Well folks it is true, My 7 year old daughter killed her first deer today with her little 223 with a 60gr Partition loaded by me. The shot was about 70 yards and I do admit it was a little high but It completely took out the lungs and backbone. The deer dropped in her tracks and never took a step. It surprised me because I was looking for her to run. It's amazing how the little 60gr partition performed. The entry wound was 1/4" and throughout the body was about 1.00" wound channel. The exit was about 1/2"

Very nice. Looking forward to taking my grandsons in a few years. I have some 75 gn hp for my 223 loaded they shoot great about one and a quarter inches at 200 yds have not shot a deer with this load but I think it will be fine

hammer2506--Everybody knows you can't kill a deer with a .22 cal. How long after the picture was taken before the deer ran off? Nice looking daughter. Tell her congrats. To make her a trophy--even though no antlers, read my post about taking a kid hunting and you'll find some tips. Fancy that, took out the lungs and DRT --amazing.

Great start Dad! Congrats to the little lady.

Congratulations to you and your daughter Sir.

While I am not a fan of the .223 or .222 as a deer cartridge, over the 40+ years I have been hunting, I have seen a whole bunch of deer killed with those two cartridges and a whole bunch of folks like your daughter get their start in hunting, doing just exactly what she did. If it helps bring another hunter into the fold, so be it, we need numbers to keep hunting alive. You have done an excellent job in passing along the tradition.

There are still a lot of deer without access to broadband, thus not having read all of the blogs they don't realize they can't be killed with a .22 Centerfire. But tell that beautiful little girl congratulations on my behalf.

I started my grandson's deer hunting career with a .223 using the old Nosler Solid Base 60-grainer. Of course, it all depends on where you hit them, but his first two bucks hit the ground immediately below them and never moved out of those tracks. I'm not sure that the old Solid Base wasn't a better game bullet than the Partition, at least for deer-sized game in .22 Centerfires.

The length of pull on that rifle looks pretty long for that little girl.
Good job to both Father and Daughter.

Priceless!

Yea the length of pull is just a little long, I already cut the stock 2 inches, but she manages well with it.The trigger pull is what is terrible on these little Rossi's. It is about 6lbs. I let her practice about 25 shots shooting water bottles this past weekend and she had a blast doing so. As for the issue on 223 not killing deer, if you take out the heart, lungs or the spine it is definetely a kill shot. The 60 gr. partition done an excellent job I think. The deer dropped instantly and was dead within about 30 seconds. I mean how dead can you kill an animal. Dead is Dead they don't know if they were shot with a 22 cal. or a 50cal. I

quote:

I'm not sure that the old Solid Base wasn't a better game bullet than the Partition, at least for deer-sized game in .22 Centerfires.

I certainly don't promote the general use of a .223 on deer, but years ago I took five Kodiak Island blacktails with six shots out of my AR-15. The 60-grain Solid Base bullets I loaded performed admirably, and while I have not shot the 'new' 60-grain Partition, you couldn't ask the Solid Base to do more than it did. Four one shot kills must prove something (actually five, the first deer didn't react to the first shot so I hit it again, un-needed as it turned out), none were CNS hits.



.

Congrats to your daughter. Cute looking little girl off to a great start.

quote:

Originally posted by TX Nimrod:

quote:

I'm not sure that the old Solid Base wasn't a better game bullet than the Partition, at least for deer-sized game in .22 Centerfires.

I certainly don't promote the general use of a .223 on deer, but years ago I took five Kodiak Island blacktails with six shots out of my AR-15. The 60-grain Solid Base bullets I loaded performed admirably, and while I have not shot the 'new' 60-grain Partition, you couldn't ask the Solid Base to do more than it did. Four one shot kills must prove something (actually five, the first deer didn't react to the first shot so I hit it again, un-needed as it turned out), none were CNS hits.



.

