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.25ACP on Deer and larger
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Hot Core---You are correct, I did come down hard and shouldn't have. You described somewhat of a "circus" shot and I do think I would have passed on that one. I guess what bothered me was you have put down everyone that has used smaller---.223 for example despite all the actual reports where they work favorably. It also bothers me when people try to advance the misconception that they are using a bigger gun and it somewhat forgives bad shots. Yes I have taken 2 shots I can think of that I regret. One was using a cast bullet in .243 on a spike buck. No blood found and I have no clue how bad it was wounded. The other, I got 2 antelope with one shot--from 30-06( who knows with a .223 may have only gotten one.)
 
Posts: 3811 | Location: san angelo tx | Registered: 18 November 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by carpetman1:
... It also bothers me when people try to advance the misconception that they are using a bigger gun and it somewhat forgives bad shots. ...
Yes, bad shots happen. That is why I do like to use a larger cartridge. I agree it does not "forgive bad shots", but it often slows them down enough that a second shot is worthwhile.

The other 6 did get a second shot.
-----

We all know jeffe is too big of a weenie to shoot anything without a Lead Sled attached to it. Heck, it would not surprise me to hear he used a Lead Sled on carpetmans favorite rifle - the old Sheridan Blue Streak. rotflmo

So, I'll run out the old bsflag on jeffe trying to make us think he actually shot the Hog.
 
Posts: 9920 | Location: Carolinas, USA | Registered: 22 April 2001Reply With Quote
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Are we all having fun or what???!!!!! jumping


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Posts: 28849 | Location: western Nebraska | Registered: 27 May 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by vapodog:
Are we all having fun or what???!!!!! jumping


Shame on you Vapo! shame Don't you know AR is only for serious, hardcore shooting and reloading topics!

quote:
fgulla
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Posted 10 March 2010 05:25 Hide Post

1/2moa@200- Yeah it seems like this site has turned into troll city, with all these macho, magnum toting, big game serial killers.

Alot of people come to sites like this to learn and then you start seeing shit like"25acp for deer and crap" its funny but you dont see the Europeans or any other culture with such ignorant, arguements, based on no experience.


The Europeans are sooooo superior!
 
Posts: 3427 | Registered: 05 August 2008Reply With Quote
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I just want to know if when he shot that deer in the ear, was it a dead deer or a deaf deer?
jumping
hammering
 
Posts: 323 | Location: Northeastern, PA | Registered: 21 June 2002Reply With Quote
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I guess it depends on if it bounced off the Ear drum or not. Big Grin
 
Posts: 2650 | Location: Lakewood, CO | Registered: 15 February 2003Reply With Quote
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A friend had a small .25 Auto years ago so I bought a box of 50 for it and on the first shot I rolled a pigeon off the top of a barn about 75 feet distance. I was impressed at the accuracy of the gun....

After 49 more shots, that pigeon was the only thing I hit with it......and I shot at much bigger targets and a lot closer too.....

I suspect the actual range is typified by the inserting in the deer's ear and firing as that's how reliable the accuracy impressed me.

Across the card table might be too far!!!


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Posts: 28849 | Location: western Nebraska | Registered: 27 May 2003Reply With Quote
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Hot Core---You are still trying to advance the theory that a big gun forgives. By saying it slows em down for a second shot. (A false sense of security--like a condom with a big hole in it.) Whose to say a smaller gun wouldn't have? I think that false notion of a bigger gun does tempt some people into trying a shot they should not. You are correct my old Sheridan Blue Streak is one of my favorite rifles--use it all time. I have purple martin houses and thus get sparrows and starlings--plenty of targets. BTW the martins finally arrived from South America--first time Ive ever seen this happen as late as March.
 
Posts: 3811 | Location: san angelo tx | Registered: 18 November 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Grenadier:
quote:
Originally posted by vapodog:

Anyone chamber it in a Marlin 39A?


No, but I heard that in a pinch you can fire them in your Browning M2 .50cal machine-gun as long as you can get them to stay in the links.

if you turn the cartridges sideways they will stay in the .50cal links.
 
Posts: 344 | Location: Kansas | Registered: 27 July 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
if you turn the cartridges sideways they will stay in the .50cal links.

Darn right.....and the accuracy isn't affected at all.


