Trophyman,
I have a buddy who got his seat reupholstered for damn near nothing down south of the border here too, but you know what he got? a seat full of horseshit. Thats the level of work you'll get over there, shit that will last 10 years with crossed eyes and forms made from melted plastic bags. be sure to spray them down with insecticide regular.

Trax,
Your last post here makes you sound like you have no idea of what is going on. You ask Linda if she is one of those bubble headed people who have never traveled. What does that have anything to do with her trip? So one can't take a trip and have reasonable expectations of getting what one paid for unless they are a frequent world traveler? She paid Wendell to help prepare them for the trip. Seems they may not have been prepared very well. NOW it seems Wendell is doing everything he can to get their trophies for them.

I have been to Central America 8 times, fishing not hunting. I know well that there is no place like the USA for most citizens of the USA. However, that is not much of an issue for most people because they can put up with a lot of differences for the short time most people travel. I booked two of my C.A. trips with agents who emphasized the positives, but didn't prepare me well for some of the negatives. I made all my own arrangements from that point on and had much better trips and for less money.

I am happy that Linda posted her issue. That may wake up some outfitters/agents. I want to make my first trip to Africa soon and want to avoid (as much as possible) similar issues that Linda and others have encountered. Wendell may be a great guy, but he may also have made some mistakes. It seems that this forum is a great motivator for some to do the right thing. That is another reason why it is a valuable resource.

I can appreciate your frustration.

Actually Linda, count yourself lucky that Wendell is communicating with you at all.

It's been 4 years since my one and only Namibia PG hunt and I haven't received my trophies either. Not a one email or phone call from the shipping company or the outfitter. I prepaid the dip & pack, warthog taxidermy, and shipping charges. Then Wesco Shipping says I need to come up with 2 grand just to clear customs, when they originally quoted $315. I'm still hopeful they'll show up some day. But I'm not holding my breath.

Booking agents painted me a rosy picture, too. Don't expect much after they get your $$$. You have found out the hard way that hunting Africa is a gamble. I see nothing wrong with you publicizing your plight on this forum.

quote:

Originally posted by 338zmag:
Trax,
Your last post here makes you sound like you have no idea of what is going on. You ask Linda if she is one of those bubble headed people who have never traveled. What does that have anything to do with her trip? So one can't take a trip and have reasonable expectations of getting what one paid for unless they are a frequent world traveler? She paid Wendell to help prepare them for the trip. Seems they may not have been prepared very well. NOW it seems Wendell is doing everything he can to get their trophies for them.

I have been to Central America 8 times, fishing not hunting. I know well that there is no place like the USA for most citizens of the USA. However, that is not much of an issue for most people because they can put up with a lot of differences for the short time most people travel. I booked two of my C.A. trips with agents who emphasized the positives, but didn't prepare me well for some of the negatives. I made all my own arrangements from that point on and had much better trips and for less money.

I am happy that Linda posted her issue. That may wake up some outfitters/agents. I want to make my first trip to Africa soon and want to avoid (as much as possible) similar issues that Linda and others have encountered. Wendell may be a great guy, but he may also have made some mistakes. It seems that this forum is a great motivator for some to do the right thing. That is another reason why it is a valuable resource.

Yes, I did ask her if she is one of those bubble headed folk, cause Ive met my fair share of them.
No, one does not have to be a frequent world traveller to be reasonably entitled to what she payed for....however it dont really matter if its your 1st trip or 50th trip, your wifes,sons or grandfathers trophy, things can go wrong or be unusually delayed, fate is impartial, it does not make special exemptions for first,last or only timers.
From her first post she seems to indicate she knows exactly how easy things work in Africa, all it takes is phone call to get it all sorted. If according to her such things are so simple in the real world, then I expect she can ring her state senator on Monday and have the imperfect corrupt prison system she has been working in for 19yrs, all clean by Xmas....be sure to post with the good news.
But I doubt she would rock her own boat to her own detriment, thats the real world... likewise Wendell stated be patient and careful what you say, it could jeopardize things,good honest inside advice, but I guess she knows better. People who turn a blind eye to some things then whinge&whine about other things do live in a hypocritical bubble...however, if she is infact truelly oblivious to the problems of a system she has worked in for 19yrs, then whats the likelyhood of her having any idea of what really happens in Zim?
Im also happy Linda posted, but it would show more maturity if she had asked rather than acccused, then she plays the,"cause Im a female"card,.....somewhat like the females who try to bs&charm their way out of a speeding fine,but when it fails, engauge the breakdown and cry technique.
same as you, 338zmag, Im glad this forum is here, it allows all of us to express our view without the obligation of having to agree or disagree, but maybe cause each of us to be more conscious of our individual levels of introspection & extrospection.

