quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:

quote:

I teach these kids HUNTING SKILLS

I suspect these kids know learn little of hunting. Most probably cannot haul the gun around on their own. They are probably being taught that hunting is sitting in a box blind and plinking a whitetail with a .223.

Maybe they should be watching YouTube videos on the subject. HAR!

quote:

I suspect these kids know learn little of hunting. Most probably cannot haul the gun around on their own. They are probably being taught that hunting is sitting in a box blind and plinking a whitetail with a .223.

And on this SR, you dont know SHIT, and are just pulling it out of your ass to have a retort.
I read your posts, and often with intrest. I agree or disagree with what you say and have no problem with you and your views. But what you just said is a rotten thing to say about some very dedicated kids that love to learn, shoot and understand. This is a passion for me, teaching the kids that really want to learn. I do very little shooting of animals compared to what I used to, I have found more enjoyment in taking someone else. Ann Horsman does not have the ego problems men do, so I send her pics and stories of hunts I do with others. She doesn't have to run others down because she doesn't agree.
What you just said makes you a total ass in my book.

Finally a man with a reason to use a 223 on Deer ! Assume he was backing her up just in case.
The other endless threads on .224s for deer (and everything else) are just ego trips by the "yes I can" guys with never a rational reason why a big strong man can't handle a 308 class cartridge.
In this one example, it makes some sense for a very small person to use a 223.
It is the FIRST sensible answer to the "Why" question that I never got an honest answer to.
Proper training, the right load, the right range and a small deer ..... no problem. Good luck to a new huntress !

quote:

Originally posted by 45-70 shooter:
Finally a man with a reason to use a 223 on Deer ! Assume he was backing her up just in case.
The other endless threads on .224s for deer (and everything else) are just ego trips by the "yes I can" guys with never a rational reason why a big strong man can't handle a 308 class cartridge.
In this one example, it makes some sense for a very small person to use a 223.
It is the FIRST sensible answer to the "Why" question that I never got an honest answer to.
Proper training, the right load, the right range and a small deer ..... no problem. Good luck to a new huntress !

No, they are not ego trips but then again you would probably choke on the guys that hunt with compound bows let alone the recurve and longbows. Now some of the lads are using spears on big game.

I guess it bothers you to have other people not fall in line and agree with your parameters. Sad.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:

quote:

I suspect these kids know learn little of hunting. Most probably cannot haul the gun around on their own. They are probably being taught that hunting is sitting in a box blind and plinking a whitetail with a .223.

And on this SR, you dont know SHIT, and are just pulling it out of your ass to have a retort.
I read your posts, and often with intrest. I agree or disagree with what you say and have no problem with you and your views. But what you just said is a rotten thing to say about some very dedicated kids that love to learn, shoot and understand. This is a passion for me, teaching the kids that really want to learn. I do very little shooting of animals compared to what I used to, I have found more enjoyment in taking someone else. Ann Horsman does not have the ego problems men do, so I send her pics and stories of hunts I do with others. She doesn't have to run others down because she doesn't agree.
What you just said makes you a total ass in my book.

theback40
I know exactly what I am talking about. You sound exactly like someone that never raised any kids of his own. Your comments have nothing to do with the kids, they have everything to do with your own ignorant selfish view of what constitutes hunting and what makes you puff your chest out. Not one damn bit of that makes those kids hunters and it does not make the .223 a deer rifle.
Hunting is not sitting in a blind, with a .223 the kid cannot even carry, until the kid executes some little doe that is hardly more than a head of livestock. Your so called passion just got out of hand and showed all of us who the real ass is here.

quote:

I know exactly what I am talking about. You sound exactly like someone that never raised any kids of his own.

What shriveled old bastard you must be, I wouldnt want kids around you.
Yes I have kids, that dont play videogames all day, or watch TV all night. Who loves spending hours flipping rocks in a stream and identifying what we found. Knows birds,knows how to track, fish and hunt. I could lets kids shoot a deer out of the window of the house if I just wanted a dead deer, but thats not what it's about. I have no idea where you are getting that these kids are to small to carry their own rifle, in your feeble old mind I guess. I have never mentioned age what so ever and anyone under 20 is a kid to me nowdays. As I said,you could ask Ann AKA aspenhill adventures, but your ego would be to hurt to find out your full of shit. It's easyer to tell you to go fuck yourself and put you on ignore as you proved you can never think you could be anything but right.

