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What a super trip and great trophies! Congrats all around...

Nice report Brett!! You forgot the part about my good luck toothbrush.

Wow! What a great trip. Congratulations!

Looks like you had a heck of a good time!

Abie is always a hoot!

Congratulations on a great hunt!

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wrldhunter,

Congratulations on a very successful safari in one of my favorite places on the planet. Nice job on picking up all the cream the Luangwa has to offer. I'm doing the same safari you guys did in Sept '12 with Johnny. I'm really looking forward to it. I've hunted on the Lungwa twice before but I'm anticipating this being the best of the three.

BTW the grysbok is a toad.

Mark

Well done and you have many first class trophies there. Leopard, the Cookson's and Puku are exceptional.

Does not get much better.

Congratulations on a great safari. Zambia is tough to beat. I love that Cookson's!

Congratulations on an amazing hunt. thanks for sharing!

WrldHunter,
Congratulations on a wonderfully  successful safari. 
Your a lucky man to be able to share this with your dad. 

I also hunted with Abie in 2009 out of the Nyaminga camp. Muchinga Adventures and Abie provided memories that I will treasure the rest of my days. 

Some excellent trophies, esp. that leopard. A real Toad!

Thank you for sharing an exceptional safari with us. You managed some great trophies and I hope we will read more from you in the future. Well done!

Congrats on such a successful trip. Amazing, lion, leopard and buff on the same trip as well as everything else. I am jealous. I am headed to So. Africa later this year for my first trip to Africa and I am very excited. It is just plains game but I am jealous of buff, hippo, leopard and lion. I doubt I will ever hunt a lion so congrats to you for adding that onto everything else. Great post. Would like to see the post again if you can resize the photos.

Congratulations on a very successful trip. Thank you for sharing it with us. You should enjoy the memories of this hunt for decades.

What happened to this post? Was it booked through Blair?

It was killed by the "Only kill the the Lions with the green ear tag #8 on them" Mob.

WrldHunter - you showed class when classless was all around you.
Congradulations on your successful hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by Alaska Hunter:
WrldHunter - you showed class when classless was all around you.
Congradulations on your successful hunt.

+1

WTF is going on here? I'm sorry I cannot read between the lines. Please state in plain english why this was removed people?

Thanks!

wrldhunter, FWIW, life's lessons often leave bruises and scars on the student. You have to get back up off the ground and resume the fight, or commence the peacemaking. Don't ever run away.

I don't mean to preach. I'm merely suggesting that this is a learning opportunity. I and many others have been where you are now, learned from it, vowed never to go there again, and moved on.

Congratulations on the many excellent animals you successfully hunted on your safari.

I for one do not begrudge wrldhunter one bit for packing it in. Someone has a dream, they live their dream and come to the forum to share that dream realized with fellow hunters. Then they find that a tribunal of middle aged, overweight men sitting in front of computer monitors that have a different view of what the dream should have been sit in judgment of them and attempt to fan the fires of controversy to try and consume the dream. Unfortunately it happens all too frequently on this site. One can only wonder how many decent people with contributions to make on the forum have simply said life is too short to put up with that kind of horse hockey.

I have discovered my own theory of relativity on AR. The substance of the message is usually inversely proportional to the number of posts by the writer (myself included). While we all purport to be grown ups, sometimes we make junior high students look mature with the way we act.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I for one do not begrudge wrldhunter one bit for packing it in. Someone has a dream, they live their dream and come to the forum to share that dream realized with fellow hunters. Then they find that a tribunal of middle aged, overweight men sitting in front of computer monitors that have a different view of what the dream should have been sit in judgment of them and attempt to fan the fires of controversy to try and consume the dream. Unfortunately it happens all too frequently on this site. One can only wonder how many decent people with contributions to make on the forum have simply said life is too short to put up with that kind of horse hockey.

I have discovered my own theory of relativity on AR. The substance of the message is usually inversely proportional to the number of posts by the writer (myself included). While we all purport to be grown ups, sometimes we make junior high students look mature with the way we act.

