I'm always confused that it perfectly OK for a poster to post on one side of an arguement and then tell the other side they should not stick their nose in.

I'm very sorry that Linda and her husband have yet to get their trophies. Yes they have contacted the people that represent them. They feel they have not gotten valid answers.
The broker and PH feel they have communicated. Communication only happens when both sides reach the same point of understanding. In an arguement, disagreement etc there is always two sides. Each person will strongly believe their position assuming that the other side fully understood what they said. People will jump to defend one side ro the other. They do this based on previous bias, freindships and positive or negative experiences.

Only the Adams, Wendell and the PH have had the conversations and emails. The "communication" part has fallen short or this thread would not be happening.

Speaking from the side of a one time Africa hunter who saved his $$ to allow he and his wife to go. I would be very frustrated the second or third time I heard 4-6 weeks and nothing happened. Or, that is just the way Africa works. You guys that have gone numerous times have learned to live with the delay. Heck even the first time you might have been upset and have just forgotten it. Who knows. We had a few month delay and we recieved biweekly updates as to the exact status. Wendell may have been doing this as well. Either way the Adam's frustrations show that from their side they weren't getting enough "valid" communication. Communication is a two way street. When it doesn't happen both sides must take some blame. Communication is always easier when it is face to face so you can also read the "nonverbal" communication. Many of us fail to reply with "I don't understand" "I'm confused" so the other party "assumes" we have communicated.

Linda mistakenly took the comments against her as be sexist. They were basically the pack attacking an outsider this would have happened had this same comment come from a male or female. Heck we might say something negative about our friends, family but heaven help a stranger that does.

As too her viewing the comments as threats that pretty much depends on your history. I know my wife would have felt it was a threat because she gets the same type comments from people she must push in her job. I on the other hand would be more likekly to view it as "watch out dealing with a corrupt government" since I spent my years dealing with low level government employees and land owners who had no mineral rights. Our history will shade how we view things.

LINDA!!

I have been in touch with Wendell Reich via PM here, and I now believe that he is doing everything he can to get your trophies to you safe and sound. He could have done a better job (Dudley too) of communicating the problems, but others have PM'ed me and said this (sadly) is not an isolated incident with the government there.
Have faith, and stay in touch with them.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

IMO Linda you lost a lot of credebility when you started that shit about being picked on because you are a woman. Like another posted said they have actually taken it easier on you then they would most men.
I can understand you being pissed that you haven't received your trophies and I hope you get them soon. However accusing them of picking on you because you are a woman is still complete bullcrap and you know it.

quote:

Not sure why they picked me, perhaps they figured out that I actually knew a thing or two about Zim.

Well you sure cleared up that misunderstanding...

Guys, guys, guys.
Just think if you would type that many words to answer a first timer's seemingly weird questions. How many times are you all going to beat a dead horse? He'll never get up. Leave him.
It is amazing how many people side or don't side with someone they know nothing about. You all sound as though you've been to Africa 50+ times, when in reality I would wager once or twice (maybe) is the norm.

Get off the soap boxes and go help a newbie.

Thank you.
Trophyman

quote:

Originally posted by dbltap:

quote:

Not sure why they picked me, perhaps they figured out that I actually knew a thing or two about Zim.

Well you sure cleared up that misunderstanding...

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:

quote:

Originally posted by dbltap:

quote:

Not sure why they picked me, perhaps they figured out that I actually knew a thing or two about Zim.

Well you sure cleared up that misunderstanding...

Simply hilarious! Russ and Ray Atkinson should go into business together! With Russ's knowledge of Zim and Rays knowledge of just about everything they would be unstoppable!

quote:

Originally posted by drummondlindsey:

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:

quote:

Originally posted by dbltap:

quote:

Not sure why they picked me, perhaps they figured out that I actually knew a thing or two about Zim.

Well you sure cleared up that misunderstanding...

Simply hilarious! Russ and Ray should go into business together! With Russ's knowledge of Zim and Rays knowledge of just about everything they would be unstoppable!

RAY WHO? Please Clarify, thanks

For those of you who have not played along...

This Ray;


https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/832100588/m/995101949


Dan

I feel sorry for Linda Adams and her husband. It was not their fault the trophies were delayed or paperwork was lost. When it comes to delaying in shipment of trophies it seems it can only happen Africa. Zimbabwe is now hunters nightmare in getting a hunters or huntress trophies back. Promises were made that trophies would be shipped in no less then 18 months and this particular PH normally did it 12 months according to statements made. It is now 2 1/2 years later if my calculations are correct. That was the first mistake. Wendell bless his heart should have not made this promise. He is now trying his best to correct problem. The second and most serious mistake was losing the original paperwork by Dudley. Dudley is also trying to make up for this mistake. I applaud him for that. He too is trying to do his best. The third mistake is lack of communication. Because of that we now have it on it on the AR forum.