Just got my trophies back from my '07 trip -- incredably fast. Haven't heard anything about this year's trophies. Kind of like it when they're delayed; spreads out the costs.

quote:

Originally posted by chipolopolo:
Trophyman,
I have a buddy who got his seat reupholstered for damn near nothing down south of the border here too, but you know what he got? a seat full of horseshit. Thats the level of work you'll get over there, shit that will last 10 years with crossed eyes and forms made from melted plastic bags. be sure to spray them down with insecticide regular.

Oh God, here goes the " Let's bash African taxidermist" diatribe again!! Please give this shit a rest. there are good and bad taxidermists everywhere. location has NOTHING to do with skill.

Mr. Dollar,
7 months and 25 days?? I really doubt from tanning to drying to crating to shipping to US customs 7 months 25 days??. He wasnt givin back his own capes. If he was, they tanned the damn things in Bovril. Location has NOTHING to do with it? I thought the whole rub on this thread was TIA. what happened to that? with taxidermy Africa is AOK?

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:
I think the saying is TFA
That's F***ing Africa
When booking a hunt like this, you have to accept the fact that:
It may be cancelled due to political unrest
The whole damned place may burn up
Your airline might lose your luggage or you
I could go on but you get the point. If you got there and back in one piece consider yourself fortunate and while waiting for the trophies to ship (and then waiting another year on taxidermy) is frustrating (infuriating?), stuff happens!

Yeah yeah yeah. But these guys CHARGE LIKE A WOUNDED BULL but then only deliver some of the time erratically.

Not referring to this REICH/ADAMS matter but it is amazing how often the shipment of trophies/taxidermy etc is cocked up. And always at an extremely HIGH PRICE to boot.

First safari - 1994
-> my black coloured zebra skin swapped and replaced with a "brown" one.
-> my eland suffered MAJOR hair slip and I later found out the outfitter was using cheap inferior crap salt

Second safari - 2002 - South Africa
-> taxidermist lost the documents, another un-connected outfitter (Steve Robinson - Shakari) helped me out by getting replacement documents - SAf taxidermist (dip and packing only) did lovely things like drilling holes through horns to attach tags etc

Third safari - 2002 - Zimbabwe
-> warvet invasion of the farm we were hunting on, outfitter offered to repay trophy fees if they were never recovered, eventually were and over two years later got them (however they got tied up as they were sent to be consolidated with the SAf trophies above. )
-> However the Zim taxidermist confused my order for dip and packing with a more complicated order from Austria. After some angst this was cleared up.
-> after warvet invasion of the farm, we managed to get a spot on a HHK concession. HHK has/had an inhouse dip and pack service and the trophies arrived in Aust within a few months, without any notice. Someone phoned me and told me he wanted $X immediately to clear them. Very quick service.