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Posts: 28849 | Location: western Nebraska | Registered: 27 May 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by vapodog:
quote:
if you turn the cartridges sideways they will stay in the .50cal links.

Darn right.....and the accuracy isn't affected at all.


you see, the 25 acp isn't the best machine gun ammo, too ...


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 40042 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by vapodog:
A friend had a small .25 Auto years ago so I bought a box of 50 for it and on the first shot I rolled a pigeon off the top of a barn about 75 feet distance. I was impressed at the accuracy of the gun....
Any chance it died from laughter. Wink
 
Posts: 9920 | Location: Carolinas, USA | Registered: 22 April 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by carpetman1:
Hot Core---You are still trying to advance the theory that a big gun forgives. By saying it slows em down for a second shot.
Yes, in most all situations. "If" a proper Bullet is used in an Adequate Cartridge, and placed "near" to a Killing Shot location it for sure changes the speed at which Game is able to move. However, I do agree with you that a Badly placed Shot - even with an Adequate Cartridge - can result in wounded and lost Game. So I think we are closer on this than you might believe. Your totally Blind faith in the weenie Inadequate Cartridges has blocked input from those of us with a HUGE amount of experience.
quote:
Whose to say a smaller gun wouldn't have? ...
Me! Big Grin I base that on Killing many hundreds of Deer with the 243Win. That allowed me to see what a "marginal at best" Deer Cartridge performed like. Using similar shot placement with Larger Cartridges, the results were/are very clear - a Larger Cartridge with aproper Bullet with good Shot Placement is more deadly than a weenie Inadequate Cartridge.

If a person would try the 243Win, and Kill enough Game, it would be obvious to anyone - except jeffee.
 
Posts: 9920 | Location: Carolinas, USA | Registered: 22 April 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Hot Core:
quote:
Originally posted by vapodog:
A friend had a small .25 Auto years ago so I bought a box of 50 for it and on the first shot I rolled a pigeon off the top of a barn about 75 feet distance. I was impressed at the accuracy of the gun....
Any chance it died from laughter. Wink
As a matter of fact.....I never did find a bullet hole in that bird!!!!!
maybe..... animal


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Posts: 28849 | Location: western Nebraska | Registered: 27 May 2003Reply With Quote
<Andrew cempa>
posted
I'll have to agree with Hotcore on this topic-a "more adequate" cartridge usually provide more effect shot for shot (placement) than a lesser cartridge. Usually smaller calibers do very well if placement is well within optimal limits. The nominal penetration and shallow wound channels from a 223 or 6mm, can result in failure (slow death/low percentage of recovery)copared to the same tough shot with a 180 30 caliber-which will have a higher probability of penetrating on to the vitals (on a hard quatering away shot, let's say).

That said, I no longer shoot anything other than varmints with small calibers-30 cal plus is my preferred range....

Too many passed shots on nice stuff when I know a steep angle hit was too risky with a 100 grain 6mm or a 70 grain 22. With say 180 grn 30 cal partitions, I can stand the shot if I am reasonably certain of my ability to drive one through to the vitals.

No, I do not wait for a "perfect" broadside shot-unless I am bow hunting.

Your results/opinion may vary. That's called liberty.
 
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Grenadier---Are you thinking of a scope for it? Open sights don't utilize it's long range potential.
 
Posts: 3811 | Location: san angelo tx | Registered: 18 November 2009Reply With Quote
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Grenadier--That skinny scope would work for high level lighting, but you need atleast 50MM objective for anytime other than maybe noon.
 
Posts: 3811 | Location: san angelo tx | Registered: 18 November 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by carpetman1:
I just read a boring thread on using .223 on deer. Everybody is in complete agreement on the subject--no controversy. I wanted to start a thread that will generate some difference of opinion and controversy---maybe even start some flames. Tell us about your experience or lack thereof of using .25ACP on deer size and larger game.


I once shot a Woodchuck with the little .25 ACP and the Groundhog turned around and made a face at me and lumbered off. I don't even think he thought he was hit. No Blood, but I did hit him at 15 yards.


David
 
Posts: 332 | Location: Backwoods Of Kentucky | Registered: 18 September 2005Reply With Quote
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DRS---Certainly you hit that groundhog at 15 yards with that .25ACP---no way a guy from Ky could miss.
 