I can understand where Linda is coming from. I have lost trophies that plain disappeared to ones that were poorly taken care of. I am sure we all have had horror stories when it comes to hunting in Africa. Especially if we have hunted there more than once. But, for first time hunters it is most serious and it may be their only trip to africa. My latest is trying to replace a caracal and couple of plains game animals.

I know a lot on this forum have gone to africa and I can see it in their replies. But, it seems the most critical are the ones who have never gone to africa or maybe once or twice as trophy man said.

So, let not be so critical of either side. Linda and her husband are the damaged party here. I am hopeful everything will work out for them.

quote:

Originally posted by KUDUBULL:

quote:

Originally posted by drummondlindsey:

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:

quote:

Originally posted by dbltap:

quote:

Not sure why they picked me, perhaps they figured out that I actually knew a thing or two about Zim.

Well you sure cleared up that misunderstanding...

Simply hilarious! Russ and Ray should go into business together! With Russ's knowledge of Zim and Rays knowledge of just about everything they would be unstoppable!

RAY WHO? Please Clarify, thanks

Clarified in the original post. Sorry bout that Ray

Mr. and Mrs. Adams, as one who has had trophies lost and stolen on the same hunt, I know the anguish and frustration you feel having a portion of your "memories of your hunt", your trophies, being held hostage due to mistake after mistake. None of this is your fault. After working and planning and having a good hunt, you are just caught up in an ever growing ball of crap. Y'all have ever right to be upset. I hope that a quick resolution will be found and your trophies will end up in your possession in good condition.

I am sure everyone here on this forum hopes you have a happy resolution and trophies in hand. I know Wendell and others are trying to help as best they can.

Linda,

re: Shame On Wendell....

thats an interesting way to start a topic, how about first just asking Africa experienced folk here, possible reasons why your trophies may be overly delayed, then decifer if there is any great shame that Wendell should bear?

also Id like to ask, are you one of those bubble headed americans who had never left the homeland before,who have no idea of the reality of variables and differences in other parts of the greater world that can and do effect things, that you are otherwise not generally aware of or acustomed to in USA?
Interesting you said you have worked in the prison system for 19yrs, in all that time its highly likely(99.9%) you found a corrupt system, did you contacted your superiors ...or come to realize you wont change or control the imperfect world we live in...and as a result in all that time and in your own best interest, have possibly just turned a blind eye, collected your pay and gone home.

Go to a part of the world called PNG and try ordering steak and vegetables, if you end up with bacon&eggs youd be having a good day! people who have never been there or other such wild places before, or who are conditioned to the ease of western society, can easily get upset,..people who have spent much time in such places learn to mostly accept and laugh a little.
By the way, if one looks at the current topsyturvy state of the American banking/finacial system, they may realize anything can go wrong anywhere,anytime, in the world, peoples monies have been lost frozen and delayed with no guarantees. Your life is subject to delays,changes,errors and unexpected things as much as anyone elses.
I might add, I once did know a woman who bragged about how she had travelled the world,problem being,it only involved going from one major international airport&limo to Hilton Hotel to another....as a result she was none the wiser, she just lived in the bubble that suited her,conveniently ignoring certain things and believing she knew everything.

this place is almost as good as the political forum, just with a lot less vituperation

Wendell was above board and went the extra mile for on our tz safari in 'o7 and imo he is doing the same thing for these thick headed folks I don't know why they cannot understand? Have you tried to talk politics w/ anyone recently? Some people have NO common sense at all! Dr.C

quote:

Originally posted by Linda Adams:
Well Boys, thanks for ripping on me because I am a woman, I can tell that this is a man's forum and was hesitant to post.

However, I have worked inside of a prison for 19 years and around criminals that a murders and rapist and guess what they are nice people to.

Why don't you try walking in my shoes and what if it had been your wife's first African animal? Would you feel the same way?

Wow Linda, cheap shot & I didn't see anyone playing the gender card but you. Hunting Africa is a crap shoot, even w/ a great outfitter. Hunting Zim, well, you are lucky if you get trophies IMO.
I hunted Moz. 4yrs ago. My stuff is just now being sent. Yes, several things got messed up & I didn't stay on top of it as I should nore did I press as hard as I should have, but it's getting sorted out & I have since been across the pond again. I assume a certain amount of incompetence from the African end of things, crap happens. As long as Wendell is in touch & trying to work things out, let it play out & see what happens before you go bashing a guys rep. Your story is not the first or last time something went badly wrong before, during or after a safari. I'm sure yu are a nice person, but you are whining I'm afraid & it isn't flattering. FWIW, I've never hunted or booked w/ Wendell, but heard good things aobut his operation. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt since he responded to you here. Cheers.