Fourth safari - 2006 - Namibia
-> Plains game trophies delivered to the Windhoek taxidermist. Simple documentation, and dip and pack.
Received HUGE fee invoice including doing work without authorisation - 6 warthog tusks "plated" and fixed to board. They were supposed to ask what was to be done to them. The fee was closer to full shoulder mounts for some of the work too.
Told them at those fees they could keep the trophies. A lower fee was negotiated.
When arrived at my agent/taxidermist - the following even though everything was correct on the manifest:

NOTE SEALED BOXES

Manifest:
hartebeest - horns, skull and cape
gemsbok - 2x horns, skulls and capes
springbok - 2x horns skulls and capes
warthog - 7x tusks, 1 skull, 1 cape, 6x tusks affixed to a board

Reality:
OK - hartebeest - horns, skull and cape
OK - gemsbok - 2x horns, skulls and capes
OK - springbok - 2x horns skulls and capes
NOT OK warthog -
A warthog skull and cape inside, NO TUSKS
4 x warthog tusks affixed to a board.

Now if someone pinched the loose warthog tusks, HOW DID THE 6X TUSKS FIXED TO A BOARD, BECOME 4X TUSKS?


Fifth safari - 2006 - Zimbabwe
-> Cow elepant hunts only

NO TROPHIES! ONLY PHOTOS! YIPPEE!

NOT RIPPED OFF! NO EXCESSIVE CHARGES!

NO INCREDIBLY BAD SERVICE! NO BAD TAXIDERMY!



***

I think it really is a lucky dip dealing with a lot of these gooses in Africa. But they also CHARGE like everyone is a billionaire but seemingly all have the attitude of Baboons.

Apologies to the good guys out there, but it is so understandable how guys doing multiple safaris eventually say FUCK THE TROPHIES.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
Oh God, here goes the " Let's bash African taxidermist" diatribe again!! Please give this shit a rest. there are good and bad taxidermists everywhere. location has NOTHING to do with skill.

Ha ha. They bloody well deserve it. Some seem good. But they hire monkeys at peanut rates, charge like every client is a billionaire, pocket the excess profits and then are "amazed" when every second order is fucked up.

Nitro man,
Well said, It amazes me all this bullshit about the Adams deserve what they got because they dont understand Africa, I think I understand Africa well enough to not let a B.E.G. welfare case mount what I consider to be fine art work that should outlive me. The American Taxidermy scene changes rapidly the chemicals the new technique's and the customization you do when you work with a guy just across town. I've been luckier than you Iv'e not lost a single cape or had a horn drilled. Christ it's like getting your expensive sports car painted down in mexico or some shit.
Cheers

I don't know anyone in this thread and haven't even read it all but....

It's being said that "well, the agent is doing all he can" or "the agent has limited control over these situations". That is rubbish.

Question: If these above situations are generally true, why in Gods name would someone essentially pay a premium to book through an agent rather than bargain a lower price direct with the outfitter or PH.

Moral: BOOK DIRECT and, if possible, take unmounted trophies home in checked baggage! Even with this level of caution, I have a North American taxidermist who, for two years now has been saying "Yup, it's here, I'll finish it up soon" when speaking of a black bear I sent him(skull mount and claws project). I have full knowledge that he has lost the thing but I call him every couple months just to annoy him and remind him that he is incompetent. I will continue to do so until he admits that he lost the trophy somewhere.

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:
I don't know anyone in this thread and haven't even read it all but....

It's being said that "well, the agent is doing all he can" or "the agent has limited control over these situations". That is rubbish.

Question: If these above situations are generally true, why in Gods name would someone essentially pay a premium to book through an agent rather than bargain a lower price direct with the outfitter or PH.

Moral: BOOK DIRECT and, if possible, take unmounted trophies home in checked baggage! Even with this level of caution, I have a North American taxidermist who, for two years now has been saying "Yup, it's here, I'll finish it up soon" when speaking of a black bear I sent him(skull mount and claws project). I have full knowledge that he has lost the thing but I call him every couple months just to annoy him and remind him that he is incompetent. I will continue to do so until he admits that he lost the trophy somewhere.

Now that sounds like a great idea. I'll be back there next August and I think I'll just roll up my green leopard skin, stick it down in the middle of my checked bag and hope for the best. I don't think I'll be able to get my buffalo head and cape in the checked bag so it'll have to be carried on the airline.