Posts: 3811 | Location: san angelo tx | Registered: 18 November 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by DRS:
quote:
Originally posted by carpetman1:
I just read a boring thread on using .223 on deer. Everybody is in complete agreement on the subject--no controversy. I wanted to start a thread that will generate some difference of opinion and controversy---maybe even start some flames. Tell us about your experience or lack thereof of using .25ACP on deer size and larger game.


I once shot a Woodchuck with the little .25 ACP and the Groundhog turned around and made a face at me and lumbered off. I don't even think he thought he was hit. No Blood, but I did hit him at 15 yards.
You’re luck he didn’t turn around and charge you. God only knows how bad your shoelaces would have been torn up.
 
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ConfusedAre we moving to the 32 auto----soon? popcornroger


Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone..
 
Posts: 10226 | Location: Temple City CA | Registered: 29 April 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by bartsche:
ConfusedAre we moving to the 32 auto----soon? popcornroger
tu2 animal


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Posts: 28849 | Location: western Nebraska | Registered: 27 May 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by MickinColo:
quote:
Originally posted by DRS:
I once shot a Woodchuck with the little .25 ACP and the Groundhog turned around and made a face at me and lumbered off. I don't even think he thought he was hit. No Blood, but I did hit him at 15 yards.
You’re luck he didn’t turn around and charge you. God only knows how bad your shoelaces would have been torn up.


lol


David
 
Posts: 332 | Location: Backwoods Of Kentucky | Registered: 18 September 2005Reply With Quote
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I once didn't shoot a woodchuck with a .25ACP and he didn't turn around so I didn't shoot again. Do you think a .22 short would be more effective and humane?


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Posts: 420 | Location: Troy, Michigan | Registered: 21 December 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeMichalski:
I once didn't shoot a woodchuck with a .25ACP and he didn't turn around so I didn't shoot again. Do you think a .22 short would be more effective and humane?
At 15 yards you may be over gunned with a 22 short, I don’t know. But if you want a “humane kill” maybe you should import wolves. Big Grin
 
Posts: 2650 | Location: Lakewood, CO | Registered: 15 February 2003Reply With Quote
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hey..
like hotsore, i too have not taken many thousands of deer with the 25 ACP .. or 223


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 40042 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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There is some great info here and of course I am near dead from laughter at this point but I thought it was important that you all know I have not ever shot or hunted with a 25 ACP. I really wanted to buy a couple Jennings many years ago when they were $24.99 in Shotgun News regularly but realized after measuring one that it was .5" too big to fit down my cannon barrel! How could I shoot anything with it if I could not even load the thing? I figured the second one I would shoot off a fencepost but with the loading issues found on the first one why bother with shoointg the second one, in fact I could save the 50 bucks and buy some ammo.

I still have fond memories of perusing cannon ads and thinking "if I could only afford a 3" mountain howitzer, then I too could shoot a 25ACP" I guess I still have something to look forward to. Maybe I will have to buy that 3 incher.

Matthew

Future 25 ACP shooter Smiler
 
Posts: 383 | Location: Oregon | Registered: 29 May 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Matthewx:
There is some great info here and of course I am near dead from laughter at this point but I thought it was important that you all know I have not ever shot or hunted with a 25 ACP. I really wanted to buy a couple Jennings many years ago when they were $24.99 in Shotgun News regularly but realized after measuring one that it was .5" too big to fit down my cannon barrel! How could I shoot anything with it if I could not even load the thing? I figured the second one I would shoot off a fencepost but with the loading issues found on the first one why bother with shoointg the second one, in fact I could save the 50 bucks and buy some ammo.

I still have fond memories of perusing cannon ads and thinking "if I could only afford a 3" mountain howitzer, then I too could shoot a 25ACP" I guess I still have something to look forward to. Maybe I will have to buy that 3 incher.

Matthew

Future 25 ACP shooter Smiler

Matt, we need to take up a fund to get you a 12 pounder. That way you could shoot numerous 25 ACPs at one time. Big Grin
 
Posts: 2650 | Location: Lakewood, CO | Registered: 15 February 2003Reply With Quote
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I've never shot any game with the 25 acp round, I'm recoil shy so probably never will. But I have heard of a fellow in TN that has one on an AR plarform and like most of his guns it too shoots one hole groups at 300 yards. wow imagine that, one hole groups!! animal
 
Posts: 1681 | Registered: 15 October 2006Reply With Quote
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swheeler--one hole group at 300 yds with .25ACP--that would take some judicious weighing of some sort of filler to accomplish that--maybe even duplexing.
 