Mike,
As far as wrldhntr deleting his post, your statement is 150% accurate. Well Said.

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I for one do not begrudge wrldhunter one bit for packing it in. Someone has a dream, they live their dream and come to the forum to share that dream realized with fellow hunters. Then they find that a tribunal of middle aged, overweight men sitting in front of computer monitors that have a different view of what the dream should have been sit in judgment of them and attempt to fan the fires of controversy to try and consume the dream. Unfortunately it happens all too frequently on this site. One can only wonder how many decent people with contributions to make on the forum have simply said life is too short to put up with that kind of horse hockey.

I have discovered my own theory of relativity on AR. The substance of the message is usually inversely proportional to the number of posts by the writer (myself included). While we all purport to be grown ups, sometimes we make junior high students look mature with the way we act.

Well said, Mike. Thanks.

quote:

Then they find that a tribunal of middle aged, overweight men sitting in front of computer monitors that have a different view of what the dream should have been sit in judgment of them and attempt to fan the fires of controversy to try and consume the dream

Well Aaron I am middle aged I guess but you must have aged over night! Did you gain weight??? I just asked my wife and she said my butt didn't look big. But you better have your girlfriend render an opinion.

Guys - I'm sorry wrldhunter felt the need to remove his post, I really am. The rest of his trophies were very nice, and the story was pretty good too! I love sharing other hunter's experiences. Heck, its one of the biggest reasons I love being a hunting guide, I get to share in the experience.

Frankly though, I'm more sorry to see how many AR members are more concerned about someone's AR posting "experience", than the monstrous problems facing the African Lion, and the African Wildlife as a whole!

The African Lion currently faces the greatest threat we have ever seen. From loss of habitat, to human encroachment, to the disastrous problems that would be created if lion hunting were to be eliminated. And then, what's next?? Leopard, maybe elephant, you tell me? I didn't come down on someone for shooting some soft-bossed buffalo, of which there's a million more that look just like em. Or for shooting a female leopard, which we can all see how that has happened. Or slam some hunter for choosing a different hunting method than what I think is acceptable (i.e., dogs vs baiting). Frankly, I will support/understand all of that, for anyone here.

What I did was, strongly asserted my concerns, when one very capable and obviously experienced PH. Made a decision or lack there of, to allow his client to shoot an OBVIOUSLY young lion. Knowing full well the huge pressure facing lion hunting/conservation at the moment, and caring little about the ramifications of his actions! Maybe its just me, maybe I'm just not very "sensitive"! But the message, and the potential fallout from continued actions like this, seem to be a WHOLE LOT BIGGER THAN ANY ONE INDIVIDUAL, JMO. As a hunter, I also made a pledge to be a conservationist. Years, experience and knowledge have changed that exact philosophy, but the under-lying fundamental idea has not. If I step on a few toes in the name of rightful, responsible and ethical hunting practices, as it pertains to the lion, then I guess I will have to accept the consequences.

Once again, my apologies to wrldhunter.

quote:

Frankly though, I'm more sorry to see how many AR members are more concerned about someone's AR posting "experience", than the monstrous problems facing the African Lion, and the African Wildlife as a whole!

I know this will draw more attack...but...in my feeble, hard-hearted, uneducated, inexperienced, and un-caring (tongue-in-cheek) mind...I see the above as the biggest travesty of all.

I am not sure how the above contributors made the decision that "many AR members* are more concerned about someone's AR posting "experience", than the monstrous problems facing the African Lion, and the African Wildlife as a whole!". Have they* somehow indicated their lack of appropriate attitude?? I haven't noticed that.
They* have merely chosen to react to pomposity and the apparent need of a few AR members to overloudly flatulate the gasses of their self-inflated egos. Sadly, that happens sometime in this site, followed by the latters' equally witless attempts to express dismay that their meanings have been misunderstood, and should have been considered in the light of "the bigger picture". Phooey!

Just in the last few days I have discovered a corollary to my theory of posting relativity on AR. The postulate is, the number of posts made by a single individual within a 48 hour period logarithmically decreases in content value with each successive post.