TEANCUM, What is sad is you making up crap you know nothing about. Just as an FYI, I have been a bowhunter for 54 years. Started with a Bear Kodiak, then a 4 pulley compound, then a 2 pulley compound, then a cam bow, then a PSE short arrow (fast) special and now a long bow with wooden arrows, feathers and hand sharpened broadheads.
Probably have killed far more deer with a bow than you have with your .224 popgun.
I don't use a 30 pound draw weight bow on deer nor a varmint cartridge. Maybe if you spent some time at the gym, shooting 4 position High Power and understood ballistics 101, you could "man up" and shoot a horrible kicker like a 308 Winchester.(LOL)

The OP made a reasoned decesion based on the hunter, the game and the performance she needed to make a clean kill. Anyone can respect that.
Adult non handicapped males who use a varmint cartridge for deer are in the same class as a .410 gauge Goose hunter. "Look at me, I am so cool." Lost wounded animals/birds ? Who cares they are just dumb animals ?

Mother Gump had it 100% correct: "Stupid is as stupid does."

To try to explain the use of that great deer caliber the mighty .223, to a bunch of numb nuts is beyond their comprehension ability as to try to do so is an exercise in futility.

Something like casting pearls before swine.......

Trying to explain to YOU that this was a very special circumstance makes me wonder who is the dolt ?
Funny how you dropped all the bowhunter BS when smacked with the facts.

The 223 is not a good choice for any adult capable of shooting a more powerful weapon without collapsing into a blubbering pile of Jello.

As you have decided your wisdom will not carry the day here, perhaps it's time to polish up the golf clubs ?

quote:

Originally posted by 45-70 shooter:
Trying to explain to YOU that this was a very special circumstance makes me wonder who is the dolt ?
Funny how you dropped all the bowhunter BS when smacked with the facts.

The 223 is not a good choice for any adult capable of shooting a more powerful weapon without collapsing into a blubbering pile of Jello.

As you have decided your wisdom will not carry the day here, perhaps it's time to polish up the golf clubs ?

More drivel from Larry Root.

quote:

Originally posted by 45-70 shooter:
Trying to explain to YOU that this was a very special circumstance makes me wonder who is the dolt ?
Funny how you dropped all the bowhunter BS when smacked with the facts.

The 223 is not a good choice for any adult capable of shooting a more powerful weapon without collapsing into a blubbering pile of Jello.

As you have decided your wisdom will not carry the day here, perhaps it's time to polish up the golf clubs ?

Actually I've bowhunted for many years. Around 30 critters have fallen to my bows over the years with mostly mule deer, elk, and black bears. I have taken them with a Bear Custom Kodiak Takedown Recuve and with compound bows. All my compound bows were 90lb drawweights. Taken animals from 5 yards to 90 yards with those bow....so.................... seems like all the BS is coming from your end, numb nuts.

I have to oppologize for losing my temper above. Not for anything directed at me, but the running down of kids/young people who want to learn to hunt and shoot. I have yet had to shoot myself after the kids have shot, I attribute it to taking the worry factor of the rifle out of the picture. They have shot it more then they could a larger rifle and are confident in it. A couple have used a 243 with the lighter loads, I couldnt tell the differance in performance to the 223/64 grn load.
Back to the OP. If we dont generate intrest in these young people, we are screwed. I know my state, and expect many others have had a drop in lisence sales over the past 10 yrs. It's sad to think of kids just plugged into an electrical devise. I like to take a kid out to sit and watch a favorite trail and let them see how many differant animals use the same trail, and do it without an I- pod attatched! I have a 15 yr old girl that is the most amazing tracker you could imagine. She far surpasses me in her ability to work out a trail, maybe one day she will be a detective! I just hope everyone gives these kids a chance without running them down, and hope they continue to see the land and animals as important.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:

quote:

The idea of only taking a shot when the conditions are just right just isn't applicable to a broad range of hunters

Where have I been preaching to a broad range of hunters?

RIGHT HERE ON THIS FORUM
I would suggest you take the blinders off and see what really happens in the field by a large cross section of ""HUNTERS"".
Why don't you teach using equipment and judgement that will get the job done over a wide expanse of game positioning and movement rather than selective stationary targets? roger

Having used rifles from a 223 to a 7mag I would rather see a person use a rifle they have practice with no matter the Cal. To one they only shoot once a year. As far as ethics go buy your meat at Walmart where it has been humanely killed and butchered. Next people will argue about the size of fish hooks and how to treat them before you fry them

Amazing that a big strong man who can pull a 90 pound draw weight bow, can't understand that a 7 year old girl can't shoot a 375 H&H Magnum....