Posts: 3811 | Location: san angelo tx | Registered: 18 November 2009Reply With Quote
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I have heard tales of coalition snipers in Iraq and Afganistan making documented kills at ranges in excess of a mile while not using th .25ACP. Amazing!
 
Posts: 344 | Location: Kansas | Registered: 27 July 2008Reply With Quote
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I had to re-read this thread a couple of times... you guys are talking about SHOOTING the guns. I thought it was about chunking them in the head with the pistol. So sorry

True story.

In the 1940s and 50s it was acceptable to shoot a musky boatside in Wisconsin. Catch and fillet was the word of the day. My Gramps worked in West Allis and took two weeks a year vacation in the Boulder Junction area. One week deer hunting and one in the summer musky fishing. He took the family in the summer.

He finally had a good musky boatside. Grampps is long gone now, but made it sound like a 50 pounder. His fishing partner took a careful aim with his 'musky gun' and neatly parted the plug. Gramps got a new partner, threw the half plug away and my brother inherited the pistol.

I am historically certain that the 25 is plenty powerful enough to part a musky plug. Factor in today's progressive powders....
 
Posts: 289 | Location: Western UP of Michigan  | Registered: 05 March 2007Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by jeffee:
hey..i too have not taken ...deer with ...
anything.

Obviously difficult to Kill anything when the fool is toting around a Lead Sled for each and EVERY shot. But, being the Board weenie, that is what Bubba does..
 
Posts: 9920 | Location: Carolinas, USA | Registered: 22 April 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by carpetman1:
swheeler--one hole group at 300 yds with .25ACP--that would take some judicious weighing of some sort of filler to accomplish that--maybe even duplexing.


I'm sure there's some secret technique and then the antigravity alloy, 25 acp cases formed from 105 howitzer brass and on and on. I guess that doesn't really matter as long as he can handle the recoil and continue popping white tails with the DRT shots. Myself, I'll stick with the 30 carbine, lots Griz up here! BOOM
 
Posts: 1681 | Registered: 15 October 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Hot Core:
quote:
Originally posted by jeffee:
hey..i too have not taken ...deer with ...
anything.


Gotta tell ya, hotsore, I'd rather be known for not shooting ANYTHING than being a lazy gutting shooting arseblaster.

how's that "many thousands" thing working for you ... if many is 6,000, you have to shoot a deer a day, 365 days a year, for nearly 16.5 years ..

what a joke


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 40042 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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I'm surprised and disappointed that none of you guys have mentioned any of the historical aspects of .25 ACP use. It has literally changed the course of history...

Some of you may recall the Kaiser Wilhelm guns that were used by the Germans to shell Paris in WW I. Do you not also recall that at the opening of WWII it wasn't just Blitzkrieg that made the German Army almost invincible in Europe?

When the Krauts came through Belgium they dropped paratroops on top of the Maginot line, armed with Mausers and that mightiest of CQB weapons, the .25-ACP rip-off of the English Stench gun. That supposedly impregnable defensive wall fell when the Fallschirmjaegers pretended to be injured, allowed themselves to be captured, then all asked simultaneously to be allowed to use the "pissoirs". Pulling .25 ACPs from their soccer jockstraps, they all then shot their captors and took all the Maginot positions FROM THE INSIDE!

A few days later the ultimate defeat of the continental armies was completed when Heinie threatend the French Cabinet with the mightiest German weapon of all.... the .25ACP "Big Berthas"!

The French were given a choice...either surrender and install the Vichy "puppet" government or face merciless barrages of Paris from about 80 miles out, delivered the by the German railroad-transported versions of the mighty Super 25-ACP +P siege rifles.

Facing that inhumane choice, and in the interests of protecting their caches of goose-liver pate for a desparate civilian population, the French conceeded.

Great Britain was next in line.