I have a stash of the old Solid Base bullets in 6mm and .270. They are all I use for hunting in my .243 and .270. I also have a few in .30 caliber and am going to let my grandson (now nearly 11) graduate to a short-barreled .308 carbine and see what the Solid Base 150 will do to a hog.

(Apologies for hijacking this thread, but . . .) My theory on the demise of the Nosler Solid Base was that people discovered that it would virtually match the performance of the Partition at half the price, so Nosler decided to phase it out in favor of the Ballistic Tip. While the Ballistic Tip is a fine bullet within its design parameters, it certainly isn't the "same" as the old lead-tipped Solid Base. The Accubond may come close. As you may know, Nosler retained the tooling for the Solid Base and occasionally ramps up and makes a run to sell to ammunition companies for their factory loads. Every now and then, Nosler will sell some of their excess production as "seconds" through their Shooter's Pro Shop. Haven't seen any in a while, though.

quote:

Originally posted by TX Nimrod:

quote:

I'm not sure that the old Solid Base wasn't a better game bullet than the Partition, at least for deer-sized game in .22 Centerfires.

I certainly don't promote the general use of a .223 on deer, but years ago I took five Kodiak Island blacktails with six shots out of my AR-15. The 60-grain Solid Base bullets I loaded performed admirably, and while I have not shot the 'new' 60-grain Partition, you couldn't ask the Solid Base to do more than it did. Four one shot kills must prove something (actually five, the first deer didn't react to the first shot so I hit it again, un-needed as it turned out), none were CNS hits.



.

Thats cool.

One of my best friends hunted Sitka blacktails with a mini-14 and I watched him shoot a few deer with 60 grain solid based Noslers. I reloaded them for him and I thought they were the best bullets we had tried.

She might be over gunned. You might want to try a .17 Hornet the next time.

Thank you for being a good dad and raising the next generation right.
That pic to the sportsman is priceless.

quote:

Originally posted by hammer2506:
Well folks it is true, My 7 year old daughter killed her first deer today with her little 223 with a 60gr Partition loaded by me. The shot was about 70 yards and I do admit it was a little high but It completely took out the lungs and backbone. The deer dropped in her tracks and never took a step. It surprised me because I was looking for her to run. It's amazing how the little 60gr partition performed. The entry wound was 1/4" and throughout the body was about 1.00" wound channel. The exit was about 1/2"

Thats an awesome experience. Way to go. What a fantastic picture and look at that smile.

That picture is just too danged cute!

For years, I too thought the .223 was too small for whitetail deer. But then I read an article in the North American Hunter magazine that helped push me at least a little towards considering it as a deer cartridge.

I might try mine on a doe or two and see...

Shof--A magazine article puts a stamp of approval on it, but numerous testimonies and threads here about such didn't make you think it might work?

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Shof--A magazine article puts a stamp of approval on it, but numerous testimonies and threads here about such didn't make you think it might work?

I've seen just about as many guys saying they've killed a bunch of deer with a .223 as those that said they'd never dream of using one.

So I'm thinking that now that I have one, I might try it and see first-hand how it works. If I can drop a deer quickly with one shot, then I'll try it again. If I shoot a deer and it runs too far before it dies, then I won't use it again....

quote:

Originally posted by Shof:

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Shof--A magazine article puts a stamp of approval on it, but numerous testimonies and threads here about such didn't make you think it might work?

I've seen just about as many guys saying they've killed a bunch of deer with a .223 as those that said they'd never dream of using one.

So I'm thinking that now that I have one, I might try it and see first-hand how it works. If I can drop a deer quickly with one shot, then I'll try it again. If I shoot a deer and it runs too far before it dies, then I won't use it again....

You watch some of them on youtube.
Some are successful, some run off.

quote:

Originally posted by Shof:

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Shof--A magazine article puts a stamp of approval on it, but numerous testimonies and threads here about such didn't make you think it might work?

I've seen just about as many guys saying they've killed a bunch of deer with a .223 as those that said they'd never dream of using one.