"life is a box of choc-o-lits" eh ?

quote:

Originally posted by grandpa:
Next people will argue about the size of fish hooks and how to treat them before you fry them

granpa, you don't fry fish hooks! roger

Roger--"you don't fry fish hooks". I think they would be highly Kosher anyways.

What a bunch of thread hackers I came on here to announce the success of my daughter taking here first deer and that it was successfully taken with the 223, and a bunch of Kablowers and bowhunters say it is impossible to take deer with the 223. Simply amazing! It is not like I would let her shoot a 300 Winchester Mag. She manages well with this little rifle and is quite accurate out to 75yds. I have full confidence in a well placed 223 bullet within 150yds, and will not hesitate to shoot any deer sized animal with it.

quote:

Originally posted by hammer2506:
What a bunch of thread hackers I came on here to announce the success of my daughter taking here first deer and that it was successfully taken with the 223, and a bunch of Kablowers and bowhunters say it is impossible to take deer with the 223. Simply amazing! It is not like I would let her shoot a 300 Winchester Mag. She manages well with this little rifle and is quite accurate out to 75yds. I have full confidence in a well placed 223 bullet within 150yds, and will not hesitate to shoot any deer sized animal with it.

Congrats to your daughter!! She is a cutey!

In capable hands, your daughter's included and with limitations, there is nothing wrong with a 223 as a deer rifle. I guess some of these guys are unwittingly commenting on there own abilities or lack of. I agree it is a shame to trash someone else's success because they disagree.

Keep her at it!!

Adam

quote:

Originally posted by hammer2506:
a bunch of Kablowers and bowhunters say it is impossible to take deer with the 223.

You are an exaggerator sir, in many ways. No one that I know of said it's impossible to take deer with a 223.

Secondly, it's impossible for a seven year old to manage any center fire well, even a 223. Again you exaggerate. IMO, seven is way too young to be hunting. If a kid can't handle a 243, they are not ready. I never did understand why someone would take such young children out to snipe deer. You are exaggerating in all aspects re your post, not the least of which is the usefulness of the 223 for deer.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:

IMO, seven is way too young to be hunting.
KB

X 2 roger

Hammer, put the jerks on ignore. If they even have children they are probably living in front of a Play Station learning to become school mass murderers while Pop is watching porn on his laptop.

A child is never too young to be properly trained in safe gun handling and (if they wish) the ethics and rewards of being a good hunter.

You done good.

Ignore those who are too caught up in their own egos and sucking beer while watching football, when they should be "parenting". We have endless examples of how those kids turn out from the White House to a school in CT.

quote:

Originally posted by hammer2506:
What a bunch of thread hackers I came on here to announce the success of my daughter taking here first deer and that it was successfully taken with the 223, and a bunch of Kablowers and bowhunters say it is impossible to take deer with the 223. Simply amazing! It is not like I would let her shoot a 300 Winchester Mag. She manages well with this little rifle and is quite accurate out to 75yds. I have full confidence in a well placed 223 bullet within 150yds, and will not hesitate to shoot any deer sized animal with it.

Imagine a buck that comes out of a trail 3 feet between two cedar trees about 90 yards away. He stops about 10 feet beyond the trees facing you at about a 30 degree angle. You shoot and he wheels and disappears back between the trees in two jumps. Do you find this deer and if you do how far does he run?
Next buck 340 yards across a wheat field. You can hit him with your .223. What do you do? How far does he run.
Next buck 320 yard opposite direction across the same wheat field. What do you do? How far does he run?
Next buck 80 yards looking right at you through heavy brush with a blinding sun back lighting him. What do you do? If you shoot he cannot be observed because of the blinding sun. If you shoot how far does he run?
Next buck breaks cover and blasts away 60 yards away running at angled off of straight away about 20 degrees. What do you do - shoot or no shoot knowing he is about to hit some heavy brush? If you shoot how far does he run.

Remember you are doing all of this with a .223.

When I imagine a buck shot with a 223, I simply remember that nice buck on the farm several years ago. He was shot in the left shoulder, and was not recovered. We followed blood till we couldn't find anymore.

My nephew and I had been trying to pattern him, and get a good look before actually shooting. But the neighbors had a tempting food plot, and one of those idiots put a varmint bullet in him at daylight one morning. In the dim light and mist, they put the bullet a little too far forward of a clean punch through the ribs, and got too much meat for the explosive varmint type bullet, much like those used by carpetman.

I saw the deer mid- morning when he crossed the road 50' in front of me, sorta carrying that left leg rather than using it. Next I ran into the "hunters" following him (on our property). They gave up on the tracking about then, supposedly to give him time to settle down and maybe bleed out. They fetched their tracking dog and came back, but the deer went onto adjacent property.