Herr Hitler, whose staff had already been working since 1936 on "secret "super weapons" was in the very act of moving Super-Dooper-Pooper-Scooper .25 ACP "channel guns" (SDPSCG) from Peenemunde to LeHavre to begin trans-channel bombardment, when England was inadvertantly saved from invasion.

A drunken Lorry driver (previously trained as a fish-monger) was impressed to "drive" a "Lanc"
over the French coast to take strategic pictures of the invasion army and artillery build-up, intended for later use by the Royal Scots and Black Watch Regiments on picture post cards. They were to be issued in lieu of escape maps, so the poor blokes could at least pass themselves off as French Huegenots if captured during a failed defense of Old Blighty.

Anyway, to specifics....Bobby Blackarse, the lorry driver, was not fully conversant with all the techniques required to keep a Lanc stable, having been gifted with only 43 min. air time as a navigator in a "Wellie" by way of training. To bolster his spirits, he consumed a rather large spare supply (of spirits) and he and his crew took off.

Crossing the channel, they began to patrol the area between LeHavre and the Belgian border. For hours they flew back and forth, finally spotting an immensely threatning build-up of German forces...probably two complete platoons of the feared bicycle troops armed with fresh, gleaming Mausers built and loaned to them by the infamous League of Nations.

Making a large circle to do a fly-over from behind and get the required cinema, Bobby, et. al. were almost over the German troops when a most fortunate chime sounded..."TEA TIME"!!

Well, tin-types would have to wait. Tea was quickly prepared and crackers were quickly passed round. Then back to the phtography run.

The bicyle troops, having a speed advantage on a Lanc, could only be caught by making a slight turn to starboard and crossing a short span of woods which the cyclists' road looped 'round.

Bobby cranked the wheel to the right (he still uses lorry terminology) and gave moderate right rudder.

Fortunately from history's perspective, it was too much.

The Lanc flopped on its back, began to shudder, and gallons of tea sloshed out every window. (The windows were made by the noted Lucas firm, later to go into electronics business as the "Prince of Darkness", and were of usual Lucas quality.)

Anyhow, as fortune would have it, at that very moment they also passed over the rail waggons laden with he secret SDSPCG .25ACP guns, munitions, and support staff.

The plummeting tea thoroughly dampened the steel rail lines. The railway carriages, built to the very narrow European gauge, could not handle the slickness caused by the tea, nor the bumps occasioned by the odd tea leaf, and still provide adequate traction for stable movement of the train.

It began to rock, and within 1/8th kilometer, the entire shebang had upset!!

The .25 ACP SDSPCG guns were so heavy, they could not be removed from the mire of the tea-dampened forest.

And thus was Britain saved from the same fate as France, and history altered for all time!!
 
Posts: 9685 | Location: Cave Creek 85331, USA | Registered: 17 August 2001Reply With Quote
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IIRC the Japanese also had several .25 ACPs on the yamato

It didn't do them much good however as we dropped bombs on it from above.....

When the Yamato became extinct it was again the Americans with the biggest guns on their battleships.

Here's a few of the .25 ACPs now

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F...der_construction.jpg


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Posts: 28849 | Location: western Nebraska | Registered: 27 May 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
you guys are talking about SHOOTING the guns. I thought it was about chunking them in the head with the pistol. So sorry
Actually this idea has genuine merit. We just need to work out the details.

Assume for our experiment a Colt Model 1908 Vest Pocket .25 acp handgun (factory wood grips are acceptable, real mother of pearl is optional).

Let's see, further assume it weighs 13 oz.

Then assume we're talking about your basic Odocoileus virginianus, with an arbitrarily selected weight of, say, 150 pounds.

Then assume a specific distance of 25 yards.

Now, if we want the equal of 1,000 foot pounds muzzle energy, then at what speed do you have to chunk it?

We're bound to have a few math majors here, aren't we?
 
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quote:
Now, if we want the equal of 1,000 foot pounds muzzle energy, then at what speed do you have to chunk it?

One must chuck 13 oz (5687.5 grains)

at roughly 290 FPS to yield 1000 Ft-lb at the muzzle.....


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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill
 
Posts: 28849 | Location: western Nebraska | Registered: 27 May 2003Reply With Quote
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But what if the chucked gun doesn't hit the target muzzle first? What would the energy be if it hits butt first? bewildered Big Grin
 
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