So I'm thinking that now that I have one, I might try it and see first-hand how it works. If I can drop a deer quickly with one shot, then I'll try it again. If I shoot a deer and it runs too far before it dies, then I won't use it again....

That's how I started. I was very skeptical at first myself. Your own experience will tell you a lot more than a youtube video will.

Terry

Thats great! Both of my daughters shot their first deer with a .223. One was 9 and one was 7 when they got their first. Thanks for sharing.

Typical city boys. Of course you can kill a deer with a .223. You might be able to kill a cape buffalo with one too. The point is on youtube you get to see other peoples experience for free and understand why it is not a universally recommended deer cartridge. If you have a closet full of better rounds all I can say is why use it? Just to experiment? How big can it go, or how little cartridge can I get by with? Shoot a deer with a .223 so I can run to the net with photos and talk about my kindergarden kids shooting a deer they cannot field dress?

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:

quote:

Originally posted by Shof:

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Shof--A magazine article puts a stamp of approval on it, but numerous testimonies and threads here about such didn't make you think it might work?

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/groupee_common/ver1.3.7.2147483647/platform_images/blank.gif

I've seen just about as many guys saying they've killed a bunch of deer with a .223 as those that said they'd never dream of using one.

So I'm thinking that now that I have one, I might try it and see first-hand how it works. If I can drop a deer quickly with one shot, then I'll try it again. If I shoot a deer and it runs too far before it dies, then I won't use it again....

That's how I started. I was very skeptical at first myself. Your own experience will tell you a lot more than a youtube video will.

Terry

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:

You watch some of them on youtube.
Some are successful, some run off.

Hmmmm . . . the same is true of deer shot with a .300 magnum.

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
Typical city boys. Of course you can kill a deer with a .223. You might be able to kill a cape buffalo with one too. The point is on youtube you get to see other peoples experience for free and understand why it is not a universally recommended deer cartridge. If you have a closet full of better rounds all I can say is why use it? Just to experiment? How big can it go, or how little cartridge can I get by with? Shoot a deer with a .223 so I can run to the net with photos and talk about my kindergarden kids shooting a deer they cannot field dress?

Typical cyber hunter response. Gain a little first hand experience and get back with us. Youtube hunting knowledge, HAR! And you call me a city boy.

Terry

I noticed that some of you lads have had sons and daughters that are very young when they start hunting big game and they are being successful.

Here in Idaho you need to be 12 years old and have taken a Hunters Ed class before you can get a hunting license for big game. You can hunt small game at age 10 and in both cases you must be accompanied by an adult within conversation range. Maybe the state of Idaho is concerned that if the age were lowered for big game, adult hunters would fill the youth tag as well as their own.

Question:

What is the minimum age in your state to hunt big game and what state do you live in ???

I live in the wonderful state of Tennessee. In order to hunt small game or big game, you must be at least 6 years old. And of course you must be accompanied by an adult or legal guardian...

No minimum age here, but you have to pass the hunters safety test.
I enjoy taking kids hunting far more then hunting myself. I can get "buck fever" waiting for a kid get lined up for a shot, where if I saw the same deer it would simply be BANG dead.
It's not the squeezing of the trigger the kids will remember. It's the fox jumping for mice you see while your out, the porky chewing on a limb. There are so many things to absorb for a sponge like mind of kids. I have many, 10-15 yrs after the first time I'd taken them tell me how they remember those first days afield.
The 223 with some of the bullets available, at the ranges kids are apt to shoot, are better killers then many older rounds that were used. Truckloads of deer fell to 25-20's and 32-20's, the small rook rifles in the commonwealth countries and 32-36 cal muzzleloaders in the days past.
If you dont like it, dont use it, but it works great to start a kid out with despite the nay-sayers.