My nephew got a buck that we think was him next season. He was effectively removed from the gene pool by the wound, because he still couldn't walk right on that leg, and the shoulder was still festered, and his antlers were deformed on one side.

That's what 223s do to deer in the hands of idiots. With practically anything but a varmint bullet, even in a 223, that shot would have probably killed the buck with minimal tracking and he would have been recovered. It was just a shoulder shot, and practically any bullet designed to not explode would have penetrated enough. There are simply too many 223 users who just don't bother with the details.

KB

quote:

Why don't you teach using equipment and judgement that will get the job done over a wide expanse of game positioning and

Because I feel the odds of a screw up is higher shooting an animal in the ass no matter the caliber then a frontal or broadside shot. If I had ever come home with a animal shot in the ass, I wouldnt have been able to sit on mine for a week, the oldman was very strict on that!

Hammer-25-06--When you are eating imaginary venison---can't be real as your daughter is only 7 and was using a .223, does it seem as filling as the sure nuff venison that was shot with a magnum by an old geezer?

quote:

Originally posted by 45-70 shooter:
If they even have children they are probably living in front of a Play Station learning to become school mass murderers while Pop is watching porn on his laptop.

I don't care how heated arguments get, that is a chitty thing to say about someone that doesn't agree with you.

quote:

Originally posted by scottfromdallas:

quote:

Originally posted by 45-70 shooter:
If they even have children they are probably living in front of a Play Station learning to become school mass murderers while Pop is watching porn on his laptop.

I don't care how heated arguments get, that is a chitty thing to say about someone that doesn't agree with you.

10-4 roger

Funny how you tough guys can hand it out to an ethical hunter who is bringing along the next generation of hunters BUT get all your little shorts in a knot when someone lays a sarcastic remark on you. Perhaps too close to the truth ?

As for that poor crippled buck, he was shot in the wrong place with the wrong bullet by someone who was unwilling to accept the limits imposed by using a .224 bullet on big game. The OP was not glorifying the use of a 223 on deer as some other endless idiot threads on this site have/are doing. He was just telling a nice story about an ethical hunt. The boring ranters should STFU and get back to whatever they do in their meaningless lives.
Time to turn off notification on this thread as there is nothing further that needs to be said.

quote:

Originally posted by 45-70 shooter:


The boring ranters should STFU and get back to whatever they do in their meaningless lives.

Excellent advive, please follow it.

quote:

Originally posted by 45-70 shooter:
BUT get all your little shorts in a knot when someone lays a sarcastic remark on you. Perhaps too close to the truth ? Sarcastic remark*** AND THE HORSE YOU RODE IN ON

The boring ranters should STFU and get back to whatever they do in their meaningless lives.

AND YOUR PACK MULE roger

[quote]quote:
Originally posted by hammer2506:
a bunch of Kablowers and bowhunters say it is impossible to take deer with the 223.


You are an exaggerator sir, in many ways. No one that I know of said it's impossible to take deer with a 223.

Secondly, it's impossible for a seven year old to manage any center fire well, even a 223. Again you exaggerate. IMO, seven is way too young to be hunting. If a kid can't handle a 243, they are not ready. I never did understand why someone would take such young children out to snipe deer. You are exaggerating in all aspects re your post, not the least of which is the usefulness of the 223 for deer.

KB[/quote

Now I am called an exaggerator by the kablower, he just can't face the fact that a 223 60gr Nosler Partition is just effective when it is placed in the kill zone as 180gr 30cal round. I have shot deer at 25yds through the lungs and heart with a 7mm Rem Mag pushing a 150gr btsp at 3300fps and had to track them over 200yds. This deer fell in its tracks, I repeat fell in its tracks, how is that not effective. I think as long as a kid is trained well and has full knowledge of how the gun operates they can effectively take deer. Proof is in the picture. I have had her shooting(with me by her side) for about 6months practicing about 20 rounds a weekend. There is not any noticeable recoil on the 223, maybe that is why she does so well with it

quote:

Originally posted by 45-70 shooter:
Funny how you tough guys can hand it out to an ethical hunter who is bringing along the next generation of hunters BUT get all your little shorts in a knot when someone lays a sarcastic remark on you. Perhaps too close to the truth ?

I have nothing against the OP. In fact, I think it's a nice post. I don't care what people hunt with. I just think you are absolutely classless to post the comment you did.

quote:

Originally posted by hammer2506:
quote:

You are an exaggerator sir, in many ways. No one that I know of said it's impossible to take deer with a 223.

