quote:

Originally posted by mdstewart:
This entire thread makes it clear why we need governmental interference in determining the calibers needed for big game hunting in America. Many states currently have as a part of the hunting regulations caliber restrictions for deer, and as proven here, it should be so in every state. What can be done has little to do with what should be done. Decent ethics supported by statisical data support such regulation. We cannot rely upon every hunter's shooting capabilities and shot selection to determine caliber selection. Eliminating unnecessary wounding of game is both in the best interest of the hunting community, the protection of our hunting rights, and the game itself. When such regulations are in place, and game is lost or wounded, at least we can see that the regulations support an effort to make sure every hunter is utilizing the necessary potency to assure a one shot kill, even in the absence of perfect conditions.

Caliber selection, in the absence of regulations, is a moral dilemma. One displays their moral character when faced with these decisions. One does not prove their shooting prowess or superior abiilites when intentionally selecting less than appropriate choices. Success does not lend to justification.

Penis extentions cannot be accomplished by seeing who can take the biggest game with the smallest caliber. That's called the Napoleanic Syndrome.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

This entire thread makes it clear why we need governmental interference in determining the calibers needed for big game hunting in America.

quote:

Originally posted by mdstewart:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

This entire thread makes it clear why we need governmental interference in determining the calibers needed for big game hunting in America.

Vapodog,


I was hoping I would get this from you. I think you see the point in all of this better than anyone. I've been following your posts and I know where you stand. Let's wait and see what other responses we get from this. It should be fun. I had alot of fun writing that one.

quote:

Truth is that "government intervention" is in our hunting sport, and we should be very very thankful for it.

quote:

Originally posted by mdstewart:


Vapodog,


I was hoping I would get this from you. I think you see the point in all of this better than anyone. I've been following your posts and I know where you stand. Let's wait and see what other responses we get from this. It should be fun. I had alot of fun writing that one.

quote:

Should I teach my grandson something I learned in life - how to wound a deer properly with a 223? Or maybe when the young nimrod actually wounds one, inevitably: "It's ok lad, it happens to the best of us, learn from it." Not mentioning of course that the learn from it might mean shoot an adequate cartridge, something grandpa failed to grasp.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
I've also said that in all my years of hunting that I've personally seen no one hunting with a totally inappropriate caliber....or in other words....when it comes to this particular issue of caliber....if it's not broke don't fix it!

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:

quote:

Should I teach my grandson something I learned in life - how to wound a deer properly with a 223? Or maybe when the young nimrod actually wounds one, inevitably: "It's ok lad, it happens to the best of us, learn from it." Not mentioning of course that the learn from it might mean shoot an adequate cartridge, something grandpa failed to grasp.

You cant stop there, if your moral compass is so high and mighty, you need to add...
No shooting at running animals
No shooting at the ass end of animals
No shooting beyond 100 yds
ect ect
Or do you think that these things never cause wounded animals and only shooting a .223 could do that??

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
ScottfromDallas--I started this thread, so I'll answer. Personally I do use my .243. Have for years. Used my 30-06 before that. My nephew that shot the deer in this thread is not a youngster and is a fair sized guy that does shoot larger cals with no problem. He likes this rifle. He bought it for his then 11 year old son a couple years ago and was impressed with the results. He could of just as well used my .243 or brought his own .243 or 30-06 or several others. Yes he was showing off and seeking attention---I was his audience and was duly impressed. My grandson was not with us that day, but was on the ranch--I'm sure he is still in awe of such a feat. The real question is why not use one--100% results--I know been lucky EVERYTIME for years. I already mentioned that my grandson is VERY good deer hunter. I think a big part of this is that when he was younger, I avoided exposing him to too much recoil. A person that can shoot a .223 will have better results than a person shooting more than they can handle.

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Originally posted by Kabluewy:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
I've also said that in all my years of hunting that I've personally seen no one hunting with a totally inappropriate caliber....or in other words....when it comes to this particular issue of caliber....if it's not broke don't fix it!