Conifer and Mike,

Aaron chose to point out a bad decision. One which in our works with the scientific community that we (Aaron & I) get beat over the head with on a daily basis. That decision being the one to shoot a very young male lion. That decision was made by 2 people: 1) a very experienced PH who knew exactly what he was shooting and 2) a hunter of which I know nothing about.

If the shooting of those type of lions does not stop...lion hunting will...simple as that.

If our willingness to point out this bad decision makes us bad fellows in y'all's eyes...I hope we will survive as I stand by Aaron's decision...mathematically correct or not and that ain't no phooey!

Why not just stop killing Lions alltogether? Then there would be no problem with all of the age stuff, too young, too old, too MGM like, maybe canned, maybe not?

I know, I know the argument would be stop hunting, and $$ would not be available for conservation. Maybe, maybe not? Monies can/could be generated in lots of different ways to fund Lion conservation. Maybe Lions are past the point of open hunting seasons in most places? Maybe not? Too many variables here to make a sound plan seems to me. Hunting is a sound Conservation tool for sure, but may not always be the saving grace in all situations? Could this be one? Maybe, maybe not.

As hunters we all come to be a little selfish and let our desire to hunt overshadow other possibilities beyond ourselves at times.

Just some food for thought.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Conifer and Mike,

Aaron chose to point out a bad decision. One which in our works with the scientific community that we (Aaron & I) get beat over the head with on a daily basis. That decision being the one to shoot a very young male lion. That decision was made by 2 people: 1) a very experienced PH who knew exactly what he was shooting and 2) a hunter of which I know nothing about.

If the shooting of those type of lions does not stop...lion hunting will...simple as that.

If our willingness to point out this bad decision makes us bad fellows in y'all's eyes...I hope we will survive as I stand by Aaron's decision...mathematically correct or not and that ain't no phooey!

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
Why not just stop killing Lions alltogether? Then there would be no problem with all of the age stuff, too young, too old, too MGM like, maybe canned, maybe not?

I know, I know the argument would be stop hunting, and $$ would not be available for conservation. Maybe, maybe not? Monies can/could be generated in lots of different ways to fund Lion conservation. Maybe Lions are past the point of open hunting seasons in most places? Maybe not? Too many variables here to make a sound plan seems to me. Hunting is a sound Conservation tool for sure, but may not always be the saving grace in all situations? Could this be one? Maybe, maybe not.

As hunters we all come to be a little selfish and let our desire to hunt overshadow other possibilities beyond ourselves at times.

Just some food for thought.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

Larry - can you name one single successful conservation of a threatened land mammal... where hunting wasnt at least PART of the solution?? I sure cannot ...

Matt - You are right with the PART thought. Just pointing out some other possibilities to go along with it. Hunting and hunters are the DEPENDABLE resources for sure in most instances but not neccesarily the total solution.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

Mate in a lot of cases it is the ONLY thing saving certain species!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

Frankly though, I'm more sorry to see how many AR members are more concerned about someone's AR posting "experience", than the monstrous problems facing the African Lion, and the African Wildlife as a whole!

The African Lion currently faces the greatest threat we have ever seen. From loss of habitat, to human encroachment, to the disastrous problems that would be created if lion hunting were to be eliminated...

...As a hunter, I also made a pledge to be a conservationist. Years, experience and knowledge have changed that exact philosophy, but the under-lying fundamental idea has not. If I step on a few toes in the name of rightful, responsible and ethical hunting practices, as it pertains to the lion, then I guess I will have to accept the consequences.

Lane,Aaron etal,

While My chances of hunting Lion seem virtually nil, and my desire to do so only limited,I am very much interested in this subject from a sustainability/conservation standpoint.

I am wondering if this research/conservation work that you all are doing also will include some sort of reliable census information.

In the recent years I have seen the entire Lion population in Africa stated as 5,000-6,000, and at the same time someone else states 28,000. Now here, recently, I seem to recall a much higher count [35,000, or 56,000 or some such, I can't find that number now].