I'd ask you all to wish me luck, but I'm feeling so good about the plan I don't think I'll need it!

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

Now that sounds like a great idea. I'll be back there next August and I think I'll just roll up my green leopard skin, stick it down in the middle of my checked bag and hope for the best. I don't think I'll be able to get my buffalo head and cape in the checked bag so it'll have to be carried on the airline.

I'd ask you all to wish me luck, but I'm feeling so good about the plan I don't think I'll need it!

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:
I don't know anyone in this thread and haven't even read it all but....

It's being said that "well, the agent is doing all he can" or "the agent has limited control over these situations". That is rubbish.

Question: If these above situations are generally true, why in Gods name would someone essentially pay a premium to book through an agent rather than bargain a lower price direct with the outfitter or PH.

Moral: BOOK DIRECT and, if possible, take unmounted trophies home in checked baggage! Even with this level of caution, I have a North American taxidermist who, for two years now has been saying "Yup, it's here, I'll finish it up soon" when speaking of a black bear I sent him(skull mount and claws project). I have full knowledge that he has lost the thing but I call him every couple months just to annoy him and remind him that he is incompetent. I will continue to do so until he admits that he lost the trophy somewhere.

Don't you think the Zim game dept, customs and excise, vet inspectors, reserve bank, US customs and excise, fish and wildlife and even the airlines might have something to say about that.

Steve,
I think the guy hasn't been out of the country hunting for a while but in 1999 I shot a brown bear on Kodiak. I put the skull in my carry on and the cape in an ice chest (coolbox for you) and brought the whole damn works home, I did the same with a Quebec caribou in about 2003. Meat, capes, Antlers the whole works. I know things have changed but to what extend who knows.
Cheers,
Chipolopolo

Jesus this amazes me.

What part of Simon Rogers losing the paper work was Wendell supposed to prevent? What part of the WELL PUBLICIZED government related shipping problems was Wendell supposed to prevent?

Perhaps Wendell is omnipotent and I was unaware of it. I'm glad we have all been enlightened now.

How could any reasonable person think it is Wendel's fault?

With clients like some of you guys, I think I would rather go work restocking tampon dispensers in truck stops. Who need bull shit like this over something you have no control over?

Finally to Tendrams, please oh please let us know of your experience bringing raw hides back from Africa. It should be quite entertaining. In the unlikely event that you should get them on the plane, I will bet a hell of a lot of money that you won't make your connecting flight in the US. USF&W as well as the USDA and Customs will have you held up for hours and hours and you won't leave with your trophies. Guaranteed. By the way, when was the last time you tried that stunt?

Larry,
They really sell those things in dispensers? and in truck stops?

Hey Larry! Back off man I think it could work!

Eventually I'm going to try for trophy elephant. In the case that I'm successful, the new plan is to saw the ivory into little pieces and get both tusks in my carry-on. Upon returning home with carry-on ivory, I do understand that some re assembly will be required.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm booking through Wendell with Vaughn Fulton in Namibia and I am not concerned.

quote:

Originally posted by driftwood:
I'm booking through Wendell with Vaughn Fulton in Namibia and I am not concerned.

You'll have a great time hunting in Vaughan's camp. I was just there in Sept. & had a great time, shot a good buffalo & saw something diff. right from the dining tent every morning & evening. He runs a good camp & the animals are there.

So let's see if I have this straight.

The Booking Agent goes to the Outfitter and says, "I have some people who want to go hunting but they are pretty ignorant about where to go. If you give me 15-20% of the gross amount spent I will tell them to go hunt with you and we will all be happy."

The Outfitter thinks about it and says, "Great idea. Only you need to help me talk them into giving me all the money the trip will cost before they ever come. Preferably 30 days in advance. That way if the Shipping agent dawdles, the Government is slow, the taxidermist I recommend is a crook or the dog eats all the paperwork I still have the money."