KB[/quote

Now I am called an exaggerator by the kablower, he just can't face the fact that a 223 60gr Nosler Partition is just effective when it is placed in the kill zone as 180gr 30cal round.

I think as long as a kid is trained well and has full knowledge of how the gun operates they can effectively take deer. Proof is in the picture.

I still think you are an exaggerator by nature, as with many who use the 223 for deer.

I think the comparison with the 180gr 30 cal is an exaggeration.

I think your implication that the kid is well trained and with full knowledge is an exaggeration. She's only a baby.

I think that you don't even know what is and what aint an exaggeration.

The proof, dear sir, is not in the picture. That only shows a dead deer and a little girl. The details are left for us to believe your exaggerations or to believe common sense.

I'm not saying that either the 223 or the baby girl are not capable of taking a deer. I'm saying that neither are well suited for the task, and both are capable of lucking out.

I don't say this to offend, but to just speak plainly and express my opinion on the matter. I think there is no seven year old in the world who is ready to "hunt" deer, and marginally ready to snipe deer from a steady rest in a stand. I think using a 223 because of the light recoil so a baby can snipe deer is just not right.

As to the use of the partition -- good choice. If I used a 223 I would probably use a Barnes.

KB

Congrats to the young hunter. We used to cull does with the 223, just because it was cheap and effective if you are mindful of bullet placement. Would I use one on a paid buck hunt? Nope. Would I take it behind the house and shoot some sausage meat? You bet.

Hammer--You should let Kablowhard train your daughter. Then she'd know how to flock shoot deer with an inaccurate gun. She'd not know it was inaccurate until someone else tells her--certainly wouldn't be Kabaloney as he isn't able to tell, someone has to tell him..

quote:

Congrats to the young hunter. We used to cull does with the 223, just because it was cheap and effective if you are mindful of bullet placement. Would I use one on a paid buck hunt? Nope. Would I take it behind the house and shoot some sausage meat? You bet.

I have heard/read the above statement from many individuals over the years. I am not a fan of the .222-.223 cartridges for deer hunting, nor am I real keen on bullet weights of less than 100 grains for deer. That does not change the fact that thousands of deer are killed annually all over America with .222-.223 caliber rifles and bullets weighing less than 100 grains.

This perhaps is the ultimate issue, on every forum I have ever been on.

Until or unless, state Game & Fish departments establish laws governing the size of the caliber/grain weight of the bullet/minimum energy @ 100 yards, permissible for hunting deer, people will continue to use stuff, that while able to kill deer, are what many folks consider as minimal/marginal at best.

Questioning peoples parenting skills or intelligence or abilities/experience, really solves nothing.

Instead of being thankful that we, hunters as a group, can pick and choose what we want to hunt with in this great country and decide for ourselves what works or works best for us as individuals, no, we want to belittle/insult/accuse and slander others that do not just exactly share our own thoughts/beliefs/concepts, on issues such as this one.

While I personally do not think the .222-.223 cartridges should be legal for deer hunting, I would rather see parents get their children/grand children involved in hunting since those people are the future of our sport, than to lose those future hunters because of some peoples personal beliefs.

If a person feels so strongly against the use of .222-.223 chambered firearms for deer hunting, then they need to petition their states game department to set up legal minimum caliber/bullet grain weight/100 yard energy level for hunting deer in their state.

Well I see the 223 boosters did not bother to take up the real world challenge of "hunting" with a .223.
Anyone can "kill" a deer with a .223 but is it really hunting to snipe one at 25 or 30 yards?
Is that what you are telling kids is hunting?

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
Well I see the 223 boosters did not bother to take up the real world challenge of "hunting" with a .223.
Anyone can "kill" a deer with a .223 but is it really hunting to snipe one at 25 or 30 yards?
Is that what you are telling kids is hunting?

SR,
While I am not touting the 223 is the end all be all of deer rifles, I do believe it is a capable round with the right loads. I have killed several deer with the 223 and stardard cup & core soft points. Two does and one buck, all DRT.

With regards to your "real world challenge", I doubt I would take any of those shots with a 300mag, let alone a 223. With regards to how far they would run, you can't answer that and neither can anyone else. Every deer is different. If the shot is on the mark, they would run no further than if shot with a 300, if they run at all. No deer that walks is any match for a 223 bullet thru the vitals.

adamhunter, the above is not directed at you or anyone else in particular, just the topic. No one is going to ever change their mind no matter which way they lean.