It has never been a booking agents responsibility to secure trophy shipment. EVER.

The idea that non-shipment from Zimbabwe is somehow an American booking agents fault is beyond absurd.

I have been to Africa 14 times. I have had issues on trophy shipment caused by the government more than once. It happens. Zim in particular doesn't have the money.

With her attitude, I would doubt many are going to help her. I wouldn't. Some people just Can't Understand Normal Thinking.

By the way, I do not know any of the parties involved.

I'm not going to attempt to take any sides here as far as directly relating to the problems Linda has had. It's all been covered. So that you know where I'm coming from, I have used Wendell before and I would work with him again and I've been to Africa a couple of times. I also find Linda's gender based comments completely out of bounds.

Having said that, I have seen a troubling undercurrent here (and on other threads) of the attitude of "Caveat emptor", let the buyer beware. Sure we should all do our research well and have realistic expectations of the problems that can and probably will occur on an African safari. The same goes for any outfitted hunt. But I have seen it said here that everything about Africa is a "crap shoot", "S--- happens", and the if anyone expects to get their trophies from Zimbabwe in a reasonable timeframe (or at all), then they are a "bubbleheaded American" or something similar. According to many posts here, after paying what amounts to a huge amount of your annual income to hunt in Africa, if you act the least bit surprised at all that anything or everything went wrong with your hunt, then you're an ignorant newbie. Well, maybe all that's true, but I have been to a lot of outfitter shows, checked out a lot of websites and talked to a lot of booking agents and I don't ever remember one of them telling me that Africa was a "crap shoot" or that you should be happy if you ever get your trophies back at all.

So let's have a little reserved sympathy for a women who probably based her hopes on what she had been told by an industry that is obviously out to sell hunts, as they should be. And lets not all assume that everyone follows AR the way we do and are aware of all the pitfalls that an African safari can have. Most of what you read here you will not hear in a booth at Reno.

What Larry said...running around splashing your self with gasoline and striking kitchen matches doesn't solve a damn thing...Jeff

I think that Dudley Rodgers has an obligation to give some financial remuneration to Linda. After all, it's his fault.

I would like to see the industry system changed so that the hunter puts the trophy fees in escrow and the outfitter/booking agent doesn't get paid the final installment until after the trophies shipped.

Yeah, I know "we can't control Zimbabwe." But if this were the system, and booking agents would stop sending customers to countries where they didn't exercise a little speed, you can bet those countries would get on the ball.

I bet that neither the outfitter nor the booking agent told Linda what could and in fact did happen before she paid her money. I think they owe that to clients.

Mrs. Adams-

Trust me, the problem will be fixed. Just hang in there.
I do know Wendell and I can tell you that if he says Dudley is AOK and that Dudley will get your trophies to you or you will receive another satisfactory resolution, then that is what will happen.

John

quote:

But if this were the system, and booking agents would stop sending customers to countries where they didn't exercise a little speed, you can bet those countries would get on the ball.

Ahh yes the famous "Western Pressure" approach to problems in Africa. It has a long and remarkable history of, uhhh, well not very much, but thanks for playing.

quote:

Originally posted by G L Krause:
I'm not going to attempt to take any sides here as far as directly relating to the problems Linda has had. It's all been covered. So that you know where I'm coming from, I have used Wendell before and I would work with him again and I've been to Africa a couple of times. I also find Linda's gender based comments completely out of bounds.

Having said that, I have seen a troubling undercurrent here (and on other threads) of the attitude of "Caveat emptor", let the buyer beware. Sure we should all do our research well and have realistic expectations of the problems that can and probably will occur on an African safari. The same goes for any outfitted hunt. But I have seen it said here that everything about Africa is a "crap shoot", "S--- happens", and the if anyone expects to get their trophies from Zimbabwe in a reasonable timeframe (or at all), then they are a "bubbleheaded American" or something similar. According to many posts here, after paying what amounts to a huge amount of your annual income to hunt in Africa, if you act the least bit surprised at all that anything or everything went wrong with your hunt, then you're an ignorant newbie. Well, maybe all that's true, but I have been to a lot of outfitter shows, checked out a lot of websites and talked to a lot of booking agents and I don't ever remember one of them telling me that Africa was a "crap shoot" or that you should be happy if you ever get your trophies back at all.