"Easy," says the Booking Agent. "People might not trust the telephone company with and advanced payment of $25.00 but they will be more than willing to give $20,000 to a couple of strangers like us. Plus, then I can take my commission off the top and you won't have to worry about paying me later...... Not that I don't trust you or anything."

quote:

Originally posted by chipolopolo:
Steve,
I think the guy hasn't been out of the country hunting for a while but in 1999 I shot a brown bear on Kodiak. I put the skull in my carry on and the cape in an ice chest (coolbox for you) and brought the whole damn works home, I did the same with a Quebec caribou in about 2003. Meat, capes, Antlers the whole works. I know things have changed but to what extend who knows.
Cheers,
Chipolopolo

I don't know those areas so don't know the export import requirements, but there's no way you'd get away with doing it out of Africa....... you'd be chucked into chokey before you could utter the word ambassador.......

Kodiak is going from one state to another. No big deal as it is not from one country to another.

My understanding is that there have been substantial changes for coming from other countries.

A caribou would never get the same scrtunity as an elephant.

I would hate to quote those changes as fact as I do not recall all of the detail.

If you tried to take a raw trophy without vet clearance or export paperwork etc out of any African country that I can think of, you'd be breaking umpteen regulations one way or another and also be doing much the same thing when you took them into your country of destination as well.

Hell, the UK (for example) are so paranoid about foot and mouth they even send entire consignments back to country of origin if just one date, signature or stamp is wrong on the paperwork.

Guys,
I understand African trophies work diffirently, My point was that the guy may not know that there is a different way of importing trophies. Even now in Alaska you need to use agents like D&G to ship things on, Has anybody brought capes skulls and meat home (US) from Canada lately?
Steve

Steve and Scott,

I realize this is not acceptable in Zim....much to Zims detriment to be honest. I believe this is standard practice in Namibia however.


tendrams

Actually, I have brought meat into the US from Canada recently, and the same from Alaska into the lower 48.

The Border fellows north of Malta Montana helped fill out the single sheet of paperwork needed to import Canadian wild game. The entire 20 minutes I spent at the border couldn't have been more pleasant.

Bringing wild game into the lower 48 from Alaska is easier than from Canada. As I understand it Alaska is still one of the United States of America an therefore we are able to ship wild game as regular freight, in our checked baggage on the airlines or in our carry-on bag. I have done all of the above this last month.

I've never brought wild game into the US from Mexico, but bringing game from Canada into the US is absolutely painless. I know, I just did it.

FWIW, I appreciated my booking agents assistance for walking me thru the selection of the hunt, the selection of air travel and air travel expediters in Africa, the information of shipping trophies home, and the selection of a taxidermist. My booking agent made life easier for me.

I suppose there will come a time when I no longer need or prefer his assistance, but for the trip planned for next August and I suspect a few beyond that I will use my booking agent. In fact, while my gal and I are in Reno for the convention this January, my booking agent suggested we walk around together and talk to a few safari operators he would recommend.

I'm not sure I see the down side of using all the assistance one could gather in the execution of a trip of safari magnitude.

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:
Steve and Scott,

I realize this is not acceptable in Zim....much to Zims detriment to be honest. I believe this is standard practice in Namibia however.


tendrams

I think you'll find it's the case everywhere in Africa. Even if the game dept etc allowed you to take raw trophies out with you, the health and other regulations would prohibit you taking them into your country of origin. Just some of their concerns would be for foot and mouth and rabies etc.

There's also the issue that the airline that carried untreated/uncertified raw trophies could probably be prosecuted under the same regulations.

Hello Trax:

Let's clear some things up. I do not consider myself a "Bubble Head". My husband and I have been to Africa and Australia several times and have learned through the years just how trophies should be shipped. I don't consider myself an expert, however, I have considerable knowledge of how trophies are handled and how they are shipped from Africa and Australia.

In fact, we went to Australia in July of 2008 and our trophies arrived in New York 2 weeks ago.

My husband and I were concerned about getting our trophies back when we booked the Hunt to Africa through Wendell. We were assured that Dudley Rogers was a top notch outfitter and usually got the trophies back within 12 months.