Shof--"I've seen about as many guys saying they've killed a bunch of deer with a .223 as those that said they'd never dream of it". There is your answer--you have those that have been there done that saying one thing and those with keyboard experience saying they wouldn't do it. I've seen almost no negative reports by someone that has actually done it. Yes, there was one report of 20 something well aimed shots and the deer ran off. I just wonder how many counties away the deer was by the time even 15 shots had been fired? Like TC1, I too was very skeptical. Possibly my first experience was a doe my grandson wanted to shoot with my .222. At first I said no. It was getting late and I didn't want a tracking job in the dark. I reluctantly agreed and he shot. The doe jumped as if hit and took off in a dead run. I was thinking, what was I thinking? Wishing I had stuck to my first decision to not let him shoot. About 50-60 yards away the deer was piled up dead--dead run was very accurate. I've seen em hit about same place with a 30-06 that went much further. As it has turned out, that deer traveled much further than any other deer I have ever seen shot with a .22 centerfire. There have been many since that one and straight down has been the rule. SR4759--You nailed it. My grandson was about 9 or 10 and couldn't field dress that deer. I give him credit, he was holding legs out of the way and doing whatever he could to help, but I was the one getting my hands bloody and holding the knife. Funny thing, by the time he was 12, roles were reversed. He had the knife and bloody hands and was holding the knife and I was holding the legs. He also was skinning them when we got them home. Strong kid he packs them out by himself. BTW did you field dress the first one you shot? If so at what age? Or is it an assumption on my part that you have any actual experience?

Teancum--Here in Texas, there is no age restriction when accompanied. To be qualified to accompany you have to have either completed the safety hunter course or been born before Sep 2,1971. Minimum age for completing safety course is age 9. So two 9 year olds could go hunting if one had the course. At age 17 you have to have completed course or purchase a deferral and be accompanied. You can buy a license without completing the course -- so the possibility of someone else filling that tag does exist. Times have changed. When I was 9 or even younger I could walk down the street carrying a shotgun headed to the fields to hunt dove. There was no hunter safety course back then. Don't think that would fly nowadays.

SR4759--Your trolling into the small caliber section and hijacking threads with your babble of needing bigger guns and how inferior the guns being used --even if it killed the deer and that the kids shooting deer don't field dress them(perhaps insinuating they are wimps) really isn't impressive. What would be impressive if you followed Saeed around and let him know what a wimp he is in that he doesn't field dress all those animals he shoots in Africa. Go do that a few times and report back which threads you did it on--that would be impressive. Surely you aren't too much of a wimp to do that.

quote:

So I'm thinking that now that I have one, I might try it and see first-hand how it works. If I can drop a deer quickly with one shot, then I'll try it again. If I shoot a deer and it runs too far before it dies, then I won't use it again....

A couple nuances with 22 cals is sometimes there may be no bloodtrail at all and finding the entrance holes usually requires parting hairs. I usually see dimesized exits.

If you think you made a hit look for the animal thoroughly even if you dont see any blood at all.

quote:

Originally posted by RMiller:

A couple nuances with 22 cals is sometimes there may be no bloodtrail at all and finding the entrance holes usually requires parting hairs. I usually see dimesized exits.

If you think you made a hit look for the animal thoroughly even if you dont see any blood at all.

Those are things that I've already thought of, but thanks for the heads up.

I ve cussed the 223 also for years, and on this board, and the other day one of the local game wardens told me about his kids taking blacktail bucks out to 200 yards with a 22-250. and a good bullet of course.....

quote:

Originally posted by Shof:
So I'm thinking that now that I have one, I might try it and see first-hand how it works. If I can drop a deer quickly with one shot, then I'll try it again. If I shoot a deer and it runs too far before it dies, then I won't use it again....

quote:

Originally posted by RMiller:
A couple nuances with 22 cals is sometimes there may be no bloodtrail at all and finding the entrance holes usually requires parting hairs. I usually see dimesized exits.

If you think you made a hit look for the animal thoroughly even if you dont see any blood at all.

quote:

Originally posted by Shof:
Those are things that I've already thought of, but thanks for the heads up.