I have seen it. 22 hornet, wounded nice buck near the farm. Dumb ass hunter, saw nothing wrong with any of it. Legal in the state.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by mdstewart:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

This entire thread makes it clear why we need governmental interference in determining the calibers needed for big game hunting in America.

Vapodog,


I was hoping I would get this from you. I think you see the point in all of this better than anyone. I've been following your posts and I know where you stand. Let's wait and see what other responses we get from this. It should be fun. I had alot of fun writing that one.

For anyone wanting government intervention in our hunting sport....well....not good.

I read and reread your post looking for a bit of jesting....I couldn't believe what I was reading.....and in the net result I had to believe it for exactly what was said.....are you now saying this is all in jest....jerking ones chain so to speak.....my apologies if this is the case.

quote:

Originally posted by mdstewart:


Hunter's should make legitimate decisions on caliber selections before the gov't does it for them. That's the purpose of my post. And the guys who start these threads, like, "another deer taken with a .223", is not helping the hunting rights of any of us.

---Anyone who purposefully goes and selects a .223 as a deer cartridge under any circumstances (other than that's the only gun they have and they are hungry) are foolish and doing a disservice to all other hunters.

The real question, given all the negative repercussions, why would anyone ever choose to do so?

Penis extension.

quote:

Originally posted by mdstewart:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by mdstewart:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

This entire thread makes it clear why we need governmental interference in determining the calibers needed for big game hunting in America.

Vapodog,


I was hoping I would get this from you. I think you see the point in all of this better than anyone. I've been following your posts and I know where you stand. Let's wait and see what other responses we get from this. It should be fun. I had alot of fun writing that one.

For anyone wanting government intervention in our hunting sport....well....not good.

I read and reread your post looking for a bit of jesting....I couldn't believe what I was reading.....and in the net result I had to believe it for exactly what was said.....are you now saying this is all in jest....jerking ones chain so to speak.....my apologies if this is the case.

You know what really pisses me off? When I go to Illinois hunting, I can't shoot deer with my .300H&H, I have to use a muzzleloader or bow. Why is that? It it absolute and total nonsense. In Georgia, where I hunt primarily for deer, I can use slugs in my drillings on WMA's, but not buckshot. Why is that? I don't understand the Gov'ts influence in these arenas?

TC1, I know you think I'm the bad guy, but you fail to see my message. I've read Vapodogs posts, and he doesn't think the .223 is adequate for deer either. However, he doesn't think it should be mandated by law. Neither do I. It should be a non issue. Hunter's should make legitimate decisions on caliber selections before the gov't does it for them. That's the purpose of my post. And the guys who start these threads, like, "another deer taken with a .223", is not helping the hunting rights of any of us.---Anyone who purposefully goes and selects a .223 as a deer cartridge under any circumstances (other than that's the only gun they have and they are hungry) are foolish and doing a disservice to all other hunters.

Vapodog has never once supported the use of the .223 for deer in any of his posts. He is consistent on this. He is also consistent on saying it's anyone's right to use a .223 if they choose.

The real question, given all the negative repercussions, why would anyone ever choose to do so?

Penis extension.

quote:

Originally posted by mdstewart:

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:

quote:

Originally posted by mdstewart:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by mdstewart:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

This entire thread makes it clear why we need governmental interference in determining the calibers needed for big game hunting in America.

Vapodog,


I was hoping I would get this from you. I think you see the point in all of this better than anyone. I've been following your posts and I know where you stand. Let's wait and see what other responses we get from this. It should be fun. I had alot of fun writing that one.

For anyone wanting government intervention in our hunting sport....well....not good.

I read and reread your post looking for a bit of jesting....I couldn't believe what I was reading.....and in the net result I had to believe it for exactly what was said.....are you now saying this is all in jest....jerking ones chain so to speak.....my apologies if this is the case.