So let's have a little reserved sympathy for a women who probably based her hopes on what she had been told by an industry that is obviously out to sell hunts, as they should be. And lets not all assume that everyone follows AR the way we do and are aware of all the pitfalls that an African safari can have. Most of what you read here you will not hear in a booth at Reno.

You seem to have taken some of those comments out of context. My point is that too many Americans travel w/ the "I am paying for this so it should be exactly the way I want it to be" attitude. Well, reallity, it isn't & there will be little that can be done but continue to pound away at the problem. Coming onto a forum & whinning about it & name calling isn't going to get anything solved. If you have never had a negative exp. traveling to & from Africa, then you are lucky. My problems have been minimal but problems none the same. My point again, one should anticipate problems & try to minimze them. Yes, reduce your expectations & make coningent plans.

I don't know about "Western Pressure" but I will definitely have to factor in the possiblity of not getting the trophies exported into the choice of a location to hunt.

Frostbit-

quote:

but I will definitely have to factor in the possiblity of not getting the trophies exported into the choice of a location to hunt.

In hunting Africa you are venturing, armed, to a 3rd world country and (hopefully!) exporting a highly regulated product that a significant percentage of the people in your home country feel is contributing to the "extinction" of all wild animals in Africa. What could possibly go wrong???

I think the saying is TFA
That's F***ing Africa
When booking a hunt like this, you have to accept the fact that:
It may be cancelled due to political unrest
The whole damned place may burn up
Your airline might lose your luggage or you
I could go on but you get the point. If you got there and back in one piece consider yourself fortunate and while waiting for the trophies to ship (and then waiting another year on taxidermy) is frustrating (infuriating?), stuff happens!

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:
I think the saying is TFA
That's F***ing Africa
When booking a hunt like this, you have to accept the fact that:
It may be cancelled due to political unrest
The whole damned place may burn up
Your airline might lose your luggage or you
I could go on but you get the point. If you got there and back in one piece consider yourself fortunate and while waiting for the trophies to ship (and then waiting another year on taxidermy) is frustrating (infuriating?), stuff happens!

I see all the time how long it takes for people's trophies to arrive. My outfitter told me mine would be delivered in eight months or the taxidermy would be free.
They arrived 5 days early. 7 months and 25 days. They were done right and packed perfectly. Why can't they all be like my guy?

Just wondering.
Trophyman

quote:

Originally posted by Trophyman:

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:
I think the saying is TFA
That's F***ing Africa
When booking a hunt like this, you have to accept the fact that:
It may be cancelled due to political unrest
The whole damned place may burn up
Your airline might lose your luggage or you
I could go on but you get the point. If you got there and back in one piece consider yourself fortunate and while waiting for the trophies to ship (and then waiting another year on taxidermy) is frustrating (infuriating?), stuff happens!

I see all the time how long it takes for people's trophies to arrive. My outfitter told me mine would be delivered in eight months or the taxidermy would be free.
They arrived 5 days early. 7 months and 25 days. They were done right and packed perfectly. Why can't they all be like my guy?

Just wondering.
Trophyman

That's great, far better than average. What country?

Wendell is you head big enough now

Like it or not, shit happens in Africa.

About 2 weeks ago, I was in Zim. At 3:45 in the morning on the second day of the hunt,I was woken up to be advised that the government canceled the balance of my hunt.

Going to Africa isn't like going to the local mall. If you expect things to be the same over there as they are over here, you are in for a rude awakening.

Regardless, blaming an American booking agent is ridiculous. Blame the government, fine. Blame the outfitter, perhaps. But the booking agent, no way in hell. It shows total ignorance of this business.

If you can't deal with things like this, don't go.

quote:

Originally posted by Trophyman:

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:
I think the saying is TFA
That's F***ing Africa
When booking a hunt like this, you have to accept the fact that:
It may be cancelled due to political unrest
The whole damned place may burn up
Your airline might lose your luggage or you
I could go on but you get the point. If you got there and back in one piece consider yourself fortunate and while waiting for the trophies to ship (and then waiting another year on taxidermy) is frustrating (infuriating?), stuff happens!

I see all the time how long it takes for people's trophies to arrive. My outfitter told me mine would be delivered in eight months or the taxidermy would be free.
They arrived 5 days early. 7 months and 25 days. They were done right and packed perfectly. Why can't they all be like my guy?

Just wondering.
Trophyman

You're kidding me right? You must be the total optimist. You were very lucky my friend. Note, some like to have the taxi done here. Now you've introduced another huge variable to getting your stuff. It can't be like your experience because it isn't your experience. It's like asking why your wife can't be like the other guys wife or why your kids aren't like the other guys kids, because they just aren't. Expect the worst & hope for ht ebest, then you'll never be completely dissapointed.