This is a typical conversation between a person willing to experiment using a 223 on deer and a reasonable person.

We already know that eventually, sooner than later, the result will be a dead deer that you can't track down. Yet, your rationalization is pure BS, in advance. You will continue to use the 223 even when you prove it to be inadequate. It's a foregone conclusion.

Some people know better logically. Some learn from mistakes. Some rationalize.

You rationalize the use of it to start with so whats to stop you from rationalizing the continued use of it?

These 223 on deer threads are classic AR BS.

The sorry little cartridge ought to be outlawed nation wide as a deer cartridge. Ethical people wouldn't use it for such purpose. It's not even proper to call a user of a 223 on deer a "hunter".

If you just have to experiment on deer with a 223, at least use a 60gr or heavier bullet, not a varmint bullet as used by carpetnagger and others.

KB

Yes Kabluey uses atleast a 60 grainer for all his keyboard kills.

I spent 4 hours last Sunday morning looking for a deer that was shot at 80yrds with a 300win mag. Never found it and this is the second time in four years for the same guy, same shot scenario. He has 30+ years worth of shooting his 6 deer tags per year and has proven to me he can shoot the rifle well at the range.

I'm well in to double digits with .224 centerfires and have yet to loose one. Is it because I know the limitations of my tools? Most likely. Do they work, unquestionably.

I have yet to see or hear any .224 advocate say that the bore diameter makes the ultimate deer rifle, rather the opposite, that they work well within their parameters, just like any other tool.

quote:

Originally posted by marshmandan:
I have yet to see or hear any .224 advocate say that the bore diameter makes the ultimate deer rifle, rather the opposite, that they work well within their parameters, just like any other tool.

Then you havent been reading carpetnagger's posts.

Also, using a 223 for deer is outside the design parameter of the cartridge in the first place. It will work, but so will a nail gun, if you get close enough. Is such use within the parameters of the design intent of the tool? Absolutely not.

KB

So which one is the reasonable person?

I know the effectiveness of the 22 centerfires on deer.

-------

As far as lost deer.... hunt long enough and it can happen for sure.

I have lost three deer with rifles. One was a small Sitka blacktail shot with a 22-250 and a 70 grain speer bullet. Found some bone fragments but no deer. 250 yard shot.

Another was a whitetail fawn 2/3 mature size shot with a 180 E-Tip from a 300 WSM, 2900 FPS 175 yards. Took a front leg off just under the chest. This deer ran out of sight at least 500 yards.

Last one was a mule deer fawn 2/3 mature size 20 guage SST slug 80 yards. This deer was hit too far back, took off and swam the Missouri never to be found by me anyways.

----------------

For deer I have shot 20 Sitka Blacktails, 5 Mule Deer and 5 Whitetails.

Rifles used include: 223 rem(1SB), 22-250 rem (4 SB), 223 WSSM (1 WT), 30-30 (1MD), 308 win (1WT), 300 WSM (2WT,1MD), 300 win mag (7SB), 338 win mag (2SB).

Handguns I've used: 9mm (1SB),41 mag (2 SB), 44mag (1SB), 454 casull (1SB, 1MD).

Archery one each mule deer, sitka and whitetail.

Shotgun 20 guage SST, one Mule deer.

I could deer hunt the rest of my days with any of the rifle rounds listed above.

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:

quote:

Originally posted by marshmandan:
I have yet to see or hear any .224 advocate say that the bore diameter makes the ultimate deer rifle, rather the opposite, that they work well within their parameters, just like any other tool.

Then you havent been reading carpetnagger's posts.



Also, using a 223 for deer is outside the design parameter of the cartridge in the first place. It will work, but so will a nail gun, if you get close enough. Is such use within the parameters of the design intent of the tool? Absolutely not.

KB

So the Barnes Tripple shocks, Nosler Partion,Federal Fusion, and Winchester Power Point were not designed to be big game bullets? Using that logic maybe I should stop hunting deer with my .308.....