You know what really pisses me off? When I go to Illinois hunting, I can't shoot deer with my .300H&H, I have to use a muzzleloader or bow. Why is that? It it absolute and total nonsense. In Georgia, where I hunt primarily for deer, I can use slugs in my drillings on WMA's, but not buckshot. Why is that? I don't understand the Gov'ts influence in these arenas?

TC1, I know you think I'm the bad guy, but you fail to see my message. I've read Vapodogs posts, and he doesn't think the .223 is adequate for deer either. However, he doesn't think it should be mandated by law. Neither do I. It should be a non issue. Hunter's should make legitimate decisions on caliber selections before the gov't does it for them. That's the purpose of my post. And the guys who start these threads, like, "another deer taken with a .223", is not helping the hunting rights of any of us.---Anyone who purposefully goes and selects a .223 as a deer cartridge under any circumstances (other than that's the only gun they have and they are hungry) are foolish and doing a disservice to all other hunters.

Vapodog has never once supported the use of the .223 for deer in any of his posts. He is consistent on this. He is also consistent on saying it's anyone's right to use a .223 if they choose.

The real question, given all the negative repercussions, why would anyone ever choose to do so?

Penis extension.

How old are you anyway?

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:
I was just curious. You act like a child, that's all.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
I still wish someone would show me the stats that show a 223 wounds more deer then ,shots on running deer, ranges beyond folks ability, shooting them in the ass ect.
PO Ackley advocated small bores, Finn Aagard decided to try a .223 and found it to do an adequate job.
Again, it's not a first choice for me, but when a person shows they shoot it well, and certainly better then something bigger, I know it will do the job when I'm setting up the shot.

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Originally posted by tiggertate:
This guy has to be a troll.

quote:

I still wish someone would show me the stats that show a 223 wounds more deer then ,shots on running deer, ranges beyond folks ability, shooting them in the ass ect.

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Originally posted by TC1:
one guy got bent cuz he didn't like the title

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Originally posted by TEANCUM:

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Originally posted by TC1:

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
I still wish someone would show me the stats that show a 223 wounds more deer then ,shots on running deer, ranges beyond folks ability, shooting them in the ass ect.
PO Ackley advocated small bores, Finn Aagard decided to try a .223 and found it to do an adequate job.
Again, it's not a first choice for me, but when a person shows they shoot it well, and certainly better then something bigger, I know it will do the job when I'm setting up the shot.

Don't forget John Barsness. He's used and approves of the cartridge too.

TC1 and theback40:

Don't you guys know that referring to any credible source, such as the ones mentioned above, will cause heart palpitations in some of our fine brothers on this thread???? Shame on you lads, asking them to read some data that might not agree with their closely held and highly regarded OPINIONS.

My solution and "best practice": Screw'em

quote:

Originally posted by SDhunter:
Wow, I go out and help a 14 yo girl get her first elk today and all heck breaks loose.

mdstewart,
I respectfully disagree with you.

How many deer have you killed with a .223?
More important, how many deer have you lost because you were using a 223?

It has been proven time and time again that the cartridge will do the job. The weak link is the person squeezing the trigger, and putting the bullet in the proper place.

RC,
I posted on the deer lost thread.
Conclusion:
1. Dead deer, just not found.
2. Inadequate shot placement.
3. Inadequate bullet for above shot placement.

This is where I should add that I have lost exactly two deer in the last 30 years of deer hunting with firearms. First was with a 243, second was a 270 Win. So should I jump on the anti 243 and 270 bandwagon?

In both cases the cartridge had absolutely nothing to do with losing those deer. Plain and simple, I did not put the bullet in the right spot.

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Originally posted by Kabluewy:

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:
one guy got bent cuz he didn't like the title

Let's start calling this annual event the Winter Games, and see if that offends anyone. hee,hee,hee

I really liked the one last year about who had the most experience in not using a 223 for deer - or something like that.

KB