When we did not receive our trophies and the paperwork continued to get lost, and there was a problem with the trophy fees, we still continued to get e-mails that promised our trophies would be shipped within 4 to 6 weeks.

When our trophies did not arrive and we knew after 28 months that even if our trophies did arrive the hides would be ruined. So yes I am angry at the outfitter and at the booking agent.

I do not feel that it is appropiate to get threatened by the booking agent when I go public about this that we will never see our trophies.

Wendell continued to claim that there would be a free elephant hunt if we did not get our trophies. Which by the way has been taken off the table as we are printing our conflict in the "Hunting Report" This was never about a free elephant hunt, all we asked for was to get a closure on the hunt which was our trophies.

If you are interested in the facts, please send me your private e-mail address and I will e-mail all of the information that I have.

Linda Adams

I think Gator1 has it figured out. Not that all agents are bad, but when you pay 100% up front you assume all the risk. They assume none.

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:
Steve and Scott,

I realize this is not acceptable in Zim....much to Zims detriment to be honest. I believe this is standard practice in Namibia however.


tendrams

hell, you can't even bring biltong purchased in the JNB airport into the US, much less raw hides, horns, skulls, etc.!!! when i came through ATL 3 weeks ago from JNB, the inspector asked if i had ANY food or animal products, including biltong.

Jdollar is correct.

I saw customs seize a cucumber sandwich last month when returning from Zim.

bottom line- if you hunt anywhere in Africa be willing to wait months to years to get your trophies. if your are not the patient type-DON'T GO OR TAKE PICTURES ONLY. DON'T BITCH ABOUT THE WAIT!

Mr. Dollar,
It seems we finally agree on something

jdollar,
So no one should post about any problems on this forum regarding their hunt in Africa? If they take your advice, this would not be a very informative forum.

I have talked to many outfitters from Africa and various agents representing African outfitters. I met them at the NRA National Convention, The Shot Show, SCI Fund raiser events and other sport shows and none of them told me that I should expect problems if I bring my trophies back.

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...75?r=3101085#3101085

It can be done and has been done. If RSA and Zim had their act together so that one could get export permits and vet certs before a clients departure, clearing yourself out of checked baggage should be no problem in the US. Yes, the reality is that both of these countries probably won't get their act together to such a degree...but that's a separate issue.

Still, "bitching" after 28 months on this thread IS NOT BITCHING and certainly does not exhibit a lack of patience, it's a legitimate beef even in the developing world where, yes, things move a bit slower. If the agent isn't around to go to bat for a client during this type of scenario after this amount of time, I have absolutely no idea what they might be good for. Such apathy is bad for the client, bad for business in the long run and, ultimately, bad for wildlife.

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:
https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...75?r=3101085#3101085

It can be done and has been done. If RSA and Zim had their act together so that one could get export permits and vet certs before a clients departure, clearing yourself out of checked baggage should be no problem in the US. Yes, the reality is that both of these countries probably won't get their act together to such a degree...but that's a separate issue.

The rules have changed since 2002 quite a bit. Now the USDA pretty much wants to inspect all raw trophies coming into the US. Also, depending on what you are bringing in some other agencies may be inspecting them. Like baboon has to go thru a CDC inspection.

You have good ideas but the US regulations pretty much prevent you from bringing back your trophies in your checked baggage.

That post was from January 2002 - well before the UK foot and mouth debacle....... since that happened and because of that, things have changed pretty much everywhere. - The Brits esp are a real pain in the ass about importing raw trophies. So much so, that if a client wants us to send their raw trophies to the UK, we ask them to sign a waiver that they accept all responsibility once the trophies leave Africa. We don't hold them to it and we do whatever we can to help, but it helps remind them that the problems are not our fault and we advised them not to do it. Whenever a client tells us he's going to use a UK taxidermist I know we're gonna have problems. - I feel bad about having to do that, but the UK authorities are so bloody minded about accepting raw trophies it's rucking fidiculous.