN OPEN QUESTION - for something as "small" as the matter discussed, it will boil down to whether the London company can do business in the US. If it cannot, it is already sunk, since the US represents a huge portiion of their potential market.

Trademarks and registrations do not have to be exactly coppied to be wrongfully coppied. Anything judged to be misleading can be a violation of trademark and registration regulations and statutes.

I am an attorney but do not (often) actively practice, on the other hand, I have had experience with trademark and registration issues in business, not as an attorney, and my very brief overview above is a summation of what I believe is the situation, so take it for what its worth - discussion only.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
All those prices are helluva good for a best London built double, but I have to say that UKP15K for a round action double isn't just a good buy......... it's a fucking tremendous buy.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:

quote:

Originally posted by peterdk:
Mr. bush sir, you are comparing a dodge viper to a ferrari. besides being sportscars there are no comparison between the two makes, nor do they intend to do so.

best

peter

It all comes down to what one likes! The current, off the shelf guns are fine but are not in the same league as a fine English double. This really becomes obvious when you try and sell one of the "off the rack doubles".

Peter, Peter, Peter, what am I going to do with you? Everytime we start comparing doubles someone makes this silly car anology. A car weighs thousands of pounds, has thousands of parts as well as computer controlled gear and electrical components. A double rifle weighs ten pounds and bascially consists of two barrels, an action, two triggers and two pieces of wood. The trick is getting the barrels to shoot to regulation but I told you... I SURRENDER! It's your money and you have to spend it your way. If you think that a Holland & Holland round action sidelock if worth $35,000 more than a Heym, hey man, have at it! Bespoke, bespoke, bespoke...

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
JPK,

I agree a lot of rulings can be enforced overseas but from what I know of UK company registration law (and I have a fair bit of experience of it) I think you'll find that the new UK based company have the matter sewed up completely.

I appreciate they might not be able to have a US based agent but I see no reason why a US citizen can't buy and import them privately......Land of the Free and all that!

I'd also question that the US is a particularly significant market for bespoke English doubles. The Americans might have the money but many probably don't have the inclination.

goshoot

Only if Toyota had allowed their company registration to lapse.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:

quote:

Originally posted by Gator1:
Dave

You wouldn't happen to own a California Rigby with those glued on barrels and apprentice level engraving would you? Or have you just bought into the paid for advertising put out in articles by a well known, and locally favourite, gun writer about the quality of the the Miller rifles?

Nope but I have to confess, I think Geoff Miller is kinda getting screwed here.

quote:

Originally posted by goshoot:
So I guess I could put the "John" in front of Toyota and make cars called "John Toyota" with no legal problems???

quote:

Originally posted by goshoot:
What difference would that make. John Toyota is a completely different name than Toyota by your logic.