But, whichever of these numbers, without a fairly confident inventory, how can you ever determine how many are surplus and huntable. Seemingly, even at the 56,000 number, surely the number of older adult non breeding males is well under 10,000, and likley under 5,000? In all of Africa? [At the 5,000-6000 total count that would make only a couple of hundred huntable males?]

Whatever the quota determination and criteria, how can you do anything with out an accurate count? At what number must we question the survivability of a species? Any species.

I am not looking for specific answers, here, now, but if your work will include, or support some such census please count me in, let me know how and where to contribute! It would appear that we all have an interest in promoting and supporting this work!

Les

quote:

Originally posted by LHowell:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

Frankly though, I'm more sorry to see how many AR members are more concerned about someone's AR posting "experience", than the monstrous problems facing the African Lion, and the African Wildlife as a whole!

The African Lion currently faces the greatest threat we have ever seen. From loss of habitat, to human encroachment, to the disastrous problems that would be created if lion hunting were to be eliminated...

...As a hunter, I also made a pledge to be a conservationist. Years, experience and knowledge have changed that exact philosophy, but the under-lying fundamental idea has not. If I step on a few toes in the name of rightful, responsible and ethical hunting practices, as it pertains to the lion, then I guess I will have to accept the consequences.

Lane,Aaron etal,

While My chances of hunting Lion seem virtually nil, and my desire to do so only limited,I am very much interested in this subject from a sustainability/conservation standpoint.

I am wondering if this research/conservation work that you all are doing also will include some sort of reliable census information.

In the recent years I have seen the entire Lion population in Africa stated as 5,000-6,000, and at the same time someone else states 28,000. Now here, recently, I seem to recall a much higher count [35,000, or 56,000 or some such, I can't find that number now].

But, whichever of these numbers, without a fairly confident inventory, how can you ever determine how many are surplus and huntable. Seemingly, even at the 56,000 number, surely the number of older adult non breeding males is well under 10,000, and likley under 5,000? In all of Africa? [At the 5,000-6000 total count that would make only a couple of hundred huntable males?]

Whatever the quota determination and criteria, how can you do anything with out an accurate count? At what number must we question the survivability of a species? Any species.

I am not looking for specific answers, here, now, but if your work will include, or support some such census please count me in, let me know how and where to contribute! It would appear that we all have an interest in promoting and supporting this work!

Les

Sir...counting lions is a very difficult task. If we immediately limit hunting those who's loss will NOT impact numbers...we can begin to have an effect. Dr. Craig Packer has a model that shows that in Tanzania (at least in the Serengeti) that taking of 6 and > year old males will not have an impact...hence the 6 year old rule.

The Niassa Carnivore Project has validated that model in Mosambique (at least in the Niassa reserve).

Maybe...through collection of DNA of all hunted lions we will eventually be able to do some population genetics allowing us to quantitate the lion numbers with-out counting. See http://forums.accuratereloadin...1411043/m/1111057351 .

We are in the process of setting up entities for donations for the LCTF. GerryB & Blanco County are helping with that.

One should count Lion in the same manner that one counts Elephant. That is, one counts their legs and then divides the sum by 4.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I for one do not begrudge wrldhunter one bit for packing it in. Someone has a dream, they live their dream and come to the forum to share that dream realized with fellow hunters. Then they find that a tribunal of middle aged, overweight men sitting in front of computer monitors that have a different view of what the dream should have been sit in judgment of them and attempt to fan the fires of controversy to try and consume the dream. Unfortunately it happens all too frequently on this site. One can only wonder how many decent people with contributions to make on the forum have simply said life is too short to put up with that kind of horse hockey.

I have discovered my own theory of relativity on AR. The substance of the message is usually inversely proportional to the number of posts by the writer (myself included). While we all purport to be grown ups, sometimes we make junior high students look mature with the way we act.

The exact reason why in my half dozen African DG hunts you have never and will never see one of my hunt reports posted on AR.

My hunts are simply to important to me to have a bunch of spit bubble drooling buffoons critiquing them on this sight.