I would be more interested to know from which country "Trophyman"'s mounts are from....

Africa can be a big place

There in lies the rub...

One brush and one story never paints the full picture.....


I've only exchanged Emails,about 3,with Mr. Reich...

They concerned Buff hunts and Trophy shipment times vs. price for the hunt...Looking at Namibia/Zambia/Zim....

He was very realistic in both hunt, shipping costs, and delivery times....Including possible prattfalls of Zimbabwe...He stressed that it wasn't going to be like PG in Namibia/SA....

I recieved 20 various PG trophies from Namibia last December in, no shit, 62 days from when I left...

The stars and planets aligned....may never happen again....

But I could say I received my trophies from Africa...Is it the same????


Dan

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Like it or not, shit happens in Africa.

About 2 weeks ago, I was in Zim. At 3:45 in the morning on the second day of the hunt,I was woken up to be advised that the government canceled the balance of my hunt.

Going to Africa isn't like going to the local mall. If you expect things to be the same over there as they are over here, you are in for a rude awakening.

Regardless, blaming an American booking agent is ridiculous. Blame the government, fine. Blame the outfitter, perhaps. But the booking agent, no way in hell. It shows total ignorance of this business.

If you can't deal with things like this, don't go.

What excuse did the Gov't have for cancellation of your safari? Curious from standpoint that I am close to scheduling to go to Zim again.

Took 2 years to get my ele ivory and buff back from Zim and I hunted with Dudley...

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by woodmanDan:
They concerned Buff hunts and Trophy shipment times vs. price for the hunt...Looking at Namibia/Zambia/Zim....
Dan

Dan,

If you're interested in Zambia and have any questions about what hunting there is like PM me, I just returned from there. My trophies were supposed to be shipped out this week.

All,

i and two others in our party booked a hunt with Wendell in 2004. We had a great hunt on the Zambezi. Wendell was spot on regarding the trophy quality and the camp staff and PHs were first rate.
It took two plus years for our trophies to get to the states. in late 2007 all the taxidermy was completed . during the waiting process for the trophies to be shipped to the states Wendell did everything he could to help speed the process. It seemed like a long time but we had heard similar stories so we didnt panic!
When hunting Africa there is inherent risk in many areas. getting tophies home is just one of them. I believe Wendell to be a good guy and outfitter.

Be nice , be patient , be positive and the trophies will come home.

Wendell has done good by us.

Regards,


LUX

quote:

Go to a part of the world called PNG and try ordering steak and vegetables, if you end up with bacon&eggs youd be having a good day!

Man, you have that right. Asked the cook for some peanut butter sandwiches with jelly "on the side" and that's what we got. Exactly. Sandwiches with jelly on the sides of them.

They speak somewhere near 47% of all the world's languages in that small country, so things get lost in translation quite often.

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:

quote:

Originally posted by Trophyman:

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:
I think the saying is TFA
That's F***ing Africa
When booking a hunt like this, you have to accept the fact that:
It may be cancelled due to political unrest
The whole damned place may burn up
Your airline might lose your luggage or you
I could go on but you get the point. If you got there and back in one piece consider yourself fortunate and while waiting for the trophies to ship (and then waiting another year on taxidermy) is frustrating (infuriating?), stuff happens!

I see all the time how long it takes for people's trophies to arrive. My outfitter told me mine would be delivered in eight months or the taxidermy would be free.
They arrived 5 days early. 7 months and 25 days. They were done right and packed perfectly. Why can't they all be like my guy?

Just wondering.
Trophyman

You're kidding me right? You must be the total optimist. You were very lucky my friend. Note, some like to have the taxi done here. Now you've introduced another huge variable to getting your stuff. It can't be like your experience because it isn't your experience. It's like asking why your wife can't be like the other guys wife or why your kids aren't like the other guys kids, because they just aren't. Expect the worst & hope for ht ebest, then you'll never be completely dissapointed.

I hunted with Neil Barnard of NB Safaris and he uses African Expressions Taxidermy. Taxidermist is in Joberg. NB Safaris is in the Limpopo region.
I am an optimist-- but careful. Don't want anybody else's wife or kids. Happy with mine.
7 Months 25 days from shot to delivery at my door. Jealous?

Trophyman.

Nope, jelousy is for those w/o accomplishments or those lacking self esteem. Just a realist that's been there, & bought the t-shirt. Point, your exp. are your own & no one elses. Looking at your own micro situation reveals little of the rest of the world. Revel in your good fortune today, next time may be diff.